Frontal NW2 Restoration @ Eugenix | M 26 | December 10th

[drawdownfx]

On 5/7/2022 at 3:56 PM, NARMAK said:

I kinda get what you're saying and by no means will you see me defending the temple point that went wrong but one is pretty much perfect looking even at a low fade. Thin hairs that actually match what a temple point should contain. I think the slight problem with the directions you drew is that they're already difficult enough to get right and as flat as possible to the angle needed against the skin. I don't know how much more "right" it would be trying to mimic that natural hair. After all, hair transplants are not a natural recreation to 100% of what was there but a close approximation to mimic by and large the same result within the limitations of what we have in todays technology. 

I sure as heck think like i said, they botched one temple with hairs that are much thicker rather than perhaps the angulation aspect being the more glaring issue. The donors just unacceptable by their own standards too. 

I do not also say any of this lightly or to hurt the OP, in fact, i'm extremely grateful to @Captain Haddockfor sharing this all for us to pick through to properly evaluate the clinic and hopefully ensure they do not ever repeat this again. Also, i do think it would only be fair for Eugenix to fix this for OP free of charge considering the lead surgeon was the founder themselves.

I once asked what happens if something goes wrong and a rep replied that its the responsibility of Eugenic Hair Sciences. Let's see what that means in practical terms now there's an actual example of something that requires genuine remedy. 

This is an example of someone who has similar angulations to OP's hair which has hairs that come forward instead of the usual that we see which are backwards and transverse. This work has been done purposely and meticulously to give the natural look, the hairs have been carefully selected also. 

 

Edited May 12, 2022 by Melvin- Moderator
STOP posting others pictures in this thread

[HugoX]

3 hours ago, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

We are truly sorry to hear that you have had to go through this experience. We value you and it pains us to know that you have the issues as mentioned.

There are certain points we would like to keep:

1. The direction of the transplanted hair on the temples are purposely kept down and back so that the area behind the temple points do not look bald.

2. The transplanted temple hair are thicker than the natural temple hair.

3. The natural temple hair have more vellum and baby hair whereas the transplanted temples do not.

4. The transplanted temples are 70% to 80% close to natural hair.

5. The absence of the pre existing hair in your te.ples due to baldness has also contributed to the look that has now dissatisfied you so.

6. The donor area will exhibit the absence of the extracted hair if you keep your hair very short.

However, we would request you to get in touch with us and tell us what you would want further. We would be very grateful and more than happy to comply. We wish you the best!

Is this an explanation on what could go wrong or what did go wrong? is my interpretation of this explanation correct that it is the OP fault for not knowing the points that are mentioned before hand?

like point nr 5, "The absence of the pre existing hair in your te.ples due to baldness has also contributed to the look that has now dissatisfied you so".

He was bald there before surgery, wouldn't you tell him this before surgery, oh just so you know, you are bald in this area and there is a chance it could look weird FYI.

6. "The donor area will exhibit the absence of the extracted hair if you keep your hair very short."

sure, but not for 1400 grafts and when OP have this much donor hair, this looks like any hair mills in Turkey. For 1400 grafts there should be basically no signs at all.

 

Maybe what @digi23 did with electrolysis is an option, just remove them.

Edited May 9, 2022 by HugoX

[NARMAK]

40 minutes ago, drawdownfx said:

This is an example of someone who has similar angulations to OP's hair which has hairs that come forward instead of the usual that we see which are backwards and transverse. This work has been done purposely and meticulously to give the natural look, the hairs have been carefully selected also. 

That's definitely an interesting technique on the angles but i wonder how it will look when fully matured with those angles. The calibre of the hair for temple points however is perfect. 

Angles a little too vertical for my personal taste but that's subjective to what the patient wants and people are willing to do. 

[Zinedine]

On 5/7/2022 at 3:12 PM, Captain Haddock said:

Got a fade cut today and it's interesting to note how bad my extraction looks.

At the time I got the surgery I was under the impression that it was a shock loss and a lot of people affirmed but it seems like my donor wasn't operated on carefully. 

Especially when you're just 1.4K grafts down. It shouldn't really look like this.

 

Hello @Captain Haddock, first thanks for sharing your experience. Second, sorry to see and here what has happened to you. 

What I still can not understand, how booking the Exclusive Package, something like this can happen?!?!? 

Your donor looks awful, overharvested for sure.

And, well, temples is maybe the hardest area when doing a Hair Transplant job. Doing the temples the right way is an art as many are saying and as we can see here, Eugenix does not master this at the moment. 

What I'm worried about is, what is happening to those patients NOT selecting one of the TOP packages?

 

Have you talked to them to see if they could fix this as this is for sure a mistake from their part? 
 

 

 

[Euphoria]

Wow, I received a warning for “spamming” for my post in this thread despite the OP agreed with me about his donor being butchered. 

I was really happy about finding this forum that’s neutral and wants the best of the patients but after the warning, It leaves a bad feeling in my mouth. What did I say that is spamming or untrue? 
 

His donor area is murdered and he will require repair work. If I saw him in real life, I will get my fear of patterns triggered ( it is a real condition) because it looks moth eaten.
 

What wrong have I said that I deserve a warning? Have I lied? I can’t give my opinion?

Would I have received a warning if I scolded the patient and praised the clinic? No but saying something bad about clinic has earned me this warning.

Whatever, I am glad if I receive a warning or get banned it will be because 

Edited May 9, 2022 by Euphoria

[Melvin- Admin]

2 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

Wow, I received a warning for “spamming” for my post in this thread despite the OP agreed with me about his donor being butchered. 

I was really happy about finding this forum that’s neutral and wants the best of the patients but after the warning, It leaves a bad feeling in my mouth. What did I say that is spamming or untrue? 
 

His donor area is murdered and he will require repair work. If I saw him in real life, I will get my fear of patterns triggered ( it is a real condition) because it looks moth eaten.
 

