Senior Member esrec Posted October 22, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 can we narrow the scope here? Its impossible to address more than 2-3 legitimate concerns. what is your biggest gripe? It feels all over the place. Donor area looks fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member paleocapa89 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 It is actually longer than zero guard and yes, it may still improve. No, did not think that I will have no scars at all however hearing from the clinic after the procedure that one should wear its hair at least 1-1,5 cm long is upsetting to say at least.. My main concerns are the areas where - in my opinion - they didn't really put in effort to scatter the extraction sites and they just took grafts in lines or took a bunch of grafts from the same place making some areas very noticeable. regarding my donor area my biggest concern is the middle of the back of my head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member esrec Posted October 22, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 Where do you live? If it were me Id come on here to vent and get suggestions (you have) then schedule a consult with a legitimate surgeon in or around your area to come up with a "whats next" framework. You're in the midst of a thought loop. Nothing but action and game planning is going to alleviate what youre feeling. Think whats next instead of what happened. You got this man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted October 22, 2015 Administrators Share Posted October 22, 2015 If it's not a zero guard it's very close too it, it's basically buzzed down, the pattern is not very good it could definitely be better, but to say it's very noticeable is a stretch, I highly doubt anyone would even ask you about the scars in day to day life, the picture you presented is with a very short cut on the sides and very close up. Again, I think it's your perspective mixed with buyers remorse, I have a similar pattern on the side of my head, no one has ever said anything to me it's not a big deal. How many people do you think examine your scalp that closely day to day? People only catch glimpses, the normal persons memory is not good, try this out, next time you order coffee with some one, wait 10 min after you're done and ask them to describe the person that sold them coffee, I bet you they'd have trouble, so you really think these little dots are going to be that noticeable to the average person or that they'll even remember? I just saw your second picture now I'm really baffled, what's wrong, the little tiny bit below your crown that's lighter? Your donor looks good and healthy. I will try and post pics later of depleted donor areas, yours is not one of them. I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member paleocapa89 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) Paleo, You are obviously upset and angry and obviously looking for someone to demonized and blame. I had initially posted that I share some of your concerns and instantly you attack me and seemingly purposely misinterpret my words. The publishers of this community have provided you with this venue to express your concerns and instead if thanking us you'd rather try to kick us in the teeth. I don't know what you want or expect from us at this point in time but at 3 or 4 months the only thing I can say is "wait it out". At the end of the day I do hope you get the results you deserve but at this time i don't see what else we can do. Bill Dear Bill, I did not mean to attack you, could you please quote the part where I am attacking you and purposely misinterpret your words? Although I did feel that you and David are refusing every claim I make despite I back up everything as best I can and you accept everything that the clinic states. I merely highlighted an example where you and David (or maybe it was only David) claimed that I am totally incorrect, since my operation was in July 11-12 as stated by the clinic. And when I proved that it was in fact in June 11-12 as I claimed you said well, maybe the clinic got it wrong or typed it wrong.. And then David even tried to refuse the other ex-patients concerns. And right now you are stating that I am merely looking for targets to demonize, insinuating that my "attack" is unjustified. A lot of concerns came up from multiple people concerning Dr Hakan Doganay and still the only person who is being questioned is me.. I am thankful for this forum for granting a place where I can state my concerns, although I have to remind you, it was the very same forum and it's recommendation that convinced me to chose Dr Hakan Doganay.. Edited October 22, 2015 by paleocapa89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member paleocapa89 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 I am documenting everything the pictures can be checked in my picasa album. I only posted that closeup to show you that my density is not really good. And I have mostly singles and a not many doubles and maybe a few 3's. I am not checking my head all the time from that close of a perspective However it does bother me that my hair is seethrough even when its relatively long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maranel Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Good thing is your beard looks very thick. You might consider it as backup for future hairloss. Did doc say anything