FUE Experience w/Dr. Diep MHTA Clinic

[jimcraig152]

Sorry @rocknrollman. We got hoodwinked. You are yet another Dr. Diep survivor like I am and one of many before us. The only good we can do is to document this stuff so that those that follow don't befall the same fate. Prep your legal resources now as you wait for that year to pass. Have them ready for if and when you need to act. Those multi-hair grafts in your hairline won't resolve themselves no matter how long you wait.

Edited October 25, 2020 by jimcraig152

[yalla8]

This is shocking. Can anyone explain why this doctor is still "recommended" by this forum if these allegations are true?

[jimcraig152]

Let me give Dr. Diep credit where he is due some:

1. He designs excellent places frontal hairlines well, taking into account facial proportions.
2. He produces high yield in most cases

When ever you have hair where once you were bald, you are going to look better. Now, no doubt I am going to look good at the end of this. But the devil is in the details. It is absolutely indefensible that in 2020 baby doll grafts are still being implanted in a patient's scalp (@rocknrollman's example here and @Tentpole91's example here). I may have dodged that bullet (remains to be seen as I catch up), but man I feel terrible for you guys.

End of Week 14 Update:

I see less and less scalp these days. The transplanted area is still sparse. But it is still very early (3 months and 1 week). I took some pics outdoors to demonstrate how things look:

Outdoors under shade:

Facing the mid-day Sun moments later:

The typical shot I normally take from indoors:

And now this high resolution shot focused on the hairline (cropped but not resized). The zig zags are starting to sprout (wipes sweat from brow, while expressing a longggggg sigh of relief) and that is good news because the hairline graft placement is very linear. Without those zags........

Also, at this point redness in the recipient area appears to be a thing of the past. Even after applying minoxidil, I don't see redness. My scalp is more pale than my forehead and that is how it should be.

 

See the sparseness between the rows now that the hair is longer?

You can see where those excisions went really high to the right of the vertex. More scalp shows there than it should. The band of over extracted hairs is still visble 2 weeks after I cut that area down to a zero guard.

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by jimcraig152

[mohamedhossen]

incredible thread 
thank you very much for your weekly updates and all your efforts 
 

[anotherhairlosssufferer]

This honestly looks pretty good given that it's only 3 been months. Could be that finasteride is playing a role too. Exited to see where you'll be in 3-6 months.

However, you are describing your experience as way too harsh in my opinion. Could be that Dr. Diep could have done a better job in certain aspects, and I don't know enough to claim one way or the other but you haven't gotten the final result yet and you're making bold claims that he butchered you for good.

Critique is good and thank you for this thread but I scheduled a surgery for next year and reading through this I can't tell if I made a mistake or not. The tone of it makes me think maybe I did but reading the details makes me think that you just have a different opinion on how to go about stuff. Wish there was a more objective take.

[ShadowMoon]

1 hour ago, anotherhairlosssufferer said:

This honestly looks pretty good given that it's only 3 been months. Could be that finasteride is playing a role too. Exited to see where you'll be in 3-6 months.

However, you are describing your experience as way too harsh in my opinion. Could be that Dr. Diep could have done a better job in certain aspects, and I don't know enough to claim one way or the other but you haven't gotten the final result yet and you're making bold claims that he butchered you for good.

Critique is good and thank you for this thread but I scheduled a surgery for next year and reading through this I can't tell if I made a mistake or not. The tone of it makes me think maybe I did but reading the details makes me think that you just have a different opinion on how to go about stuff. Wish there was a more objective take.

Here is an objective take:

Dr. Diep has poor donor management technique. He uses 1mm punches, which is no longer considered best practice by any top clinic in the world. With advancements in technique and surgical expertise, 0.8mm punches provide adequate clearance of the follicle in the vast majority of patients, which minimizes donor harm and scarring. Diep universally uses 1mm punches on all his patients.

By his own words, specifically in Baldlivesmatter's post, he says he intentionally harvests one side of the donor area before going to the other side. Look at every single FUE case of H&W, Konior, Shapiro, Lupanzula, Cooley, etc. and you their donors are nowhere near as mangled as Diep. Not only do they use smaller punches with better results, they also utilize the entire donor area to prevent overharvesting. 

Dr. Diep utilizes a corn-row technique, which he has defended several times as being the best method for growth, using the metaphor of farm crop. In my entire life, I have never seen hair grow in straight lines, so why the hell would you implant them in that way if you are trying for a natural appearance? Not only that, farmers do not plant in rows for growth - they do it so they can utilize farm equipment which needs room to fit between the crops.

