Top 5 FUE/FUT docs, 2020 edition

[Gasthoerer]

On 10/20/2020 at 6:26 PM, Portugal25 said:

Here`s my opinion on the best of best.

TOP FUE Doctors

Dr. Raymond Konior 

Dr. Bruno Ferreira 

Dr. Bruno Pinto 

Dr. Sahar Nadimi 

 

How does Nadimi make it on your list? And this is an honest question no critique. 

Granted she has a great teacher but she has how much posted reviews? 3? 5? And she does this for only a couple of years while still doing nose jobs etc. 

Also, I think Konior and Nadimi using pre-made slits and not implanter pens or am I mislead?

Edited October 23, 2020 by Gasthoerer

[Portugal25]

11 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

 

How does Nadimi make it on your list?

Granted she has a great teacher but she has how much posted reviews? 3? 5? And she does this for only a couple of years while still doing nose jobs etc. 

Also, I think Konior and Nadimi using pre-made slits and not implanter pens or am I mislead?

@Gasthoerer Konior and Nadimi are both doing stick&place on just 1 patient per day. She was few patients posting results online but the ones she has are amazing on par with Konior. I believe in the future she will be to Konior what Bloxham is now to Feller.

Haven’t seen any other US Doctor doing surgery on just 1 patient per day with such a highly skilled technique so I can understand why they are much much more expensive than all the other US docs still doing FUE with pre-made slits on more than 1 patient per day.

Couto would be on my TOP 5 if he would focus on just 1 patient per day but that’s just my preference after having had a experience where the doctor was next to me for 3 whole days focused on just my surgery and nobody else’s. 

Guess I also value Doctors that have amazing skills and results but still out to make a name for themselves a bit more than those that have already made a name for themselves for decades and have nothing more to prove. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Portugal25

[Gasthoerer]

13 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

@Gasthoerer Konior and Nadimi are both doing stick&place on just 1 patient per day. She was few patients posting results online but the ones she has are amazing on par with Konior.

Mmh, I do not know if they do exclusively stick&place, maybe someone who was there can confirm. But stick&place is not DHI, it is still slits with a blade. And I think it is not only the method you use it is also the experience you have. And she cannot have that much. 

And more importantly, the artistry in hairline and swirl design is also very important not only the method. I have not seen enough to make an evaluation of her artistry. What I have seen: Because of her methods she limits the amount of grafts per session below what I think is appropriate for the case. 

I understand you love for the newcomers using the "right" method, but there is no proof that DHI and/or stick&place lead to better results. An "method" is not "skill". A heart surgeon with a tremor in his hand can have the best "protocol", he still would kill the patient 😉  In the end for me: The proof is in the pudding. And Nadimi is far away from having "proof" IMO. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Gasthoerer

[Portugal25]

11 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

Mmh, I do not know if they do exclusively stick&place, maybe someone who was there can confirm. But stick&place is not DHI, it is still slits with a blade. And I think it is not only the method you use it is also the experience you have. And she cannot have that much. 

And more importantly, the artistry in hairline and swirl design is also very important not only the method. I have not seen enough to make an evaluation of her artistry. What I have seen: Because of her methods she limits the amount of grafts per session below what I think is appropriate for the case. 

Quite right maybe I jumped the gun due to the few stellar work some of her patients posted and her technique that despite not being DHI I do believe when performed by a skilled surgeon it can provide even better results because the Doctor has more sensitivity when implanting the graft vs DHI that’s a technique that makes implanting so simple that it lead to worldwide tech run franchise HT joints. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Portugal25

[Raphael84]

Interesting.

It really depends on what elements are being used to critique/decide.

Is your preference in technique more important than consistent results.

Is more economical price more important than experience? Normally the more experience a doctor may have, the more demand he/she will have (providing they are delivering results) and this will normally effect pricing.

Some doctors are more comfortable to take on “safer” cases with patients who have experienced a lesser amount of loss, and therefore it is “easier” to achieve those consistently great results. Other doctors may take on much more challenging cases than others would be prepared to consider, and may achieve an incredible result based on the patients limitations and case difficulty, but it may not impress as much as a dense hairline for example. But which doctor achieved the more impressive result when considering all factors?

What about when a patient may have not achieved that optimal yield, whether it be due to physiology, scalp concern or whatever the case may be, how does their doctor stand behind them. Are their employees always their to support. Will the doctor offer an appropriate solution willingly?

