WARNING, if considering Dr Hakan Doganay, read this first

[Cerrone60]

its amazing how much research paleocapa89 has done on Dr Hakan Doganay in fact you could even say paleocapa89 and his buddies have been on a crusade. When it came to his hair transplant he says he was uneducated and gone into it with his eyes shut , who talking BS now

I remember reading about some of the members commenting on this thread that they were offered a full refund or a additional procedure for free by the clinic . All I’m saying this is not the best clinic on the market but its no where as bad as its being made out here.

[paleocapa89]

Dear Cerrone60

 

Yes, I have been doing heavy research now that I should have done earlier. I have the time, since I can not leave the house looking like this. Yes I was uneducated, if I wasn't I would not let them touch my scalp. Or are you trying to say that I knowingly let them mess up my head, so I can come to this forum and "go on a crusade"?

 

By the way I am not "on a crusade" I am merely stating facts and warn people not to commit the same mistakes that I did. And by the way, giving a refund or offering free procedure to correct the mistakes should not be considered generous but the bare minimum. Should those people feel obliged because they got their money back after they got messed up? Did they get their grafts back as well?

 

This is the second time you attack me and stand up for the clinic. Everyday people have no reason to do that so at this point I have to ask you: do you have a vested interest in defending this clinic?

[Cerrone60]

Dear paleocapa89

 

To put your mind at ease I have no vested interest in this clinic besides having my procedure there. Just

feel you're jumping the gun making all sorts of claims when your only four months into your OP.

 

But I could also ask you do you have a vested interest in ruining the reputation of this clinic are you being paid by a competitor see want I mean so easy to accuse someone without any hard facts.

 

By the way I think you should do some research and find out how many clinics actually offer a refund or additional procedure if the patience not happy.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Cerrone60

[paleocapa89]

Dear Cerrone60

 

Again, please do not try to belittle my claims and the other dissatisfied ex-patients claims. Anything I claim I back up with evidence. While we haven't even seen a pictures of you or your procedure. If you are indeed an expatient then please open a thread and share your story there

 

By the way, even if I was a "paid accuser" as you put it, you still would have no reason to defend a clinic you have no affiliation with. Let's say yesterday I bought something from Walmart and today the competitor attacks the company. Do I feel the need to defend them? No I do not. But to put you mind at ease, I am not a "paid accuser" I am a real ex-patient and I am ready to be scrutinized anytime.

 

By the way I think you should do some research and find out how many clinics actually offer a refund or additional procedure if the patience not happy.

 

Again, why do you feel the need to defend this clinic? I don't need to do a research, as I stated, it should be the bare minimum. Can you answer my question: Should those people feel obliged because they got their money back after they got messed up? Did they get their grafts back as well? Did their scars disappear?

[Cerrone60]

You can’t compare Walmart with a hair transplant clinic that’s just ridicules

maybe to your local doctor yes and there I think you would defend them.

 

Some patients just have such a huge expectations, which are never going to be met I can bet you there was some growth in all of these patients.

If at 8 month you’ve had very little growth then I will take a different view until than

i've given this thread to much oxygen, I’m gonna let you carry on with your one man crusade.

[paleocapa89]

Broken English, defending the clinic, evading questions, BS answers. Trying to belittle the claims of ex-patients, trying to shift the blame to the patients. Typical traits of Dr Hakan Doganay's rep's communication

 

Some patients just have such a huge expectations, which are never going to be met

 

For me this is a dead giveaway. Only someone from the other side (doctor or rep) would say something like this and call the people patients.

Edited October 27, 2015 by paleocapa89

[Spidey]

If you go in for any kind of surgery, you cannot go in eyes shut.. and if you did, it is your own fault. I don't think anyone needs to be told that their hairloss will keep progressing in the future, after the HT, unless they are a slick NW6-7.. If you are a NW 2+ it is common sense that your hair loss will keep going, some faster than others. If your primary complaint is that you weren't told that, give your head a shake.

[paleocapa89]

Dear Spidey

 

I can only repeat myself. I was uneducated. I indeed went in with my "eyes shut" did I deserve to not be informed properly? I don't believe so. Do you think everybody should arrive to every doctor with extensive knowledge that is outside of their profession? Isn't that why we are paying doctors so we do not need to study the same things that they do? To be able to put our trust in them?

 

I didn't arrive to Dr Hakan Doganay to select the "2500 graft to the front" menu item from his list but to get him assess my current hair loss and check my eligibility for a hair transplant. That's not what happened.

