mav23100gunther

Thanks bud, I’ll stick around for a bit to catch-up. At some point I do want to do another pass to address the mid-scalp, but for now an upcoming engagement with the better half is keeping me busy and the diamond will ensure my HT fund is too low to afford that next pass anytime soon.

It’s been a very long time since this thread was blowing up. Can’t believe it’s been three years. Too be honest, back then I was actually lapping up the info being given out by the OP and the so called three forces. I realized later on that the Dr may not have actually been as up to date on the most recent developments in the FUE industry as he probably should have been (not attending industry conferences or knowing the existence of a well respected FUE surgeon until that surgeon engaged him in a seperate thread). The magnificent transformation and results of the FUE procedures that our co-moderator HTsoon received, in my opinion, pretty much proved to me that I was dead wrong to ever believe that FUT was always a better option. I am not saying that the OP was at all wrong on the matter, and I know HTsoon doesn’t want this thread being revisited, but as someone who has been out of the loop for a year and a half (as I have been living life and focusing on other pertinent life events), I am curious as to whether, three years later FUE has further developed and been refined, and from a pure results perspective, how does it now compare with FUT?

It’s a very deep thought. I do think a surgeon has a moral obligation to provide good service by executing the procedure to the best of his ability first and foremost. I don’t think that good service should extend to having to provide a refund if the procedure is not successful despite the surgeon executing the procedure to the best of his ability, and the patient having made an informed decision to consent to the surgery despite the risks. I also believe the surgeon has a moral obligation to ensure that he is only working on an informed patient and therefore one who has made an informed decision based on that surgeon clearly communicating the risks involved and chance of non-success. To me, this is no different than engaging an attorney who then loses the case despite his best efforts. He should still be paid for his services. It becomes different when a seller guarantees his product, and that’s when a return policy and refunds should come into play. No hair transplantation surgeon should be guaranteeing success. I stand by my point of view that providing refunds or free touch ups should be a good business decision as apposed to a moral obligation.

Looks like we are in total agreement on the first point then. Yes I do know that he would not decline $200k. I was trying to articulate it as nicely as possible. Whilst I appreciate your 2nd point, I disagree that not offering refunds or free touch-ups is immoral just because the prices are extreme. This is an elective procedure that is far from a sure thing. The risk of an unsuccessful result was disclosed to me at each consultation I attended. I still chose to move ahead despite the risks. I hardly think I am then entititled to a refund of the result was unsuccessful due to scientific reasons outside of the control of the surgeon. He is running a business for heavens sake. Now is it bad business for him to to not try make it right to an unsatisfied customer by offering partial refunds or a free touch-up on a case by case basis, yes I think that is probably a bad business decision, but hardly immoral, please. It’s a tough world out there my friend where nothing is free.

40K a year? If you could make 200k a year, I would betcha you would go for it. I could be wrong, and if I am then you are a better human than I am. Bottom line is supply and demand. Price is set by how much consumers are willing to pay. Absolutely nothing wrong with the Surgeons charging that much if consumers are willing to pay. That’s the world we live in unless you want to relocate to a communist nation. I would also love to know where in the US is 40k a year comfortable?

Barbaric? What are you talking about? Have you ever seen a C-section before? Or maybe Open heart surgery? Brain surgery to cut out tumors? If you think an elective FUT strip procedure is barbaric, then I wonder what you think of the others I mentioned. What about LASIK where they cut a flap in your eyeball, lift it, and then zap away at your eyeball using a laser. Get real man, FUT is nowhere near barbaric. Is it gruesome, sure, but it works with minimal risk of any king of injury or complication, and there are plenty of more gruesome medical procedure. Calling this form of modern medicane that transforms the lives of many men for the better is extremely disrespectful to the surgeons out there who make it happen.

HTsoon, I have been MIA living life and completely missed you becoming a moderator. Congrats on the new role, can’t think of a more qualified person to take on the role

If anyone knows a good shampoo, it has gotta be this guy!

This wasn’t the case 2 years ago when I got my prouder dons with him. He was doing two a day, one usually strip, and the other FUE. The online Rahal account even posted on this site recently that the clinic performs about half and half. I’ll try track down that post.

So the clinic did not make things right with you or attempt to as Bill is claiming?any refund?

you are not qualified to perform FUE hair transplantation

Bill, I seem to recall some issues with various online shills popping up suspiciously at the same time to troll this forum, one of which was found to be a roommate of a Doganay employee (the IP address gave this away), and then another instance where the online rep came onto this forum disgruntled and admitting to the fact that the clinic was unethical with dealings with ex clients. I realize these were unsubstantiated and therefore hearsay events, but I don’t believe it was just the poor results by the clinic that got folks upset. It was that combined with the manner in which the clinic was treating patients and non-patients at the time. Can you please elaborate further to us how you have gotten comfortable that the clinic is conducting itself to meet and exceed your minimin standards, as well as how you are satisfied that the noise mentioned above was just that? Have you or Pat visited the clinic recently? I think that would be helpful in convincing others. I’m still a no though, but interested in hearing how others feel.

