WARNING, if considering Dr Hakan Doganay, read this first

[paleocapa89]

Dear Matt

 

Thank you for your sympathy. I do admit I was uneducated and I jumped into something without proper research. Losing your hair in your twenties can heavily influence you emotionally and make you do inconsiderate things.

 

Having said that I do not want to belittle the responsibility Dr Hakan Doganay plays in this story. In fact, to me, manning up means I admit my faults and calling out them on theirs. By a proper assessment and by laying out the facts based on that assessment we could have avoided this whole situation.

 

I wanted to share my story so others won't do the same mistakes that I did.

[lakes9925]

I first started shopping for hair transplants when i was 19 bc my hair line was receeding and i can tell you this at that young age after consulting with about 5 different docs in michigan there was not a single doc that warned me that i would be a future norwood 7 not did they ever explain to me that i would need another surgery...good thing i went to dr Seagar and in toronto back then and he was able to fill in my hairline with full density or else i would have just waisted my time and donor grafts atleast that was able to keep me going thru my 20's with a decent looking head of hair.

[paleocapa89]

Dear det9925

 

Thank you for sharing your story. But other doctors negligence should not be and excuse for Dr Hakan Doganay's negligence. Did those doctors evaluate your ongoing hairloss? Maybe you only had a recession and no sign of additional hairloss at that time.

In my case the situation is crystal clear. My pattern is clear. It would not had been hard to evaluate it and inform me about it and maybe come up with a game plan.

 

Anyway I am glad you are happy with your results.

[Mick50]

Don't get me wrong I know it's a jungle out there palecapa89 and maybe after reading this thread Dr Doganay will improve his pre-transplant consultation , believe me I know where you're coming from I had my transplant in Turkey the Doc I saw didn't even check my donor area before handing me over to the techs/nurses, all he did was draw the hair-line but the difference was he isn't a recommended Doc and i was aware the techs did the work before I went, but as I said before hang in there a lot can change for the better in the next 6 months

[newbie33]

Hey newbie33!

 

Could you share how exactly your consultation procedure went? Did he measure you for donor capacity, donor diameter, level of miniaturization etc. I understand he didn't really seemed to care about your future hair loss. Did he just took a quick look at your head and drew a new hairline on it without any proper assessment like he did with me?

 

Difficult to really say how much of an assessment he made of my future hairloss and hair characteristics. He certainly looked at my hair and from his experience maybe he had a pretty good idea but he didn't say how much donor I had or anything about the calibre of my hair. But he did say I would lose all my hair in the next five years.

 

It was all the more alarming to me when he then drew an NW1 hairline. A hairline that was much lower than I'd asked for and lower than my original juvenile one. And one that if I made it to NW5, which my guess is where I am headed down the road, I doubt I would ever have enough donor to cover. And absolutely no chance if I went beyond NW5.

[newbie33]

be a man already.

 

Chap, we're all here looking to pay big bucks to get a cosmetic surgeon to stick some dead protein on our heads so we can preen at ourselves in the mirror like a 5-year-old in their Snow White costume. Any spirit of suck-it-up-and-get-on-with-it manliness has long since departed these shores.

 

Also, you know, probably not such great advice to give to a guy who is obviously upset and depressed.

[Mick50]

Ha I'm more than a man than you'll ever be , I take offence at you casting doubt on my manliness [as he pouts into the mirror admiring his new hair-line

[newbie33]

Ha I'm more than a man than you'll ever be , I take offence at you casting doubt on my manliness [as he pouts into the mirror admiring his new hair-line

 

Then let's settle it like men - with an increasingly unintelligible exchange of ever-more personal forum replies until ones of us dies.

[biolizard]

Chap, we're all here looking to pay big bucks to get a cosmetic surgeon to stick some dead protein on our heads so we can preen at ourselves in the mirror like a 5-year-old in their Snow White costume. Any spirit of suck-it-up-and-get-on-with-it manliness has long since departed these shores.

 

Also, you know, probably not such great advice to give to a guy who is obviously upset and depressed.

 

 

LMAO!

Now that's hilarious.

