Senior Member hairweare Posted October 31, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 31, 2014 Having heard both sides, I am not certain that anything is owed other than an apology for wasting everyone"s time. Until the OP provides the requested detailed post op photos I don't think there is much else to discuss. Frankly, I am surprised that the moderators have not already closed the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Noodles123 Posted October 31, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 31, 2014 It's extremely telling that this guy has gone out of his way to respond to every single negative-sounding comment, and yet cannot post any photos to demonstrate without a shadow of a doubt his "disastrous" results. He is supposedly worried about his identity? How is possible with a cropped photo, or blacked out face. What I still don't get is why is the crookedness of the hairline more pronounced in the fully grown out pictures, versus the immediate post op photos. As an objective observer with zero interest in this matter, it seems like he thought that he could just create a thread and whip up enough drama to force H&W to give him his "complete refund." He fully expected them to acquiesce and just put the matter to bed. Clearly he did not anticipate this much push back from the community. From my experience, most people on here are reasonable and logical. If you appealed to their logic, I've seen more times than not, the members here stand behind and support the patient. HairFramer, you know what would silence everyone? POST THE PICTURES. Show the devastating damage, and stop wasting so much time responding to every supposed slight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Hairfarmer, Please reply to my post ASAP and let me know whether or not you are going to cooperate and present the detailed photos I've asked for. It's only fair that you provide these photos so that all members of this community can form an educated opinion and conclusion of your result. Thank you, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member hairfarmer79 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 31, 2014 I'll do as you have requested and I will re-upload by previous photos. You forgot to mention why I had taken them down and it's unfair to have left out that important reason. There was some personal and confidential information shared in here by some one who was not authorized to do so. It may not matter in your country but it certainly compromises my identity in mine. I have sent you an email and I would appreciate a response. I will upload my photos again shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Hairfarmer, Since you had already mentioned why you removed your own photos, I don't see why you think I needed to repeat it. That said, I may have missed a particular post where you feel your identity could be compromised. If you point it out to me privately (I'll need the poster's name, a copy of the post and why you feel it compromises your identity) and I agree that it compromises your identity, I'll consider removing the offending post. Please go ahead and post the original and new photos I've asked for ASAP. I've also replied to your private message. However, don't let other side issues you want to discuss delay or prevent you from taking and presenting these photos. Thanks, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member hairfarmer79 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) These are the 9.5 month photos. My hair is being cut to that length at the moment until I can get this repaired. To have photos taken of it at a longer length again will take months to grow. At this period of time I think it's fair to say the design is not going to miraculously improve overnight. It's not going to change, it's the almost completed results. I know it's been suggested that the density is acceptable, I'm not by any means criticizing the density. From the beginning it's always been the design flaws. - Crooked on the left considerably compared to the right. - Linear and far to sharp with it's lines, there are no scattering of hair to soften it's overall look it's just incredibly linear I don't know how else to describe it. Then when the hair is longer I still have to contend with the older procedure preventing me from styling it. It wont brush forward, it wont part to the side. It's completely influenced by the older procedure and my hairline can only be parted in the middle compared to everything behind it being able to brush forward. This is central to what I had said in my very first post it had always been a concern that this would be the outcome but that those concerns had been dispelled by the initial advice I received from the company in question. The decision to opt for FUT "conceal" over FUE "extraction" of older troublesome grafts was always the question. I can only hope now to get the hairline fixed. The fact is I would have to further pay to now fix what another physician is responsible for and it's with this in mind that I seek the outcome I had previously requested. Edited October 31, 2014 by hairfarmer79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill - Seemiller Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 Hairfarmer, Thanks for posting these. But I'd appreciate it if you can also post the following: 1. Before picture of the hairline 2. Before picture showing the top of the scalp 3. 9.5 month photo showing the top of the scalp 4. Before picture of the donor area (scar) 5. After picture of the donor area (scar) I'm inclined to agree that the hairline looks a bit uneven, but far from horrific or unnatural looking from what I an see in the pictures. That said, I think your hairline concerns could be easily addressed with another minor procedure. Since density is not a concern, the number of grafts required would be nominal. Best wishes, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member hairfarmer79 Posted October 31, 2014 Author Regular Member Share Posted October 31, 2014 Bill thanks for responding. I can get the donor scar photos for you but they have never been part of my concern. I would even go as far as saying the donor scar is quite good, very thin and well concealed. I never raised that part as a concern but if you still require them I can get some for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Spanker Posted October 31, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 31, 2014 From the photos, to be honest, I'm a little jealous of your hair/head. You have a very