FUE 3070 grafts Dr Koray Erdogan July 26 2018

[maltesefalcon]

Great result!

But for every good result from ASMED lately, you find there are 10 bad / sub-par results that do not meet this standard. 

[Gasthoerer]

1 hour ago, maltesefalcon said:

Great result!

But for every good result from ASMED lately, you find there are 10 bad / sub-par results that do not meet this standard. 

How do you get to this #numbers?

[maltesefalcon]

54 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

How do you get to this #numbers?

All you need do is review the standard of work from ASMED on here for the past 12-18 months of transplant experiences.

I personally didn't opt for ASMED, I went with a different surgeon in Istanbul - but I did consider ASMED. Now I'm glad I didn't, after reading horror story after horror story on thread after thread in this forum.

True, there appears to be good results interspersed between, but it seems the negative results far outnumber the positive results. 

[CosmoKramer]

2 hours ago, maltesefalcon said:

But for every good result from ASMED lately, you find there are 10 bad / sub-par results that do not meet this standard. 

@nb98’s result for 7 months does look great, although I gotta slightly disagree with your numbers example, after following most all ASMED cases on here for a while now, I think it’s the reverse, more likely for every 10 good/very good/great results on this forum, there may be 1-2 mediocre/sub-par/bad, which I’m sure we all wish a great result for everyone going through such a journey, but the reality is that it’s not guaranteed.

[nb98]

Yeah it’s just the bad results get more attention/views/replies on here and the good ones slip under the radar

[Fozzie]

30 minutes ago, nb98 said:

Yeah it’s just the bad results get more attention/views/replies on here and the good ones slip under the radar

Agree with this

[Kraistoff]

This forum can be a very hostile place. 

This forum has put me on a wild roller coaster of paranoia and sometimes also makes me hostile 

 

[kw877]

19 hours ago, CosmoKramer said:

@nb98’s result for 7 months does look great, although I gotta slightly disagree with your numbers example, after following most all ASMED cases on here for a while now, I think it’s the reverse, more likely for every 10 good/very good/great results on this forum, there may be 1-2 mediocre/sub-par/bad, which I’m sure we all wish a great result for everyone going through such a journey, but the reality is that it’s not guaranteed.

Obviously I sound biased, but i have to say I strongly disagree. I see far more bad results lately from the clinic. Just read back through this thread, a bunch of people have chimed in with their own bad results, I think nb98 is one of the first on my thread to report a positive outcome. I guess we all have different standards and it’s subjective but when a bunch of us look to have had less than 50% growth of the grafts we paid a lot of money for, I couldn’t ever recommend this clinic to anyone in good faith.

Edited July 30, 2019 by kw877

[Gasthoerer]

18 hours ago, kw877 said:

Obviously I sound biased, but i have to say I strongly disagree.

Yes, you obvously are. Which is normal in you situation. We all are by  the way. Just compare the length of the good result threads with the bad results ones.

All data collected by @LordBaldwin (which he has shared several times) show that the majority of results are still on the good side. To suggest it is 1 (good) : 10 (bad) like one has done above does not help the case. A more data driven approach would be better and help to understand if the results of ASMED are more often below par (I belive that they are, as the taing high risks) than other clinics recommended here. But I belive it would also proof how hig the risks for failure are at any (!) clinic.

[LordBaldwin]

1 hour ago, Gasthoerer said:

Yes, you obvously are. Which is normal in you situation. We all are by  the way. Just compare the length of the good result threads with the bad results ones.

All data collected by @LordBaldwin (which he has shared several times) show that the majority of results are still on the good side. To suggest it is 1 (good) : 10 (bad) like one has done above does not help the case. A more data driven approach would be better and help to understand if the results of ASMED are more often below par (I belive that they are, as the taing high risks) than other clinics recommended here. But I belive it would also proof how hig the risks for failure are at any (!) clinic.

Right.  This isn't binary (i.e., good vs. bad)...there's a whole spectrum of possible outcomes.  Also, I should mention that it's a bit tough to compare ASMED's success rate with that of other clinics, since many other clinics have far fewer posted results (i.e., much smaller sample sizes).  ASMED is one of the few with enough posted results to actually take a statistical approach.  That being said, a random patient still has about a 77% chance (based only on posted results from patients who had surgery between Oct 2016 and December 2018) of having a result at 12 months that is somewhere between "good" and "great" at ASMED. I agree that 23% mediocre to poor is not trivial, but there's some early evidence that the 2019 results are improved (though it's still a bit too early to say, in most cases).