So true, if I was inclined to just 'be a man' about it, then I would've (and should've) just buzzed my hair down and skipped the stupid ugly FUE I had. Such a mistake getting this HT.

[lakes9925]

My pointe was that most docs in the cosmetic field just dont have good ethics... and this was almost 15 years ago it was worse then, If it werent for the internet getting so popular then most most docs still would not care bc no one would ever really know about patient expierences.... with that said i still think your case is not that bad just give it some time bro then get another session in the future and just make the best of it....over time i learned to accept that i will never have a full head of hair but that doesnt mean i wont look good, not everything is goingto be perfect just have to make the best of it...good luck to you

[losinghair13]

Dear Paleocapa89,

 

I sympathize with your condition but I am not surprised. I am an ex-patient of Dr. Hakan Doganay, currently at around seven months after the hair transplant and I had experienced many of the issues that you have mentioned in your post, especially his pre transplant consultation is extremely casual without going into any details about the current condition / history and future expectations.

My hair regrowth is also very poor, it is almost a failed transplant. I am waiting for another month or so before posting my experience in this forum. He has a history of inconsistent results / failed transplants in the last 2 years but he still continues to be recommended by this forum….

I appreciate your courage in very strongly highlighting your case. Atleast it will help others in their decision for future transplants.

[TR3B]

Losinghair13 post a picture of your HT. Is there any growth at all at 7 months?

[paleocapa89]

Hi Losinghair13

 

Thanks for sharing your story and backing up my claims. I believe you but there will be people who will question you so I would also like to ask you to upload some pictures, it is the only way to get some credibility on this forum and it adds gravity to your claims.

[MrGio-WHTCClinic]

I appreciate you sharing your intimate details of this experience.

 

This is a matter of consent. The patient-doctor relationship should always entail trust. The consultation should have indicated that your hair loss may continue and hair transplant surgery has limitations due to donor availability.

[Scandinavian]

Hi paleocapa89

 

I an sorry that you had to experience this situation. Thank you for sharing it. I was considering travelling to this doc for a ht myself, but reading this is so disturbing that I dont think I can take that risk.

[losinghair13]

Losinghair13 post a picture of your HT. Is there any growth at all at 7 months?

 

Hardly 10% of the implanted hair have grown back. I do not want to post my photos in this thread. As I mentioned earlier, I will start a new thread soon.

[wylie]

There is a reputation amongst Turkish clinics of the doctors spending little actual time with the patient during surgery, and with some clinics, the surgery is done almost entirely by a team of technicians. When you get a low price HT, you have to give something up, and often times that is the attention of the physician who is supposed to perform the HT.

 

With all HT doctors, including all of those in the U.S., their focus seems to be on how to maximize their time, which often means working on two patients at the same time, while instructing their technicians on how to proceed. Out of four different doctors I have seen for work (three of them to repair the work of the first one), 3 of the four were working on other patients at the same time they were working on me (the exception was Dr. Konior, who is often booked months in advance, and one of the reasons for this is the individual attention you receive from him)

 

If this is the way business is conducted in Turkey, the end result is not going to be good for the patient, because it is likely that, over time, these doctors will begin to spend even less time on each patient, and work simultaneously on more patients each day, in order to maximize profits.

 

In the end, you get what you pay for.

[TR3B]

Well if this thread does anything I hope the Doctors have a look and re-think their patient care and attention. Dr Doganay has probably lost a Hell of a lot of business through this very thread.

 

There are still clinics in Turkey who do 1 HT per day and look after the patients best interest (and don't charge silly money) So you get what you pay for isn't exactly right as it's all relative, I know people who have paid a Hell of a lot of money for UK transplants that are sub standard, those guys certainly didn't get what they paid for.

[wylie]

 

There are still clinics in Turkey who do 1 HT per day and look after the patients best interest (and don't charge silly money) So you get what you pay for isn't exactly right as it's all relative, I know people who have paid a Hell of a lot of money for UK transplants that are sub standard, those guys certainly didn't get what they paid for.