Dr. Diep's FUT incisions and scars are ridiculously bad. Look up every single FUT case on this site, it's night and day difference between any other affiliated surgeon.

Dr. Diep does two cases a day, and has both extractions and incisions done before lunch so his techs can do the rest. This is not done by any other top clinic in America or any top clinic in Europe that I have heard of. If anyone has any examples, let me know. Imagine your surgeon rushing through your procedure to get to the next one. My own procedure was from 0630-1700. It was a relatively low graft case. He is not a slow surgeon. I've heard of cases where Dr. Konior was operating until 11PM. He has decades of experience. Why the hell is Diep trying to get his cases done so fast?

Dr. Diep has several cases of using doubles and triples in hairlines and temple points. I have not seen any other top clinic make this mistake. It is unacceptable.

Dr. Diep makes his patients sign a form after payment but prior to operation that requires arbitration instead of litigation. In one case, a user here by the name of @Specific-violinist60 posted a case where he had 900 grafts implanted but over 1300 holes in the back of his head. The post has since been archived. I spoke to the moderator of this site on another thread where he said he would look into the archived post to verify for himself that there were 1300 holes and only 900 grafts implanted, as proven by pictures, but he never responded. I pm'd him a couple weeks later, and he didn't respond again. You can take of that what you will, but to me it is very telling.

Bottom line is, the end does not justify the means. That is @jimcraig152's point in this thread. You cannot simply judge the end result. Donor management is equally if not more important. Diep half-asses his extraction technique by minimizing the spread over the back of the head, which saves him time. His incisions are done in rows for the sake of expediency. The right temple of all his patients is worse looking than the left side, because he starts on the left and moves to the right. When he does full crown work, it is always done in rows. 

All surgeons have at least one unhappy patient. It is naïve to consider otherwise. The problem is, Diep had by my count five unhappy patients post on this site in the last year. I haven't seen a single completely satisfied patient post on this site that had their procedure in the last year. I can use objective standards to show how his results are at the very least unnatural. All of his caucasian patients with straight hair have hairlines that look like a ken doll if you zoom in. I posted all of them within the last three years on another thread, so you can see for yourself.

 

 

 

 

[HTHope]

57 minutes ago, ShadowMoon said:

Here is an objective take:

Dr. Diep has poor donor management technique. He uses 1mm punches, which is no longer considered best practice by any top clinic in the world. With advancements in technique and surgical expertise, 0.8mm punches provide adequate clearance of the follicle in the vast majority of patients, which minimizes donor harm and scarring. Diep universally uses 1mm punches on all his patients.

By his own words, specifically in Baldlivesmatter's post, he says he intentionally harvests one side of the donor area before going to the other side. Look at every single FUE case of H&W, Konior, Shapiro, Lupanzula, Cooley, etc. and you their donors are nowhere near as mangled as Diep. Not only do they use smaller punches with better results, they also utilize the entire donor area to prevent overharvesting. 

Dr. Diep utilizes a corn-row technique, which he has defended several times as being the best method for growth, using the metaphor of farm crop. In my entire life, I have never seen hair grow in straight lines, so why the hell would you implant them in that way if you are trying for a natural appearance? Not only that, farmers do not plant in rows for growth - they do it so they can utilize farm equipment which needs room to fit between the crops.

Dr. Diep's FUT incisions and scars are ridiculously bad. Look up every single FUT case on this site, it's night and day difference between any other affiliated surgeon.

Dr. Diep does two cases a day, and has both extractions and incisions done before lunch so his techs can do the rest. This is not done by any other top clinic in America or any top clinic in Europe that I have heard of. If anyone has any examples, let me know. Imagine your surgeon rushing through your procedure to get to the next one. My own procedure was from 0630-1700. It was a relatively low graft case. He is not a slow surgeon. I've heard of cases where Dr. Konior was operating until 11PM. He has decades of experience. Why the hell is Diep trying to get his cases done so fast?

Dr. Diep has several cases of using doubles and triples in hairlines and temple points. I have not seen any other top clinic make this mistake. It is unacceptable.

Dr. Diep makes his patients sign a form after payment but prior to operation that requires arbitration instead of litigation. In one case, a user here by the name of @Specific-violinist60 posted a case where he had 900 grafts implanted but over 1300 holes in the back of his head. The post has since been archived. I spoke to the moderator of this site on another thread where he said he would look into the archived post to verify for himself that there were 1300 holes and only 900 grafts implanted, as proven by pictures, but he never responded. I pm'd him a couple weeks later, and he didn't respond again. You can take of that what you will, but to me it is very telling.