about beard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member newbie33 Posted October 22, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 I think some of you chaps are being a bit hard on Paleo. Sure, it's too early to tell if the overall result will be acceptable, and that the donor might recover if there has been shock loss. But he makes some valid observations of his surgery and how he was treated. Paleo, I'd be having very similar concerns to you if I was in your shoes. As hard as it might be to do, you've just to hang tight and stop trying to focus on the worst possible outcome. If you are experiencing depression or ruminating on worse-case scenarios, there's no shame in seeking professional help with it. A while ago I had a consultation with Dr Doganay. Among other things I ruled him out because I thought his game plan for me didn't take my very probable future hair loss into account. I see a lot of doctors - in Turkey especially - do very low hairlines on very young guys which I think isn't serving their long term interests well. In my case, it was completely counter to the conservative approach I said I was looking for. It's all here: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/181125-ive-read-entire-forum-so-you-dont-have.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted October 22, 2015 Administrators Share Posted October 22, 2015 Paleo you're standing under direct light in the last picture you posted, it also looks like your hair was pushed up like maybe you were wearing a hat that flattened it, there will always be things that bother you or don't look good with a hair transplant, for example guys who get FUT hate to go swimming because the scar shows or on a windy day, but for the most part the scar is concealed, the same with you, your donor area doesn't look that bad, as someone already posted your beard hair looks thick, you can always use beard grafts worst comes to worst. I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Sean Posted October 22, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 Paleo, see how the donor looks in few months and keep all documentation. Some surgeons should recognize a scatterred extraction pattern may avoid any slightest hints of donor halos. Granted some patients of other doctors may have more distinct halos in extraction areas. Not to take away from your concern. If such concerns are real for all surgeons, then they need to put realistic photos on their websites and forum hosted presentations of how things will really be after surgerie(s) instead of showing flawless donors and hairline densities and designs. To do so otherwise is deception and marketing fraud, just to get folks in the chair. The best way to see a surgeons capability is to review real cases like Paleo, who have no financial gain or discounts or other deals/incentives from any surgeon now or in future. Havent had a chance to review some posts, but do you know the extraction punch sizes used in your surgery? Was it 1mm or less etc? Where you given estimate of your available donor area? Have you gotten any input from other doctors? Good luck buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member paleocapa89 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 A while ago I had a consultation with Dr Doganay. Among other things I ruled him out because I thought his game plan for me didn't take my very probable future hair loss into account. I see a lot of doctors - in Turkey especially - do very low hairlines on very young guys which I think isn't serving their long term interests well. In my case, it was completely counter to the conservative approach I said I was looking for. Hey newbie33! Could you share how exactly your consultation procedure went? Did he measure you for donor capacity, donor diameter, level of miniaturization etc. I understand he didn't really seemed to care about your future hair loss. Did he just took a quick look at your head and drew a new hairline on it without any proper assessment like he did with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member FUE2014 Posted October 22, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 Has Dr Doganay got round to learning how to speak English yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member paleocapa89 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 No he hasn't. Should have been a major redflag. His assistant is translating, but how can you be sure that everything you are explaining are going through without distortion? Plus, I am wondering how can you keep up with the development of the industry and the newest best practices if you can't read the literature that is in English. Maybe his assistant translates that too? Regarding the donor area, I know this might be a rare excellent example but this guy had 5000 grafts extracted by Dr De Reyes -( two times what I had) and you can hardly see anything. I was hoping for something closer to this outcome. Doctors should not offer and advertise FUE if they can't provide the benefits of FUE as well. It should be mandatory to showcase the donor pictures as well. After all its not just a "different harvesting method", there is a reason why people chose it. I would have never went for a strip procedure but I was lured in by the promise of a "scarless" FUE. Even Dr Hakan Doganay's website states this: " In the FUE method there will be small scars, which can be seen if a patient shave his head with grade 1 or below, however, those small scars can be hided with the patient's native hairs after letting the hair grow more than grade 1." Advanced FUE For me a grade 1 is 3-4mm. And now, after the procedure they are saying they meant 1-1,5 cm???