What wrong have I said that I deserve a warning? Have I lied? I can’t give my opinion?

Would I have received a warning if I scolded the patient and praised the clinic? No but saying something bad about clinic has earned me this warning.

Whatever

I warned you about your language. Calling doctors butchers is not appropriate. Many have stated their opinions without insulting. In the short time you’ve been here you’ve fear mongered minoxidil, insulted surgeons. Now you ask why? Perhaps our forum isn’t for you. 

[NARMAK]

3 minutes ago, Euphoria said:

Wow, I received a warning for “spamming” for my post in this thread despite the OP agreed with me about his donor being butchered. 

I was really happy about finding this forum that’s neutral and wants the best of the patients but after the warning, It leaves a bad feeling in my mouth. What did I say that is spamming or untrue? 
 

His donor area is murdered and he will require repair work. If I saw him in real life, I will get my fear of patterns triggered ( it is a real condition) because it looks moth eaten.
 

What wrong have I said that I deserve a warning? Have I lied? I can’t give my opinion?

Would I have received a warning if I scolded the patient and praised the clinic? No but saying something bad about clinic has earned me this warning.

Whatever

I can't speak for the warning you've received but your choice of phrasing such as "His donor area is murdered" may be a bit top extreme of an exaggeration in the eyes of some. 

 

The donor area certainly is not in line with the extremely high standard of donor management associated to Eugenix, but hopefully @Captain Haddockwill reach out to the clinic and give us an update.

You may perhaps have a very real fear of patterns in real life, but i think people generally on here may feel it comes off somewhat exaggerated if you will. 

Look, there's definitely something to be done here i feel and i do trust the correct people at Eugenix will review this and make good. 

[Melvin- Admin]

1 minute ago, NARMAK said:

I can't speak for the warning you've received but your choice of phrasing such as "His donor area is murdered" may be a bit top extreme of an exaggeration in the eyes of some. 

 

The donor area certainly is not in line with the extremely high standard of donor management associated to Eugenix, but hopefully @Captain Haddockwill reach out to the clinic and give us an update.

You may perhaps have a very real fear of patterns in real life, but i think people generally on here may feel it comes off somewhat exaggerated if you will. 

Look, there's definitely something to be done here i feel and i do trust the correct people at Eugenix will review this and make good. 

Not only exaggerating, but saying doctors are butchers is insulting. Clearly behaving on a professional forum is not for him. 

[NARMAK]

4 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Not only exaggerating, but saying doctors are butchers is insulting. Clearly behaving on a professional forum is not for him. 

I try to assume perhaps it may be due to English not being a first language and the nuance of what's being implied not understood as much but only the user in question can perhaps know their true intent. I also know it puts you in a tough spot. 

Overall though, this is about the OP and i sincerely wish he will have a great outcome with some suitable and complimentary remedial work by Eugenix. 

[digi23]

10 hours ago, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

We are truly sorry to hear that you have had to go through this experience. We value you and it pains us to know that you have the issues as mentioned.

There are certain points we would like to keep:

1. The direction of the transplanted hair on the temples are purposely kept down and back so that the area behind the temple points do not look bald.

2. The transplanted temple hair are thicker than the natural temple hair.

3. The natural temple hair have more vellus/ baby hair whereas the transplanted temples do not.

4. The transplanted temples are 70% to 80% close to natural hair and not 100%.

5. There has been a loss of pre existing hair in your temples due to baldness that has also contributed to the look that has now dissatisfied you so.

6. The donor area will exhibit the absence of the extracted hair if you keep your hair very short.

However, we would request you to get in touch with us and tell us what you would want further. We would be very grateful and more than happy to comply. We wish you the best!

Well, this is only multis in the temple, with awful angulation

[drawdownfx]

12 hours ago, NARMAK said:

That's definitely an interesting technique on the angles but i wonder how it will look when fully matured with those angles. The calibre of the hair for temple points however is perfect. 

Angles a little too vertical for my personal taste but that's subjective to what the patient wants and people are willing to do. 

The main point being that the angles are aligned with subjects natural angulations hence it all looks natural and aligned. The dude was very happy with final result so I am assuming they grow just fine 

[drawdownfx]

7 hours ago, digi23 said:

Well, this is only multis in the temple, with awful angulation

I must have missed this one as I only came across the case today but same package as captain haddock except techs did most of the extractions in this one.

The angles again are clearly not aligning here as well and it isn’t following ops natural angles. What concerns me is the similar problems with a lot of recent cases. 
 

As others have alluded to, scaling a business has unfortunately led to a reduction in quality. , I appreciate that eugenix wants to help OP but if acknowledgment and ownership of the wrong doings are not there then Would you want to risk your scalp going back to the same place? 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Melvin- Moderator
Removed photo of other person

[GeneralNorwood]

10 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I warned you about your language. Calling doctors butchers is not appropriate.

I don't see the post where he called doctor a butcher in this thread. Maybe post was deleted, idk. I only see that he was writing about butchering donor and that is different. 

I recently had HT in Eugenix and after reading drama in this thread, i started to check angulations of hair in temples - they look goood. In few days i will start my own topic. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by GeneralNorwood

[Captain Haddock]

On 5/9/2022 at 7:53 AM, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

We are truly sorry to hear that you have had to go through this experience. We value you and it pains us to know that you have the issues as mentioned.

First of all I'd like to thank you for reaching out to me, it's always good to see when clinics reach out to their patients and see to it that they're truly happy. When I chose Eugenix I was really proud of my decision, and I believe to this day that your founding surgeons are talented. But I disagree with a lot of your practices, which I believe eventually led to me having a sub par result. Below I'd like to respond to some of your comments:

On 5/9/2022 at 7:53 AM, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

The direction of the transplanted hair on the temples are purposely kept down and back so that the area behind the temple points do not look bald.