Bottom line is, the end does not justify the means. That is @jimcraig152's point in this thread. You cannot simply judge the end result. Donor management is equally if not more important. Diep half-asses his extraction technique by minimizing the spread over the back of the head, which saves him time. His incisions are done in rows for the sake of expediency. The right temple of all his patients is worse looking than the left side, because he starts on the left and moves to the right. When he does full crown work, it is always done in rows. 

All surgeons have at least one unhappy patient. It is naïve to consider otherwise. The problem is, Diep had by my count five unhappy patients post on this site in the last year. I haven't seen a single completely satisfied patient post on this site that had their procedure in the last year. I can use objective standards to show how his results are at the very least unnatural. All of his caucasian patients with straight hair have hairlines that look like a ken doll if you zoom in. I posted all of them within the last three years on another thread, so you can see for yourself.

 

 

 

 

Great writeup 

[jimcraig152]

@anotherhairlosssufferer, please answer these questions so I can properly respond to you.

• What NW scale are you?
• Who did you book your surgery with?
• How many grafts have been estimated for you?
• FUT or FUE?
• How old are you?
• What is the price per unit for your procedure?

I noticed your user ID, so my response shall be as a brother who has been dealt similarly bad cards.

Edited November 1, 2020 by jimcraig152

[anotherhairlosssufferer]

EDIT: I am a Caucasian male which seems very important for hairline design!

22 hours ago, ShadowMoon said:

Dr. Diep has poor donor management technique. He uses 1mm punches, which is no longer considered best practice by any top clinic in the world. 

In our conversation he said that bigger punches secure higher survival rate, I can't remember if he said he would use 1mm but that's how he justified it (and he explained why - there is a higher risk of cutting the root off with smaller punches). To me it made sense, but true I don't want to butcher my donor area. As for the corn rows - @Tentpole91had a pretty bad case here and I'd like to avoid that.

However the end results and the yields seem impressive for Dr. Diep.

Not sure how to process this overall, who has a comparable yield and higher success rate/better donor? I considered Parsa Mohebi but Dr. Diep's results seem better.

@jimcraig152 answers below:

• What NW scale are you?

Looks like I am heading towards NW5 A, so vertex is not affected but the top looks like it's going further than NW4. Currently though I would cover the frontal third.

• Who did you book your surgery with?

Dr. Diep

• How many grafts have been estimated for you?

He said 2300

• FUT or FUE?

FUE

• How old are you?

35

• What is the price per unit for your procedure?

19k I guess?

 

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by anotherhairlosssufferer

[Micky597]

Hey Jim, 

As you know, I've had a surgery 6 weeks ago with Dr. John Diep. I've been keeping a close eye on your thread. Seems there's a lot of unsatisfied patients. Seeing all these people coming forward, I can't help feeling a little depressed and worried. However, I do think you dodged a bullet. The difference between your second month and your third month is crazy.  I really hope I'll be in similar position. The ugly duckling phase is real. 

Also, what do you guys think of John Diep's "corn-row technique" when it pertains to curly hair?

[ShadowMoon]

43 minutes ago, Micky597 said:

Hey Jim, 

As you know, I've had a surgery 6 weeks ago with Dr. John Diep. I've been keeping a close eye on your thread. Seems there's a lot of unsatisfied patients. Seeing all these people coming forward, I can't help feeling a little depressed and worried. However, I do think you dodged a bullet. The difference between your second month and your third month is crazy.  I really hope I'll be in similar position. The ugly duckling phase is real. 

Also, what do you guys think of John Diep's "corn-row technique" when it pertains to curly hair?

Curly hair doesn't seem to have the same issues. Diep's afro results are fantastic. This is likely because he uses 1mm punches, which gives a huge margin of error and doesn't require as much time as if you were using 0.8mm punches. Downside is it scars your donor area up pretty good. Even top clinics sometimes resort to using larger punch sizes for afro hair so that often can't be avoided, not the case if you have straight hair. 

[ShadowMoon]

55 minutes ago, anotherhairlosssufferer said:

In our conversation he said that bigger punches secure higher survival rate, I can't remember if he said he would use 1mm but that's how he justified it (and he explained why - there is a higher risk of cutting the root off with smaller punches). To me it made sense, but true I don't want to butcher my donor area. As for the corn rows - @Tentpole91had a pretty bad case here and I'd like to avoid that.

