Xyon 2% Dutasteride Siloxysytem Gel Journey

[Melvin- Admin]

Alright guys, 

The time has come, I received my Xyon siloxysytem topical dutasteride gel over the weekend. I’m going to get my DHT levels checked this week. I’ve already started on the gel. I figure the difference a few days would make on my levels would be negligible. I’ll be positing an unboxing very soon, and a video on how to apply it. 
 

My protocol and baseline:

I have been on 2.5mg of oral minoxidil for the past 6 months. I’m not introducing any new treatments while doing this trial. 

I use Nizoral 3x per week, have been for years. The lasercap I’ve been using 2x per week for 30 minutes, since February. 

I will be starting off on a 3-day split. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I won’t wash my hair on the days I use the gel. I will monitor my libido, energy and cognition. I will say, with a newborn at home with colic, the aforementioned issues have been affected by sleep deprivation. If I feel good on a 3-day split, I plan on moving it up to 4 days, 5 days and so forth. 

I will try and update this thread weekly on how I feel, like a journal, but will update photos every month.

[davidn]

Good luck.

[TorontoMan]

Nice, I just ordered the topical dut

[Melvin- Admin]

6 minutes ago, TorontoMan said:

Nice, I just ordered the topical dut

Oh yea I heard they have it available for Canadian patients. I can’t wait till it’s available for the US. 

[GeneralNorwood]

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Alright guys, 

The time has come, I received my Xyon siloxysytem topical finasteride gel over the weekend.

 

Price is rather high compared to my dutasteride 0.5 mg 30 tablets for which i pay 5$, but we should rather compare price to other topicals, which are a lot cheaper anyway  

Do you now what this "2,5% concentration of finasteride" means?". Is this means that there is 25mg in 1 ml of gel, so like 5 proscar tablets in 1 ml? 

And followup question , how many ml of gel do you suppose to use daily and how many ml has one gel? 

[JP28]

5 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Oh yea I heard they have it available for Canadian patients. I can’t wait till it’s available for the US. 

Is there any study about topical dut actually working?

Lots of study about topical fina but never seen one for top dut.

[Curious25]

Good luck! 
 

5 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Do you now what this "2,5% concentration of finasteride" means?". Is this means that there is 25mg in 1 ml of gel, so like 5 proscar tablets in 1 ml?

Yes 

[Melvin- Admin]

5 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Price is rather high compared to my dutasteride 0.5 mg 30 tablets for which i pay 5$, but we should rather compare price to other topicals, which are a lot cheaper anyway  

Do you now what this "2,5% concentration of finasteride" means?". Is this means that there is 25mg in 1 ml of gel, so like 5 proscar tablets in 1 ml? 

And followup question , how many ml of gel do you suppose to use daily and how many ml has one gel? 

If you don’t get sides from the oral, there’s no reason to switch. 

[Chetman2112]

Interesting, will follow for sure!

[Ronnieman]

Did you get your DHT levels (serum and scalp) tested before you went on the XYON? The blood tests won't be that helpful otherwise.

 

Good luck though, I've recently switched to a different brand of topical fin, and it's favourable to oral, side effects wise.

[Melvin- Admin]

3 hours ago, Ronnieman said:

Did you get your DHT levels (serum and scalp) tested before you went on the XYON? The blood tests won't be that helpful otherwise.

 

Good luck though, I've recently switched to a different brand of topical fin, and it's favourable to oral, side effects wise.

Only serum levels, you need to get a biopsy to check scalp levels, and I can’t find a lab that checks that in my area. 

[TorontoMan]

17 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Oh yea I heard they have it available for Canadian patients. I can’t wait till it’s available for the US. 

For once it pays off to be canadian eh

[GeneralNorwood]

12 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

If you don’t get sides from the oral, there’s no reason to switch. 

Oh, there is reason. Topicals are superior to oral in terms of lowering DHT in scalp. 

[Melvin- Admin]

37 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Oh, there is reason. Topicals are superior to oral in terms of lowering DHT in scalp. 

That may be true, I hope I can find a place that checks scalp DHT.

[Curious25]

2 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Oh, there is reason. Topicals are superior to oral in terms of lowering DHT in scalp. 

Could you provide a link to neutral data that backs this up? 

[GeneralNorwood]

3 hours ago, Curious25 said:

Could you provide a link to neutral data that backs this up? 

yes, table 2 : 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285733679_Effects_of_a_novel_finasteride_025_topical_solution_on_scalp_and_serum_dihydrotestosterone_in_healthy_men_with_androgenetic_alopecia

 

Application once a day of 1 ml  finasteride 0,25% lowered scalp DHT by 71,2% after 1 week. But it was small group, 6 men only. 

