Top 5 FUE/FUT docs, 2020 edition

[Portugal25]

9 minutes ago, BDK081522 said:

You're missing the point. It's not $9.60 USD for every case. I received an extra 76 grafts at no charge. That's why mine would equate to $9.60 per graft. Every case is different and as such his prices vary. Some may be price per graft some overall surgical fee. It's all case dependent so I would update the chart with a range of $10-$16 for Dr Konior's FUE prices. That should cover the range he is currently charging. 

@BDK081522 10-16 gives an average of 13USD/graft which is the exact price I considered on my list. Your welcome 😊

[BjornBorg]

A lot of misleading information from @Portugal25 in this thread that should be edited/deleted. @Melvin-Moderator

There is no internet war intent from my side, Portugal25.  I am however forced to respectfully point out that you spoke uninformed in this thread. That happens. But if we let it stand then it is very dangerous both for potential patients and for clinics reputations.

I had a procedure at De Freitas Clinic 6 weeks ago. Let me correct you on the following points:

1. No techs do any implantation. Dr De Freitas does all the slits and all the implantation. He does 3 patients a day but only around 1500 grafts per patient. So the patients that need more are booked for consecutive days. Sometimes they work overtime to get a patient over the line if someone only needs a few more hundred. They then take a slower day the day after.

2. They have 3 tech teams. One lead tech in each team specialize in doing the extractions with motorized punch, the rest sort the grafts and pack the implantation tools.

3. Your price per graft is wrong. The price structure is different for the first 1000 grafts than the rest.

4. If you look at the biggest spanish forum, as @OliverAtom stated, you will find that De Freitas has more real patient reports than anyone else over the course of many years.

My review thread will come within the next few weeks.

[BDK081522]

29 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

@BDK081522 10-16 gives an average of 13USD/graft which is the exact price I considered on my list. Your welcome 😊

Yes, but some prospective patients may be able to afford $10 and not $13. So, if they see $13 they rule out the clinic when in fact for their case it may be $10. For this reason, I actually think the range is more informative than an average. Just my opinion and thank you for putting together the list. It is very helpful 👍🏼

[Portugal25]

36 minutes ago, BjornBorg said:

A lot of misleading information from @Portugal25 in this thread that should be edited/deleted. @Melvin-Moderator

There is no internet war intent from my side, Portugal25.  I am however forced to respectfully point out that you spoke uninformed in this thread. That happens. But if we let it stand then it is very dangerous both for potential patients and for clinics reputations.

I had a procedure at De Freitas Clinic 6 weeks ago. Let me correct you on the following points:

1. No techs do any implantation. Dr De Freitas does all the slits and all the implantation. He does 3 patients a day but only around 1500 grafts per patient. So the patients that need more are booked for consecutive days. Sometimes they work overtime to get a patient over the line if someone only needs a few more hundred. They then take a slower day the day after.

2. They have 3 tech teams. One lead tech in each team specialize in doing the extractions with motorized punch, the rest sort the grafts and pack the implantation tools.

3. Your price per graft is wrong. The price structure is different for the first 1000 grafts than the rest.

4. If you look at the biggest spanish forum, as @OliverAtom stated, you will find that De Freitas has more real patient reports than anyone else over the course of many years.

My review thread will come within the next few weeks.

Please explain how a Doctor can do 3 surgeries of 1500 grafts without the techs being delegated some part of the surgery.
You say Dr. Freitas does all the implanting but it does seem the extraction is done by techs. If this correct I will update the chart to reflect extraction done by techs rather than implantation.

If there’s price structure for the first 1k grafts then the Brazilian lady that I spoke with should have said so instead of wondering why I wanted information about the surgery. 

if you want to share the prices I will update the chart if not I can only use the estimates I got that might not be 100% accurate. 

If you are unhappy because someone finally posted estimated prices, (yes I did state they might be 100% accurate but at least we all get a idea) then ask Melvin to censor this list so we can all go back to sending PM to one and other hoping a good samaritan will share the “state secret” that is the price he paid for his surgery. 

I was actually hoping someone would grab this list and continue to add other surgeons.

