Senior Member Petchski Posted December 12, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted December 12, 2015 Triple post, this website does crash on me sometimes when trying to post -------------------------------------- My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Feller Dr Feller Jan '09 2000 grafts Dr Lorenzo Dec '15 2222 grafts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Petchski Posted December 12, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted December 12, 2015 (edited) Triple post Edited December 12, 2015 by Petchski Triple post -------------------------------------- My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Feller Dr Feller Jan '09 2000 grafts Dr Lorenzo Dec '15 2222 grafts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member paleocapa89 Posted December 12, 2015 Author Senior Member Share Posted December 12, 2015 Techs doing the extractions is the norm in Europe i'd say, not the states though. I read somewhere that techs are not allowed by law to score a patient's skin in the USA because that is considered an operation which can only be carried out by a doctor. I don't know if that is true but it would explain why you don't see techs harvesting in the USA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Thank you to those who have expressed their concern and who have waited patiently for us to come up with a decision. I know it has taken some time, but we did not want to make a decision in haste and thus, wanted to be thorough in evaluating the concerns of the community by speaking with the clinic privately. Unfortunately, the clinic did take a little bit of time to respond, but only because they had to orchestrate meetings and discuss the concerns before coming to a conclusion on how they were going to handle procedures moving forward. I am happy to hear that the doctor will be more involved with each procedure moving forward. Apparently, Dr. Doganay will be creating all of the recipient incisions and placing all of the graphs himself with the implanter pen. However, technicians will still be extracting the follicular units themselves, which like it or not, is a common practice in Europe. Given the doctors increased involvement, I suspect that if there are any quality control issues, that they will be fixed and thus, results we see from his patients will be more consistent. That said, in the interest of being thorough and considering the concerns of the community, we have decided to discontinue Dr. Doganay's recommendation at this time while he works on correcting any possible quality control issues. I have asked the clinic to continue presenting examples of their results on our forum and showing pictures of the doctors increased involvement. I have also encouraged them to ask their patients to continue posting their results and experiences on this forum so we can monitor progress. If after some time, we feel confident that any quality control issues have been resolved, we can reinstate Dr. Doganay's recommendation once again. We did not come to this decision lightly however, we feel that it is in the best interest of patients at this time to discontinue his recommendation and monitor the clinic in a probationary period to see if things continue to improve. We hope that the clinic will take this decision constructively and work with us to demonstrate the doctors increased involvement and show the community that any quality control issues have been resolved if they even existed. But ultimately, we feel it is better to err on the side of caution and thus, in the interest of patient satisfaction, this appears to be the best solution for now. I will leave this topic open so that people may respond to our decision and then after a few days I will lock it so that we can move on to other important matters. Thank you all for understanding, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Wwiizzkkiidd24 Posted December 13, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted December 13, 2015 you done what was best so well done bill. I think that was the only way forward in this matter even though he isn't extracting at least he's doing the artistic side of things. let's see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 Lefty gopher, You have absolutely no idea what goes on behind the scenes, so to try to suggest that I'm not doing anything in order to address the concerns of the community is dead wrong. Perhaps you are just figurines of the fact that things go on behind the scenes, but now that I've made you aware of that and you can now see my decision, I expect you to retract your statement and make a public apology. I do not threaten to kick people off of the forum unless there is a good reason to. When I feel somebody is bullying or being unnecessarily harsh which is in violation of our terms of service especially because they are not getting their way, I am going to call them out on it. For the record, I don't think Paleo is a bad guy and I appreciate him bringing his concerns to my attention as well as the attention of the community. That said, people need to learn to be a bit more patient. Investigation sometimes takes time and decisions should not be made in haste. I am not the only one responsible for decisions as I wanted to run my thoughts by Patrick Hennessey, the publisher of this community along with Dave our assistant publisher and co-moderator. At the end of the day, my decision was to discontinue his recommendation while giving him a chance to demonstrate to this community at any quality control issues have been taken care of. This process takes time so the term of his discontinued recommendation will be no less than three months however, it may be longer depending on how the community feels about what we see moving forward. Thus, there is no reason for you to get snippy nor any other member. I work hard as does the other moderators and publishers to keep this community and it's recommendations credible. We are long time patient advocates and decisions we make will be in the interest of protecting patients. That's true whether or not we approve a doctor for a recommendation or remove him or her. Some of you have attempted to suggest that we let monetary gain influence our decisions. That is simply not the case. If it was, we would have a long list of recommendation some of you have attempted to suggest that we let monetary gain influence our decisions. That is simply not the case. If it was, we would have a long list of over 300 recommendations. Do you know how many doctors practically beg to be members of this community? If we