 

Unfortunetly there are not a lot of studies about topicals. However this study indicates that 1ml 0,25 % topical finasteride crushes DHT in blood by 80%. So we don't know what 10 times higher dose like in XYON gel  can do with DHT in blood. So using this gel to avoid side effects may be pointless, but further studies should be made to resolve this issue. 

5 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

That may be true, I hope I can find a place that checks scalp DHT.

You have to make biopsy, so it's not easy peasy as checking DHT level in blood. And you already started taking gel, so you can't measure the level that was before treatment., unless you stop therapy for some time.

 

Anyway, you have "before" DHT levels in blood, so  it will be interesting to see your DHT level in blood after taking XYON gel for a while. 2.5 % seems like very high dose. 

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, GeneralNorwood said:

yes, table 2 : 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285733679_Effects_of_a_novel_finasteride_025_topical_solution_on_scalp_and_serum_dihydrotestosterone_in_healthy_men_with_androgenetic_alopecia

 

Application once a day of 1 ml  finasteride 0,25% lowered scalp DHT by 71,2% after 1 week. But it was small group, 6 men only. 

 

Unfortunetly there are not a lot of studies about topicals. However this study indicates that 1ml 0,25 % topical finasteride crushes DHT in blood by 80%. So we don't know what 10 times higher dose like in XYON gel  can do with DHT in blood. So using this gel to avoid side effects may be pointless, but further studies should be made to resolve this issue. 

You have to make biopsy, so it's not easy peasy as checking DHT level in blood. And you already started taking gel, so you can't measure the level that was before treatment., unless you stop therapy for some time.

 

Anyway, you have "before" DHT levels in blood, so  it will be interesting to see your DHT level in blood after taking XYON gel for a while. 2.5 % seems like very high dose. 

I’ve only used it one day, so I doubt that would make a significant difference. If I could find a place I would stop and get a biopsy asap. I will call Dr. Mohebi’s officer, perhaps they know of a place locally.

[Melvin- Admin]

Here are some baseline photos outlining where I am applying the gel. 
 

[Curious25]

4 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

yes, table 2 : 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/285733679_Effects_of_a_novel_finasteride_025_topical_solution_on_scalp_and_serum_dihydrotestosterone_in_healthy_men_with_androgenetic_alopecia

 

Application once a day of 1 ml  finasteride 0,25% lowered scalp DHT by 71,2% after 1 week. But it was small group, 6 men only. 

 

Unfortunetly there are not a lot of studies about topicals. However this study indicates that 1ml 0,25 % topical finasteride crushes DHT in blood by 80%. So we don't know what 10 times higher dose like in XYON gel  can do with DHT in blood. So using this gel to avoid side effects may be pointless, but further studies should be made to resolve this issue. 

You have to make biopsy, so it's not easy peasy as checking DHT level in blood. And you already started taking gel, so you can't measure the level that was before treatment., unless you stop therapy for some time.

 

Anyway, you have "before" DHT levels in blood, so  it will be interesting to see your DHT level in blood after taking XYON gel for a while. 2.5 % seems like very high dose. 

Thanks. 
 

Interesting read, although as you have mentioned sample size and the one off nature of the study weakens any credibility to make such statements. 
 

The issues with topicals is that there is no one size fits all formula to study , whether that be the concentration %, the vehicle, or the application amount/frequency. 
 

And if that particular 0.25% formulation from the study dropped serum levels by 80%, well that’s more than what 1mg oral usually drops them by, which defeats the purpose of what I imagine topical users are trying to achieve.
 

Regardless, if it means it’s an entry level gateway medication for people to use before opting for the oral route, it can’t be a bad thing. 
 

 

[GeneralNorwood]

9 hours ago, Curious25 said:

Thanks. 
 

Interesting read, although as you have mentioned sample size and the one off nature of the study weakens any credibility to make such statements. 
 

 

 

Based on this one study, statements that topicals are stronger are not valid, i agree. 

However there is continuation of this study, where group of men was larger, 105 men was counted as using topical finasteride : https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jdv.17738

 

This time this 105 men where using topical 0,25 % finasteride but only 1-4 sprays which equals - 0,05 ml to 0,2 ml. So this is a lot smaller compared to 1ml study. Additional sprays (2–4), if recommended by the study doctor, were applied to cover the rest of the baldness area

And the results established that in group using topical finasteride hair count after 24 weeks was similar to group that was using oral finasteride 1mg, however for those using finasteride, DHT level in blood was a lot smaller. 