[LordBaldwin]

On 7/29/2019 at 1:24 PM, maltesefalcon said:

Great result!

But for every good result from ASMED lately, you find there are 10 bad / sub-par results that do not meet this standard. 

Respectfully, that number is completely wrong.

Here are some of the people who have had "good" to "great" results on this forum from October 2016 through December 2018 (the time period in question):

Username	Sugery Date	CurrentRating (1 through 4)	Months	Complete?
Jonyny	Oct-16	3	34	YES
JustJax	Oct-16	3	34	YES
Scotty9107	Oct-16	3	34	YES
Hamburger	Nov-16	3	33	YES
DEB1982	Dec-16	4	31	YES
Alexmczane26575	Feb-17	4	30	YES
Ponchik	Feb-17	3	30	YES
Vainism	Feb-17	4	30	YES
Ediee	Mar-17	4	29	YES
JeanLDD	Apr-17	4	28	YES
Handski	May-17	3	27	YES
Bloodshoteyes	Jul-17	3	25	YES
HairDew	Jul-17	3	25	YES
HG1	Oct-17	4	22	YES
Sk78	Oct-17	4	22	YES
Nathd911	Nov-17	3	21	YES
Panos1982	Nov-17	4	21	YES
Vchorro	Nov-17	4	21	YES
Shuriken	Dec-17	3	20	YES
Astaldo	Jan-18	3	19	YES
Jammerz	Mar-18	4	17	YES
Pancake	Mar-18	3	17	YES
Highlander6	Apr-18	4	16	YES
Artofeden	May-18	4	15	YES
CosmoKramer	Jun-18	4	14	YES
Cali101	Jul-18	3	13	YES
Redlord	Jul-18	4	13	YES
Grantleebuffalo	Aug-18	3	12	NO
SomeLad55	Aug-18	4	12	NO
Kraistoff	Sep-18	3	11	NO
Heckenpenner	Oct-18	3	10	NO
Markymarc123	Nov-18	3	9	NO
Nb98	Nov-18	4	9	NO
LordBaldwin	Dec-18	3	8	NO

I won't list the results I consider "subpar" (i.e., poor or mediocre) without the permission of those individuals.  Suffice it to say that there are fewer (13, only 8 of which are complete).  Even if you doubt my ratings, you can check these threads yourselves and draw your own conclusions.

The total number of patient posted results within the specified time frame, on this forum, was 47, 35 of which are complete (i.e., more than 12 months out from surgery).  The total percent good or great (out of everyone, including incompletes) was 72.3%.  The percent good or great out of the list of patients with complete results was 77.1%.  Unhappy patients tend to be much more vocal, and, as alluded to above, have much longer threads that draw more attention.  

Additionally, here is an older post I made with an analysis covering an earlier span of time (back when I did this in late 2018 to determine my own chances of success); the relevant post is on the second page, December 1st:

Edited July 31, 2019 by LordBaldwin
Additional detail

[LordBaldwin]

1 hour ago, LordBaldwin said:

Respectfully, that number is completely wrong.

Here are some of the people who have had "good" to "great" results on this forum from October 2016 through December 2018 (the time period in question):

Username	Sugery Date	CurrentRating (1 through 4)	Months	Complete?
Jonyny	Oct-16	3	34	YES
JustJax	Oct-16	3	34	YES
Scotty9107	Oct-16	3	34	YES
Hamburger	Nov-16	3	33	YES
DEB1982	Dec-16	4	31	YES
Alexmczane26575	Feb-17	4	30	YES
Ponchik	Feb-17	3	30	YES
Vainism	Feb-17	4	30	YES
Ediee	Mar-17	4	29	YES
JeanLDD	Apr-17	4	28	YES
Handski	May-17	3	27	YES
Bloodshoteyes	Jul-17	3	25	YES
HairDew	Jul-17	3	25	YES
HG1	Oct-17	4	22	YES
Sk78	Oct-17	4	22	YES
Nathd911	Nov-17	3	21	YES
Panos1982	Nov-17	4	21	YES
Vchorro	Nov-17	4	21	YES
Shuriken	Dec-17	3	20	YES
Astaldo	Jan-18	3	19	YES
Jammerz	Mar-18	4	17	YES
Pancake	Mar-18	3	17	YES
Highlander6	Apr-18	4	16	YES
Artofeden	May-18	4	15	YES
CosmoKramer	Jun-18	4	14	YES
Cali101	Jul-18	3	13	YES
Redlord	Jul-18	4	13	YES
Grantleebuffalo	Aug-18	3	12	NO
SomeLad55	Aug-18	4	12	NO
Kraistoff	Sep-18	3	11	NO
Heckenpenner	Oct-18	3	10	NO
Markymarc123	Nov-18	3	9	NO
Nb98	Nov-18	4	9	NO
LordBaldwin	Dec-18	3	8	NO

I won't list the results I consider "subpar" (i.e., poor or mediocre) without the permission of those individuals.  Suffice it to say that there are fewer (13, only 8 of which are complete).  Even if you doubt my ratings, you can check these threads yourselves and draw your own conclusions.

