FUE Experience w/Dr. Diep MHTA Clinic

[Melvin- Admin]

I sent you a pm because you were already telling other patients that they were lucky they wouldn’t have to worry about disguising a bad hair transplant, you said this at 4 weeks post-op. I also responded to you publicly in that same thread. Calling a hair transplant a failure at 4 weeks is unreasonable and sets a bad tone for future patients. It’s my job to correct this when I see it, that’s part of being a moderator. 

I do not appreciate you insinuating that I would ban you for saying something negative about Diep. You’re spreading misinformation, and that I will not tolerate, you asked me to stop responding or going on your thread. That’s fine, I will respect your wishes. 

I’m not gonna tolerate you denigrating our forum and spreading false rumors. You can share your results, good or bad, but do not try and tarnish our name with bogus claims, or you will be gone.

I won’t comment any further, so long as you remain civil and fair. The tone set for this thread has been negative from the jump, and nine times out of ten- negative threads do not have a happy ending, regardless of the actual result.  You’re free to say however you feel about the result, that is your right, it is not your right to lie about our integrity.

best wishes, 
✌🏼

[jimcraig152]

So the "mafia" statement was cheeky, but out of line. Apologies for that. I did not ask you to refrain on commenting in my thread. I did suggest that moderators recuse themselves from moderating threads discussing the work of surgeons who've performed work on them. The suggestion is to ensure impartiality which is the hallmark of what this forum is supposed to be about. This should be simple to implement. I ask again that be seriously considered.

I've never said my hair transplant is a failure, nor have I given up. Where does that come from? As you can see I've been documenting my journey quite thoroughly. That is not the hallmark of someone that has packed up and moved on, is it? What my thread does illustrate is my journey. The techniques used in extraction, donor supply management, and graft placement within my procedure are a part of that. The quality therein are clear for anyone to see. Additionally, I've elaborated on the operation of MHTA has a clinic. These things should be made known to any prospective patient considering to have work done at MHTA. I am well aware that I may look great once this journey is done. But despite what the results may be, sometimes "It's about the journey not the destination." Also, "the devil is in the details." And I don't feel my thread isn't negative. It's helped a number of people so far. Haven't you seen their responses? I just don't think you see that.

As for my post that spurred your PM, here it is. Also, it was followed up with this statement. I am pretty sure that the OP in that thread, @Buffaloboy, is thankful that MHTA patients gave him feedback and he was able to make a choice he was comfortable with despite the loss of his deposit. But ok, point taken. You've given me carte blanche to criticize Dr. Diep's work, particularly the work performed on me. I will exercise that, particular as I near the end of the journey. But, I am not allowed to make cheeky statements concerning the forum integrity. Point taken.

[jimcraig152]

End of Week 9 Update:

I received an unsolicited email today from MHTA stating that I did not register the Onpatient.com invite they resent ~4 weeks ago. That isn't correct, because I did register the Onpatient.com invite and after doing so sent two messages asking for follow-up consultations, the agreement I signed on the day of the procedure, and the breakdown of the singles, doubles, triples grafts that were implanted. I sent them a screenshot from Onpatient.com with those messages and now will await their response. Probably another snafu and should be solved. Glad they didn't forget about me and that I am a patient of their medical clinic. Better late than never I suppose.

Speaking of which, my procedure date was 7/24/2020. That means I am now officially 2 full months into the recovery process. Whoohoo!! That is an important milestone because we know that marks early "Spring" for HT patients and it is during the 3rd-4th month that the transplanted growth should really start sprouting. And it also means that hopefully I am at bottom depths of the ugly duckly phase. Which considering much of the center frontal area above the hairline didn't fall out and that we are in quarantine hasn't been all too bad. Despite the shortcomings of Dr. Diep's surgical techniques, he has proven time and again that his patients can rest assured of one thing: high graft survival. Just about every graft that doesn't dislodge early in the process does take root.

Thought it would be good to illustrate where I was and where I am now with this pic. The upper corners of the transplanted area is filling in faster than towards the hairline and is mixing in well with what natural hair was once there.

Hairline shots. Grafts nearer to the hairline corners are really taking their time coming in.

Don't know if I can ever get used to looking at the left side of my hairline.