Diep said himself in one of these threads his survival rates are between 5-15%. This is actually less than any other top clinic, which say no more than 5%. Keep in mind, there's no real way to tell an exact number. What responsible surgeons do is take their time while doing extractions to minimize transection rate. I've listened to several talks on this subject from top surgeons and there are many examples of FUE cases done by every other affiliated surgeon on this site. They all use 0.8mm punches for the vast majority of their patients and their survival rates are comparable to Diep's who seems to exclusively use 1mm punches. I would wager Dr. Konior has a much higher survival rate and lower transection rate than Diep and he uses as small a punch as he can get away with to save the donor area from unnecessary scarring.

At some point as a responsible doctor and surgeon, you need to look around and see what all of your colleagues are doing. He stands alone in his extraction and incision techniques and his results are not any better, and oftentimes worse, than H&W, Konior, Cooley, etc. He may achieve adequate density in most cases, but his donor areas are much worse off and he doesn't achieve a natural appearance much of the time.

 

[jimcraig152]

1 hour ago, Micky597 said:

Hey Jim, 

As you know, I've had a surgery 6 weeks ago with Dr. John Diep. I've been keeping a close eye on your thread. Seems there's a lot of unsatisfied patients. Seeing all these people coming forward, I can't help feeling a little depressed and worried. However, I do think you dodged a bullet. The difference between your second month and your third month is crazy.  I really hope I'll be in similar position. The ugly duckling phase is real. 

Also, what do you guys think of John Diep's "corn-row technique" when it pertains to curly hair?

Hey @Micky597,

For afro hair and resulting hairstyles, Dr. Diep's methods seem to lend towards success.

1. The row placement is diffused by the random growth of curly afro hair. I would imagine you would only have an issue if you were to wear a zero fade hairstyle (like how Eddie Murphy wears his hair in this video). But being you are a FUT patient, it is not likely you will ever do that.
2. The straight line approach Dr. Diep uses to place hairlines actually lends perfectly for afro hairstyles and will save your barber some time in the future

I mentioned in my first response on your thread that your procedure is some of the better work that Dr. Diep has done in some time. The reason I said that is because he placed the rows tightly together all throughout your recipient area. Now would you have benefited from natural graft placement? I think so. But how much so? Probably only in those instances where you would wear a zero fade hair style. And for psychological reasons to combat feelings of uneasiness after reading my postings :). I think you'll be fine.

 

[jimcraig152]

@anotherhairlosssufferer, my response to you is as a brother suffering from hair loss. I'd like keep this as an open dialogue over the next post or two. So feel free to respond and I will too.

Firstly, I think your struggle with overall processing of what you are seeing in these real patient testimonies in this forum is being weighed down by the following factors:

1. The $1000 deposit you've already paid to keep your scheduled surgery appointment and the fear of losing that substantial amount of money
2. The convenience of geography. I am guessing you must live in close proximity to MHTA or can crash at someone's house in the area. Or you might be out of the area and have already made travel plans and don't want to go through the inconvenience of cancelling and losing out on further monetary investment
3. The research you've put into the decision already; the time you've already spent. You just don't want to lose anymore as you've suffered long enough
4. The Youtube videos you've seen

Am I right?

For the moment, let go of these things so you can start fresh with the critical decisions you have to make. With all 4 of the bullets above, wipe them clean off your slate, if only for a moment.

1. Imagine that $1000 deposit can be refunded to you at any time. Do it.
2. Imagine there is another choice surgeon you don't have to travel far to. Do it.
3. Imagine that you know nothing about surgical hair restoration and are just beginning your own musings into it and have not lost any personal investment of time into it. Do it.
4. Toss out any results you've seen from Youtube. Do it.

Now that you've done that, click on @rocknrollman's user ID above. He mentions he is a rock star in one of his postings. An 'effen ROCK STAR of all things! Now what would it take to make a rock star upset? The baby doll plugs that will be on prominent display as he is on stage. The same ones that are implanted into @Tentpole91 where his latest posts expresses he is just waiting out completion of the 12 month recovery to get repairs from a different surgeon. Then look at @Dadda response in that thread where he expresses he is in the same boat. Take a look at this patient's thread then ask yourself if what you see is natural. Take a look at @baldlivesmatter thread. While his transplanted hair results look great because has thick hair follicles. But then click to the end of the thread where he is pondering what he options he has to combat the fact that his extractions weren't spread out throughout his donor region. He paid extra dollars for FUE (like you will) so he could have less visible scarring and so he could have the ability to wear shorter hair styles. Has he really achieved that?

Now let's look at the work of other surgeons.