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member spitfire uk Posted October 22, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 As a former Doganay patient I'm not going to jump in and defend him as my result is yet to be seen but I will add a few bits from my own experience. I spent a few days staying at the clinic and was allowed to watch an op before mine for a brief while , I heard small talk but nothing too bad or distracted ( I can well remember having my HT with Feller and one of his techs having a blazing arguement on the phone with their partner during graft placement then the techs talking about that for 10 minutes while I was sat there thinking Mind my scalp!). During my stay the 6 or so techs were the same , there also seemed to be one or two ops per day not multiple....its no hair mill thats for sure. The Dr and his head tech looked at my crown before the op and all the info was translated for me regarding future loss and usage of meds , I got a quote post ops on my hairline , grafts left and fut scar while I was there...I did have to push for the info though...it seems if you don't ask you don't get although everything is in your paperwork. Dr Hakan speaks broken English but his fluent translaters are always near and really look after you. There are too many half results at the minute and im still waiting mine but I will say there customer care was 1st class during my stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member spitfire uk Posted October 22, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 P.s Im a fan of Dr Reyes but dig about......he has a few doubters too. My donor grew back great ( video in my profile) , I think you may have had a bout of bad shockloss mate....I hope it grows back for you quickly from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member paleocapa89 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) I'm sure anyone can have bad results as well and anyone can have good results as well. It is the consistency that matters. Do you know what Hakan Doganay's rep told me when I mentioned the numerous bad results that I have found online? "Sometimes we have good results, sometimes we have bad results. Sometimes we have 90% growth, sometimes we have 60% growth. For those whose results are bad, we give refunds." like it's no big deal. I think this kind of attitude is unacceptable when you are conducting cosmetic surgery. So these are my 4,5 month results I just took the photos outside under natural light. Do you guys think I shouldn't be worried and it looks totally natural at this point or it doesn't? Edited October 22, 2015 by paleocapa89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member LondonHTseeker Posted October 22, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 It's normal for 4.5 months - could end up growing well. Only thing you should be doing now is taking Propecia. And criticising him for not speaking English, lol, come on. As for giving refunds if it's a bad result that's more ethical than many HT surgeons who just ignore failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member paleocapa89 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 Im only saying that not speaking English can have it's consequences. And I agree that giving refunds is better than not doing anything, I'm saying that it's the "it's no big deal" attitude is what concerns me. Hair transplant should not be a "hit or miss" type of procedure. Giving a refund will not compensate anyone for his used up grafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Xkos48 Posted October 22, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 I too had to face the BS answers and evasion from the clinic. I know what paleocapa89 is talking about. There is a problem with Doctor Doganay. As a matter of fact the reason why I (a French person) gave my testimony on this English speaking forum about my hair transplant with Dr Doganay is because the French forum on which I got in contact with Doganay's team, didn't want anything to do with Doganay anymore. They erased him from the list of their recommended doctors because his team made their patients and potential future patients believe that hair transplant was a very simple thing. Very aggressive marketing. Furthermore, a very active contributor in this French forum called "Caraglio" was inciting people to get a hair transplant with Doganay, because he expected to get a nice price for his future own hair transplant with Doganay. They caught him somehow by getting access to his conversation to Doganay's french agent "Enzy". Here it is, for those who can speak french: Mise au point du 05-05-2013 - International Hair Loss Forum They erased all the forum threads about Doganay, and even erased the name "Doganay" itself from all over the forum and replaced it by "Dr D." I guess anyone can contact the admin of this French forum for further details. WOW.tremendous,I just finished reading in french the article,it basically says that hakan doganay has been suspended for life on the forum for using illegal practices for publicity reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Cerrone60 Posted October 22, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 Paleocapa89 for heaven sake give it a rest you’re going on and on like a broken record this started of being a interesting thread now its just plain stupid. I had my HT with Dr Hakan Doganay over 2 years ago, all I can say I was treated very professionally by the Clinic and Dr Hakan Doganay I had a pre set of questions before hand which were fully answered and the final result I was more than happy with. By the way there’s no crystal ball which is going to guarantee you a successful HT, also you are mentioning 10 patients who are not happy with their result but lets not forget the 1000’s of patients who are happy and have never bothered to come online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Cerrone60 Posted October 22, 2015 Regular Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 Paleocapa89 for heaven sake give it a rest you’re going on and on like a broken record this started of being a interesting thread now its just plain stupid. I had my HT with Dr Hakan Doganay over 2 years ago, all I can say I was treated very professionally by the Clinic and Dr Hakan Doganay I had a pre set of questions before hand which were fully answered and the final result I was more than happy with. By the way there’s no crystal ball which is going to guarantee you a successful HT, also you are mentioning 10 patients who are not happy with their result but lets not forget the 1000’s of patients who are happy and have never bothered to come online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member paleocapa89 Posted October 22, 2015 Author Senior Member Share Posted October 22, 2015 Dear Cerrone60 Thanks for honoring me with your very first comment on this forum. If you are an expatient of Dr Hakan Doganay, please open your thread and share your photos and experience of your procedure. I understand you claim to be happy with your results, good for you, but please do not try to belittle other dissatisfied patient's claims. These are very serious issues as lives can be easily destroyed. A lot could have changed since your procedure, as it turns out nowadays most of the work is done by techs and this can effect the quality immensely. If you want to reason please do it by disproving the claims that were made in this thread and not by attacking me personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member matt1164 Posted October 23, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted October 23, 2015 I am sorry you had a bad experience. but you say you have hair loss in your family and couldn't you really figure out on your own that you would lose more hair and additional transplants would be necessary. I have been thinning for 20 yrs and been considering a ht for the last ten yrs. I waited this long to see how the baldness plays out. This is cosmetic surgery and you made your choice. you can say the dr sucked and he's unethical and he very well maybe but in my opinion you were really dumb to do a ht at this young age without taking meds. be a man already. it does suck what happened to you and I feel your pain and I thank you for the warning on the Doc you used. I will never use him. But you are still young and you should have enough donor hair left to do another procedure. I really wish you the best but keep into account that this is ongoing battle for you. if you genetically predisposed to be bald then you will continue to lose hair for the rest of your life. so be prepared for more surgeries and using fin in your future. Best of luck and I really hope it works out for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Buzz2 Posted October 23, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted October 23, 2015 Cerone 60 It's easy for you to say that, but I'm sure you wouldn't if the shoe was on the other foot. I had my donor overharvested, poor growth, misplaced grafts! Whilst I can appreciate poor growth from a HT, grafts wrongly angled and donor areas destroyed is unacceptable People who opt to have surgery already have issues with their hair, with this added makes the situation a hell of a lot worse. From memory there are about 15 or so patients from this forum who have been dissapointed in Doganay over the last year or 2. I am aware of at least 2 more that do not post on here. I'm sure there aren't many of the other docs on here which have such a bad record in such a time. Glad yours worked out, so sod the rest hey! HT No1 : Nobel clinic, Gatwick 500 grafts - Terrible result, left with bumpy skin HT No2 : Marwan Saifi 1680 grafts. Great result HT No3 - Marwan Saifi 1250 grafts. Another good result. HT No4 - Hakan Doganay 2134 grafts. Result TBA Total 5134 grafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mick50 Posted October 23, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted October 23, 2015 Doctor Doganay can only be held culpable of negligence if he went ahead with the transplant with the knowledge that you didn't have enough donor for future work ,any young guy with your hair loss pattern should know they're going to need more than one transplant, hopefully this first one will get you through for a few years and then you can review the situation then, I will always come down on the side of a patient if it is truly a bad result but at 4.5 months it is just the beginning, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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