WARNING, if considering Dr Hakan Doganay, read this first

[ZeoRanger]

You can pad yourself on the back lol that's the second prospective patient I counted that cancelled his appointment after reading this thread. By now the clinic will surely regret messing with you!

 

Nice to see when a consumer fights back successfully. Also reinforces the purpose of this forum.

[harin]

Question to forum moderators and owners: are all new post and threads being screened before they are published?.

[RK007]

I cannot speak to what their normal procedure is - just that I was not asked for a deposit.

 

I was also not asked for a deposit but i, like you, won't be attending due to some of the issues presented here

[Melvin- Admin]

I can't help but feel kinda bad for this clinic, just because I don't think they're doing anything different from a lot of clinics, there's a famous FUE practitioner that can't be mentioned on this site, that got in to law suits got busted for staff promoting his clinic pretending to be patients, and nothing's happened to his practice, I feel like this clinic literally messed with the wrong patient, but I think we need to raise questions as patients and consumers, this industry has always had problems with ethics and code of conduct from snake oil sales man, onion juice pushers, it's an industry built on predatory sales pitches preying on the insecurity of mostly young men, let this be a cautionary tale to potential patients and clinics alike, questions must be asked and answers must be provided,starting with honest review of hairloss and donor capacity with a discussion regarding preventive measures. Second how much of the surgery is being performed by the surgeon? and what type of training do the techs have? Are they fly by night techs for hire? These things must be discussed prior o agreeing to have surgery or prior to agreeing to operate on a patient, this what is best for the patient and practice in my opinion.

[ZeoRanger]

" I feel like this clinic literally messed with the wrong patient, but I think we need to raise questions as patients and consumers, this industry..."

 

A clinic should not mess with ANY client. Period. They had it coming. Paleo's case still might turn out well but the COUNTLESS poor reviews from other AHD patients that came before him warrant the scrutiny the clinic is under now.

 

I have not seem any other clinic on this forum with so many poor growth cases - particular on one side only. It's clearly a transection issue done by techs.

 

When this clinic first got recommended the mods were misled and under the impression that the the doc did all the work himself.

 

If you're going with this clinic you're taking a gamble, depending on who your tech de jour is. Luck should have nothing to do with your surgery. This clinic being recommended would undermine the credibility of this site.

 

Based on other good results I think doganay is talented but there is a weakest link in their process chain that's causing the problems

[Melvin- Admin]

" I feel like this clinic literally messed with the wrong patient, but I think we need to raise questions as patients and consumers, this industry..."

 

A clinic should not mess with ANY client. Period. They had it coming. Paleo's case still might turn out well but the COUNTLESS poor reviews from other AHD patients that came before him warrant the scrutiny the clinic is under now.

 

I have not seem any other clinic on this forum with so many poor growth cases - particular on one side only. It's clearly a transection issue done by techs.

 

When this clinic first got recommended the mods were misled and under the impression that the the doc did all the work himself.

 

If you're going with this clinic you're taking a gamble, depending on who your tech de jour is. Luck should have nothing to do with your surgery. This clinic being recommended would undermine the credibility of this site.

 

Based on other good results I think doganay is talented but there is a weakest link in their process chain that's causing the problems

 

I agree, I'm not saying a clinic should get away with poor results or treating patients that way, my point was that this clinic is being singled out, but so many other clinics engage in this behavior and get away with it, that's why we shouldn't focus as consumers on just this one clinic, this change should be demanded from the industry as a whole.

[VancouverGuy]

Question to forum moderators and owners: are all new post and threads being screened before they are published?.

 

Open letter to Harin,

 

Obviously your comments were pointed in my direction, but I am curious as to what you think is my motive.

 

Yes, I have been a silent reader for two years. Are you implying I have been 'sitting in waiting to ambush Dr. Doganay all that time'? To what end? If it provides comfort to you please confirm with Muslum that a) I had a procedure date of December 24th, and b) earlier today I cancelled that appointment.

 

What have I personally gained by this? Absolutely nothing.

 

I will be eating $450 in airfare cancellation fees. My game plan take off 3 weeks after Christmas is destroyed. There is no way I can find a reputable Dr. to perform my procedure before then.

 

Yes, those are my decisions - but explain to me, where is my personal upside?

[VancouverGuy]

.... and my procedure date of December 24th with Dr. Doganay, was confirmed through Muslum on August 31st, 2015 (please confirm).

 

Paleocapa stared his thread on October 17th, 2015.

 

Just in case you are going to accuse us of being in 'cahoots'.

[harin]

Quite fascinating how you would take a question directed at the moderators as an insult in the form of question directed at you?.

 

I asked the question because I recently had HT and posted my thread here as a new post and it said:

 

''your post will be published after approval by moderators''.