 

You get what you pay for is based on the assumption that you have done the required amount of research in choosing a HT surgeon. As far as I'm concerned there is no one in the U.K. I would visit to have a HT with in the first place, so I can further assume the people you know did not do their research.

 

As far as Dr. Doganay, he is recommended on this forum, so people who visit him are also likely assuming they have chose wisely, and find that his prices are unbeatable. All things being equal (as far as recommended doctors) you get a really cheap rate, you find out there are some variables to consider:

 

1) Language barrier

2) Doctor involvement

3) Follow up care

 

Perhaps all these issues get lower scores when getting a really cheap rate on your surgery, whereas paying more you may get higher scores on these.

[Mickeydw]

There is a reputation amongst Turkish clinics of the doctors spending little actual time with the patient during surgery, and with some clinics, the surgery is done almost entirely by a team of technicians. When you get a low price HT, you have to give something up, and often times that is the attention of the physician who is supposed to perform the HT.

 

With all HT doctors, including all of those in the U.S., their focus seems to be on how to maximize their time, which often means working on two patients at the same time, while instructing their technicians on how to proceed. Out of four different doctors I have seen for work (three of them to repair the work of the first one), 3 of the four were working on other patients at the same time they were working on me (the exception was Dr. Konior, who is often booked months in advance, and one of the reasons for this is the individual attention you receive from him)

 

If this is the way business is conducted in Turkey, the end result is not going to be good for the patient, because it is likely that, over time, these doctors will begin to spend even less time on each patient, and work simultaneously on more patients each day, in order to maximize profits.

 

In the end, you get what you pay for.

 

pretty much sums up my experience with Dr Doganay, He was there for the first few min of the operation then after that it was all the techs work.

 

I didn't go in there expecting the techs to be doing all of the work pretty much

now it seems like I have to go for another HT which I'll be picking more carefully this time.

 

How many times does it take for a Doc with bad reviews on this fourm to get kicked off it? or are they paying this fourm too much for them not wanting to take them off?

 

Id like an answer to that who ever moniters this fourm??!

[paleocapa89]

I might open a new thread for this one, meanwhile everyone should read this. I have contacted Bill - Managing Publisherand David - Moderator a few days ago describing how Dr Hakan Doganay was using fake accounts on this forum for publicity, but was let off the hook too easily.

 

I haven't gotten any answer since, So I decided to post my whole letter here publicly:

 

 

Dear Bill and David,

 

I believe you have overlooked some important facts about the case when Dr Hakan Doganay was accused of using fake accounts that share the same IP, but was let off the hook.

 

I believe that those were in fact fake accounts and in this letter I am going to prove to you why.

 

Please, first take a closer look at my thread. I have received this message from Xkos48 quoting William1's original post.

 

"Originally Posted by William1 View Post

 

I too had to face the BS answers and evasion from the clinic. I know what paleocapa89 is talking about.

 

There is a problem with Doctor Doganay. As a matter of fact the reason why I (a French person) gave my testimony on this English speaking forum about my hair transplant with Dr Doganay is because the French forum on which I got in contact with Doganay's team, didn't want anything to do with Doganay anymore. They erased him from the list of their recommended doctors because his team made their patients and potential future patients believe that hair transplant was a very simple thing. Very aggressive marketing. Furthermore, a very active contributor in this French forum called "Caraglio" was inciting people to get a hair transplant with Doganay, because he expected to get a nice price for his future own hair transplant with Doganay. They caught him somehow by getting access to his conversation to Doganay's french agent "Enzy".

 

Here it is, for those who can speak french: Mise au point du 05-05-2013 - International Hair Loss Forum

 

Mise au point du 05-05-2013 - International Hair Loss Forum

They erased all the forum threads about Doganay, and even erased the name "Doganay" itself from all over the forum and replaced it by "Dr D."

 

I guess anyone can contact the admin of this French forum for further details

 

WOW.tremendous,I just finished reading in french the article,it basically says that hakan doganay has been suspended for life on the forum for using illegal practices for publicity reasons."

 

After reading this I remembered that there was a claim on this forum as well about Dr Hakan Doganay using fake accounts, so I did a little research.