The donor area shots:

And the cumulative photos:

[jimcraig152]

So, after letting MHTA know that I did register the Onpatient.com invite and sending them a screenshot of the messages I sent through that portal, MHTA magically figured out that they made a snafu and quickly followed through the portal to address my requests:

1. I want a breakdown of the singles, doubles, triples that were implanted
2. I want a copy of the final agreement and terms I signed the day of the procedure
3. I want a follow-up consultations scheduled

What I got was:

1. A copy of the invoice which I already have. No breakdown of the grafts like I had asked
2. The last page of some agreement with Dr. Diep's signature, my signature was not on it. As far as I can tell, it could be some random document
3. I did get an offer to meet virtually with Dr. Diep on 10/13. I think I'll take that. Also, got this offer of an appointment via email. Not through the Onpatient.com portal which is kind of odd. Been asking for a follow-up for some time now. If it could have been done through email, why wasn't it done earlier?

But hey. They actually followed up after I had nearly resigned that post-op and post pocketing my money, that I'd be on my own. I didn't have to shake them down with another email. They actually reached out me on their own (unsolicited) and in an Olympic/World Record time of only 2-months after my surgery date! What do you know, they might be able to add back in the "M" for "Medical" in MHTA afterall. Keep you guys posted in this regard.

[Flash10]

Looks like the growing has begun bro!  I'm honestly so jealous! I'm at the climax of the ugly duckling phase. I read the entirety of your forum and see where you are coming from. Feel free to just disregard my advice completely, but I think the best way for you to be happy is to stay positive and not compare your transplant to others. Although there are some things that aren't ideal, at the end of the day, if your grafts have a huge survival rate, you're going to have an amazing head of hair where if it really bothers you, you can have a great surgeon come in and finesse the hairline, which really is the only thing that matters IMO lol..  Donor seems to be healing well and I'm sure will look better as the head recovers from the trauma and any hairs shocked out will regrow and create great density. All the best healing and growing brother. Stay positive!

[jimcraig152]

Hey @Flash10, thanks for stopping by!

Despite the tone of my thread, I am very positive about my outcomes. I am someone that has the ability to analyze critically and knows being critical does not equate to being negative, nor does it put me in a position where I am tiptoeing along a precipice. Advances in HT wouldn't be where they are today had it not been for critique. Others who've had work done with Dr. Diep call out the shortcomings, but then approach realities in a "The Emperor's New Clothes" type fashion. Even calling out the honesty that others express as idiocy. I don't know if that is done consciously or not. My writings on the experience is just honesty which is rare these days, but based upon responses received privately and around this forum are greatly appreciated. I am not alone among patients of Dr. Diep who are being honest. Just a bit more thorough.

I do love and appreciate seeing great work in HT when I see it though. I put in a few words of support when I do. I leave the criticisms silent in other experience threads or isolated to only my thread where I know I can handle it (case in point). So once again, congrats on the work done on you. And thank you!

My weekly update is coming shortly.

[jimcraig152]

End of Week 10 Update:

MHTA finally set my first follow-up appointment, gave me the graft breakout, and a copy of the agreement signed on the day of the procedure. Took some initiative mostly on my part, a whole lot of back and forth with me reiterating what I was asking for, but hey, on the bright side, it is done!

So here is the breakdown:

• 1's: 382
• 2's: 1096
• 3's: 591
• 4's: 268
• Total:  2337

There was one term on the agreement for which I could not recollect the answer I provided and that was concerning the extra grafts that might be needed over the original 2250 estimate derived from the consultation. Dr. Diep did go over by 87 grafts, but they ended up waving that extra cost in the end. In any case, I remember leaving that section of the agreement unspecified until after I had the final consultation with Dr. Diep. Looks like I was convinced to allow for unlimited grafts before the procedure. I don't think I would normally allow for that. There were 3 options and interestingly enough, they were all fill in the blank. Even with that, the right side of my recipient area is certainly more sparse than my left side. We know that Dr. Diep starts on the left, then moves right. So was the man in a hurry by the time he got to the right side? We know his time in surgery with patients is divided in half already with a patient in the other room. Certainly isn't a stretch for his time to be stretched thin. When that happens, compromises have to be made and those compromises show up time and again in the work Dr. Diep performs. I'll check out what else is in the agreement. Particularly interested in the anesthesia regiment. I certainly was not told I would be going under. So I am curious as to what else I agreed to.

I am getting lots of new hair in the areas of the upper corners. But that new growth is the result of my response to fin and/or min. Dr. Diep implants grafts in rows and newly transplanted hairs grow out straggly. This growth is straight and in natural patterns. I certainly should have started meds sooner. Maybe 20 years ago. I only started them in May. The grafts I do see fall into two categories.

• Holdovers that remain from original implantation that are as long and as strong as my natural hair
• Grafts that have pierced through the skin but remain as seedlings

With the 3rd month and forward being when HT patients should be expecting growth, I'll be sure to document the slow recovery process as I go along.