 

I have read your posting history and to me it seem you have a surprisingly deep knowledge about hair transplants and everything that is in connection with them. You registered recently, rarely ask any questions, but you are not afraid to give your piece of mind to anybody that is on this forum, even when that means shifting the blame to the patient.

 

Can I kindly ask you why do you feel the need for doing that? There are some really shady things about Dr Hakan Doganay mentioned in this thread with evidence provided but you disregarded that completely and only feel the need to point your fingers at me and shift the blame to me.

[LondonHTseeker]

Do you really think you're going to get a refund now? You go full out on the reputation-trashing assault and essentially hold him to ransom, then act like a refund is guaranteed. I'd be amazed if he gave you a refund after the business you've inevitably cost him.

 

Your reasoning isn't as objective as you seem to believe, either. So you got a load of grafts into the front and you're going to be losing a lot more hair. I agree it's poor conduct by the doctor, but your response has been less than reasonable: trash and pick apart every minute detail you can possibly think of (before even giving your HT a chance to grow). I could do the same with my HT experiences but it's not worth it. Surgery is rarely as smooth an experience as we'd like. The donor area does look over-harvested. I guess you'll either need to get SMP or grow your hair a bit longer. In my opinion your biggest mistake, which you are still making, is in not taking Propecia or at least giving it a very good try.

 

The rep-affiliated posting does look suspicious and you are probably right. But that kind of thing is common. Feller had several New York 'cheerleaders' suddenly appear a few weeks ago (Joesocks, bunsenburner etc.), although they seem to have vanished for the moment. Who knows how genuine they are. They may be, but the way they appeared and the things they said suggested otherwise - to me, anyway.

Edited October 28, 2015 by LondonHTseeker

[paleocapa89]

Dear LondonHTSeeker

 

I have never said anything about wanting a refund. I only talked about it in general, when people were defending the clinic by stating how generous they are by giving people refunds after botched procedures. I think we can all agree that a refund will not compensate anyone for their suffering and their lost grafts. And who knows, I might have the best regrowth and would not be eligible for a refund anyway.

 

I only shared my experience after getting fed up with the BS answers of the clinic. Are you saying that people should keep their mouth shut so they might get a refund? I think that would be ethically wrong.

 

In terms of not being totally objective and being too harsh too soon, you might be right. After all I am heavily influenced emotionally, that is why I try to back up everything I claim and reason objectively. I do ask everybody to point out where I am wrong, and I can be persuaded. To show what I mean, I edited my first post in those claims that I admitted I can not substantiate. However this whole thing turns out, I promised I will document it to the end.

Edited October 27, 2015 by paleocapa89

[Arrie]

Paleo,

 

First let me say that I wish you the best as i can see that this scenario has slowly consumed your life. I hope that you are able to first and foremost get you life in order and become happy again. Its saddens me to hear you state that "you cant go out looking like this" and such. Don't let this cancer/depression eat you from the inside out...

 

With that being said I do not believe you are in the worst situation, as we all said, you have some months of hopeful growth ahead. I do believe that Dr. Dogonay loading up your hairline with 2500 grafts and then stating you only have 2000 grafts left for the rest of your hairloss is more than disturbing... All of you can say paleo should of been educated more or done more research and I think we all agree on that (even paleo has acknowledged this), but the doctors long term plan is more than suspect...

 

The multiple accounts with the same ip address is shady and I hope this site addresses the situation. If the moderators/site doe not address this situations with this clinic, its very very hard to see this site being credible, if all the accusations are true about this doc/clinic.

 

With all that being said I want to thank you paleo for you time and research, and like i sad man, get better... Go outside be happy you can walk talk and be healthy. There are people in much worse situations that are being fed through tubes or terminally ill... Be happy, take care

[Bart83]

Paleo,

 

I sympathize alot with you and it is obvious you are getting attacked by a lot of fake accounts that dont behave or write like former patients as they claime. They tell you to wait it out as if that changes anything about your situation not beeing a candidate for a HT in the first place. Pretty stupid and most people that read through your thread recognize that. So you shouldnt really paying attention to them.