What if the natural angulation (such as in my case), is forward facing? Wouldn't this defy basic common sense and HT 101 practices such as following direction of the patient's native hair? In one of the educative videos published on your official YouTube channel, Dr Sethi clearly outlines the guiding principles of temple HT and says that temple transplants are a very customized job. He also also states that if these rules aren't followed, the result would be catastrophic. In my case, the angles weren't flat to the skin, the choice of hair was all over the place, and the angulation was 100% wrong. None of these principles were followed as the lead surgeon was clearly overloaded with work on the day of my surgery.

I specifically requested for a meeting with the surgeon on the eve of my procedure, however I was told that I would have the meeting on the next day. It was only after I changed into my surgery clothes did I even get to see Dr. Arika, and she was done with my design in next 5-10 minutes.

The bottomline is that apart from merely drawing a line around my preexisting hairline, there was no actual plan. The donor zones were not marked. The temples weren't discussed. Even the techs did not know what kind of hair to implant until I was laying face down on operating table. 

The horrible, haphazard and logic defying temple work has resulted in me having so many awkward social encounters. I've had people walk beside me and look at my temples ask what was wrong with them. I've had barbers stop their work and ask me if there was some sort of surgery done on my head. I've literally had to change the way I sit around people, always facing them towards my right to have them not come across my temple work.

Something that I notice to this day is the continuous justification of the design choice, or the lack thereof. Why is it so hard to admit that this was a design error? I've not met one person on this forum, or otherwise who would say that my temple work was aesthetic. 

Since my procedure I've come across so many other cases on this forum who have suffered the same fate on their frontal zones and on their temples.

Why sacrifice quality over quantity? The Eugenix drivers who picked me up at the airport told me that about 150 surgeries were being executed at the Gurgaon center alone every month. I understand it may be a business/investor led decision but you have to draw a line somewhere. 

It's probably why Eugenix doesn't really have a waiting list like a Dr Zarev or a Dr Couto.

On 5/9/2022 at 7:53 AM, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

5. There has been a loss of pre existing hair in your temples due to baldness that has also contributed to the look that has now dissatisfied you so.

I was dissatisfied with the look 10 days post surgery and my concerns are well documented on this forum. Nothing else has contributed to my current look. 

On 5/9/2022 at 7:53 AM, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

The transplanted temples are 70% to 80% close to natural hair and not 100%.

I understand. My expectations were in line. I would've been okay with 70% similarity but right now they are nowhere close to that mark. Not even the directions are similar. Characteristics come next. The temple work stands out in all possible ways. 

On 5/9/2022 at 7:53 AM, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

6. The donor area will exhibit the absence of the extracted hair if you keep your hair very short.

I don't agree with this at all. I've attached a picture of a patient who has had over 2.6K grafts removed and his donor looked untouched. Moreover, I'm sure you have had your own share of premium patients travelling from the west who got great donor work done as well. I've attached a picture for comparison.

During my surgery, we had two phases of extraction. They were very arbitrary and non uniform. After the first session, I found myself waiting on my surgery table along with the techs in the room for Dr. Arika to begin the second phase. We waited for about 45 minutes. I didn't know where my surgeon was. Neither did the techs. They started giving me massages to keep me busy. I was even told that Dr. Shishir would be able to extract the grafts to keep the surgery going, but I insisted that I had chosen the package that comes with Dr. Arika's work on my donor. 

It was only when I posted my surgery details on this forum did @Wandererind message me and tell me that he had a consultation with Dr. Arika at exactly at the same day, same time. It is beyond me as to why my doc would abandon me and attend to someone else who is looking to consult mid-way through the surgery. I felt abandoned during a life changing procedure. 

All this adds up, after all surgeons are humans. As the work load increases, they are bound to lose concentration, make mistakes, or in my case, over-harvest a part of my donor. If you carefully look at my donor pictures, the surgery started off with spaced out extraction, but as time passed, I had to be rushed.

On 5/9/2022 at 7:53 AM, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

However, we would request you to get in touch with us and tell us what you would want further. We would be very grateful and more than happy to comply. We wish you the best!

Thank you for your private message and for the offer of a touch up. This is what good clinics do. Had this been a surgical error, I would have happily agreed. But this was not a problem of lack of talent, ability, or bad circumstances. This was lack of standard of care. This was about being lazy. And I've seen many such cases in the recent past on this forum. And for those reasons, I am choosing not to go back to Eugenix. 

This is however, not a call for others to have a swing at the clinic or cancel their bookings.

This is just an educative post to my fellow forum members on how things can go wrong even if you have done your bit as a patient.

P.S It has come to my attention that the moderator of this forum has been removing pictures of good examples of donor extraction and temple work cited in this post, and a previous post by another user. These are cases the authors have posted publicly on this forum for others to see. There are also plenty of pictures cross referenced by others on various topics on all over this forum. I would be happy to provide links to these threads if someone is interested.

Edited May 12, 2022 by Captain Haddock

[NARMAK]

2 hours ago, Captain Haddock said:

First of all I'd like to thank you for reaching out to me, it's always good to see when clinics reach out to their patients and see to it that they're truly happy. When I chose Eugenix I was really proud of my decision, and I believe to this day that your founding surgeons are talented. But I disagree with a lot of your practices, which I believe eventually led to me having a sub par result. Below I'd like to respond to some of your comments:

What if the natural angulation (such as in my case), is forward facing? Wouldn't this defy basic common sense and HT 101 practices such as following direction of the patient's native hair? In one of the educative videos published on your official YouTube channel, Dr Sethi clearly outlines the guiding principles of temple HT and says that temple transplants are a very customized job. He also also states that if these rules aren't followed, the result would be catastrophic. In my case, the angles weren't flat to the skin, the choice of hair was all over the place, and the angulation was 100% wrong. None of these principles were followed as the lead surgeon was clearly overloaded with work on the day of my surgery.