I am not as bald as this overhead shot shows! It's just the angle the hairs grow from, angle of the lense, and lighting shown right on top

Donor sensation is now at about 75% of pre-op status. I get striking shards of pain or itchiness from time to time. But relaxed steady state sensation is almost unnoticeable.

These side shots of the donor don't illustrate what I am seeing in the mirror. Just angles and lighting casting shadows. I am tempted to clip it down again, but nah. I'll just wait till Thanksgiving.

And the cumulative comparison shot. There has been some progress, but that progress doesn't show up in photos yet.

Edited October 3, 2020 by jimcraig152

[jimcraig152]

End of Week 11 Update:

I have my 1st follow-up consultation with Dr. Diep on Monday. I will be asking him why he implants grafts in unnatural rows. Why he performs extractions asymmetrically. But the bulk of the discussion shall be on concerning my personal status now and in the future. I'll be sure to record the conversation.

As for the progress, the grafts are really starting to break the skin. From the frontal shot, the grafts are in profile so you can see where they are at in terms of growth. I am also, continuing to respond well from the medical treatment. Results are something just about all Dr. Diep patients can rejoice in. It's the other "stuff" that concerns us.

From the side views, the growth is harder to see as you can tell. But you can see the other "stuff".

Left side is progressing faster than the right side.

Extractions on my right side were done very high towards the vertex. This really sucks because what ever thinning I have in the vertex is exacerbated by how far up the grafts were pulled from just to the right of the vertex. If I had any appearance of a bald spot at the vertex, that appearance of a bald spot is now going to look larger.

EDIT:  Cumulative photo is below:

Edited October 16, 2020 by jimcraig152

[MagnificentAl]

@jimcraig152thank you so much for your detailed posts. I recently had a procedure done 2 days ago (Konior) and I have not faced anything that you have. The pain that you have been feeling weeks after in your donar area is absolutely concerning to me.

[jimcraig152]

1 hour ago, MagnificentAl said:

@jimcraig152thank you so much for your detailed posts. I recently had a procedure done 2 days ago (Konior) and I have not faced anything that you have. The pain that you have been feeling weeks after in your donar area is absolutely concerning to me.

Just get ready for the pain. The first week after surgery was pain free. The 2nd & 3rd weeks were the worst. After that, just some shards of piercing intermittent pain that would quickly go away. Get some 98%-100% aloe vera gel (not lotion with aloe vera). Helps tons. Have those pain killers ready to keep pain at bay. When it comes to pain, best to keep it at bay than to work to alleviating it.

I saw in your video that you paid $13/graft with Konior. I paid $8/graft, though normally Dr. Diep charges $10/graft. I was curious what he charged. But all things considered, Konior's work is world class and it shows. Congrats man!

[MagnificentAl]

13 minutes ago, jimcraig152 said:

Just get ready for the pain. The first week after surgery was pain free. The 2nd & 3rd weeks were the worst. After that, just some shards of piercing intermittent pain that would quickly go away. Get some 98%-100% aloe vera gel (not lotion with aloe vera). Helps tons. Have those pain killers ready to keep pain at bay. When it comes to pain, best to keep it at bay than to work to alleviating it.

I saw in your video that you paid $13/graft with Konior. I paid $8/graft, though normally Dr. Diep charges $10/graft. I was curious what he charged. But all things considered, Konior's work is world class and it shows. Congrats man!

If you had a chance to do it all over again with Diep would you? Curious why you didn’t go with someone like Rassman or Hassan and Wong.

[jimcraig152]

1 minute ago, MagnificentAl said:

If you had a chance to do it all over again with Diep would you? Curious why you didn’t go with someone like Rassman or Hassan and Wong.

I have been told to reserve judgement till next July. However, I can say the misery of dealing with his office operations is worthy of breaking the deal, even now.

I let the convenience of geography (I'm a San Jose native), his Youtube videos, and the testimony of a childhood friend stop me from doing the obsessive diligence I normally do when I make decisions. The devil is always in the details however. You're an engineer, so you didn't make that mistake.

[MagnificentAl]

Just now, jimcraig152 said:

I have been told to reserve judgement till next July. However, I can say the misery of dealing with his office operations is worthy of breaking the deal, even now.

I let the convenience of geography (I'm a San Jose native), his Youtube videos, and the testimony of a childhood friend stop me from doing the obsessive diligence I normally do when I make decisions. The devil is always in the details however. You're an engineer, so you didn't make that mistake.