 

I have never before seen the above message about posts being screened, that is why I asked the question hoping that mods and owners might be frequenting this thread might answer. NO OTHER MOTIVE. I was hoping that the posts by people like you questioning some unethical practices by clinics like ''HakanDogany's'' are not being screened.

 

Anyways my post has now gone live and here is the link to my post:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/181502-nw-6-7-hair-transplant-new-delhi-ncr-region.html

 

May I request you to please not to assume illogical things and accuse people unnecessarily.

 

Open letter to Harin,

 

Obviously your comments were pointed in my direction, but I am curious as to what you think is my motive.

 

Yes, I have been a silent reader for two years. Are you implying I have been 'sitting in waiting to ambush Dr. Doganay all that time'? To what end? If it provides comfort to you please confirm with Muslum that a) I had a procedure date of December 24th, and b) earlier today I cancelled that appointment.

 

What have I personally gained by this? Absolutely nothing.

 

I will be eating $450 in airfare cancellation fees. My game plan take off 3 weeks after Christmas is destroyed. There is no way I can find a reputable Dr. to perform my procedure before then.

 

Yes, those are my decisions - but explain to me, where is my personal upside?

[paleocapa89]

Hi VancouvergGuy,

 

I am glad my story has helped you make an informed decision.

 

About harin:

 

I honestly think he was just genuinely asking why his thread needs moderator approval before it goes public. I don't have much experience with this forum, but my threads didn't need approval when I posted them. Maybe it's something new, maybe creating a thread in another subcategory needs approval, I am not sure.

 

This is to Bill and the forum operators:

 

Concerning the implantation done by technicians:

 

I am interested in your response. According to this website: you carefully review the recommended physicians based on several predetermined criteria. One of these criteria is:

 

"Mastery and control of the orientation and direction of the transplanted grafts to achieve a completely natural appearance"

Based on your own code, is it acceptable when a technician is doing the implantation? I presume the technician wasn't reviewed at all.

 

Hair Transplant Surgeons, Doctors ands and Physicians selection criteria

Edited November 8, 2015 by paleocapa89

[Sean]

Paleo,

 

I really hope you get things sorted and are able to move forward. I really hope the clinic worked with you to resolve all matters. Your thread just lit up on another level. Two of my buddies had this doc on the list of docs they were going to get consults from, and now are planning to get consults from other docs. It even has me alarmed now and being very cautious. Alll these pages, a lot of info, a lot of etc to track,but it sure is helpful. Just hope you get things sorted.

[Turner]

my point was that this clinic is being singled out, but so many other clinics engage in this behavior and get away with it, that's why we shouldn't focus as consumers on just this one clinic, this change should be demanded from the industry as a whole.

 

Every clinic in that region follows the same procedure. The doctors are not hands on the whole procedure. I also had consultations with two other clinics prior to my surgery and both clinics told me that the doctor will supervised the extraction and will implant the front line himself. There is no way that one person can do all the extractions and implantation's himself. It's just impossible. I believe Paleo here is determined in his vendetta against the doctor and doing his best burying him but believe me, the state of mind this guy is in, It would have been any other doctor he would have gone to. Sadly Dr Hakan was the one to take the case and now pay the price. This has turned into a shit show and the whole thread has turned into Paleo's " detective work " in attacking the doctor, which has nothing to do with his medical personal case. By the way Paleo, what happened to your redness that you have 15 pages complaining about ?? Is it gone now just like everyone else told you to ??

[mav23100gunther]

There is no way that one person can do all the extractions and implantation's himself. It's just impossible.

 

Impossible huh? Then how does Dr Konior do it? Yes he does the extractions, incisions, and graft placements by himself - yes every last graft.

[VancouverGuy]

My apologies Harin. All the best down the road.

[paleocapa89]

Turner, you seem to know an awful lot about Turkish hair transplant clinics. Is it impossible to do all the extraction and the implantation? You must be kidding me. I though Dr Doganay was doing all that impossible work a few years ago. And how come in many quality clinics the doctors are in fact doing all that impossible work?

 

Would I call out any other doctor that did the same as Dr Doganay? Yes I would, But any other ethical doctor would have assessed and informed me properly. And probably would have denied me.

 

Btw the redness and the inflammation has indeed improved, thanks to proper medical care I received. (not from Doganay) Thanks for asking.

[harin]

No problems bro. I understand how stressful these things are,life altering decisions and sketchy clinics. Appreciate all of you guys for questioning the practices of certain HT docs and their clinics.

 

Hope things work out for you in future.

 

My apologies Harin. All the best down the road.

[Cerrone60]

Impossible huh? Then how does Dr Konior do it? Yes he does the extractions, incisions, and graft placements by himself - yes every last graft.