Edited October 22, 2020 by Portugal25

[BjornBorg]

1 minute ago, Portugal25 said:

Please explain how a Doctor can do 3 surgeries of 1500 grafts without the techs being delegated some part of the surgery.
You say Dr. Freitas does all the implanting but it does seem the extraction is done by techs. If this correct I will update the chart to reflect extraction done by techs rather than implantation.

If there’s price structure for the first 1k grafts then the Brazilian lady that I spoke with should have said so instead of wondering why I wanted information about the surgery. 

if you want to share the prices I will update the chart if not I can only use the estimates I got that might be 100% accurate. 

If you are unhappy because someone finally posted estimated prices, (yes I did state they might be 100% accurate but at least we all get a idea) then ask Melvin to censor this list so we can all back to sending PM to one and other hoping a good samaritan will share the “state secret” that is the price he paid for his surgery. 

Read my post again. I stated that the lead tech does the extractions.

I will not reveal the price out of respect for the clinic. The price might differ depending on the individual case.

[Portugal25]

1 hour ago, BjornBorg said:

Read my post again. I stated that the lead tech does the extractions.

I will not reveal the price out of respect for the clinic. The price might differ depending on the individual case.

I also respect both clinics where I had my HT’s and I strongly believe I’m doing them a service by informing people the prices just like Eugenix reps do on a regular basis.

Sorry but the whole let’s keep the prices tabu and disclose them to nobody so everyone has to call the clinic 4 times to book a appointment then wait months for the consultation to finally get a quote is ridiculous because the clinic will end up losing patients  to a more open clinic with full disclosure on pricing and technique (which should be the norm in this modern age). 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Portugal25

[servonoparecchicapelli]

17 hours ago, OliverAtom said:

My TOP 5 of 2020
I guess all of us would have a different "roster" picked as our Top 5 Doctors in 2020. I see this choice as when in football you ask someone to pick the best 11 for the National Team... uffff, so many options, so many different teams ... what´s for sure, all of us will always have at least 3 "players" that always remain on that "roster".

At this moment, by 2020, I will for sure have on my "FUE Team" the best three of the moment which in my humble opinion are:
- Dr Freitas & Dr Couto, with the most impressive results in the past 3 years.
- Hasson&Wong for always being a guarantee.

After those 3 well... we have a bunch of great ones:

- Konior
- Lorenzo
- Lupanzula
- Feriduni
- Eugenix
- Bruno Pinto

Who am I missing?

Couto and Freitas are booked until 2022. H&W and Konior are for people like Trump, Bezos etc.

[Melvin- Admin]

10 minutes ago, servonoparecchicapelli said:

Couto and Freitas are booked until 2022. H&W and Konior are for people like Trump, Bezos etc.

What are you talking about? The members on this forum are not billionaires, they simply made a good investment on n themselves by choosing the best. 

[servonoparecchicapelli]

23 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

What are you talking about? The members on this forum are not billionaires, they simply made a good investment on n themselves by choosing the best. 

Sure, but the investments are possible once they have been carried out the basic needs. And not everyone gets to reconcile these two. 

[Curious25]

20 hours ago, OliverAtom said:

My TOP 5 of 2020
I guess all of us would have a different "roster" picked as our Top 5 Doctors in 2020. I see this choice as when in football you ask someone to pick the best 11 for the National Team... uffff, so many options, so many different teams ... what´s for sure, all of us will always have at least 3 "players" that always remain on that "roster".

At this moment, by 2020, I will for sure have on my "FUE Team" the best three of the moment which in my humble opinion are:
- Dr Freitas & Dr Couto, with the most impressive results in the past 3 years.
- Hasson&Wong for always being a guarantee.

After those 3 well... we have a bunch of great ones:

- Konior
- Lorenzo
- Lupanzula
- Feriduni
- Eugenix
- Bruno Pinto

Who am I missing?

Hattingen, Bisanga 

[Curious25]

5 hours ago, BjornBorg said:

A lot of misleading information from @Portugal25 in this thread that should be edited/deleted. @Melvin-Moderator

There is no internet war intent from my side, Portugal25.  I am however forced to respectfully point out that you spoke uninformed in this thread. That happens. But if we let it stand then it is very dangerous both for potential patients and for clinics reputations.