Whoa! I am also a San Jose native myself! Born and raised. Moved to Mountain View for work and now in Atlanta also for work. I was really close to picking Diep 👌🏼 as I dated a receptionist there (she was very pushy like an old car salesman) and being so close to Los Gatos. A few hours of research in regards to Diep quickly convinced me to look elsewhere.I see your hair has improved significantly, hoping for the best!! 

[BDK081522]

@MagnificentAl I wouldn't worry too much about the pain that @jimcraig152 is describing. I've had procedures with both surgeons and can tell you firsthand there was no notable pain a couple days after Konior's surgery. His donor sites are done so meticulously that there's no unnecessary trauma. Your donor and recipient will itch like crazy in the coming days/weeks while it's healing but I wouldn't classify it as pain. I just kept spraying the itchy areas with saline. That temporarily alleviates the itching but it comes back rather quickly. The swelling was pretty atrocious with both but only lasted a few days. Massage laterally and ice and you'll be good. 

[MagnificentAl]

3 minutes ago, BDK081522 said:

@MagnificentAl I wouldn't worry too much about the pain that @jimcraig152 is describing. I've had procedures with both surgeons and can tell you firsthand there was no notable pain a couple days after Konior's surgery. His donor sites are done so meticulously that there's no unnecessary trauma. Your donor and recipient will itch like crazy in the coming days/weeks while it's healing but I wouldn't classify it as pain. I just kept spraying the itchy areas with saline. That temporarily alleviates the itching but it comes back rather quickly. The swelling was pretty atrocious with both but only lasted a few days. Massage laterally and ice and you'll be good. 

@BDK081522thank you so much for your insight! This response absolutely has me feeling relief. 
 

Did your swelling start after the third day? Around what day did the swelling improved ?@BDK081522

Edited October 10, 2020 by MagnificentAl
Asked another question

[jimcraig152]

Yeah, the pain isn't agony. But it is persistent. Feels like being a little too close to a campfire that you can't move back and away from. Don't know what your tolerance is for pain, but just be ready for it. No idea if I would have crossed into the unbearable pain threshold because I kept that possibility from coming about by using the meds. Best to manage pain by keeping it at bay, than to deal with it after onset. But then again, you went to Konior and I went to Diep.

In the case of my swelling, the scalp expansion fluid pooled down to my right eye and blackened it by the 3rd day. By the 7th day, it was swollen shut. No pain though, it wasn't blackened from trauma. By the end of the 2nd week, the blackening disappeared. Some slight yellowing remained through the 3rd week. All signs of bruising went away by the end of the 3rd week.

[BDK081522]

On 10/9/2020 at 8:38 PM, MagnificentAl said:

@BDK081522thank you so much for your insight! This response absolutely has me feeling relief. 
 

Did your swelling start after the third day? Around what day did the swelling improved ?@BDK081522

My swelling started on day 2 and dissipated by day 6/7. I was pretty consistent with icing on my forehead and eyes. 

[jimcraig152]

These two photos are of my right eye on the 3rd day. By the 7th day, it was swollen shut. There was no pain however, I knew it was just fluid an blood from broken capillaries. I didn't sweat it at all. Plus being in quarantine helped a ton. With thousands of scabs on your head during that time, you won't even be thinking about a black eye.

the

[jimcraig152]

I want to add this wide angle shot of my donor area:

No, I am not praying and thanking the blessings that are Apple products. I am taking this photo from the reflection in the mirror. I want to illustrate the patchiness of my donor as a result of two things:

1. No mapping/graphing out the extraction area
2. Extracting too many grafts from too small of an area (or areas)

From my close-in update photos, the patchiness is less noticeable. But from this wide angle shot, the shortcomings become obvious. Even now, the hair on the sides and back are longer than I want to wear it normally now that I've had the procedure. I'll expand further upon this in my next weekly update. For now, I just want you all to see this.

[yalla8]

It's definitely looking better than a month ago, but you're right to point out the obvious deficiencies in the extraction process. I simply don't understand how this is defensible!

[MagnificentAl]

22 hours ago, jimcraig152 said:

These two photos are of my right eye on the 3rd day. By the 7th day, it was swollen shut. There was no pain however, I knew it was just fluid an blood from broken capillaries. I didn't sweat it at all. Plus being in quarantine helped a ton. With thousands of scabs on your head during that time, you won't even be thinking about a black eye.

the

Oh man I’m sorry to hear this. Hopefully your eye is a lot better now?  During your recovery did you spend your first few days laying down? Or were you doing light activities?