Take a look at this patient's results after 8300 FUE grafts and tell me if you think his donor looks worse off than my 2332 FUE extractions or baldlivesmatters'. Take a look at his recipient area and tell me which surgeon produced the most natural result. 8300 FUE units over 3 procedures. I would say this surgeon produced yield that surpasses anything you've seen with Dr. Diep, yeah? Now look at this patient's 2500 graft procedure. Which donor do you feel is better handled. Which surgical grafting technique appears more nature-made to you? Would you be astonished if I told you that both these patients paid ~$2.50 per unit + a trip to Mexico. If you do the math, does that put the expense at or below the $19K MHTA estimated for you? Here is another 2500 graft procedure. Ask the same questions. I picked 2500 units as that is close the estimate for your procedure and for my final count. But let's look at a larger procedure. Here is a 2800 graft procedure. Whose donor is more worse for wear? Who is going to be in a better position with their donor supply to treat progression as we age?

Getting back to those 4 points:

1. The common thread about myself and those other Diep patients isn't that we've had work done with MHTA. That is the past. The commonality is in our futures. We are all likely to have further HT surgery, not to treat progression, but for repair. So think of that $1000 deposit as money you might save if you can avoid a repair.
2. Don't be afraid to travel. You don't get do overs. Make the choice that achieves the best possible outcome for you.
3. Don't worry about the time you've spent already. It has already past. Put the time you have now to the best possible use as the time will pass anyway.
4. As for the Youtube videos, Dr. Diep's most passionate supporter will tell you this: "They are all cherry picked. No Dr. is going to put out their bad work."

So if you've digested the above, know that you have a good 3 months or so before there is no looking back. If you do end up choosing Dr. Diep, let's make sure you get what you want. I and the rest of the fellas commenting in this thread are your brothers in the same struggle. We have no skin in the game and are just trying to help each other out. I don't mind keeping the dialog open in my thread as long as it helps someone; you.

Lastly, I never said Dr. Diep butchered me. Not once. And if you think I am being xenophobic in my criticisms of his work, know that Dr. Diep and I are both Vietnamese. And it is because we are both of Viet-descent, I expect better from him as it is ingrained into our culture.

[yalla8]

16 hours ago, anotherhairlosssufferer said:

EDIT: I am a Caucasian male which seems very important for hairline design!

In our conversation he said that bigger punches secure higher survival rate, I can't remember if he said he would use 1mm but that's how he justified it (and he explained why - there is a higher risk of cutting the root off with smaller punches). To me it made sense, but true I don't want to butcher my donor area. As for the corn rows - @Tentpole91had a pretty bad case here and I'd like to avoid that.

However the end results and the yields seem impressive for Dr. Diep.

Not sure how to process this overall, who has a comparable yield and higher success rate/better donor? I considered Parsa Mohebi but Dr. Diep's results seem better.

@jimcraig152 answers below:

• What NW scale are you?

Looks like I am heading towards NW5 A, so vertex is not affected but the top looks like it's going further than NW4. Currently though I would cover the frontal third.

• Who did you book your surgery with?

Dr. Diep

• How many grafts have been estimated for you?

He said 2300

• FUT or FUE?

FUE

• How old are you?

35

• What is the price per unit for your procedure?

19k I guess?

 

 

Get out of this! Even if it means losing your deposit, your head of hair will be worth the cost. I have no dog in the fight but would hate to see another man suffer at the hands of this doc!

[jimcraig152]

I got a PM from elsewhere remarking about my early growth. While I think I am ahead of the curve by a bit, I don't think it is mutant-Wolverine-healing-factor aided recovery by any means. But that person asked if I got the A-Cell or Amniofill treatment options ($600 each). Obviously, he must be a recent MHTA patient too and must have bought into those treatments. I told him I would answer in my thread.

But before I answer that, let me say that during the 8 months between my preconsultation visit and the actual date of my surgery, the Amniofill and A-Cell options and explanations for what they are were never presented to me, not once. The first time I ever heard about them was when I was reading the final agreement I had to sign on the day of the procedure. I left them blank because i had no idea what they were. Then Dr. Diep explained to me that it "Can help me recover faster." I suppose if the world had been normal, the idea of faster recovery would be a good selling point as a patient would have to be presentable at work and such.

