Dr. Konior 1600ish graft Session 10/07/20 28yr old

[giegnosiganoe]

I'm not sure what's confusing about what I said. I can empathize that it probably doesn't feel great when someone is questioning your surgeon, but I think this discussion can be valuable. I can always bring this up outside of your thread if you don't want it discussed here @MagnificentAl

1 hour ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Stop listening to the so-called industry standard “experts” on this forum who’ve only been here for a few months. 

FUE by nature causes sub-dermal scarring, that will make further extractions/surgeries more difficult. For this reason, some surgeons preserve a section of the donor, so that future procedures can be done optimally.

I believe @1978matt had a section of his donor preserved, so that he can still get another strip in the future, without any sub-dermal scarring or depletion. In other words, he still has pristine hair for a future strip. Just because you don’t see scarring with FUE does not mean, there isn’t scarring below the surface of the skin. 

I don't buy this, it just doesn't make sense to me intuitively. Are you saying that an FUE extraction performed by a top surgeon like Konior is likely to negatively affect the neighboring grafts? I find that hard to believe, but let's go along with it. And that by doing the extractions closer to each other (say by extracting from only one side of the head), then number of affected neighboring grafts is reduced? But then you'd have to also accept that the negative effect on each neighboring graft then increased?

5 minutes ago, BDK081522 said:

Where did you surmise that he only extracted from the back and one side? I'm fairly certain Dr Konior extracted uniformly throughout this patient's entire donor area. The most important aspect is that we can't actually tell from looking at his donor. The extractions are imperceptible.  Hopefully @MagnificentAlcan clarify. Despite what you may have read here or from other threads on this forum, extraction from only one area thereby leaving other areas untouched for future procedures is not industry standard. In fact, each case is unique and as such, a competent surgeon extracts in a manner to show the least visible signs of graft removal. It's just plan inaccurate to suggest otherwise. 

OP talked about it in his post-op video - watch it from 3:40:

https://youtu.be/Qk_vr1IUEsQ?t=220

 

[BDK081522]

2 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Stop listening to the so-called industry standard “experts” on this forum who’ve only been here for a few months. 

FUE by nature causes sub-dermal scarring, that will make further extractions/surgeries more difficult. For this reason, some surgeons preserve a section of the donor, so that future procedures can be done optimally.

I believe @1978matt had a section of his donor preserved, so that he can still get another strip in the future, without any sub-dermal scarring or depletion. In other words, he still has pristine hair for a future strip. Just because you don’t see scarring with FUE does not mean, there isn’t scarring below the surface of the skin. 

Just because some surgeons "preserve" a section of donor does not mean that it is neither correct or the industry standard. On a virgin FUE donor it is not correct to concentrate extractions to one area to "preserve" donor for the future. The extractions should be uniformly spread through the entire donor zone thereby minimizing trauma to adjacent follicles and spreading out the scaring. As a result, there is visibly less barren areas where the follicles have been taken from thereby allowing the donor to look unscathed from a distance. You used @1978matt as an example however, what you didn't mention was that he had an FUT initially. This changes the whole logistics of the extraction pattern. It is much more difficult to take an FUT strip from a previous FUE extraction zone. It can be done but the yield will be lower as there just aren't as many grafts available for the strip. If Dr. Konior left some of his donor untouched during the FUE I'm sure it had to do with his previous FUT. I just think it's a bit frivolous to tell newbies that it's standard operating procedure to only harvest from one area as opposed to a uniform extraction pattern for a virgin FUE donor. 

[MagnificentAl]

Yes, it is true he only took from my right side and back. 

[BDK081522]

51 minutes ago, giegnosiganoe said:

I'm not sure what's confusing about what I said. I can empathize that it probably doesn't feel great when someone is questioning your surgeon, but I think this discussion can be valuable. I can always bring this up outside of your thread if you don't want it discussed here @MagnificentAl

I don't buy this, it just doesn't make sense to me intuitively. Are you saying that an FUE extraction performed by a top surgeon like Konior is likely to negatively affect the neighboring grafts? I find that hard to believe, but let's go along with it. And that by doing the extractions closer to each other (say by extracting from only one side of the head), then number of affected neighboring grafts is reduced? But then you'd have to also accept that the negative effect on each neighboring graft then increased?

OP talked about it in his post-op video - watch it from 3:40:

https://youtu.be/Qk_vr1IUEsQ?t=220

 

Got it. I went back and watched the video and he did mention that there were extractions from the back and one side. However if you look at where they're taken from they are very spaced out. My guess is since this was such a small 1600 graft procedure Dr Konior didn't need to go all the way to the other side because he was able to leave enough space in between extractions due to the lower count needed. All my own speculation, but you can clearly see he didn't just extract from one concentrated area. 