The total number of patient posted results within the specified time frame, on this forum, was 47, 35 of which are complete (i.e., more than 12 months out from surgery).  The total percent good or great (out of everyone, including incompletes) was 72.3%.  The percent good or great out of the list of patients with complete results was 77.1%.  Unhappy patients tend to be much more vocal, and, as alluded to above, have much longer threads that draw more attention.  

Additionally, here is an older post I made with an analysis covering an earlier span of time (back when I did this in late 2018 to determine my own chances of success); the relevant post is on the second page, December 1st:

And just to go a little further, I've counted six patient posted results on this forum from people who had surgeries in 2019 at ASMED (hairlossguy1212, TempleRunner, MrBolo, zz333, JPEGMAFIA, and Craig2412).  Out of these six, three are *already* good or great, and three are too early to tell.  Out of the three that are too early to tell, two of them appear to only be a month out from surgery.  The one that isn't is 5 months out from surgery and appears to be on track.

[Kraistoff]

14 minutes ago, LordBaldwin said:

And just to go a little further, I've counted six patient posted results on this forum from people who had surgeries in 2019 at ASMED (hairlossguy1212, TempleRunner, MrBolo, zz333, JPEGMAFIA, and Craig2412).  Out of these six, three are *already* good or great, and three are too early to tell.  Out of the three that are too early to tell, two of them appear to only be a month out from surgery.  The one that isn't is 5 months out from surgery and appears to be on track.

I’m thrilled you gave me a 3 

 

here’s a photo to celebrate my score , pushing for that 4 

 

sorry for invading your thread OP

[LordBaldwin]

8 minutes ago, Kraistoff said:

I’m thrilled you gave me a 3 

 

here’s a photo to celebrate my score , pushing for that 4 

 

sorry for invading your thread OP

Haha, well, I was trying to take your own opinion of the area behind the hairline into account, but most of your recent pics look pretty damn good, IMO.

[Kraistoff]

Thanks for posting a list of the good results.

this forum has been full of negative comments making reference to the poor results only and pretty much ignoring the good results. 

Well done 

[Craig2412]

39 minutes ago, LordBaldwin said:

And just to go a little further, I've counted six patient posted results on this forum from people who had surgeries in 2019 at ASMED (hairlossguy1212, TempleRunner, MrBolo, zz333, JPEGMAFIA, and Craig2412).  Out of these six, three are *already* good or great, and three are too early to tell.  Out of the three that are too early to tell, two of them appear to only be a month out from surgery.  The one that isn't is 5 months out from surgery and appears to be on track.

Thanks @LordBaldwin for sharing your research again with us. Out of interest what did you have my result down as so far? I reach the 5 month mark this Sunday.

[LordBaldwin]

46 minutes ago, Craig2412 said:

Thanks @LordBaldwin for sharing your research again with us. Out of interest what did you have my result down as so far? I reach the 5 month mark this Sunday.

No problem.  Your pics were a bit dark, and it would be good to see them in higher lighting conditions as well, but I had you down as a 3 so far, with strong potential to become a 4 (since, right now, you're only about 32% of the way to your final result).

Here's where you are, approximately:

Date of Surgery	Speed of Growth	Day Display	Month Display	Predicted Current % Complete
3/4/2019	Normal	149	4.9	32

Edited July 31, 2019 by LordBaldwin
Additional detail and typo correction

[Melvin- Admin]

@LordBaldwin

man thank you so much for posting this, I think that this forum is a reflection of the internet. Did you know only 10% of those who use Twitter actually post, so without a doubt it’s skewed. Unfortunately, those who are unhappy bark the loudest and rightfully so, but this may skew potential patients in to believing they are the majority instead of the minority. 

[kw877]

Well no amount of statistics is gonna get me my lost grafts back lol all I can share is me experience and I look like shit. Congrats to those who don’t. Like I said I may be biased from my botched job, but I know more people have reached out to me with similar bad results than those who have been happy. I can only say what I see and I’d like to believe I’m being fair. 

can anyone realistically say my result was good? For the amount of grafts I had? Not even close.