Whilst I love to see “new” doctors making a name for themselves, I don’t think a handful of impressive results is comparable to other doctors who have performed and delivered year in year out. Newer doctors may well surpass them with time and every field evolves, but to be in the “top 5” list, I would look for many examples of all different kinds of cases from female, repair, different Norwood patients etc... Otherwise the “top 5” should be “top 5 Norwood 2” doctors.

Is technical ability and artistic vision considered?

There are many variables to consider and we will all have our own opinion. As long as patients have access to quality physicians who have their best interest as their priority and who can  deliver consistently optimal results; this is what I believe is important.

Always interesting to hear people’s opinion. Each of us will have our own preferred doctors due to their personal style and approach.

[Portugal25]

5 minutes ago, Raphael84 said:

Interesting.

It really depends on what elements are being used to critique/decide.

Is your preference in technique more important than consistent results.

Is more economical price more important than experience? Normally the more experience a doctor may have, the more demand he/she will have (providing they are delivering results) and this will normally effect pricing.

Some doctors are more comfortable to take on “safer” cases with patients who have experienced a lesser amount of loss, and therefore it is “easier” to achieve those consistently great results. Other doctors may take on much more challenging cases than others would be prepared to consider, and may achieve an incredible result based on the patients limitations and case difficulty, but it may not impress as much as a dense hairline for example. But which doctor achieved the more impressive result when considering all factors?

What about when a patient may have not achieved that optimal yield, whether it be due to physiology, scalp concern or whatever the case may be, how does their doctor stand behind them. Are their employees always their to support. Will the doctor offer an appropriate solution willingly?

Whilst I love to see “new” doctors making a name for themselves, I don’t think a handful of impressive results is comparable to other doctors who have performed and delivered year in year out. Newer doctors may well surpass them with time and every field evolves, but to be in the “top 5” list, I would look for many examples of all different kinds of cases from female, repair, different Norwood patients etc... Otherwise the “top 5” should be “top 5 Norwood 2” doctors.

Is technical ability and artistic vision considered?

There are many variables to consider and we will all have our own opinion. As long as patients have access to quality physicians who have their best interest as their priority and who can  deliver consistently optimal results; this is what I believe is important.

Always interesting to hear people’s opinion. Each of us will have our own preferred doctors due to their personal style and approach.

My choice of TOP 5 are Doctors that have been around for several years with technical artistry and vision that take on really tuff cases and repair jobs.
Dr. BF does surgery on DUPA patients at Lorenzo’s clinic on a regular basis and has accepted patients that were rejected by other good Doctors. 
Dr. Bruno Pinto should have between the two Spanish foruns well over one hundred real patients results and all the ones I saw were flawless regardless the norwood level. 
Konior is the undisputed US Fue champ and yes some may argue I jumped the gun on adding Nadimi to my TOP 5 but she’s been trained by the best and just needs more real patients posting her work. 

Again, my preference for FUE Doctors that are focused on just 1 patient per day and aren’t doing pre-made slits left out amazing surgeons like Couto, Freitas and Bisanga but that’s just my personal FUE preference. 

[1978matt]

I called in on Dr K back in 2014 and observed him perform an FUT on a patient.  (Strip removal and an hour or so of grafting).  The patient consented beforehand.

He uses needles (19,20,21 guage etc) to make an incision into which his lead tech inserts the graft immediately after.  Another tech supplies the lead tech with the grafts according to requirements.  Grafts are handled with foreceps not implanters.

Interestingly he doesnt do one area completely in one go.  He would start the hairline off and then move to another zone, then go back later and build up the density.  Not a bad idea as you can go back and tweak things depending on how it pans out.

Edited October 23, 2020 by 1978matt

[Melvin- Admin]

@Portugal25

It looks like you should update your list with some of the information given on this thread. 
 

@Raphael84 $4 a graft for Dr. Bisanga is a bargain! What’s the cost for going to Athens? And can you explain the difference?

[Portugal25]

1 minute ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

@Portugal25

It looks like you should update your list with some of the information given on this thread. 
 

@Raphael84 $4 a graft for Dr. Bisanga is a bargain! What’s the cost for going to Athens? And can you explain the difference?

I updated this morning right after @Raphael84post 😉

[PizzaWolf]

7 hours ago, Raphael84 said:

Dr. Bisanga charges €4.00 per graft FUE.