My knowledge on the subject of surgical hair restoration was much more limited then, even just 3 months ago. But whatever research I had done up until then, never once had I heard of Amniofill or A-Cell at all, let alone wide use of those treatments in surgical hair restoration. Plus I knew the recovery period would take a full year. Factor in that had I opted in for those treatments, they would have been agreed to in the same document where I just signed an agreement that hair restoration is not guaranteed for success. And given that "faster" is a relative term, what value is there in a treatment that costs $600 each when measured on a scale of recovery that takes 12-to-18 months? What is faster? Two weeks, a month when balanced on the scale of at least 365 days?

In any case, the decision was easy for me. It was aided by knowing I was going to be in quarantine for the foreseeable future anyway. I didn't see the value in those treatments given the time scale and macro circumstances. Make of it what you will that these options were presented last minute. But I think I made the right decision by passing on them.

Edited November 3, 2020 by jimcraig152

[Melvin- Admin]

4 hours ago, yalla8 said:

Get out of this! Even if it means losing your deposit, your head of hair will be worth the cost. I have no dog in the fight but would hate to see another man suffer at the hands of this doc!

This post has been reported by a longtime member, I’ve stayed away from this thread because the Diep witch hunters automatically scream bias if I even respond, but others in the community are starting to take notice. It’s beginning to be ridiculous, every post is about Diep. Diep has over a dozen happy patients on this forum with excellent results, including me. 

I will not direct anyone to abort surgery without first talking to BOTH unhappy and happy patients. It’s vital to look at the full spectrum. Some of you have been vociferously against Diep, if that’s your opinion that is fine. We have to preserve free speech, that’s a big problem in this country at the moment big tech censorship to anything that oppose their views. That said, there needs to be two sides, there cannot be an echo chamber, which this thread has become.

@anotherhairlosssufferer

Speak to Jim, Dadda (although his result looks good IMO), tentpole (Diep confirmed with me the other day he offered a FREE touch-up, tent failed to acknowledge or mention), but also speak to the patients who are happy, and even the ones in between I would put @FUEblonde1986 in that category. Do not take my word for it, or even anonymous posters who may have not had any interactions with Diep, other than hearing from his critics on this board. Wish you the best whatever you decide. 
 
Below is a list to research and if you want my experience I’m willing to share as well, I can also share a photo of my best friend who had surgery last July.

@E39 @JBlonde @hairvanity @m0dthispny @Kpat131 @FUEblonde1985 @bondi @baldlivesmatter @shookwon33 @SWdan @spyk777 @jkm3 @Skyb

[Skyb]

I just had a consultation literally yesterday with Dr Diep and he is by far the nicest and most professional physician I’ve ever Spoke with.  I have first hand experience with him and his staff and like Melvin states “ he changed my life” I also know plenty of patients who had excellent results recently. How many examples does he have showing his work on a weekly basis. Patients need to understand that you can’t base your results after just a few months. Dr Diep is considered world class in my opinion 

[yalla8]

28 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

This post has been reported by a longtime member, I’ve stayed away from this thread because the Diep witch hunters automatically scream bias if I even respond, but others in the community are starting to take notice. It’s beginning to be ridiculous, every post is about Diep. Diep has over a dozen happy patients on this forum with excellent results, including me. 

 

Since that was my post, I suppose I should respond. First off, I totally agree with you about free speech. In my view, the more speech the better! That's why this forum should exist. 

I have been a casual observer of Jim's progress — in part because we are at about the same stage in the healing process, and in part because I deeply empathize with the struggle that he has so meticulously documented.

Based on everything I've seen in this thread (and others on this forum), I wrote what I wrote. I believe that is within my right and don't see any way I've violated the rules.

If whoever "reported" me wants, they should offer an argument as to why someone who has not yet been operated on should go through with the surgery at Dr Diep's in spite of all the documentation here. Sure, there are positive cases. But a batter hitting 200 is not one I want on my team. Consistency is key, and it is severely lacking from the reports of MHTA clients on this forum.

Really, I am all ears and willing to be convinced otherwise! Like I said, I have no dog in the fight aside from empathy for all HT patients, and it makes me angry when I see what appears, based on substantial evidence in this thread, that a doctor is abusing the trust that his patients place in him.

[Melvin- Admin]

16 minutes ago, yalla8 said:

Since that was my post, I suppose I should respond. First off, I totally agree with you about free speech. In my view, the more speech the better! That's why this forum should exist. 

I have been a casual observer of Jim's progress — in part because we are at about the same stage in the healing process, and in part because I deeply empathize with the struggle that he has so meticulously documented.

Based on everything I've seen in this thread (and others on this forum), I wrote what I wrote. I believe that is within my right and don't see any way I've violated the rules.