I’m probably not gonna post anymore tbh. I’ve posted my final results, it’s not changed a bit in months and I’m 13 months post op. 

If people are ok going to a clinic and being 1 of 9 patients on any given day, utilizing a massive amount of grafts and still ending up with a very low yield, then using even more for a second “touch up” when half of them don’t take, have at it.

There’s only one person who benefits from having so many patients per day, each have a monster number of grafts estimated for their surgery. Hint, it isn’t you. 

I advise prospective patients to pay close attention to all the results good and bad from the last 2 years. Don’t bother looking any further back because that model no longer exists. Make your decision based on that, if the good results truly outweigh the bad, good. I personally don’t think they do after having so many people reach out to me with similar bad results. But make your own decision, look at everything you can find. 

Hope it all works out for you all!

Edited July 31, 2019 by kw877

[LordBaldwin]

4 hours ago, kw877 said:

Well no amount of statistics is gonna get me my lost grafts back lol all I can share is me experience and I look like shit. Congrats to those who don’t. Like I said I may be biased from my botched job, but I know more people have reached out to me with similar bad results than those who have been happy. I can only say what I see and I’d like to believe I’m being fair. 

can anyone realistically say my result was good? For the amount of grafts I had? Not even close.

I’m probably not gonna post anymore tbh. I’ve posted my final results, it’s not changed a bit in months and I’m 13 months post op. 

If people are ok going to a clinic and being 1 of 9 patients on any given day, utilizing a massive amount of grafts and still ending up with a very low yield, then using even more for a second “touch up” when half of them don’t take, have at it.

There’s only one person who benefits from having so many patients per day, each have a monster number of grafts estimated for their surgery. Hint, it isn’t you. 

I advise prospective patients to pay close attention to all the results good and bad from the last 2 years. Don’t bother looking any further back because that model no longer exists. Make your decision based on that, if the good results truly outweigh the bad, good. I personally don’t think they do after having so many people reach out to me with similar bad results. But make your own decision, look at everything you can find. 

Hope it all works out for you all!

Yeah, I hear you, dude, and I'm really sorry to hear that you didn't get the result you wanted.  That really sucks.  I know stats are of no consolation to a person who finds himself in the unlucky minority (and I know it's probably irritating to hear that as well). 

As far any individual person is concerned, the only result that will really matter to them (especially if they've already had surgery) is their own.  That being said, the forum is not just here for us to vent, tell our stories, and ask for tips/opinions, but also to give detailed and useful information to those who will take their turns after us (or those who are thinking about it).  From that perspective, it's important to be as accurate as possible, and to give them as clear a picture as we can of what their options are.  While I'm sure you may have gotten a number of personal messages from people who can relate to your situation (which is expected), anecdotes don't really make for good evidence; indeed, these anecdotes are likely heavily tilted as a result of self selection bias (in other words, people who feel the same way as you do are more likely to try to seek you out).  I would agree that prospective new patients should pay attention to all of the results, including the most recent ones -- this is what I've tried to help them do with some of my posts.

I know, personally, when I was trying to make a decision, I took a bunch of factors into account -- schedule, cost, location, safety, record of results, etc.  Since this type of surgery is really expensive (especially if one were to elect to do this in North America), cost and results are probably weighted the most heavily in many people's decision making processes.  I, personally, was willing to accept a bit more risk by going to Turkey because it meant paying a third of what I'd need to pay otherwise.  I wasn't willing to accept the level of risk that would be incurred by going to Cinik, Maral, Turkeyana, or another clinic like this, as I felt that that risk would be substantially higher than the one incurred by choosing ASMED; also, I wasn't willing to accept the wait period of Cuoto. 

If we're being honest, here, while results are very important, and while some surgeons, like Konoir and maybe H&W, might have slightly higher success rates, the costs involved are also astronomical.  For those of us who are rich, it probably wouldn't matter....but I think it's safe to say that most of us are not.  Also, if the clinic is willing to make a 90% regrowth guarantee, I think that counts for something as well (though I understand your concern about limited donor grafts).  It's not a simple decision to make, and I'll admit the decision was easier when his success rate was higher (it's dropped between 4 and 6.5% since I did my math back in December of last year, after taking into account surgeries from the middle of 2018, but it appears to be recovering a bit in 2019).

[s14a]

On 7/31/2019 at 1:56 PM, LordBaldwin said:

Respectfully, that number is completely wrong.