I specifically requested for a meeting with the surgeon on the eve of my procedure, however I was told that I would have the meeting on the next day. It was only after I changed into my surgery clothes did I even get to see Dr. Arika, and she was done with my design in next 5-10 minutes.

The bottomline is that apart from merely drawing a line around my preexisting hairline, there was no actual plan. The donor zones were not marked. The temples weren't discussed. Even the techs did not know what kind of hair to implant until I was laying face down on operating table. 

The horrible, haphazard and logic defying temple work has resulted in me having so many awkward social encounters. I've had people walk beside me and look at my temples ask what was wrong with them. I've had barbers stop their work and ask me if there was some sort of surgery done on my head. I've literally had to change the way I sit around people, always facing them towards my right to have them not come across my temple work.

Something that I notice to this day is the continuous justification of the design choice, or the lack thereof. Why is it so hard to admit that this was a design error? I've not met one person on this forum, or otherwise who would say that my temple work was aesthetic. 

Since my procedure I've come across so many other cases on this forum who have suffered the same fate on their frontal zones and on their temples.

Why sacrifice quality over quantity? The Eugenix drivers who picked me up at the airport told me that about 150 surgeries were being executed at the Gurgaon center alone every month. I understand it may be a business/investor led decision but you have to draw a line somewhere. 

It's probably why Eugenix doesn't really have a waiting list like a Dr Zarev or a Dr Couto.

I was dissatisfied with the look 10 days post surgery and my concerns are well documented on this forum. Nothing else has contributed to my current look. 

I understand. My expectations were in line. I would've been okay with 70% similarity but right now they are nowhere close to that mark. Not even the directions are similar. Characteristics come next. The temple work stands out in all possible ways. 

I don't agree with this at all. I've attached a picture of a patient who has had over 2.6K grafts removed and his donor looked untouched. Moreover, I'm sure you have had your own share of premium patients travelling from the west who got great donor work done as well. I've attached a picture for comparison.

During my surgery, we had two phases of extraction. They were very arbitrary and non uniform. After the first session, I found myself waiting on my surgery table along with the techs in the room for Dr. Arika to begin the second phase. We waited for about 45 minutes. I didn't know where my surgeon was. Neither did the techs. They started giving me massages to keep me busy. I was even told that Dr. Shishir would be able to extract the grafts to keep the surgery going, but I insisted that I had chosen the package that comes with Dr. Arika's work on my donor. 

It was only when I posted my surgery details on this forum did @Wandererind message me and tell me that he had a consultation with Dr. Arika at exactly at the same day, same time. It is beyond me as to why my doc would abandon me and attend to someone else who is looking to consult mid-way through the surgery. I felt abandoned during a life changing procedure. 

All this adds up, after all surgeons are humans. As the work load increases, they are bound to lose concentration, make mistakes, or in my case, over-harvest a part of my donor. If you carefully look at my donor pictures, the surgery started off with spaced out extraction, but as time passed, I had to be rushed.

Thank you for your private message and for the offer of a touch up. This is what good clinics do. Had this been a surgical error, I would have happily agreed. But this was not a problem of lack of talent, ability, or bad circumstances. This was lack of standard of care. This was about being lazy. And I've seen many such cases in the recent past on this forum. And for those reasons, I am choosing not to go back to Eugenix. 

This is however, not a call for others to have a swing at the clinic or cancel their bookings.

This is just an educative post to my fellow forum members on how things can go wrong even if you have done your bit as a patient.

 

 

I'm sorry you had this experience and again, thank you for being honest and open with everything throughout the 12+ months for all prospective patients to see. 

I'm sorry you also do not feel Eugenix are somebody you would wish to return to and hope that you can find a suitable remedy for the issues you have faced soon. Particularly for the donor area appearance. 

Regarding the temple point angulation, i personally think the one temple you had done is near perfect looking. Putting the angle and directions more forwards may have potentially created problems when grown out but the case you have cited above shows short hair, so it's really tough to say how that would look grown out. What's more apparent to me is the quality of the hair on temples and hairline blends almost seamlessly into the existing hair and that's obviously the goal of all great clinics as a result to look natural. 

Again, sorry for your experience. I personally chose Eugenix because of their temple points and i hope they have taken everything you have said into consideration to hopefully enhance the patient journey and experience both during the procedure and post-op. 

[Captain Haddock]

2 minutes ago, NARMAK said:

Regarding the temple point angulation, i personally think the one temple you had done is near perfect looking. Putting the angle and directions more forwards may have potentially created problems when grown out but the case you have cited above shows short hair, so it's really tough to say how that would look grown out. What's more apparent to me is the quality of the hair on temples and hairline blends almost seamlessly into the existing hair and that's obviously the goal of all great clinics as a result to look natural. 

This is more so because I already came with a great set of existing hair with thick characteristics and has nothing do with the surgery. The temple on the right side only had 143 grafts implanted into it over my existing, thinning temple.

I wish you all the best for your procedure bro

[PizzaWolf]

@Captain Haddock You wrote:

"During my surgery, we had two phases of extraction. They were very arbitrary and non uniform. After the first session, I found myself waiting on my surgery table along with the techs in the room for Dr. Arika to begin the second phase. We waited for about 45 minutes. I didn't know where my surgeon was. Neither did the techs. They started giving me massages to keep me busy. I was even told that Dr. Shishir would be able to extract the grafts to keep the surgery going, but I insisted that I had chosen the package that comes with Dr. Arika's work on my donor. 

It was only when I posted my surgery details on this forum did @Wandererind message me and tell me that he had a consultation with Dr. Arika at exactly at the same day, same time. It is beyond me as to why my doc would abandon me and attend to someone else who is looking to consult mid-way through the surgery. I felt abandoned during a life changing procedure. "

 

It's really disappointing, and probably disturbing, that you had this experience. Very unprofessional on the part of Eugenix. I hope you're able to fix these issues with your hair and get it to a place that you're happy with again.