Edited October 12, 2020 by MagnificentAl

[jimcraig152]

6 hours ago, yalla8 said:

It's definitely looking better than a month ago, but you're right to point out the obvious deficiencies in the extraction process. I simply don't understand how this is defensible!

It's not defensible. It's the 'Emperor's New Clothes' syndrome. In that tale, the Emperor sent his officials to check on the status of the cloth the weavers/swindlers were making for the Emperor. The officials found that there was no cloth being spun. But because it was said that the cloth is so fine and light, incompetent or stupid individuals would not be able to see the cloth, they reported back that the cloth was magnificent so as to not be thought of as fools.

Same thing is happening here. These guys paid extra for FUE to be delivered by the man known as the FUE King so that their excision scars are imperceptible. Found that the FUE donor site was worse than had they gone with FUT. Now express that because they have hair in the front where they were once bald, tell everyone that they've had magnificent results so as to not look like fools. These guys would have probably looked just as good and paid less had they gone with FUT.

You get FUE and pay extra for a reason. Anyone remember what that reason is?

1 hour ago, MagnificentAl said:

Oh man I’m sorry to hear this. Hopefully your eye is a lot better now?  During your recovery did you spend your first few days laying down? Or were you doing light activities?

Swelling is temporary. Didn't bother me at all.

I kept myself bed ridden for 2 weeks. Took the first week off and forced myself to get lots of rest. Loaded up on video games and Netflix for entertainment. Door Dashed food to my house. Didn't want to exert myself in any way accidentally opening an incision. The early days, you look grotesque (well I am a Diep patient, and you might not being that you are a Konior patient), so you will sort of naturally be a bit of a hermit. After the 2nd week, the hair has grown out a bit hiding the procedure at a glance, then you can get back to normal life stuff in the pandemic world.

[yalla8]

3 minutes ago, jimcraig152 said:

It's not defensible. It's the 'Emperor's New Clothes' syndrome. In that tale, the Emperor sent his officials to check on the status of the cloth the weavers/swindlers were making for the Emperor. The officials found that there was no cloth being spun. But because it was said that the cloth is so fine and light, incompetent or stupid individuals would not be able to see the cloth, they reported back that the cloth was magnificent so as to not be thought of as fools.

Same thing is happening here. These guys paid extra for FUE to be delivered by the man known as the FUE King so that their excision scars are imperceptible. Found that the FUE donor site was worse than had they gone with FUT. Now express that because they have hair in the front where they were once bald, tell everyone that they've had magnificent results so as to not look like fools. These guys would have probably looked just as good and paid less had they gone with FUT.

 

Very perceptive! I think this tale applies to many of the "top" docs on this forum. Not that they are swindlers, but rather they aren't so special. Among the doctors that do good hair transplants, I don't see a huge difference... yet the price varies from $2-$15 per graft. I would argue this dynamic (and price premium) is driven by a version of the Emperor's syndrome.

[jimcraig152]

"To achieve the density we have produced with our patients, we implant in rows. We can implant in randomly but you will not achieve the same density. The blood supply is limited for the grafts. Other doctors....Hasson & Wong do not achieve our levels of density. If you look at farmers, they do not grow in random patterns........"

That was Dr. Diep's answer to my question presented to him last night as to why he implants in rows. So there you have it. The answer and reason why Dr. Diep implants in rows. Admittedly, Dr. Diep does achieve excellent density.

I'll leave that here for you guys to mull over before my next update. Paging a few folks who've wondered why this is done as so:  @Tentpole91, @Dadda, @Noodles123, @Buffaloboy, @hybonix, @BDK081522. Feel free to discuss.

[hybonix]

8 minutes ago, jimcraig152 said:

"To achieve the density we have produced with our patients, we implant in rows. We can implant in randomly but you will not achieve the same density. The blood supply is limited for the grafts. Other doctors....Hasson & Wong do not achieve our levels of density. If you look at farmers, they do not grow in random patterns........"

That was Dr. Diep's answer to my question presented to him last night as to why he implants in rows. So there you have it. The answer and reason why Dr. Diep implants in rows. Admittedly, Dr. Diep does achieve excellent density.

I'll leave that here for you guys to mull over before my next update. Paging a few folks who've wondered why this is done as so:  @Tentpole91, @Dadda, @Noodles123, @Buffaloboy, @hybonix, @BDK081522. Feel free to discuss.

I appreciate the explanation. That would make sense if Diep always implanted his patients that way. Historically, he did it a more random interval. Unless they have recently been finding rows provide more density and are changing their approach now. I would be curious to have another surgeon like Shapiro, H&W, or Konior respond to this claim...

Edited October 13, 2020 by hybonix