 

 

Turner totally agree with you

Never mind about the forum looking after the patient sometimes you have to protect the doctor from a unwarranted sustained attack by a unbalanced individual.

 

mav23100gunther : It all depends on your budget if you can afford to fly out to the USA for a OP with Dr Konior great! but not to many people can afford that Dr Doganay provide a good affordable alternative.

[mav23100gunther]

Turner, you seem to know an awful lot about Turkish hair transplant clinics. Is it impossible to do all the extraction and the implantation? You must be kidding me. I though Dr Doganay was doing all that impossible work a few years ago. And how come in many quality clinics the doctors are in fact doing all that impossible work?

 

Would I call out any other doctor that did the same as Dr Doganay? Yes I would, But any other ethical doctor would have assessed and informed me properly. And probably would have denied me.

 

Btw the redness and the inflammation has indeed improved, thanks to proper medical care I received. (not from Doganay) Thanks for asking.

 

Must admit, I am very torn. I think it is easy to blame Paleo for not performing enough research, whilst at the same time, a propspective patient may not know that this is such a shady industry and that one needs to do a lot of research in selecting a surgeon. When I was researching my 1st surgery, I thought it was sufficient to select a surgeon recommended from this site, consult with him, and if I liked what he told me, then I would be fine. Luckily I am still fine, but if only I knew then what I knew now, I guarantee I would not have selected my 1st surgeon. I also would have actually saved a lot of money too if I had chosen the surgeon that in hindsight I wish I had selected back then. No disrespect to Bill, Pat and his team, as I think this forum is amazing and has helped me greatly, but at the same I really do worry about a few of the recommended surgeons they have listed, especially what is coming out regarding Doganay. It's a shame that folks have to really perform a lot more research that being able to just select a recommended surgeon from this site, and being able to trust what they tell a patient. I don't know what the answer is because I really do think Bill and Pat do a great service here and they are diligent in selecting recommended surgeons. It's just a tough tough industry.

[win200]

I think most people on this forum can agree that the really concerning issue is that the doctor is not doing all of the incisions. I understand that if you're using the Choi implanter pen then you're doing incisions and implantation at the same time, but tough crap--if that's the route a surgeons chooses to go, then the doctor has to do all of the incisions and implantations. The primary thing a patient is paying a doctor for is his/her artistry; if you're delegating the incisions, then you're punting on the crucial part of the surgeon's skill.

 

There's a separate conversation to be had about the appropriate role, if any, of techs in extractions. I don't have a huge problem with it provided that clinics keep VERY strict quality control measures in place and use a stable of extremely experienced, non-rotating techs.

 

To be honest, though, I probably wouldn't submit myself to an FUE in which techs were doing extractions. Just too many variables that can screw up yield. And yield in FUE is already somewhat more variable than FUT to begin with.

[Melvin- Admin]

Every clinic in that region follows the same procedure. The doctors are not hands on the whole procedure. I also had consultations with two other clinics prior to my surgery and both clinics told me that the doctor will supervised the extraction and will implant the front line himself. There is no way that one person can do all the extractions and implantation's himself. It's just impossible. I believe Paleo here is determined in his vendetta against the doctor and doing his best burying him but believe me, the state of mind this guy is in, It would have been any other doctor he would have gone to. Sadly Dr Hakan was the one to take the case and now pay the price. This has turned into a shit show and the whole thread has turned into Paleo's " detective work " in attacking the doctor, which has nothing to do with his medical personal case. By the way Paleo, what happened to your redness that you have 15 pages complaining about ?? Is it gone now just like everyone else told you to ??

 

Nobody expects a doctor to do the implantation themselves, however it should be expected that the doctor for perform at least 50% of the extraction and 100% of the recipient sites, the implantation of the grafts at that point could be done by the technicians, also and most importantly these technicians should be technicians that are always performing the surgeries with the Doctor, it shouldn't be different technicians working on different patients doing basically the whole surgery, that may be popular in turkey and India but by no means should it be considered the gold standard in running a hair restoration clinic, as a matter of fact that's considered a hair mill where sales is the objective instead of quality and patient care.

 

Sadly, this is becoming the norm with a lot of clinics, as patients and consumers we should not except this at all, there is no consistency no quality control in technician based clinics, personally, I would rather Dr. Doganay raise the price per graft and maintain consistency and quality rather than shift to a technician based practice where sales is more important than quality and consistency.

[Stig]

Nobody expects a doctor to do the implantation themselves, however it should be expected that the doctor for perform at least 50% of the extraction and 100% of the recipient sites, the implantation of the grafts at that point could be done by the tech.