I had a procedure at De Freitas Clinic 6 weeks ago. Let me correct you on the following points:

1. No techs do any implantation. Dr De Freitas does all the slits and all the implantation. He does 3 patients a day but only around 1500 grafts per patient. So the patients that need more are booked for consecutive days. Sometimes they work overtime to get a patient over the line if someone only needs a few more hundred. They then take a slower day the day after.

2. They have 3 tech teams. One lead tech in each team specialize in doing the extractions with motorized punch, the rest sort the grafts and pack the implantation tools.

3. Your price per graft is wrong. The price structure is different for the first 1000 grafts than the rest.

4. If you look at the biggest spanish forum, as @OliverAtom stated, you will find that De Freitas has more real patient reports than anyone else over the course of many years.

My review thread will come within the next few weeks.

Looking forward to your thread. How long did it take you to get booked in? 

[PizzaWolf]

@Portugal25

Info based on my recent consults.

Konior - $12 (FUE) a few months ago.

Bisanga - 5 euros per graft, including tax. You can get rid of the tax if you get a doctor to write a note saying that hairloss has negatively impacted your quality of life.

Ximena Villa - 2 patients per day. Techs do all the extractions. Doctor does all the implantation.

De Freitas - 3.5 Euros per graft.

HLC - 2.7 Euros. Drops to 2.5 if you schedule 3 months out.

Edited October 22, 2020 by PizzaWolf

[Melvin- Admin]

51 minutes ago, PizzaWolf said:

@Portugal25

Info based on my recent consults.

Konior - $12 (FUE) a few months ago.

Bisanga - 5 euros per graft, including tax. You can get rid of the tax if you get a doctor to write a note saying that hairloss has negatively impacted your quality of life.

Ximena Villa - 2 patients per day. Techs do all the extractions. Doctor does all the implantation.

De Freitas - 3.5 Euros per graft.

HLC - 2.7 Euros. Drops to 2.5 if you schedule 3 months out.

I had no idea Dr. Villa does not do any extractions. Are you sure you have the correct information? 

[miko]

22 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

@OliverAtom I only knew about the more Spanish forum and just recently found the older Spanish with a lot more Couto and Freitas case but also a bucket load of Pinto cases. 

Please, could you send me links on some Couto´s results posted by patients? I hardly found one... Thanks a lot.

[PizzaWolf]

26 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I had no idea Dr. Villa does not do any extractions. Are you sure you have the correct information? 

I asked twice just to verify. It was pretty disappointing.

It was also a topic of discussion on recuperarelpelo. The concern was dismissed because someone claimed that Villa's techs were 10 year veterans of Dr. Lorenzo's practice.

Edited October 22, 2020 by PizzaWolf

[Portugal25]

On 10/22/2020 at 2:38 AM, Melvin-Moderator said:

This is actually spot on, let’s not spread misinformation @Portugal25 he charges depending on the complexity of the case. A virtual consultation should be done to understand the cost for your individual case.

@Melvin-Moderator I updated the list to 10-16USD so it can be more accurate.

However, I do believe we would all gain if HRN had a similar list with the Prices, technique, Doctor/Tech Involvement of all their affiliated Doctors.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Portugal25

[karatekid]

16 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

What are you talking about? The members on this forum are not billionaires, they simply made a good investment on n themselves by choosing the best. 

He meant that H&W and Konior are for republicans

[Portugal25]

31 minutes ago, karatekid said:

He meant that H&W and Konior are for republicans

H&W are actually very cheap for their level of quality. Check my list.

Konior prices are geared towards upper class US citizens and foreigners.

The annual net average salary in Portugal is 14.000USD so obviously the average Portuguese can’t afford Konior as it would cost what they make in 1 year. 

For someone that has a annual net income over 80k (if it´s a family men with kids) or 40k (if it`s a single guy without responsabilities) I can see them considering Konior but here in Portugal less than 1% of the population make 80k in 1 year. 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Portugal25

[karatekid]

16 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

H&W are actually very cheap for their level of quality. Check my list.

Konior prices are geared towards upper class US citizens and foreigners.