 

This was David's post in 05-15-2014,

 

"Guys,

 

Concerns about Dr. Doganay's clinic potentially using a number of false member profiles have recently come to our attention. At this time, we have identified a number of profiles sharing the same IP address as Dr. Doganay's account and have reached out to the clinic for an explanation. We will keep you updated on this as we obtain further information.

 

Having said that, we are confident in Dr. Doganay's skill in delivering consistently excellent results."

 

 

And this was the defense used by the clinic, I am quoting David:

 

 

"Hello Everyone,

 

 

In response to questions raised in this thread, we have received a plausible explanation from Dr. Doganay's representative Ahmet regarding the sharing of IP addresses among a number of different accounts.

 

The account DrHakanDOGANAY is managed by two of Dr. Doganay's representatives as Dr. Doganay does not speak English. One of these is Ahmet who is currently based in the UK and the other is Mustafa who is based in the US. In addition to sharing clinic results, when questions are posed to the doctor, they will contact him, translate his response and post it on his behalf using that account.

 

Lloyd is one of Mustafa's office mates and is a former patient of Dr. Doganay. Thus, they often share the same IP.

 

The accounts; Saaed, Sariz, JohnLondon and Azura belong to other roommates and office mates of Mustafa and Ahmet. They have assured me thatall the accounts belong to different people and all of the comments are their individual opinions and comments. None of these members are asked to post by the clinic.

 

Azura's job is to notify the clinic if any former patients are expressing concerns about their procedure so they can contact the patient and address these concerns but he is not encouraged to post comments. I have reminded them that Azura must provide a disclosure in his signature stating that he is employed by the clinic.

 

I do not believe that there was any intention to deceive on the part of Dr. Doganay or his staff. I've made some suggestions as to how they can avoid this confusion in the future and also suggested that they respond publicly to any questions or comments that may arise."

 

 

And this was the defense by the clinic, I am quoting Dr. Hakan Doganay:

 

 

"Dear David,

 

Thanks for the clarification and thanks to everyone for the comments.

 

Ahmet (in the UK) and Mustafa ( in the USA) are graduate students. Few people (from their departments or housemate) heard about the forum and they opened accounts.

 

David! Sorry that we were not clear about the Azura's situation. We follow our patients' process after the operation. But just in case Ahmet asked Azura to let him know if Azura sees any former patient who has concerns about the operation that the clinic can contact and answer the patient's questions and concerns.

 

All of the comments and questions are their individual opinions and questions.

 

Thanks again for the clarification and the comments."

 

 

This weak defense seemed BS and not "life-like" at all to me so I took the liberty to do some research, let's see the facts:

 

These so called real accounts of Lloyd, JohnLondon, Azura, Saeed and Sariz are just roommates of Ahmet and Mustafa and share the same IP meaning that they only come online and post on the forum from the same network from the same building. Very unlikely. I believe Lloyd is the main account as it was registered first and the following accounts were registered subsequently to praise Dr Hakan Doganay.

 

 

Lloydin 2/7/2013

 

JohnLondonin 12/18/2013

 

Azurain 12/11/2013

 

Saeed in 11/2/2013

 

Sariz in 4/28/2014

 

 

So these so called real accounts are real people who are just expressing their own opinion right? Let's take a look at their posting history:

 

(click their names for their posts)

 

Johnlondon: all posts: 35, from this 23 posts are affiliated with Dr Hakan Doganay from that 22 posts are directly praising him and 1 post directly recommends him or states that he is considering him for surgery.

 

Azura: all post: 21, from this 11 post are affiliated with Dr Hakan Doganay from that 9 posts directly praising him.

 

Saaed: all posts: 38 from this 27 are affiliated with Dr Hakan Doganay from that 24 are directly praising him and 2 post directly recommends him or states that he is considering him for surgery.