[MagnificentAl]

Curious how much this really matters. Tagging @Melvin-Moderatorsince he is pretty knowledgeable and has read a lot of posts here.

[MagnificentAl]

Donor today 

[giegnosiganoe]

@MagnificentAl like I said before, because you have such good donor/hair characteristics, it shouldn't matter. But that's why I asked if you're able to notice any difference, either by touching your hair or by looking at each side in the mirror.

I'm mainly worried about if someone like me (with a weaker than average donor) was given the same extraction pattern, because then difference between the two sides would be more obvious.

36 minutes ago, BDK081522 said:

Got it. I went back and watched the video and he did mention that there were extractions from the back and one side. However if you look at where they're taken from they are very spaced out. My guess is since this was such a small 1600 graft procedure Dr Konior didn't need to go all the way to the other side because he was able to leave enough space in between extractions due to the lower count needed. All my own speculation, but you can clearly see he didn't just extract from one concentrated area. 

Yeah I can see that. If it were my call, I'd prefer a uniform extraction pattern though. I would be annoyed to discover this after the extractions are finished.

[Taken4Granted]

That’s gonna be a nice result. I think it’s good that you shed so fast. Keep us posted.

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, MagnificentAl said:

Curious how much this really matters. Tagging @Melvin-Moderatorsince he is pretty knowledgeable and has read a lot of posts here.

It looks great, contrary to what you read from posters who constantly discuss "industry standards" I've seen this many times. There is actually some really good information written by Dr. Bloxham about the issues that can occur from FUE beneath the surface of the skin that compromises future procedures. I will be talking with Dr. William Lindsey on Tuesday the 17th on Instagram live, and I will definitely bring this issue up to get his thoughts. To quote Dr. Konior "be wary of anyone preaching dogmatic views." 

There is no one size fits all, as I've mentioned in another thread, I've seen quite a few surgeons extract form one side when the patient needs below 2,000 grafts. Contrary to what you read from forum "experts" it is not because Dr. Konior was being lazy or was rushing you. Now you have a portion of your donor pristine and untouched. If you wanted, you could probably still get a strip procedure from the other side. I have been on these forums for over 6 years, I have personally talked with over a dozen surgeons in detail about protocols, surgical nuances, etc. I don't appoint myself the know-it-all expert. Part of learning is being open and receptive. 

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, BDK081522 said:

Just because some surgeons "preserve" a section of donor does not mean that it is neither correct or the industry standard. On a virgin FUE donor it is not correct to concentrate extractions to one area to "preserve" donor for the future. The extractions should be uniformly spread through the entire donor zone thereby minimizing trauma to adjacent follicles and spreading out the scaring. As a result, there is visibly less barren areas where the follicles have been taken from thereby allowing the donor to look unscathed from a distance. You used @1978matt as an example however, what you didn't mention was that he had an FUT initially. This changes the whole logistics of the extraction pattern. It is much more difficult to take an FUT strip from a previous FUE extraction zone. It can be done but the yield will be lower as there just aren't as many grafts available for the strip. If Dr. Konior left some of his donor untouched during the FUE I'm sure it had to do with his previous FUT. I just think it's a bit frivolous to tell newbies that it's standard operating procedure to only harvest from one area as opposed to a uniform extraction pattern for a virgin FUE donor. 

 

1 hour ago, BDK081522 said:

Got it. I went back and watched the video and he did mention that there were extractions from the back and one side. However if you look at where they're taken from they are very spaced out. My guess is since this was such a small 1600 graft procedure Dr Konior didn't need to go all the way to the other side because he was able to leave enough space in between extractions due to the lower count needed. All my own speculation, but you can clearly see he didn't just extract from one concentrated area. 

So basically one side. 

You just said what I said in another thread, except this time it's a surgeon you respect. I have never said that it is standard practice. I haven't appointed myself the authority on surgical and industry standards. In fact, I have always said that there is no one-size-fits-all for surgery. That includes the notion of a so-called "universal safe zone" when I met with Dr. Konior back in August 2018, he took a look my donor, and he said he could take hair from my nape. He saw no miniaturization there, conventional so-called 'industry standards' would dictate that this is a no-no. Is that being negligent? No, it's looking at a case individually.

Dr. Hasson is often criticized for taking the strip high up near the lateral humps. For the life of me, I don't understand how people don't realize that everyone is different. For some, that could be problematic, for others it won't. Things need to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. Do we all have the same balding pattern? No. Will we all end up with the same amount of hair loss? No.