Knowing what you know now, are there any red flags that stood out when you were researching or scheduling for surgery? What do you feel an appropriate number of surgeries per day is? What are you going to look for going forward in a repair surgeon?

Thank you for posting a really transparent and honest experience.

[Hairy Henderson]

4 hours ago, Captain Haddock said:

First of all I'd like to thank you for reaching out to me, it's always good to see when clinics reach out to their patients and see to it that they're truly happy. When I chose Eugenix I was really proud of my decision, and I believe to this day that your founding surgeons are talented. But I disagree with a lot of your practices, which I believe eventually led to me having a sub par result. Below I'd like to respond to some of your comments:

What if the natural angulation (such as in my case), is forward facing? Wouldn't this defy basic common sense and HT 101 practices such as following direction of the patient's native hair? In one of the educative videos published on your official YouTube channel, Dr Sethi clearly outlines the guiding principles of temple HT and says that temple transplants are a very customized job. He also also states that if these rules aren't followed, the result would be catastrophic. In my case, the angles weren't flat to the skin, the choice of hair was all over the place, and the angulation was 100% wrong. None of these principles were followed as the lead surgeon was clearly overloaded with work on the day of my surgery.

I specifically requested for a meeting with the surgeon on the eve of my procedure, however I was told that I would have the meeting on the next day. It was only after I changed into my surgery clothes did I even get to see Dr. Arika, and she was done with my design in next 5-10 minutes.

The bottomline is that apart from merely drawing a line around my preexisting hairline, there was no actual plan. The donor zones were not marked. The temples weren't discussed. Even the techs did not know what kind of hair to implant until I was laying face down on operating table. 

The horrible, haphazard and logic defying temple work has resulted in me having so many awkward social encounters. I've had people walk beside me and look at my temples ask what was wrong with them. I've had barbers stop their work and ask me if there was some sort of surgery done on my head. I've literally had to change the way I sit around people, always facing them towards my right to have them not come across my temple work.

Something that I notice to this day is the continuous justification of the design choice, or the lack thereof. Why is it so hard to admit that this was a design error? I've not met one person on this forum, or otherwise who would say that my temple work was aesthetic. 

Since my procedure I've come across so many other cases on this forum who have suffered the same fate on their frontal zones and on their temples.

Why sacrifice quality over quantity? The Eugenix drivers who picked me up at the airport told me that about 150 surgeries were being executed at the Gurgaon center alone every month. I understand it may be a business/investor led decision but you have to draw a line somewhere. 

It's probably why Eugenix doesn't really have a waiting list like a Dr Zarev or a Dr Couto.

I was dissatisfied with the look 10 days post surgery and my concerns are well documented on this forum. Nothing else has contributed to my current look. 

I understand. My expectations were in line. I would've been okay with 70% similarity but right now they are nowhere close to that mark. Not even the directions are similar. Characteristics come next. The temple work stands out in all possible ways. 

I don't agree with this at all. I've attached a picture of a patient who has had over 2.6K grafts removed and his donor looked untouched. Moreover, I'm sure you have had your own share of premium patients travelling from the west who got great donor work done as well. I've attached a picture for comparison.

During my surgery, we had two phases of extraction. They were very arbitrary and non uniform. After the first session, I found myself waiting on my surgery table along with the techs in the room for Dr. Arika to begin the second phase. We waited for about 45 minutes. I didn't know where my surgeon was. Neither did the techs. They started giving me massages to keep me busy. I was even told that Dr. Shishir would be able to extract the grafts to keep the surgery going, but I insisted that I had chosen the package that comes with Dr. Arika's work on my donor. 

It was only when I posted my surgery details on this forum did @Wandererind message me and tell me that he had a consultation with Dr. Arika at exactly at the same day, same time. It is beyond me as to why my doc would abandon me and attend to someone else who is looking to consult mid-way through the surgery. I felt abandoned during a life changing procedure. 

All this adds up, after all surgeons are humans. As the work load increases, they are bound to lose concentration, make mistakes, or in my case, over-harvest a part of my donor. If you carefully look at my donor pictures, the surgery started off with spaced out extraction, but as time passed, I had to be rushed.

Thank you for your private message and for the offer of a touch up. This is what good clinics do. Had this been a surgical error, I would have happily agreed. But this was not a problem of lack of talent, ability, or bad circumstances. This was lack of standard of care. This was about being lazy. And I've seen many such cases in the recent past on this forum. And for those reasons, I am choosing not to go back to Eugenix. 

This is however, not a call for others to have a swing at the clinic or cancel their bookings.

This is just an educative post to my fellow forum members on how things can go wrong even if you have done your bit as a patient.

P.S It has come to my attention that the moderator of this forum has been removing pictures of good examples of donor extraction and temple work cited in this post, and a previous post by another user. These are cases the authors have posted publicly on this forum for others to see. There are also plenty of pictures cross referenced by others on various topics on all over this forum. I would be happy to provide links to these threads if someone is interested as we're dealing with a conflict of interest. The moderator is himself a patient at the said clinic.

Excellent write-up.  

[drawdownfx]

7 hours ago, Captain Haddock said:

First of all I'd like to thank you for reaching out to me, it's always good to see when clinics reach out to their patients and see to it that they're truly happy. When I chose Eugenix I was really proud of my decision, and I believe to this day that your founding surgeons are talented. But I disagree with a lot of your practices, which I believe eventually led to me having a sub par result. Below I'd like to respond to some of your comments:

What if the natural angulation (such as in my case), is forward facing? Wouldn't this defy basic common sense and HT 101 practices such as following direction of the patient's native hair? In one of the educative videos published on your official YouTube channel, Dr Sethi clearly outlines the guiding principles of temple HT and says that temple transplants are a very customized job. He also also states that if these rules aren't followed, the result would be catastrophic. In my case, the angles weren't flat to the skin, the choice of hair was all over the place, and the angulation was 100% wrong. None of these principles were followed as the lead surgeon was clearly overloaded with work on the day of my surgery.