 

Sariz: all posts: 6 from this 3 are affiliated with Dr Hakan Doganay, and all 3 are directly praising him,

 

Loyd is a different account, in my opinion that is the main account i didn't have the time to check all his posts but from the 148 post he made 89 are affiliated with Dr Hakan Doganay. He also claims he is a former patient but haven't really provided any proof, this is his vague thread: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/175175-dr-hakan-doganay-18-months-4000-grafts-results.html

 

 

So these "real people" just happened to be Dr Hakan Doganays rep's roommates who share the same IP and come online to share their "own opinion" which is posting about Hakan Doganay and praising him in almost 100% of their posts that are in connection with him. Very unlikely.,,

 

Ok so let's see what happened after they got busted in 05-15-2014? There should be no change in their behavior since these are just "real roommates" expressing their "own opinion"... Let's take a look at their last post and last activity after they got busted in 05-15-2014 :

 

 

Johnlondon: Last post 05-03-2014. Last online: 05-03-2014

 

Azura: Last post 05-04-2014. Last online: 05-17-2014

 

Saaed: Last post 05-05-2014. Last online 05-06-2014

 

Sariz: Last post: 05-01-2014. Last online 05-01-2014

 

 

So to sum up, these "real people" who happen to be Dr Hakan Doganay's rep roommates and just happen to share the same IP and only come online from the same network from the same building are posting mainly about the doctor and in those post they are praising him and recommending him for surgery. And after they got busted they stopped posting and never come online again. And what happened to Azura, whose job supposed to be "to notify the clinic if any former patients are expressing concerns" How come he never came online after they got busted? How can he notify the clinic is he was never online since?

 

 

Do you really believe this? I do not. Those were fake accounts created by Dr. Hakan Doganay's rep to praise the doc and to recommend him for surgery and after he got busted he never used those accounts anymore. In my opinion this is very unsettling. Those posts are still on the forum praising the doc and recommending him for surgery so when a new member finds them he will be influenced by them. I know I was. This is very dangerous and unethical not to mention how badly this can influence the reputation and credibility of this website.

 

 

I dont't know what else proof do you need from me to believe that what I am stating about Dr Hakan Doganay is all true. I contacted you first and not posted this on the forum, so those accounts can’t be reactivated and the posts deleted by Dr Hakan Doganay’s rep. Anyway if that happened, I have documented and saved everything. Please get back to me when you have decided what you want to do with the information that I just provided to you.

[Stig]

I might open a new thread for this one, meanwhile everyone should read this. I have contacted Bill - Managing Publisherand David - Moderator a few days ago describing how Dr Hakan Doganay was using fake accounts on this forum for publicity, but was let off the hook too easily.

 

I haven't gotten any answer since, So I decided to post my whole letter here publicly:

 

 

Dear Bill and David,

 

I believe you have overlooked some important facts about the case when Dr Hakan Doganay was accused of using fake accounts that share the same IP, but was let off the hook.

 

I believe that those were in fact fake accounts and in this letter I am going to prove to you why.

 

Please, first take a closer look at my thread. I have received this message from Xkos48 quoting William1's original post.

 

 

 

After reading this I remembered that there was a claim on this forum as well about Dr Hakan Doganay using fake accounts, so I did a little research.

 

This was David's post in 05-15-2014,

 

 

 

 

And this was the defense used by the clinic, I am quoting David:

 

 

 

 

 

And this was the defense by the clinic, I am quoting Dr. Hakan Doganay:

 

 

 

 

 

This weak defense seemed BS and not "life-like" at all to me so I took the liberty to do some research, let's see the facts:

 

These so called real accounts of Lloyd, JohnLondon, Azura, Saeed and Sariz are just roommates of Ahmet and Mustafa and share the same IP meaning that they only come online and post on the forum from the same network from the same building. Very unlikely. I believe Lloyd is the main account as it was registered first and the following accounts were registered subsequently to praise Dr Hakan Doganay.

 

 

Lloydin 2/7/2013

 

JohnLondonin 12/18/2013

 

Azurain 12/11/2013

 

Saeed in 11/2/2013

 

Sariz in 4/28/2014

 

 

So these so called real accounts are real people who are just expressing their own opinion right? Let's take a look at their posting history:

 

(click their names for their posts)

 

Johnlondon: all posts: 35, from this 23 posts are affiliated with Dr Hakan Doganay from that 22 posts are directly praising him and 1 post directly recommends him or states that he is considering him for surgery.