Is it possible that we may not know everything? I'm directing this to the entire community. Are we open to learning, are we able to be objective without inserting inherent biases. It's damn hard to do, I know. But we all benefit if we do.

[jimcraig152]

1 hour ago, MagnificentAl said:

Curious how much this really matters. Tagging @Melvin-Moderatorsince he is pretty knowledgeable and has read a lot of posts here.

The goal of FUE and why you pay the extra premium is less visible scarring allowing for the flexibility to wear shorter hairstyles. How this is executed by a particular surgeon on a patient by patient basis varies widely as you know. Dr. Konior has put on a clinic with your donor. I couldn't even see excisions even from your early posts. I am like "1600 units excised? From where? Your spare body parts clone growing in the bacta tank?" I didn't even know your donors were extracted asymmetrically until it was just mentioned. I didn't even believe it until you confirmed it. Remarkable. This calls for a new award:

The Most Desirable Virgin Donor Award presented by Adriana Lima. It is going to be a long time before someone else wins this award.

[tressful11]

Wow! That donor looks absolutely pristine and untouched. So this is what top surgeons mean when they say you can get back to work within a week or two. Most people won't be able to tell you had something done.
Absolutely mind blowing. I sometimes wish I had the resources to afford a top HT surgeon 🤣

[BDK081522]

10 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

 

So basically one side. 

You just said what I said in another thread, except this time it's a surgeon you respect. I have never said that it is standard practice. I haven't appointed myself the authority on surgical and industry standards. In fact, I have always said that there is no one-size-fits-all for surgery. That includes the notion of a so-called "universal safe zone" when I met with Dr. Konior back in August 2018, he took a look my donor, and he said he could take hair from my nape. He saw no miniaturization there, conventional so-called 'industry standards' would dictate that this is a no-no. Is that being negligent? No, it's looking at a case individually.

Dr. Hasson is often criticized for taking the strip high up near the lateral humps. For the life of me, I don't understand how people don't realize that everyone is different. For some, that could be problematic, for others it won't. Things need to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. Do we all have the same balding pattern? No. Will we all end up with the same amount of hair loss? No.

Is it possible that we may not know everything? I'm directing this to the entire community. Are we open to learning, are we able to be objective without inserting inherent biases. It's damn hard to do, I know. But we all benefit if we do.

We're all just trying to gather as much information as we can and I agree with much of what you say. It's 100% true that each case is unique and as such should be treated that way. I've said that many times. The best surgeons in the world take this approach. That being said, there are guidelines to follow for best possible outcomes. When these guidelines are deviated from too far you can get sub-optimal results. Of course there's many ways to skin a cat but through years of trials and tribulations the best surgeons have developed best practices. There is no universal safe zone. This has been established, however, extracting from a concentrated area on one side of the head of a virgin scalp for a larger FUE case is just not best practice. And I disagree with your comment "so basically one side". The extractions have been spread out evenly throughout the posterior and occipital side of the patient's head. Not just one side. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by BDK081522

[Hairgain22]

2 hours ago, BDK081522 said:

We're all just trying to gather as much information as we can and I agree with much of what you say. It's 100% true that each case is unique and as such should be treated that way. I've said that many times. The best surgeons in the world take this approach. That being said, there are guidelines to follow for best possible outcomes. When these guidelines are deviated from too far you can get sub-optimal results. Of course there's many ways to skin a cat but through years of trials and tribulations the best surgeons have developed best practices. There is no universal safe zone. This has been established, however, extracting from a concentrated area on one side of the head of a virgin scalp for a larger FUE case is just not best practice. And I disagree with your comment "so basically one side". The extractions have been spread out evenly throughout the posterior and occipital side of the patient's head. Not just one side. 

Come on mate, you know darn well that’s one side of the head. 

One thing I’ve come across in this forum is deep biases. One surgeon does one thing, he’s bad, poor technique, lazy, etc. The forum darling does the same thing, excuses, excuses, to the point where people are saying it’s not one side 😂 

You have two sides on your scalp the left and the right, if you only do one, its one side. I mean c’mon this is obvious.

[Melvin- Admin]

@BDK081522 best practices are individual to the patient. I like that we question practices and protocols, that is absolutely necessary, it does keep accountability. But there is a fine line between questioning a protocol and appointing yourself the authority (not you in particular but the community in general). I will be speaking with Dr. Lindsey on Tuesday at 1PM EST on Instagram, I suggest you all join me, it will be educational, be open and receptive. 