I specifically requested for a meeting with the surgeon on the eve of my procedure, however I was told that I would have the meeting on the next day. It was only after I changed into my surgery clothes did I even get to see Dr. Arika, and she was done with my design in next 5-10 minutes.

The bottomline is that apart from merely drawing a line around my preexisting hairline, there was no actual plan. The donor zones were not marked. The temples weren't discussed. Even the techs did not know what kind of hair to implant until I was laying face down on operating table. 

The horrible, haphazard and logic defying temple work has resulted in me having so many awkward social encounters. I've had people walk beside me and look at my temples ask what was wrong with them. I've had barbers stop their work and ask me if there was some sort of surgery done on my head. I've literally had to change the way I sit around people, always facing them towards my right to have them not come across my temple work.

Something that I notice to this day is the continuous justification of the design choice, or the lack thereof. Why is it so hard to admit that this was a design error? I've not met one person on this forum, or otherwise who would say that my temple work was aesthetic. 

Since my procedure I've come across so many other cases on this forum who have suffered the same fate on their frontal zones and on their temples.

Why sacrifice quality over quantity? The Eugenix drivers who picked me up at the airport told me that about 150 surgeries were being executed at the Gurgaon center alone every month. I understand it may be a business/investor led decision but you have to draw a line somewhere. 

It's probably why Eugenix doesn't really have a waiting list like a Dr Zarev or a Dr Couto.

I was dissatisfied with the look 10 days post surgery and my concerns are well documented on this forum. Nothing else has contributed to my current look. 

I understand. My expectations were in line. I would've been okay with 70% similarity but right now they are nowhere close to that mark. Not even the directions are similar. Characteristics come next. The temple work stands out in all possible ways. 

I don't agree with this at all. I've attached a picture of a patient who has had over 2.6K grafts removed and his donor looked untouched. Moreover, I'm sure you have had your own share of premium patients travelling from the west who got great donor work done as well. I've attached a picture for comparison.

During my surgery, we had two phases of extraction. They were very arbitrary and non uniform. After the first session, I found myself waiting on my surgery table along with the techs in the room for Dr. Arika to begin the second phase. We waited for about 45 minutes. I didn't know where my surgeon was. Neither did the techs. They started giving me massages to keep me busy. I was even told that Dr. Shishir would be able to extract the grafts to keep the surgery going, but I insisted that I had chosen the package that comes with Dr. Arika's work on my donor. 

It was only when I posted my surgery details on this forum did @Wandererind message me and tell me that he had a consultation with Dr. Arika at exactly at the same day, same time. It is beyond me as to why my doc would abandon me and attend to someone else who is looking to consult mid-way through the surgery. I felt abandoned during a life changing procedure. 

All this adds up, after all surgeons are humans. As the work load increases, they are bound to lose concentration, make mistakes, or in my case, over-harvest a part of my donor. If you carefully look at my donor pictures, the surgery started off with spaced out extraction, but as time passed, I had to be rushed.

Thank you for your private message and for the offer of a touch up. This is what good clinics do. Had this been a surgical error, I would have happily agreed. But this was not a problem of lack of talent, ability, or bad circumstances. This was lack of standard of care. This was about being lazy. And I've seen many such cases in the recent past on this forum. And for those reasons, I am choosing not to go back to Eugenix. 

This is however, not a call for others to have a swing at the clinic or cancel their bookings.

This is just an educative post to my fellow forum members on how things can go wrong even if you have done your bit as a patient.

P.S It has come to my attention that the moderator of this forum has been removing pictures of good examples of donor extraction and temple work cited in this post, and a previous post by another user. These are cases the authors have posted publicly on this forum for others to see. There are also plenty of pictures cross referenced by others on various topics on all over this forum. I would be happy to provide links to these threads if someone is interested as we're dealing with a conflict of interest. The moderator is himself a patient at the said clinic.

Thank you so much for this write up. I had a picture removed in my previous post above and I won't get into whether the mod should or shouldn't allow for public pictures to be posted on another thread, I understand it's a grey area but the picture showed similar lack of care in temple areas. The intricate details are very very much appreciated and it connects the dots on why your surgery was the way it was. You have great hair characteristics but that does not mean NO planning is required to execute a fine job, the number of surgeries in a day clearly highlight why this aspect was rushed. Your surgeon being in the process of consulting another patient whilst you lay there waiting is also extremely unprofessional and shows lack of care and personal touch.

Based on everything you said here I no longer have the same confidence in Eugenix to perform surgery with good care and will be cancelling my surgery with Dr Sethi. Thank you for documenting your work with so much transparency and detail it helps everyone of us in deciding who touches our scalp. 

Edited May 11, 2022 by drawdownfx

[Berba11]

2 hours ago, drawdownfx said:

Thank you so much for this write up. I had a picture removed in my previous post above and I won't get into whether the mod should or shouldn't allow for public pictures to be posted on another thread, I understand it's a grey area but the picture showed similar lack of care in temple areas. The intricate details are very very much appreciated and it connects the dots on why your surgery was the way it was. You have great hair characteristics but that does not mean NO planning is required to execute a fine job, the number of surgeries in a day clearly highlight why this aspect was rushed. Your surgeon being in the process of consulting another patient whilst you lay there waiting is also extremely unprofessional and shows lack of care and personal touch.

Based on everything you said here I no longer have the same confidence in Eugenix to perform surgery with good care and will be cancelling my surgery with Dr Sethi. Thank you for documenting your work with so much transparency and detail it helps everyone of us in deciding who touches our scalp. 