So is that €3.00 per graft before tax?

[Portugal25]

1 minute ago, PizzaWolf said:

So is that €3.00 per graft before tax?

No it’s plus tax but it seems that it’s easy to get around that. 

[PizzaWolf]

Just now, Portugal25 said:

No it’s plus tax but it seems that it’s easy to get around that. 

So it could be €3.00? I think I'm still confused.

[Portugal25]

5 minutes ago, PizzaWolf said:

So it could be €3.00? I think I'm still confused.

4.00€ plus tax

[MachoVato]

50 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

4.00€ plus tax

Belgium charges 21% VAT on all cosmetic procedures including hair transplant.

[baldiee]

On 10/21/2020 at 6:48 PM, Portugal25 said:

Konior does charge 15.4USD per graft not insane it’s the ruff estimate I got over the phone and I have to say it was really difficult to get a estimate over the phone abd the lady did say that it can be even higher than 16US/graft. 

Couto does 2 patients per day I did confirm this with his clinic so there’s no way he does the whole surgery (he’s considered a God at FUE but he’s not omnipresent).

Freitas does up to 4 patients per day so obviously he has to delegate part of his surgeries to techs. The Brazilian lady that answered the phone got upset with me for asking to many questions and wanted to why I was asking so many details about the surgery. I can olny assume she is used to people only asking about available dates or was trained at a Hairmill.

Despite Freitas starting in this field at a Hairmill if both him and Couto did surgery on just 1 patient per day they would both be on my TOP 5 FUE Docs. 

I had a recent consultation with Dr. Konior (1 month ago). He doesn't do dollar per graft. His fee is simply $25,000 for one session, no matter how many grafts are harvested. 

[giegnosiganoe]

55 minutes ago, baldiee said:

I had a recent consultation with Dr. Konior (1 month ago). He doesn't do dollar per graft. His fee is simply $25,000 for one session, no matter how many grafts are harvested. 

I wonder why his price structure keeps changing? I was also told $12/graft a few months ago. If you only need 1500 grafts, then you'd be paying $16.67/graft at the price you were told which is pretty absurd. 2000 grafts via FUE is pretty much the most that can be done in a day anyway, and that would be $12.50/graft.

Did you consult with him in person? Curious how that went?

Edited October 24, 2020 by giegnosiganoe

[1978matt]

2 hours ago, baldiee said:

I had a recent consultation with Dr. Konior (1 month ago). He doesn't do dollar per graft. His fee is simply $25,000 for one session, no matter how many grafts are harvested. 

That's not quite right though as i checked back and you said : Dr. Konior is offering to do 3,000-3,500 grafts (based on pictures; he'll be able to give a more precise number after doing a microscopic evaluation) for $25,000.

So that's roughly $8 a graft for an FUT of this size.

[baldiee]

5 hours ago, giegnosiganoe said:

I wonder why his price structure keeps changing? I was also told $12/graft a few months ago. If you only need 1500 grafts, then you'd be paying $16.67/graft at the price you were told which is pretty absurd. 2000 grafts via FUE is pretty much the most that can be done in a day anyway, and that would be $12.50/graft.

Did you consult with him in person? Curious how that went?

Well I am speaking from 100% truth and transparency from my back to back email conversations with him. From my pictures, he predicted he would be able to harvest 3,000-3,500 grafts and that there is no dollar per graft when I asked for the price. Simply that his cost is $25,000 for one session with him. 

We spoke for a good week with in-depth emails. He seemed ethical and his work seems amazing. I'm sure he is a great surgeon. However, he is a bit pricey. 

 

3 hours ago, 1978matt said:

That's not quite right though as i checked back and you said : Dr. Konior is offering to do 3,000-3,500 grafts (based on pictures; he'll be able to give a more precise number after doing a microscopic evaluation) for $25,000.

So that's roughly $8 a graft for an FUT of this size.

You can say $8/graft for that amount. But regardless if you do 1,500 grafts or 5,000 grafts, it does not matter. The price is still going to be $25,000. 

Edit: this is incorrect. He charges by session size for an individual. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by baldiee

[1978matt]

17 minutes ago, baldiee said:

Well I am speaking from 100% truth and transparency from my back to back email conversations with him. From my pictures, he predicted he would be able to harvest 3,000-3,500 grafts and that there is no dollar per graft when I asked for the price. Simply that his cost is $25,000 for one session with him. 