 

HTsoon, how did you get to 50%? I'm struggling with this. If a technition is more than capable of extracting 50% of the grafts, then isn't it better to let that technition extract 100%? If you are suggesting that the doctor is better at extracting the grafts than the technition, then shouldn't the doctor extract 100% of the grafts or wait until the technition is as good as the doctor before you let the technition extract even 50% of the grafts? My understanding as to why the top clinics like H&W and Erdogan allows the technition to extract all the grafts is because the technition is more specialized than the surgeon himself?

 

I agree with you on the doctor should be doing 100% of the incisions himself - that is exactly why Doganay should lose his recommendation

[esrec]

The forum and mods are in a difficult position and at a crossroad in my opinion. Do you want to act simply as a sounding board and resource for people or do you want to be looked at as a trusted voice and authority in the world of hair loss, transplantation, etc.

 

The process for evaluating the top physicians from the rest of the pack feels broken to me. Coalition? Sorry, not good enough anymore.

 

How difficult would it be for the mods to reach out to the top 20 recommended doctors and have a written update on their methodologies and approach. I'd hope every office has something like this in writing already.

 

The technicians and doctor should have clearly defined set of responsibilities that is NEVER departed from in surgery. Each patient should receive the same level of care every single time.

 

Can't think of an easier way to hold all accountable. They make us sign waivers on risks, they should have to detail their approach as well. This guessing game on extractions, etc should be a non issue.

[srdonjuan]

I have not had a chance to read all the posts but I will comment on my HT with Dr. Doganay a couple years ago. The lead tech performed all my extractions and Dr. Doganay the implants. I was not happy with the hairline when completed (it seemed a bit lazy and not symmetrical) so after having to make quite a stink his trainee/assistant touched up my hairline, not Dr. Doganay. It's now been over 2 years and they area that was touch up was not done as well and does not look as natural as the areas done by Dr. Doganay. I feel he should of been the one to do the work since, but at that point I was just desperate.

 

Overall I am not very happy with the my result or experience. The growth is quite weak, especially on my right side. Poor density. Dr. Doganay offered to have me come back and he would perform a second HT for free, but I have not returned. I have limited graphs available (800-1000) and to be honest I dont trust that wont have another sub-par result.

 

Through out the process Dr. Doganay just seemed disinterested and the whole thing just felt rushed. I felt like I was a nuisance and burden by wanting to carefully draw in the hairline I wanted. This is perhaps what bothered me most about my experience. I know that not all HT's work out ideally, and that results like mine happen with the best docs, but the overall care taken by Dr. Doganay and his staff just seemed poor to me. Like I was just a number to get in and get out. The frustration stems from the significance of the procedure to all of us. We dont have donor hair to waste, and a poor result can be unrecoverable. I feel a doctor should make the patient feel that they see it this same way.

 

I guess that I plan on some day having a second procedure done by someone else tells you all you need to know.

[paleocapa89]

I have not had a chance to read all the posts but I will comment on my HT with Dr. Doganay a couple years ago. The lead tech performed all my extractions and Dr. Doganay the implants. I was not happy with the hairline when completed (it seemed a bit lazy and not symmetrical) so after having to make quite a stink his trainee/assistant touched up my hairline, not Dr. Doganay. It's now been over 2 years and they area that was touch up was not done as well and does not look as natural as the areas done by Dr. Doganay. I feel he should of been the one to do the work since, but at that point I was just desperate.

 

Overall I am not very happy with the my result or experience. The growth is quite weak, especially on my right side. Poor density. Dr. Doganay offered to have me come back and he would perform a second HT for free, but I have not returned. I have limited graphs available (800-1000) and to be honest I dont trust that wont have another sub-par result.

 

Through out the process Dr. Doganay just seemed disinterested and the whole thing just felt rushed. I felt like I was a nuisance and burden by wanting to carefully draw in the hairline I wanted. This is perhaps what bothered me most about my experience. I know that not all HT's work out ideally, and that results like mine happen with the best docs, but the overall care taken by Dr. Doganay and his staff just seemed poor to me. Like I was just a number to get in and get out. The frustration stems from the significance of the procedure to all of us. We dont have donor hair to waste, and a poor result can be unrecoverable. I feel a doctor should make the patient feel that they see it this same way.

 

I guess that I plan on some day having a second procedure done by someone else tells you all you need to know.

 

This whole post resonates so much with my experience. Being rushed, not getting adequate attention - and in my case not being assessed and informed properly - and just pushed through the whole procedure like you were a piece of material on a conveyor belt. Even the uneven/poorly planned hairline and the tech touching it up after the procedure is the same.

[Xkos48]

This whole post resonates so much with my experience. Being rushed, not getting adequate attention - and in my case not being assessed and informed properly - and just pushed through the whole procedure like you were a piece of material on a conveyor belt. Even the uneven/poorly planned hairline and the tech touching it up after the procedure is the same.

 

My experience was also the same,it doesn't seem he likes what he's doing.