I recognise some of the things @Captain Haddockhas mentioned with regards to my own experience at Eugenix. What has happened since my own surgery back in late November is that Dr Arika is no longer on either of the lowest two packages, presumably because her involvement across multiple packages/surgeries per day was untenable and unsustainable. She can't be in every room at once and looking at the evolution of their packages, they seem to be addressing that, which is positive.

When I was having my hairline designed, Dr Arika was in and out, bouncing between designing my hairline and one or two other patients who were in that morning. It's not hard, therefore, to see why design issues might crop up. But again, hopefully that has now been addressed with their changes to the packages.

What I would say about your own booking with Dr Pradeep is that Dr P, as I understand, doesn't do that many HT's these days. Dr Arika told me that he mostly does difficult or special cases + other work like talks and so on. If you're booked with Dr Pradeep I imagine you're in the best possible hands and will get the required attention as it's unlikely he'd be dealing with multiple patients at the same time. To my knowledge, there aren't any cases on this forum where there's any level of dissatisfaction with a HT when Dr Pradeep has been involved, which makes sense given he's only on the highest package by request. Conversely, Dr Arika has previously been stretched across multiple packages and that appears to be where standards have slipped.

[stephcurry30]

On 5/9/2022 at 8:21 AM, Zinedine said:

Hello @Captain Haddock, first thanks for sharing your experience. Second, sorry to see and here what has happened to you. 

What I still can not understand, how booking the Exclusive Package, something like this can happen?!?!? 

Your donor looks awful, overharvested for sure.

And, well, temples is maybe the hardest area when doing a Hair Transplant job. Doing the temples the right way is an art as many are saying and as we can see here, Eugenix does not master this at the moment. 

What I'm worried about is, what is happening to those patients NOT selecting one of the TOP packages?

 

Have you talked to them to see if they could fix this as this is for sure a mistake from their part? 
 

 

 

I would definitely get in touch with a clinic and see if this can be repaired. I would never go to a clinic that offers packers at different pricing. I want the same level of effort for each graft continuously and for every patient. I am praying for you OP and hope this can get resolved with a partial refund or a revision. 

[GeneralNorwood]

12 hours ago, stephcurry30 said:

I would definitely get in touch with a clinic and see if this can be repaired. I would never go to a clinic that offers packers at different pricing.

So why you are advising to get in touch with clinic that offers packers at dfferent pricing? 

In my opinion, different packages is good option in case of Eugenix, because if everyone wanted to make HT with Dr Sethi, waiting list would be at least 2-3 years and then you wait 1 year for the result... It doesn't make sense, life is too short. 

[drawdownfx]

On 5/11/2022 at 10:44 AM, Berba11 said:

I recognise some of the things @Captain Haddockhas mentioned with regards to my own experience at Eugenix. What has happened since my own surgery back in late November is that Dr Arika is no longer on either of the lowest two packages, presumably because her involvement across multiple packages/surgeries per day was untenable and unsustainable. She can't be in every room at once and looking at the evolution of their packages, they seem to be addressing that, which is positive.

When I was having my hairline designed, Dr Arika was in and out, bouncing between designing my hairline and one or two other patients who were in that morning. It's not hard, therefore, to see why design issues might crop up. But again, hopefully that has now been addressed with their changes to the packages.

What I would say about your own booking with Dr Pradeep is that Dr P, as I understand, doesn't do that many HT's these days. Dr Arika told me that he mostly does difficult or special cases + other work like talks and so on. If you're booked with Dr Pradeep I imagine you're in the best possible hands and will get the required attention as it's unlikely he'd be dealing with multiple patients at the same time. To my knowledge, there aren't any cases on this forum where there's any level of dissatisfaction with a HT when Dr Pradeep has been involved, which makes sense given he's only on the highest package by request. Conversely, Dr Arika has previously been stretched across multiple packages and that appears to be where standards have slipped.

Yeah I don't see how they thought this would be feasible in the first place. HT is a customised job and every case is different just like they mention on youtube yet they have a stressful process set for both the doctor and patient. I initially was going to go to Vera clinic in turkey (before doing all the research) and one feedback I heard was that everyone was treated like a number just sat in a queue. This sounded awfully similar with Dr Arika just walking up to every patient drawing their hairlines and it lacks the personal touch. I do hope they have reduced her strain so she can focus on patients properly like every customer deserves.

I understand what you saying about Dr Pradeep but after all the recent cases I feel hesistant and will be looking to go Europe for my next case. My belief after researching is that packages/scaling a hair transplant business is inversely correlated with the artistry required for a hair transplant. They can't go together and I know many share this same sentiment.

Edited May 13, 2022 by drawdownfx

[Captain Haddock]

On 5/11/2022 at 4:45 AM, PizzaWolf said:

Knowing what you know now, are there any red flags that stood out when you were researching or scheduling for surgery?

Excellent question.

I guess the usual phase for a prospective patient would be to scan through results and lock-in on a clinic, but the most important part would to query and find out if the doctor takes any interest in you at all. Knowing what I know now, I would:

1. Gauge the doctor's interest in my individual case. How much time does the doctor take out to study my case? This could be assessed during your consultations.

I had two paid consultations with both the founding surgeons of Eugenix:

For the first consultation, I flew out from a different city to meet Dr. Pradeep Sethi. When I got to clinic at the scheduled time, Dr. Sethi briefly greeted me, and then got busy with another patient during my scheduled consultation time. I was made to sit in a room by myself for about 60 minutes, before the receptionist Mr. Imran was sent to provide me company. I spent another 30 minutes with him, being told about how successful the other patient was and about the wealthy companies he owned, essentially implying that he was more important than me at the time. I had a flight to catch after a couple of hours and this is when Dr. Sethi was finally available and spent about 15 minutes with me, before I had to rush. 