Guys,

Now, we are completely de-railing @MagnificentAl thread with what happened in another thread.  This thread isn't about best practices, it's about Al's progress and journey. This stops now. I hope i've made myself clear.

[Hairgain22]

2 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

@BDK081522 best practices are individual to the patient. I like that we question practices and protocols, that is absolutely necessary, it does keep accountability. But there is a fine line between questioning a protocol and appointing yourself the authority (not you in particular but the community in general). I will be speaking with Dr. Lindsey on Tuesday at 1PM EST on Instagram, I suggest you all join me, it will be educational, be open and receptive. 

Guys,

Now, we are completely de-railing @MagnificentAl thread with what happened in another thread.  This thread isn't about best practices, it's about Al's progress and journey. This stops now. I hope i've made myself clear.

Fair enough, just thought I’d prove a point. 

[smurf]

work of art

[Mycroft]

On 11/11/2020 at 1:52 PM, MagnificentAl said:

Random, but I’m sure many of you guys went through this, but how are you all that are single going on about dating?

 

On 11/11/2020 at 5:13 PM, Melvin-Moderator said:

By the way @Mycroft is our regional dating app expert. I think this is a good topic to discuss. Hopefully he chimes in.

I will be as honest as possible based on my experiences and what I'm seeing from your photos @MagnificentAl. 

As a disclaimer, let me say that your pattern of loss/recession is one of the more aesthetic options (if there is such a thing), at least in my opinion. While your temporal recession is deep, your frontal tuft is still intact and your hairline is at a reasonable height with only minor diffuse thinning. Moreover, your donor area already looks really good and I doubt any women would give it a second glance.I think as you hit the ugly duckling phase where your recipient starts to get that patchy growth you'll have to decide whether you want to do anything to disguise that like you are talking about in your video. I'd probably avoid doing a full shave just so the scars in the donor aren't exposed. That is a conversation that may not go over well with some women because they will think you lack confidence and/or are vain. There's a strange double standard of judgment with this when it comes to guys.

Definitely don't do the hat move on a date because women are wise to that and it will actually draw more attention to your hair. I think your best move at this point is to just grit your teeth and power through with confidence. As cliche as that sounds you're now at an age where a lot of guys will have started showing signs of hair loss, and guys with more aggressive patterns may have lost all their hair already. Women are going to start seeing some level of hair loss as more "normal" just like your parents. What you need to do is focus on playing up your other merits. If you're financially stable, tall, in shape, dress well, etc play to those strengths. You can't be deficient in everything and still be successful, but you can afford to have some weak points.

I don't want to hijack your thread with this too much, but feel free to DM if you're still stressed and want to talk about it more. I honestly think you are more concerned about it than most of your potential dates will be though.

[makehairgreatagain]

@MagnificentAl Your progress looks great and thank you for documenting for us to follow along. Don't pay attention to the naysayers, especially the ones who have never had a transplant and don't know what you've gone through firsthand. You went to a world renown surgeon with extremely high ethics. Being in the awkward phase now is challenging but come summertime next year, you'll be transformed.

[HTHope]

@MagnificentAl do you know what punch size was used on you?

[Melvin- Admin]

Update?

[MagnificentAl]

Hey all,

I got really busy with life and focused my attention on other things mainly work and another cross country move. I recently shared with  Dr. Konior pictures of my almost 8 month progress and decided to update here too. Around month 4 everything changed and my hair just starting booming. I no longer think about my hair, and if my this is my final result I am extremely content. I regularly get skin fades and my barber mentioned he is not able to notice anything in regards to my donor. 
 

If you’re considering Dr. Konior, and need a sign, this is it. Do it, this has been easily been the best decision in my life. I feel like now I’m at my best 😝 

[Britanium]

Totally stunning result ! Wow 🤩 thanks for coming back and updating us 🙏

[RandoBrando517]

1 hour ago, MagnificentAl said:

Hey all,

I got really busy with life and focused my attention on other things mainly work and another cross country move. I recently shared with  Dr. Konior pictures of my almost 8 month progress and decided to update here too. Around month 4 everything changed and my hair just starting booming. I no longer think about my hair, and if my this is my final result I am extremely content. I regularly get skin fades and my barber mentioned he is not able to notice anything in regards to my donor. 
 

If you’re considering Dr. Konior, and need a sign, this is it. Do it, this has been easily been the best decision in my life. I feel like now I’m at my best 😝 

Holy crap no wonder Konior is so damn popular one of the best ever!

[RandoBrando517]

What about the donor on one side thing? Is that even an issue?