If whoever "reported" me wants, they should offer an argument as to why someone who has not yet been operated on should go through with the surgery at Dr Diep's in spite of all the documentation here. Sure, there are positive cases. But a batter hitting 200 is not one I want on my team. Consistency is key, and it is severely lacking from the reports of MHTA clients on this forum.

Really, I am all ears and willing to be convinced otherwise! Like I said, I have no dog in the fight aside from empathy for all HT patients, and it makes me angry when I see what appears, based on substantial evidence in this thread, that a doctor is abusing the trust that his patients place in him.

Well, I believe the report was about sensational claims like “another man suffer at the hands of this doc” that’s a libel claim.  Now, I’m not saying you can’t share your opinion, but speaking in facts, when you don’t know or have them is not right. Here’s an example of what should be said: 

“I have seen some questionable/bad results from this doc, you may want to talk to patient x,y, and z and get their thoughts. I wouldn’t feel comfortable moving forward if it was me, but research and speak to his past patients as many as possible.”

See how your not making any libel claims and simply sharing your genuine opinion. As for the person who reported you, he probably doesn’t want to be attacked by the mob, I’ve been attacked myself, so I understand his apprehension to come forward.

As for happy patients, @Skyb has a thread and has responded. I posted over a dozen patients from this forum with good results, but it doesn’t matter. It’s human nature to be attracted to negativity. In my time as a moderator I’ve seen it. Happy patients and threads get maybe 100 replies, but negative threads get 3x as much.

That’s why the media goes by “if it bleeds, it leads” Dr. Diep had a recent success @Norman Osborne Waves but of course the mob will say it doesn’t count because he has aforecentric hair. Dr. Diep is a good doctor with hundreds if not thousands of excellent results. He posts a new video every week, which shows consistency. There’s also been false narratives painted that Diep did good on me because I was a moderator. I had both my procedures YEARS before I became a moderator. That is the problem with echo chambers, you only see one side, and information is skewed.

[yalla8]

27 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Well, I believe the report was about sensational claims like “another man suffer at the hands of this doc” that’s a libel claim.  Now, I’m not saying you can’t share your opinion, but speaking in facts, when you don’t know or have them is not right. Here’s an example of what should be said: 

“I have seen some questionable/bad results from this doc, you may want to talk to patient x,y, and z and get their thoughts. I wouldn’t feel comfortable moving forward if it was me, but research and speak to his past patients as many as possible.”

See how your not making any libel claims and simply sharing your genuine opinion. As for the person who reported you, he probably doesn’t want to be attacked by the mob, I’ve been attacked myself, so I understand his apprehension to come forward.

As for happy patients, @Skyb has a thread and has responded. I posted over a dozen patients from this forum with good results, but it doesn’t matter. It’s human nature to be attracted to negativity. In my time as a moderator I’ve seen it. Happy patients and threads get maybe 100 replies, but negative threads get 3x as much.

That’s why the media goes by “if it bleeds, it leads” Dr. Diep had a recent success @Norman Osborne Waves but of course the mob will say it doesn’t count because he has aforecentric hair. Dr. Diep is a good doctor with hundreds if not thousands of excellent results. He posts a new video every week, which shows consistency. There’s also been false narratives painted that Diep did good on me because I was a moderator. I had both my procedures YEARS before I became a moderator. That is the problem with echo chambers, you only see one side, and information is skewed.

As a lawyer, I can assure you I am not making a libel claim. Nor do I believe what I said is at all sensational. You have in front of you a man who has thoroughly documented how he has suffered at the hands of Diep in multiple different ways. There are others on this forum who establish this fact pattern as well. I, as hopefully you do too, would prefer not to see someone else go through unnecessary suffering. That's what motivated my reply — to help the patient make a more informed decision. That said, thanks for your reminder of the pressures you're under as moderator of the forum. We shouldn't lose sight of the legal threats clinic may make against you and this valuable forum.

[Melvin- Admin]

12 minutes ago, yalla8 said:

As a lawyer, I can assure you I am not making a libel claim. Nor do I believe what I said is at all sensational. You have in front of you a man who has thoroughly documented how he has suffered at the hands of Diep in multiple different ways. There are others on this forum who establish this fact pattern as well. I, as hopefully you do too, would prefer not to see someone else go through unnecessary suffering. That's what motivated my reply — to help the patient make a more informed decision. That said, thanks for your reminder of the pressures you're under as moderator of the forum. We shouldn't lose sight of the legal threats clinic may make against you and this valuable forum.