Here are some of the people who have had "good" to "great" results on this forum from October 2016 through December 2018 (the time period in question):

Username	Sugery Date	CurrentRating (1 through 4)	Months	Complete?
Jonyny	Oct-16	3	34	YES
JustJax	Oct-16	3	34	YES
Scotty9107	Oct-16	3	34	YES
Hamburger	Nov-16	3	33	YES
DEB1982	Dec-16	4	31	YES
Alexmczane26575	Feb-17	4	30	YES
Ponchik	Feb-17	3	30	YES
Vainism	Feb-17	4	30	YES
Ediee	Mar-17	4	29	YES
JeanLDD	Apr-17	4	28	YES
Handski	May-17	3	27	YES
Bloodshoteyes	Jul-17	3	25	YES
HairDew	Jul-17	3	25	YES
HG1	Oct-17	4	22	YES
Sk78	Oct-17	4	22	YES
Nathd911	Nov-17	3	21	YES
Panos1982	Nov-17	4	21	YES
Vchorro	Nov-17	4	21	YES
Shuriken	Dec-17	3	20	YES
Astaldo	Jan-18	3	19	YES
Jammerz	Mar-18	4	17	YES
Pancake	Mar-18	3	17	YES
Highlander6	Apr-18	4	16	YES
Artofeden	May-18	4	15	YES
CosmoKramer	Jun-18	4	14	YES
Cali101	Jul-18	3	13	YES
Redlord	Jul-18	4	13	YES
Grantleebuffalo	Aug-18	3	12	NO
SomeLad55	Aug-18	4	12	NO
Kraistoff	Sep-18	3	11	NO
Heckenpenner	Oct-18	3	10	NO
Markymarc123	Nov-18	3	9	NO
Nb98	Nov-18	4	9	NO
LordBaldwin	Dec-18	3	8	NO

I won't list the results I consider "subpar" (i.e., poor or mediocre) without the permission of those individuals.  Suffice it to say that there are fewer (13, only 8 of which are complete).  Even if you doubt my ratings, you can check these threads yourselves and draw your own conclusions.

The total number of patient posted results within the specified time frame, on this forum, was 47, 35 of which are complete (i.e., more than 12 months out from surgery).  The total percent good or great (out of everyone, including incompletes) was 72.3%.  The percent good or great out of the list of patients with complete results was 77.1%.  Unhappy patients tend to be much more vocal, and, as alluded to above, have much longer threads that draw more attention.  

Additionally, here is an older post I made with an analysis covering an earlier span of time (back when I did this in late 2018 to determine my own chances of success); the relevant post is on the second page, December 1st:

Are you saying you've only included people who have given permission to be included? Why not include every patient and if you feel so bothered about using their name then change it slightly.

Seems silly to not include all patients regardless of their result.

[s14a]

On 7/24/2019 at 11:39 AM, FarsanUk said:

So guys a while back asmed posted something on their Instagram story video which they later removed as I screen shot it and posted on here on another thread. Just to prove the potential of many surgeries they have check out that screen shot below. You can see it shows 9 surgery rooms and 7 of them are occupied at that point in time. They are all separate rooms if you zoom it says room 1 2 3 etc... 

 

Still can't get over this.

@LordBaldwinIf you're researching Erdogan's work it would be good to find out if each patient knew how little input Erdogan would be having on their surgery.

Edited August 1, 2019 by s14a

[s14a]

22 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

@LordBaldwin

man thank you so much for posting this, I think that this forum is a reflection of the internet. Did you know only 10% of those who use Twitter actually post, so without a doubt it’s skewed. Unfortunately, those who are unhappy bark the loudest and rightfully so, but this may skew potential patients in to believing they are the majority instead of the minority. 

And how many of his patients actually know about or post this site? There will be thousands of patients out there, both good and bad who won't share results.

[LordBaldwin]

1 hour ago, s14a said:

Are you saying you've only included people who have given permission to be included? Why not include every patient and if you feel so bothered about using their name then change it slightly.

Seems silly to not include all patients regardless of their result.

No, I'm saying that I only called out people I had ranked as 3s or 4s (good or great).  I didn't want to call out names of people who were ranked lower without their permission to do so; I know I'd be annoyed if someone judged my results negatively here, for everyone to see, without asking me first for my opinion and permission.  I included real names for credibility (so you could go and judge their results for yourself if you doubt my ratings).  If I made up aliases for the 1s and 2s, it would defeat the purpose.

[LordBaldwin]

1 hour ago, s14a said:

And how many of his patients actually know about or post this site? There will be thousands of patients out there, both good and bad who won't share results.

And that's irrelevant.  A sample being examined is almost always smaller than the total population.