simply let every doctor was interested become a member, we would all be millionaires. But we prefer to keep a short list of recommendations based on high standards so that patients can select doctors from our list and confidence knowing that we've done a thorough prescreening and only approved doctors that we felt that our high standards and doctors that we would trust our own scalps with. So before criticizing the publishers of this community, perhaps you should look back and research the long past of this community and see how we have a proven track record of advocating for patients and keeping our recommendations credible. All the best, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mickey85 Posted December 13, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted December 13, 2015 Good decision Bill. I feel that by removing Dr Doganay's recommendation status(for the time being) will actually force the clinic to change there current protocol. I never felt comfortable with just taking the clinic's word for it and hoped that you would not either. This may also force other clinics to review their current methods also. If/when Dr Doganay claims his clinic protocol has changed, I hope that the decision to re-instate his recommendation is based on emperical evidence and not just his word/anecdotal. The only 2 threads you will ever need: Revamped Advantages/Disadvantages of FUE. Myths dispelled. Educate yourself Everything FUE. Manual, motorized, ARTAS, NeoGraft, physician details and more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted December 13, 2015 Administrators Share Posted December 13, 2015 Good decision, there were way too many negative results from real members, the explanations provided were less than acceptable, I would agree to allow them to show proof that they have stopped operating like a mill and returned to providing individual care, and no doubt there results will return. Bill serious question, is there anyway to have clinics disclose their technicians experience? For example I know erdogan has a very experienced tech that always does extractions with him, obviously extracting the graft is a vital part of surgery, as the graft could be harmed during extraction and thus lead to lower growth, I personally as a patient would feel more comfortable if the clinic disclosed the technicians who do the extractions educational background and their experience, I personally feel that the clinics should have the technicians profile on their website similar to how they are listed on this website, educational background, experience, years in industry etc. this would at least provide some comfort and assure me that they are not fly by night technicians that are admittedly a very common practice in countries like turkey and India. I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member esrec Posted December 13, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted December 13, 2015 Bill, Thank you. The decision is an unfortunate one but ultimately the the correct one. We appreciate you safeguarding the community. 3 Questions: *What is the criteria for reinstatement, or is this truly a "wait and see" approach? *Does it make sense to further differentiate recommendations? Until 24 hours ago someone like Dr. Doganay would be considered an equal to H+W or Rahal, etc of the world. I wonder how we separate those who are consistently recommended from the rest of the pack. Particularly for less informed members. *Will you be checking in with other clinics to communicate these updated standards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Stig Posted December 14, 2015 Senior Member Share Posted December 14, 2015 . This process takes time so the term of his discontinued recommendation will be no less than three months however, it may be longer depending on how the community feels about what we see moving forward. Bill Bill, I think you made the absolute right call, and I applauded your decision right up until the part where you mentioned a 3 month minimum, at which point you I think you blew it. I am sorry, but I am assuming Doganay will have to prove himself with the cases he performs from this point forward. As a transplant takes a full 12 months to judge a result, how can the minimum be 3 months? I know it's a minimum, but surely you are not suggesting that 3 months is potentially all it may take to reinstate the recommendation. This is suggesting that you may simply be evaluating Doganay's change in technique and not the results to get him back. It has gotta be 12 months to 2 years at a minimum, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member malcolm89 Posted January 8, 2016 Regular Member Share Posted January 8, 2016 Paleo, any updates at the 7 month mark? I'm sure I'm not the only one who's interested in seeing how you're progressing. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member leftygolfer71 Posted January 8, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted January 8, 2016 Lefty gopher, You have absolutely no idea what goes on behind the scenes, so to try to suggest that I'm not doing anything in order to address the concerns of the community is dead wrong. Perhaps you are just figurines of the fact that things go on behind the scenes, but now that I've made you aware of that and you can now see my decision, I expect you to retract your statement and make a public apology. I do not threaten to kick people off of the forum unless there is a good reason to. When I feel somebody is bullying or being unnecessarily harsh which is in violation of our terms of service especially because they are not getting their way, I am going to call them out on it. For the record, I don't think Paleo is a bad guy and I appreciate him bringing his concerns to my attention as well as the attention of the community. That said, people need to learn to be a bit more patient. Investigation sometimes takes time and decisions should not be made in haste. I am not the only one responsible for decisions as I wanted to run my thoughts by Patrick Hennessey, the publisher of this community along with Dave our assistant publisher and co-moderator. At the end of the day, my decision was to discontinue his recommendation while giving him a chance to demonstrate to this community at any quality control issues have been taken care of. This process takes time so the term of his discontinued recommendation will be no less than three months however, it may be longer depending on how the community feels about what we see moving forward. Thus, there is no reason for you to get snippy nor any other member. I