I want to make it crystal clear that Diep has not threatened to sue anyone or this forum. My response was my own opinion and the member who reported your post. How can you say he would suffer at his hands if you have no idea, you don’t have a crystal ball.

Again, ignoring the dozen other patients who had good results, what this says to me is “your experience or results don’t matter.” Another reason why I don’t interject. @Skyb just shared his experience, his experience doesn’t matter. I don’t have the time or the energy to fight the mob, I just need to make it clear this thread is an echo chamber, and anyone posing a different view is quickly dismissed. 

Anyway, I’ve said my peace, as the moderator I would appreciate you stay away from sensational claims. You can voice your opinion and direct members the right way. I gave an example of how I’d like to see members conduct themselves on the forum. This will be my last reply, unless another post gets reported and I have to interject once again.

[yalla8]

1 minute ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I want to make it crystal clear that Diep has not threatened to sue anyone or this forum. My response was my own opinion and the member who reported your post. How can you say he would suffer at his hands if you have no idea, you don’t have a crystal ball.

Again, ignoring the dozen other patients who had good results, what this says to me is “your experience or results don’t matter.” Another reason why I don’t interject. @Skyb just shared his experience, his experience doesn’t matter. I don’t have the time or the energy to fight the mob, I just need to make it clear this thread is an echo chamber, and anyone posing a different view is quickly dismissed. 

Thanks for the clarification! I'm glad to hear that the forum is clear from any legal issues.

You're right, I don't have a crystal ball. I would wager none of us do. That's precisely why real patient reviews are so important (and this forum invaluable, thanks to your effort)! 

I am not ignoring anything — to the contrary, I am paying attention. I think it's all too easy to get deluded into the reputation or positive results of a surgeon. Yes, every surgeon will have a mix of good and bad cases. But when the numbers of bad cases elevate to level they have on this forum in the past year for Dr Diep, you need to take notice.

I'm thrilled you and Skyb have positive impressions of your surgeries! But when you say "hey, look at these good reviews," it can actually be interpreted as saying to Jim that he doesn't matter. The reality is each of us do. Every case is important. That's why consistency is key. Why roll the dice with a surgeon that doesn't delivery consistently good results like we all deserve? 

 

[hairlossPA]

1) I haven't really been keeping up with this thread 100% but where did we land as far as @rocknrollman's picture of his hairline with multiple doubles? that doesn't need to wait a full year. Once those hairs pop and you see doubles in the hairline, those dont magically go away.

2) Also what ever happened with that patient who posted screenshots of their communication with the clinic and pricing/scheduling? I don't recall what thread that is in?

Diep is surely not for everyone. If a prospective patient does their research correctly, and as they should, they will find the bad results, alleged ethical issues, etc... and that's all we can do as a community. I'm glad I never pulled the trigger and continued my search.

[Melvin- Admin]

1 minute ago, yalla8 said:

Thanks for the clarification! I'm glad to hear that the forum is clear from any legal issues.

You're right, I don't have a crystal ball. I would wager none of us do. That's precisely why real patient reviews are so important (and this forum invaluable, thanks to your effort)! 

I am not ignoring anything — to the contrary, I am paying attention. I think it's all too easy to get deluded into the reputation or positive results of a surgeon. Yes, every surgeon will have a mix of good and bad cases. But when the numbers of bad cases elevate to level they have on this forum in the past year for Dr Diep, you need to take notice.

I'm thrilled you and Skyb have positive impressions of your surgeries! But when you say "hey, look at these good reviews," it can actually be interpreted as saying to Jim that he doesn't matter. The reality is each of us do. Every case is important. That's why consistency is key. Why roll the dice with a surgeon that doesn't delivery consistently good results like we all deserve? 

 

I would appreciate it if you word your response as you have done now. Do you see the difference between what you wrote now, to what you wrote previously?

However, the fact of the matter is that Jim is nowhere near done, he is barely at 3 months. So far his results look really good, better than I’d say 80% of patients at 3 months. This thread lacks objectivity, it’s clouded by personal biases.

I try very hard not to include any personal bias, contrary to what many believe. I am objective, and that’s  why I’m personally involved in helping patients, I’ve done so multiple times for just about every surgeon. 

Objectively speaking Jim looks like he’s headed for an above average result. However, I’m cognizant of the grievances he has, and that is me being objective. Some of the concerns about aftercare or office communication is valid, no one can tell him otherwise. But we also cannot objectively call his result a failure at 3 months.

Anyway, I have to make this distinction, because it’s a dangerous point of view if we start telling patients that their results are failures at 3 months.