 

To what you should pay attention is your own state of mind. I can assure you that I was in a similar situation, depressed, didnt leave the house and felt miserable. I had a bad transplant with a coalition doc on this site and he was and is probably top 3. But nevertheless I got a sparse and unnatural looking transplant with 2 hair grafts in my hairline and a misplaced hairline on top. What I regret most is not coming forward about it on this forum and help other hair loss suferers by telling my story and letting them learn from my experience. This is why I respect you and what you are doing and I hope as many people as possible read this thread and stay away from a doc that probably performed good transplants in the past but has now transformed to a profit maximizing machinery that does not perform transplants with the necessary attention.

 

So when all your disappointment and anger has settled you have to find a way out of your actual situation. And believe me there always is a way out. Especially when one is as clever and sharp as you are. Sometimes it is not a short way out and in your case it is maybe a combination of laser hair removal and SMP.

 

Best of Luck buddy!

[LondonHTseeker]

Dear LondonHTSeeker

 

I have never said anything about wanting a refund. I only talked about it in general, when people were defending the clinic by stating how generous they are by giving people refunds after botched procedures. I think we can all agree that a refund will not compensate anyone for their suffering and their lost grafts. And who knows, I might have the best regrowth and would not be eligible for a refund anyway.

 

I only shared my experience after getting fed up with the BS answers of the clinic. Are you saying that people should keep their mouth shut so they might get a refund? I think that would be ethically wrong.

 

In terms of not being totally objective and being too harsh too soon, you might be right. After all I am heavily influenced emotionally, that is why I try to back up everything I claim and reason objectively. I do ask everybody to point out where I am wrong, and I can be persuaded. To show what I mean, I edited my first post in those claims that I admitted I can not substantiate. However this whole thing turns out, I promised I will document it to the end.

 

BTW I meant your mistake now is in not taking Propecia, not Prozac, lol. I'll correct that.

 

I'm ambivalent about your approach. I agree that some of the criticisms you make are concerning. I just think your argument would have been better made if you had focused on the important things and ignored the petty ones - such as the techs dropping something during the operation, and a couple of stray grafts sitting on your head in the photograph.

 

So far as ethics are concerned, it's not quite as simple here as a choice between keeping your mouth shut or doing the 'right thing' and spilling the beans. Your hair could still grow well, in which case the surgery wasn't as bad as you have thus far portrayed it to be with many of your criticisms of the doc and his team.

 

Anyway, I agree, he shouldn't have used up so many grafts to go so low with your hairline when you aren't prepared to take Propecia. And the rep-affiliated posts are shady.

[Petchski]

Regardless of Paleos haste in getting a HT and not waiting for his results before complaining, the real issue here is the shear unprofessionalism of this clinic, advising a FUE patient that he will have to keep his at 1.5cm long to conver scar tissue? WTF? Absolute nonsense spoken by someone with obvious lack of knowledge.

 

I also don't understand how Paelo can only have a donor of 4500 grafts in total while having a virgin donor before having the 2500 grafts procedure, leaving him with 2000 grafts left in the bank. I've never heard of any one having so few grafts in their donor region, and this does not make sense to me.

 

To believe that ALL clinics engage in fake advertising and operate 'Shill' accounts on forums to hoodwink prospective patients is completely false. Top clinics do not need to sink to these low and devious methods, because their work speaks for itself, word gets out, there are patient blogs and happy patients with photos detailing their experience, sometimes in great detail, and aside from all this they are ethical, so never have any need to create false testimonies.

 

The fact that this clinic does is a MASSIVE RED FLAG

[Melvin- Admin]

 

So when all your disappointment and anger has settled you have to find a way out of your actual situation. And believe me there always is a way out. Especially when one is as clever and sharp as you are. Sometimes it is not a short way out and in your case it is maybe a combination of laser hair removal and SMP.

 

Best of Luck buddy!

 

I agree 100% paleo at this point there's no use in crying over spilt milk, what's done is done,the same way you decided to be proactive and combat hairloss, is the same way you need to approach your next step in helping your situation. Do you take minoxidil? It's better than nothing, it's maintained my hair fairly well over the past few years. I still think you have enough grafts to place that would look good in the years to come even if you go Norwood 6.

[paleocapa89]

Dear all,

 

thank you for your support and for the constructive criticism as well. I only want to clarify one thing though. Dr. Hakan Doganay never measured or said anything about my donor capacity. He quoted me 2500 to the front without this information. When I had concerns about my badly looking recipient area I visited an other local IAHRS HT surgeon for an examination. At that time I asked him to check my donor and he was the one who told me I can probably get away with 2000 more. I believe I had shock loss - and still have - so this number might go up and I will check it after 12 month. Maybe it also depends on how conservative the doctor is. But I fear even if I have 3000 left in the bank that will be still not enough to cover for my clear future pattern of balding.