It’s a no from me. He let his standards slip, and don’t think you can blame it on one bad Apple. Still think you need another couple of years of seasoning so we can assess whether the results remain consistent on an ongoing basis. Check back in 2019

Do you have an update for us mate?

The OP was talking FUT, so that's the basis for my question. You will have a tough time arguing that European surgeons are of higher quality than Konior and Shapiro. I also only asked about better. I did not ask about who is cheaper. Now if we are talking FUE, then I actually am of the opinion that one could find FUE surgeons in Europe equal to and perhaps better than those of the US - and a lot cheaper too. When I one day get stripped out, I will definitely strongly consider Europe with the likes of Lorenzo, Erdogan and Ferudini.

Also look into Dr Nader of Mexico. I haven't researched him myself, but I have heard some noise around him - the good kind

You lost me at better quality. Although I agree the procedure is cheaper in Europe, I'd ask if you can name a European surgeon who is better quality than Dr Konior or Dr Shapiro? If the OP can afford the cost of Konior, then my advice is not to let costs drive the choice of surgeon. If he lands at Dr Konior being the best choice quality wise, then that's the answer.

Goat indeed! Dr Hasson is a bad man. Ernie, you are the runner up though

He won't answer, defend or address these points because they are valid. Same reason he is complaining about me to the Moderators to get them to silence me. I am not questioning the factual accuracy of the information that he is putting out, but I do think he starts to lose credibility when one considers that it appears he is not following or staying on top of the recent advances in FUE or at least the execution of it, and therefore may no longer be in a position to then argue that FUE surgeons haven't been able to overcome his so called detrimental forces. At some point, basing the argument so heavily on one's own experience performing the surgery without careful consideration to what others may be doing - just doesn't cut it, and one quickly starts to lose credibility. He knows this, and I suspect that the fact I keep bringing it to light is one of the reasons he wants to silence me so badly.

You're welcome

Yes I did agree to not post on your threads, and then after thinking about it some more, I changed my mind. Last I checked, there is no law against changing one's mind. Like I said previously, you certainly do not have the right to EVER dictate to me what I can and can not do on a public forum. I am posting my opinion on threads that interest me the most, and where I feel the need to chime in. My posts are fully in compliance with the terms and conditions of this site, nor do I intend to deviate from this. My posting history is there for the Moderators to see, and I am confident that your allegations against me are unfounded. I have supported you and your position on FUT vs FUE previously, and I have also spoken out against you when I disagreed. Why so sensitive at me calling you out? Why is it my position against your recent behaviour that is touching such a nerve? If you don't believe what you did to the Lupanzula video was illegal, unethical or in bad taste, then why did you pull it down and wipe out any sign of its existence? You have been very vocal in your criticism of FUE, and for the most part I still don't have a reason to disagree with the position that you have laid out for us. However, I think it is important for folks to know the following: 1) your position on FUE seems to just be based on your own experience performing the surgery 2) I understand that you have not attended an ISHRS or other conference in person in years 3) you appear to be unaware of who exactly the new and upcoming FUE surgeons actually are. Dr Lupanzula is a well respected FUE surgeon recommended by this very site and who actually presented/gave a demonstration at a FUE conference hosted by Erdogan in 2015 and which was attended by some heavy hitters like Shapiro, Wong, Feriduni, Lorenzo and others. Yet, you yourself admitted you had never heard of Dr Lupanzula until he posted on this thread. 4) I am not even convinced you have seen a live FUE from one of these top FUE surgeons in recent years. I could be wrong on this point. Based on the above 4 points, I question if you are really keeping abreast of the latest developments in the FUE industry to be able to make the assertions about FUE that you have been making. My opinion of course.

Yes I apologized and deleted the said posts just like I said I would. You demanded that I never come on your threads again, but I never ever promised to comply with that request. In a much earlier posting I said I would no longer address you, but subsequently changed my mind. I never promised anything. You see Dr Feller, you may think you have the right to go around and make demands of others, but you don't. I believe my posts comply with the terms of conditions of this site, and do not see any reason why you reserve the right to demand that I not post on your threads again. I am confident that my 1,000 odd posting history proves your allegations as baseless. Being a Dr certainly does not give you the right to go around and tell me what to to do.

Not true and you know it. 1) Dr Lupanzula and Dr Bhatti have both come on to debate you 2) When Dr Lupanzula recently did so on this very thread, you then proceeded to take copy-write protected video of the said Dr performing a procedure from another source, purposefully hide the JT logo, and then completely tear the thing apart when in my opinion was unfair and uncalled for. The backlash was so bad that you even took down the video. FUE practioners do not not come on to debate these statements not because they can't, but because they don't want to be subjected to similar unprofesional treatment dished out to Dr Lupanzula. It's disappointing they don't join the debate, but I don't blame them for not wanting to engage in something that potentially ends up the same way the last one did.

Outstanding result so far and you know it's still going to get better as the new hair matures. You must be over the moon with your decision to go get the 2nd pass.

Do I sound crazy by admitting I haven't checked it? I'm kinda scared to do so, and difficult to check it myself. I do have to go see a surgeon in NY to get a new prescription of Fin in a few months, so will maybe get him to check it for me then and take pictures.