And this spray applicator that they used is laughable. I think that this lab guys are so much focused on procedures, that sometimes forget about real life and what is practical. Using this kind of applicator leads to waste of product in hair. 

 

So just imagine, what results in hair count would they achieve when they weren't focused on low DHT level in blood and used 1ml of topical fin for all 105 patients and if they used dropper applicator and no some mumbo jumbo applicator 😆 

 

 

[TorontoMan]

On 12/13/2022 at 9:16 PM, Melvin- Moderator said:

I’ve only used it one day, so I doubt that would make a significant difference. If I could find a place I would stop and get a biopsy asap. I will call Dr. Mohebi’s officer, perhaps they know of a place locally.

I just tried the topical Dut for the first time too. The fact that its a cream sort of puts me off a bit as it seems a bit hard to apply to the scalp and not just end up in hair. Did you find it to be the same issue? 

[HairRun]

"I will say, with a newborn at home with colic, the aforementioned issues have been affected by sleep deprivation". oh man, I would definitely not use it with a kid or baby around. Probably worried about nothing, but you see case studies where geographical area xyz has higher incidences of abc. If I were to do it with a kid around, I'd probably only do it in the morning, so that there isn't a chance to spread elsewhere via pillow. I'd also buy those disposable food service gloves, they're like 500 for 10 bucks or something. I don't have a kid, but that's actually what I did just so it doesn't get on my hands. I then put the gloves in zip lock back before throwing it away. Another thing, watch out for the ball aches / any mild soreness. It's always been a precursor for more serious effects. If I would do it over again I would just back off after the first instance of ball ache. 

When I mentioned that topical fin didn't work, Dr Shapiro suggested looking into topical dut. The reason being it's a way higher weight, so might not penetrate the scalp. 

With that in mind, it might be worth for scientists to look into attaching finasteride to something heavier. 

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, HairRun said:

"I will say, with a newborn at home with colic, the aforementioned issues have been affected by sleep deprivation". oh man, I would definitely not use it with a kid or baby around. Probably worried about nothing, but you see case studies where geographical area xyz has higher incidences of abc. If I were to do it with a kid around, I'd probably only do it in the morning, so that there isn't a chance to spread elsewhere via pillow. I'd also buy those disposable food service gloves, they're like 500 for 10 bucks or something. I don't have a kid, but that's actually what I did just so it doesn't get on my hands. I then put the gloves in zip lock back before throwing it away. Another thing, watch out for the ball aches / any mild soreness. It's always been a precursor for more serious effects. If I would do it over again I would just back off after the first instance of ball ache. 

When I mentioned that topical fin didn't work, Dr Shapiro suggested looking into topical dut. The reason being it's a way higher weight, so might not penetrate the scalp. 

With that in mind, it might be worth for scientists to look into attaching finasteride to something heavier. 

So far no ball pain, I’m gonna switch to the topical dut formula once Xyon releases it in the US. 
 

@TorontoMan How’s it going with the topical dut?

[TorontoMan]

12 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

So far no ball pain, I’m gonna switch to the topical dut formula once Xyon releases it in the US. 
 

@TorontoMan How’s it going with the topical dut?

I only tried it on once just to test it out. I won't begin it until the new year as I'm leaving for vacay this week and don't want to think about applying it. I'll update when I do start 

[yesplease]

7 hours ago, HairRun said:

"I will say, with a newborn at home with colic, the aforementioned issues have been affected by sleep deprivation". oh man, I would definitely not use it with a kid or baby around. Probably worried about nothing, but you see case studies where geographical area xyz has higher incidences of abc. If I were to do it with a kid around, I'd probably only do it in the morning, so that there isn't a chance to spread elsewhere via pillow. I'd also buy those disposable food service gloves, they're like 500 for 10 bucks or something. I don't have a kid, but that's actually what I did just so it doesn't get on my hands. I then put the gloves in zip lock back before throwing it away. Another thing, watch out for the ball aches / any mild soreness. It's always been a precursor for more serious effects. If I would do it over again I would just back off after the first instance of ball ache. 

When I mentioned that topical fin didn't work, Dr Shapiro suggested looking into topical dut. The reason being it's a way higher weight, so might not penetrate the scalp. 

With that in mind, it might be worth for scientists to look into attaching finasteride to something heavier. 

Agree re ball ache 

A possible harbinger for more serious sexual SEs? No study demonstrating this exists, but if taking a medication causes your genitalia to hurt, it makes sense to stop.