work hard as does the other moderators and publishers to keep this community and it's recommendations credible. We are long time patient advocates and decisions we make will be in the interest of protecting patients. That's true whether or not we approve a doctor for a recommendation or remove him or her. Some of you have attempted to suggest that we let monetary gain influence our decisions. That is simply not the case. If it was, we would have a long list of recommendation some of you have attempted to suggest that we let monetary gain influence our decisions. That is simply not the case. If it was, we would have a long list of over 300 recommendations. Do you know how many doctors practically beg to be members of this community? If we simply let every doctor was interested become a member, we would all be millionaires. But we prefer to keep a short list of recommendations based on high standards so that patients can select doctors from our list and confidence knowing that we've done a thorough prescreening and only approved doctors that we felt that our high standards and doctors that we would trust our own scalps with. So before criticizing the publishers of this community, perhaps you should look back and research the long past of this community and see how we have a proven track record of advocating for patients and keeping our recommendations credible. All the best, Bill Oh, it's leftygolfer not lefty gopher, but I'm sure you did that on purpose as a cheap dig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mav23100gunther Posted January 8, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted January 8, 2016 Paleo, any updates at the 7 month mark? I'm sure I'm not the only one who's interested in seeing how you're progressing. Thanks. Was wondering the same thing. Paleo went quiet, might he be experiencing some growth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member malcolm89 Posted January 8, 2016 Regular Member Share Posted January 8, 2016 Was wondering the same thing. Paleo went quiet, might he be experiencing some growth? Things could be looking at least slightly better for him to disappear for a couple weeks after being so obsessive, although his 6 month results were pretty lacking. He definitely did the community a solid by bringing this to light. That being said, I'd have to chuckle a bit if he ends up with an awesome result after all this. Unfortunately I don't think that will be the case, but who knows? I've read every link he posted though, and it's definitely alarming to see that many bad results, especially when the overwhelming majority of the doc's patients are probably Turkish, meaning they wouldn't be on this English-speaking site posting results. That's a lot of foreigners flying to Turkey and getting poor results. That being said, we all know that the guys who have killer results rarely return to tell the tale. None of that changes anything about the clinic's practices of course. They deserved to be suspended imo, but it'd be nice to see Paleo get a good result all the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted January 8, 2016 Administrators Share Posted January 8, 2016 It's going to be difficult to gauge his result since he shaves the recipient area, even if the result would look good, it's hard to tell if it's shaved. Hopefully he allows the result to grow out to be able to really see it. I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member paleocapa89 Posted January 9, 2016 Author Senior Member Share Posted January 9, 2016 Hi all! Happy new year to everybody I had to shave it for a new years eve party, I am growing it out since, I will report about it in a couple of days when I reach the 7 month mark. There might be some growth happening (or I would like to believe it) but sadly its still nothing extraordinary or cosmetically pleasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member malcolm89 Posted January 9, 2016 Regular Member Share Posted January 9, 2016 Happy new year Paleo and thanks for checking in. Look forward to seeing your results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member jameslondon Posted January 9, 2016 Regular Member Share Posted January 9, 2016 well, i thought this was a very respectable clinic. this is the second random post i've come across this week after logging on, which has turned out to be shocking. i think it's great that dr Doganay has commented and put a reply. the comment about technicians dropping equipment and the risk of infections is worrying as well. i can understand that people don't want to take fin - it's not great, but it does work. however, it did make a difference to my hair miniaturisation and seemed to halt loss very quickly. anyway, what worries me most about this post and the other Feller post, is that there seems to be a serious issue going on about technicians? is there anything the moderators/owners of this forum can do about recommendations or price structuring - it seems to be assumed most of the time that if you pay a high rate, you will see the specialist for a full consultation and he will do the designing/structuring and the main part of the work? is there not some way to make the process more transparent in the recommendations/results pages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Guys, As I stated in a previous post, I would give member some time to respond to our decision and then I would lock the topic. I have left the topic on way longer and then I said I would in order to allow members ample time to respond to our decision. Our decision to discontinue doct as I stated in a previous post, I would give member some time to respond to our decision and then I would lock the topic. I have left the topic on way longer and then I said I would in order to allow members ample time to respond to our decision. Our decision to discontinue Dr. Doganay's recommendation was a difficult one however, we feel that it is in the best interest of the community at this time until the clinic can prove that any quality control issues that may be going on have been resolved. If Paleo wishes to continue sharing his experience or updates on this for him he can start a new topic. However, now that a decision has been reached about his recommendation, I want the new topic to stick to the scope of his experience and not go on about other's experiences or his previous recommendation. If anyone has any comments about our decision at this point, please send me a private message. Best wishes. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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