The annual net average salary in Portugal is 14.000USD so obviously the average Portuguese can’t afford Konior as it would cost what they make in 1 year. 

For someone that has a annual net income over 80k (if it´s a family men with kids) or 40k (if it`s a single guy without responsabilities) I can see them considering Konior but here in Portugal less than 1% of the population make that in 1 year. 

 

It was just a joke, lol

[BjornBorg]

14 hours ago, Curious25 said:

Looking forward to your thread. How long did it take you to get booked in? 

I did consultation in March of 2019. They could get me a date in the summer of 2020 but I opted for September 2020.

[Raphael84]

16 hours ago, PizzaWolf said:

@Portugal25

Info based on my recent consults.

Konior - $12 (FUE) a few months ago.

Bisanga - 5 euros per graft, including tax. You can get rid of the tax if you get a doctor to write a note saying that hairloss has negatively impacted your quality of life.

Ximena Villa - 2 patients per day. Techs do all the extractions. Doctor does all the implantation.

De Freitas - 3.5 Euros per graft.

HLC - 2.7 Euros. Drops to 2.5 if you schedule 3 months out.

Dr. Bisanga charges €4.00 per graft FUE.

[Portugal25]

1 minute ago, Raphael84 said:

Dr. Bisanga charges €4.00 per graft FUE.

Is that the total amount with tax? Regardless if it’s 1000 grafts or 3000?

Please also confirm the price for FUT.

Thanks

Edited October 23, 2020 by Portugal25

[Raphael84]

Dr. Bisanga

3 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

Is that the total amount with tax? Regardless if it’s 1000 grafts or 3000?

Please also confirm the price for FUT.

Thanks

BHR Clinic have not worked with a tiered pricing system for some time.

Surgery with Dr. Bisanga is charged at €4.00 per graft. For patients who may present challenging repair cases for example, pricing would be evaluated and would be relative to the case.

In all honesty, the demand for FUT has dropped dramatically. Obviously that is the field in general as patients prefer to avoid strip scarring, more down time and faster recovery. Of course there is still specific individuals who due to their circumstances, graft demands, previous surgery etc. may find that FUT is the most appropriate technique for them.

I remember when I was researching my surgery 10 - 12 years ago, FUE was available but results did were not as consistent, yield was not as optimal, patient examples were obviously lacking in comparison to FUT and pricing was significantly higher. All in all, not the most attractive package apart from avoiding the strip scar.
As the field has changed dramatically over the last years, elite physicians have taken FUE and its capabilities and consistencies to complete new levels and FUE is deemed as the gold standard when performed correctly.

Some of the reasons why FUE was more expensive was due to the time that the DOCTOR would be with each patient. With the doctor having to personally punch all extraction sites and personally make all recipient sites, this was far more demanding on the doctor in comparison to cutting/excising the strip, suturing the strip and then making recipient sites.
Another was off course the intricacy of punching to optimal transection rates, donor management etc...

Due to FUE not having the demand on the technical team in terms of dissecting the strip and not having to trim so much excess tissue from each graft, the amount of nurses/technicians that are needed for each FUE patient, as opposed to each FUT patient, is less. When a clinic has more than 90% demand for FUE, they naturally have to adapt their clinic to cater for such demands. This generally means that the larger team of technicians that was needed for FUT, is no longer necessary. The flip side to this is that when FUT is performed, a larger team is needed and therefore expenses are higher.

For any doctor who has impressive FUE results, then the interest and demand that they have in FUE surgery obviously grows. As this continues to happen over many years, the percentage of FUE surgery at their clinic also increases. This means that the clinic must adapt to this demand. The conclusion is that in many/most clinics where FUE is in such high demand, FUT is often no longer the more economical option.

[Gasthoerer]

On 10/12/2020 at 6:51 PM, whattheFUE said:

-Hattingen
 

I think I was one of the first to mention Hattingen in here, but Top5 in FUE is IMO overstating. FUT a whole other story. 

[Portugal25]

20 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

I think I was one of the first to mention Hattingen in here, but Top5 in FUE is IMO overstating. FUT a whole other story. 

I totally agree and also have them in my TOP 5 FUT Docs (not FUE).