We spoke for a good week with in-depth emails. He seemed ethical and his work seems amazing. I'm sure he is a great surgeon. However, he is a bit pricey. 

 

You can say $8/graft for that amount. But regardless if you do 1,500 grafts or 5,000 grafts, it does not matter. The price is still going to be $25,000. 

I think you may have misunderstood.  He charges on session size not on a per graft basis for FUT (1500-2000, 2000-2500...and so on) and there is no way he would charge $25,000 for 1000 grafts FUT.   It is most likely calculated on time and the number of staff he would need to pay for the approximate number of grafts required. For example he may need 5 people for 1500-2000 grafts, and 8 for 3000-3500.

[baldiee]

2 minutes ago, 1978matt said:

I think you may have misunderstood.  He charges on session size not on a per graft basis for FUT (1500-2000, 2000-2500...and so on) and there is no way he would charge $25,000 for 1000 grafts FUT.   It is most likely calculated on time and the number of staff he would need to pay for the approximate number of grafts required. For example he may need 5 people for 1500-2000 grafts, and 8 for 3000-3500.

I see what you're saying. That is probably it. By session size.

Edited October 24, 2020 by baldiee

[BDK081522]

5 hours ago, baldiee said:

I had a recent consultation with Dr. Konior (1 month ago). He doesn't do dollar per graft. His fee is simply $25,000 for one session, no matter how many grafts are harvested. 

You're misunderstanding what Dr. Konior told you. I'm sure he said for your case it's $25,000 based on what he expects can be accomplished. He expects to be able to harvest 3,000-3,500 grafts. So for this amount in your case his estimate is 25K. If you only needed 1,500 your price would be less. As Matt stated it's not per graft but total operating cost. When I changed my plan with him and decided on more grafts his price changed for me so it's not a flat $25,000 for every case. His estimates are on a  case by case basis. 

[miko]

To Dr. Couto and Fuexpert clinic: From my converstaion with clinic on Instagram:

1. Dr. Couto does 1, or 2 patients per day deppending on the difficulty

2. Just the doctor extracts and implants follicules

 

 

[giegnosiganoe]

3 hours ago, miko said:

To Dr. Couto and Fuexpert clinic: From my converstaion with clinic on Instagram:

1. Dr. Couto does 1, or 2 patients per day deppending on the difficulty

2. Just the doctor extracts and implants follicules

 

 

It's hard to believe that he can do 2 patients in a day if he's doing all of the work

[Portugal25]

10 hours ago, miko said:

To Dr. Couto and Fuexpert clinic: From my converstaion with clinic on Instagram:

1. Dr. Couto does 1, or 2 patients per day deppending on the difficulty

2. Just the doctor extracts and implants follicules

 

 

I recently had a “Doctor Only Surgery” and can safely say It’s not possible for one Doctor  to have 2 patients in one day and do the whole procedure for both. 
The only way for Couto to do the whole surgery of 2 patients on 1 day is if it’s 1 surgery in the morning and another in the afternoon. 

It might very well be the case with Couto. He might only do 2 surgeries in one day if it’s two small cases.

The answer I got on the phone was simply that he may do up to 2 surgeries in one day. 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Portugal25

[Raphael84]

Another important point to consider when discussing doctors who schedule one surgery per day is pricing.

The US market price for “elite” doctors is generally more expensive than the European “elite” for example.

Whilst I think it’s fair to say that any patient would like the idea of being the only patient of the day, this becomes more viable for the doctor when charging $20,000 for a larger daily session.
For us patients, whilst it may be a preference, would it still be our decision to proceed at $20k as a single patient or $10k as the larger of two daily patients? I use these figures purely for example purposes.

Again, it is a personal decision. Each of us are in our own economical situation, but it is also in important factor to consider to understand "the bigger picture".

To reiterate, for me the important thing is that individuals have access to quality surgical options. There will be distinguishable and unique factors for each option/doctor and that is down to each individual to decide what feels right and what is best for themselves.

On 10/23/2020 at 10:28 PM, Melvin-Moderator said:

 

@Raphael84 $4 a graft for Dr. Bisanga is a bargain! What’s the cost for going to Athens? And can you explain the difference?

I did make a previous thread explaining the motivation and model behind BHR Athens.
Pricing in Athens is €2.50 per graft for shared surgery with Dr. Bisanga and another doctor from his team.