The second consultation was with Dr. Arika, which was supposed to be a video call, but they suffered a connection drop at their end and it was reduced to merely a phone call that lasted about 5 minutes in which nothing substantial could be discussed. 

Lessons: If your doctor doesn't take much interest in your case nor has enough time to assess you in your consultation, they probably won't have time for you on the day of your surgery either. 

2. Gauge the doctor's availability. Find out specifically about how much time the doctor would be spending with you planning the surgery on the day of the procedure. Ask if there are other patients would undergo surgeries on the same day, and if yes, how many? How would the clinic manage resources? What is their contingency plan if certain patients need special focus?

Lessons: Most of us presume that our surgeons would be completely available to us on our most important day, but this is a big mistake. 

3. Surgery Plan. Have you been given a solid surgery plan before you commit? How detailed is this plan? A plan doesn't mean a few lines drawn on pictures you sent over email. Find out how the hairline is going to be implanted, how many rows of singles, your temples, your donor. Everything. Does the doctor take your future into consideration? It's almost like a job interview. 

On 5/11/2022 at 4:45 AM, PizzaWolf said:

What do you feel an appropriate number of surgeries per day is? What are you going to look for going forward in a repair surgeon?

I think it really depends on how you would define a clinic. Is a clinic a business or a medical practice? As a medical practice scaling isn't going to help patients one bit. It isn't a good feeling to know that the doctor has other patients on their mind whilst you are laying on the operating table. Scaling is a strict no-no for me from a patient perspective. But this doesn't mean that doctors or clinics can't make money, they simply have to set a premium price on the work they do. A lot of clinics haven't scaled in Europe and the USA. They are run by a single primary surgeon. 

But at the same time we live in market economy and the cosmetic industry is a lucrative business. Clinics have all the freedom in the world to scale and churn out surgeries. Bad cases can be handled well if you have the right marketing agency and PR team in place. 

The question is, what are you, as a patient going to choose? 

On 5/11/2022 at 10:44 AM, Berba11 said:

What has happened since my own surgery back in late November is that Dr Arika is no longer on either of the lowest two packages, presumably because her involvement across multiple packages/surgeries per day was untenable and unsustainable. She can't be in every room at once and looking at the evolution of their packages, they seem to be addressing that, which is positive.

I don't find this to be accurate. The number of packages Dr. Arika was involved in at the time of my surgery was 1. Now it is 2+. Additional packages ensure that a larger pie of the market is accessible to Eugenix. You now have hierarchy in the organisation with junior/senior techs and doctors and a wide variety of skill sets thus introducing more variability and uncertainty in your HT. This is something I personally wouldn't want as a patient. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Captain Haddock

[drawdownfx]

7 hours ago, Captain Haddock said:

Excellent question.

I guess the usual phase for a prospective patient would be to scan through results and lock-in on a clinic, but the most important part would to query and find out if the doctor takes any interest in you at all. Knowing what I know now, I would:

1. Gauge the doctor's interest in my individual case. How much time does the doctor take out to study my case? This could be assessed during your consultations.

I had two paid consultations with both the founding surgeons of Eugenix:

For the first consultation, I flew out from a different city to meet Dr. Pradeep Sethi. When I got to clinic at the scheduled time, Dr. Sethi briefly greeted me, and then got busy with another patient during my scheduled consultation time. I was made to sit in a room by myself for about 60 minutes, before the receptionist Mr. Imran was sent to provide me company. I spent another 30 minutes with him, being told about how successful the other patient was and about the wealthy companies he owned, essentially implying that he was more important than me at the time. I had a flight to catch after a couple of hours and this is when Dr. Sethi was finally available and spent about 15 minutes with me, before I had to rush. 

The second consultation was with Dr. Arika, which was supposed to be a video call, but they suffered a connection drop at their end and it was reduced to merely a phone call that lasted about 5 minutes in which nothing substantial could be discussed. 

Lessons: If your doctor doesn't take much interest in your case nor has enough time to assess you in your consultation, they probably won't have time for you on the day of your surgery either. 

2. Gauge the doctor's availability. Find out specifically about how much time the doctor would be spending with you planning the surgery on the day of the procedure. Ask if there are other patients would undergo surgeries on the same day, and if yes, how many? How would the clinic manage resources? What is their contingency plan if certain patients need special focus?

Lessons: Most of us presume that our surgeons would be completely available to us on our most important day, but this is a big mistake. 

3. Surgery Plan. Have you been given a solid surgery plan before you commit? How detailed is this plan? A plan doesn't mean a few lines drawn on pictures you sent over email. Find out how the hairline is going to be implanted, how many rows of singles, your temples, your donor. Everything. Does the doctor take your future into consideration? It's almost like a job interview. 

I think it really depends on how you would define a clinic. Is a clinic a business or a medical practice? As a medical practice scaling isn't going to help patients one bit. It isn't a good feeling to know that the doctor has other patients on their mind whilst you are laying on the operating table. Scaling is a strict no-no for me from a patient perspective. But this doesn't mean that doctors or clinics can't make money, they simply have to set a premium price on the work they do. A lot of clinics haven't scaled in Europe and the USA. They are run by a single primary surgeon. 

But at the same time we live in market economy and the cosmetic industry is a lucrative business. Clinics have all the freedom in the world to scale and churn out surgeries. Bad cases can be handled well if you have the right marketing agency and PR team in place. 

The question is, what are you, as a patient going to choose? 

I don't find this to be accurate. The number of packages Dr. Arika was involved in at the time of my surgery was 1. Now it is 2+. Additional packages ensure that a larger pie of the market is accessible to Eugenix. You now have hierarchy in the organisation with junior/senior techs and doctors and a wide variety of skill sets thus introducing more variability and uncertainty in your HT. This is something I personally wouldn't want as a patient. 

Thanks a lot. This will help more people than you know.