 

Anyway, what's done is done, you are right I need to focus on the future and not let this situation wear me down.

[Dolph1969]

Paleo,

 

I've looked at your pictures and think you're going to be ok. Wait until everything starts growing out. if the hairline fills in, you'll have a good framing of the face and can keep the hair shorter at the sides. I think psychologically, you're putting yourself into a bad place fixating on this. Try to relax and see how things develop.

[paleocapa89]

Just out of curiosity:

 

In theory, if someone pays for 2500 grafts and the techs start harvesting and for example they transect every second graft they extract, what will they do, what is the protocol?

 

1: harvest 5000 grafts so there will be 2500 viable grafts?

2: implant 1250 grafts?

3: implant the 1250 transected grafts and 1250 viable grafts?

[ZeoRanger]

I don't think they can spot transected grafts during surgery given the intense time pressure. Most will implant whatever they extracted. Provided the doctor cut enough recipient holes.

 

I also read that transected grafts still may grow depending on the severity of the damage.

[paleocapa89]

Just adding a new case of Dr Hakan Doganay from an italian forum:

 

http://bellicapelli.forumfree.it/?t=69018345

 

In case the link gets removed, it is patient mezzalu79 from the bellicapelli italian forum.

 

Although I do not speak italian, with the help of google translate I found disturbing similarities to HTN expatients:

- techs doing the extraction although the patient specifically asked for the doctor to do it

- overharvesting the donor area

- minimal growth after 12 months

 

the patient chose not to go back for a free surgery and ultimately got a refund. Maybe someone who speaks italian could translate the case better.

 

 

Updating my case as well: approaching to 5th month and experiencing very minimal regrowth.

[paleocapa89]

Just adding a new case of Dr Hakan Doganay from an italian forum:

 

http://bellicapelli.forumfree.it/?t=69018345

 

In case the link gets removed, it is patient mezzalu79 from the bellicapelli italian forum.

 

Although I do not speak italian, with the help of google translate I found disturbing similarities to other expatients:

- techs doing the extraction although the patient states he specifically asked for the doctor to do it

- overharvesting the donor area

- minimal growth after 12 months

 

the patient chose not to go back for a free surgery and ultimately got a refund. Maybe someone who speaks italian could translate the case better.

 

 

Updating my case as well: approaching to 5th month and experiencing very minimal regrowth.

Edited October 31, 2015 by paleocapa89

[Bill - Seemiller]

Paleo,

 

While I understand your concerns about this doctor in general, I think it would be more appropriate to stick to presenting your own updates rather than linking to other patients on other discussion forums. We are already taking serious consideration to discontinuing his recommendation given all of the express concerns. But I do believe that patients should be responsible for making their own updates rather than having somebody else do it for them.

 

That said, you are more than welcome to send me a private message at any point with a link to cases that you feel are concerning and worth evaluating. In turn, we can then bring the concern to the clinics attention and give them a chance to respond.

 

Thanks

 

Bill

[wylie]

Good advice Bill, and I appreciate your interest in this case.

 

Paleo, you have presented enough evidence already, nobody speaks Italian on your thread, so posting a link to an Italian speaking forum and expecting people to translate to English is silly. You should now focus on your own situation, and discuss it, and provide photos of your present state, if you want your thread to stay active.

[paleocapa89]

Dear Bill and wylie,

 

I do not entirely understand why is it appropriate when I link other patients' results from this website, but it is not when I do the same from other forums. All I am trying to do here is accumulate knowledge in one place. I do not know if anyone speak italian or not, and I don't expect anyone to translate it but if someone is interested he can read the forum himself.

 

Searching and screening information is very hard and time consuming, especially when the relevant information is scattered around several forums. But when the adequate amount of information is gathered in one place one will start to see patterns. I agree it should not be my responsibility to post in the name of other patients, but whose responsibility is it? As I see, if I didn't post the many cases of dissatisfied expatients in the first place, we would not be here today.

 

In my opinion the more the information, the better the choices we can make and this is the aim of this forum right? To educate people and help them make good choices.

[laughnlearn]

paleo, I speak italian and found the link very helpful. I am in the process of deciding on a FUE doctor and had my list narrowed to 3 docs, including Doganay. thx again.