 

Azura: all post: 21, from this 11 post are affiliated with Dr Hakan Doganay from that 9 posts directly praising him.

 

Saaed: all posts: 38 from this 27 are affiliated with Dr Hakan Doganay from that 24 are directly praising him and 2 post directly recommends him or states that he is considering him for surgery.

 

Sariz: all posts: 6 from this 3 are affiliated with Dr Hakan Doganay, and all 3 are directly praising him,

 

Loyd is a different account, in my opinion that is the main account i didn't have the time to check all his posts but from the 148 post he made 89 are affiliated with Dr Hakan Doganay. He also claims he is a former patient but haven't really provided any proof, this is his vague thread: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/175175-dr-hakan-doganay-18-months-4000-grafts-results.html

 

 

So these "real people" just happened to be Dr Hakan Doganays rep's roommates who share the same IP and come online to share their "own opinion" which is posting about Hakan Doganay and praising him in almost 100% of their posts that are in connection with him. Very unlikely.,,

 

Ok so let's see what happened after they got busted in 05-15-2014? There should be no change in their behavior since these are just "real roommates" expressing their "own opinion"... Let's take a look at their last post and last activity after they got busted in 05-15-2014 :

 

 

Johnlondon: Last post 05-03-2014. Last online: 05-03-2014

 

Azura: Last post 05-04-2014. Last online: 05-17-2014

 

Saaed: Last post 05-05-2014. Last online 05-06-2014

 

Sariz: Last post: 05-01-2014. Last online 05-01-2014

 

 

So to sum up, these "real people" who happen to be Dr Hakan Doganay's rep roommates and just happen to share the same IP and only come online from the same network from the same building are posting mainly about the doctor and in those post they are praising him and recommending him for surgery. And after they got busted they stopped posting and never come online again. And what happened to Azura, whose job supposed to be "to notify the clinic if any former patients are expressing concerns" How come he never came online after they got busted? How can he notify the clinic is he was never online since?

 

 

Do you really believe this? I do not. Those were fake accounts created by Dr. Hakan Doganay's rep to praise the doc and to recommend him for surgery and after he got busted he never used those accounts anymore. In my opinion this is very unsettling. Those posts are still on the forum praising the doc and recommending him for surgery so when a new member finds them he will be influenced by them. I know I was. This is very dangerous and unethical not to mention how badly this can influence the reputation and credibility of this website.

 

 

I dont't know what else proof do you need from me to believe that what I am stating about Dr Hakan Doganay is all true. I contacted you first and not posted this on the forum, so those accounts can’t be reactivated and the posts deleted by Dr Hakan Doganay’s rep. Anyway if that happened, I have documented and saved everything. Please get back to me when you have decided what you want to do with the information that I just provided to you.

 

 

Wow, you must have alot of time on your hands. Very very interesting reading, and I must admit that it seems shady as hell.

[paleocapa89]

Yes I do have a lot of time since I can't go outside looking like this. To me it seems the more I scratch the surface the more dirt comes up. Obviously, I am not in a position to decide 100% sure whether those are in fact fake accounts or "real people" expressing their "own opinion" but I believe I am entitled to my own opinion. But when something looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.

 

I have created a separate thread just for this issue here:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/181356-did-dr-hakan-doganay-use-fake-accounts-publicity-read-decide-yourself.html

Edited October 26, 2015 by paleocapa89

[Petchski]

That is even more damning, and the question that needs to be asked is should this website be promoting a clinic who engages in such practices and now has a trail of poor patient posted results?

[Cerrone60]

its amazing how much research paleocapa89 has done on Dr Hakan Doganay in fact you could even say paleocapa89 and his buddies have been on a crusade. When it came to his hair transplant he says he was uneducated and gone into it with his eyes shut , who talking BS now

I remember reading about some of the members commenting on this thread that they were offered a full refund or a additional procedure for free by the clinic . All I’m saying this is not the best clinic on the market but its no where as bad as its being made out here.