nice shaped head (unlike mine) and that looks to be a very neat and trim look on you. It's very clean cut. I am an online representative for Dr. Raymond Konior who is an elite member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians. View Dr. Konior's Website View Spanker's Website I am not a medical professional and my opinions should not be taken as medical advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member hairthere Posted October 31, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 31, 2014 I would say at this point all you really need to do is have those minis/micros punched out and redistributed. You can use some to refine the hairline. Maybe FUE a few hundred more grafts to bulk it up. I don't think a full refund is necessary as H&W didn't really do anything egregious here, more like a partial if anything so you can fund another procedure. If you can re-establish a civil correspondence with the clinic (no more blazing accusations) maybe you can still resolve this with them. I am the owner/operator of AHEAD INK a Scalp Micropigmentation Company in Fort Lee, New Jersey. www.aheadink.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member PupDaddy Posted October 31, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 31, 2014 From what I see, I wouldn't classify this case as needing a "repair" at all. The immediate post-op work looks clean, well-designed, and well-executed, and the hairline is executed with similar subtle micro-irregularity regularly seen in H&W transplant work. He is at 9.5 months, with more maturing of the transplanted hair to come and more styling options if he will let his hair grow out to a reasonable length. Doing so will also create the appearance of additional softness of the hairline. Shaved down hairlines look more "harsh" than grown out hairlines. It took Dr. Wong to tell us that five days after the procedure, seven old 2-hair grafts below the transplanted hairline were detected (presumably the patient had shaved these), and Dr. Wong punched these out and repurposed them. If the patient didn't care for the asymmetry of the hairline design (right side a bit higher than the left), then arguably he should have said so to allow Dr. Wong to re-mark it, but giving the patient the benefit of the doubt, a small touchup session to lower the right side a few millimeters might be in order. I can't detect the old mini/micrografts in these photos, and it is impossible to tell whether any of them would be noticeable or problematic with the patient's hair grown out. My guess is that they would be well camouflaged by the new work and cosmetically a non-issue. If, after giving the transplanted hair at least a full year to mature, the patient is bothered by some of the old graphs, then punching them out and repurposing them would be an easy matter (as the patient knows from Dr. Wong having punched out the 7 old 2-hair grafts that surfaced during the patient's day 5 post-op checkup). Again, my guess is that it would not be necessary, but it could quickly and easily be taken care of during a touchup session to lower the right side of the hairline, if the patient opts for this. I can't really say whether H&W should pitch in $$ for a touchup or offer a free or discounted one. The photographic evidence and the additional information provided by Joe T. and Dr. Wong paint a drastically different picture of this case than what was portrayed by the patient. The work looks solid, the yield looks appropriate for the number of graphs transplanted (with more maturing of the transplanted hair to come), and the old work seems well camouflaged so far as can be detected from the posted photos. Personally, I think that a touchup is completely optional in this case, not a necessity. What has become more apparent as this thread has developed is that this patient has become fixated on his hair, on Joe Tillman, and on H&W as the source of a catastrophe that appears not to exist. My advice to hairfarmer79 (not that he's asked for it) would be to take a break from the forums, focus on other things, let his hair grow out in the interim, and in, say, four or five months time after the transplanted hair has reasonably fully matured, decide whether he wants a touchup. It truly wouldn't be a major deal, that is, if he can regain some perspective and equanimity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member bismarck Posted October 31, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 31, 2014 Hairfarmer, Just to understand your perspective, can you draw the "ideal" hairline that you would have preferred? Although there are some subtleties, it is difficult to understand the degree of your dissatisfaction based on these pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Number47 Posted October 31, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted October 31, 2014 (edited) The hairline is obviously bad. The one side looks like it was drawn with a ruler and is more up than the other side!!! The guy had a good head of hair to begin with and to tell you the truth his before pic from Dr. Wong with all the problems that needed to be repaired still looked more natural to me than the after!!! the one side especially looks like Dracula hairline! My friend for me you were right from the beginning this doesn't look like a 20.000 dollars hair transplant. I think you have to have the symmetry fixed with FUE do not go strip your self again to correct this noway! At least there is growth and your strip scar is optimal! Edited October 31, 2014 by Number47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member tofuparty Posted October 31, 2014 Regular Member Share Posted October 31, 2014 I wouldn't be happy with that result. It looks crooked and eye-catching in the wrong sort of way. Best of luck getting this rectified satisfactorily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Jerry Wong Posted October 31, 2014 Share Posted October 31, 2014 HR thank you for the pictures. From the pictures it certainly does look like the right side is higher than the left. The pictures need to include the eyebrows to know for sure if this is the case. And if it is to determine the degree of asymmetry. J Wong Dr. Wong is a member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldingBogger Posted November 1, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted November 1, 2014 guys seriously take this offline and sort it out between yourselves. The hairline is not great but the rest is fine . It's not the shit show being protrayed. Some guys have been left looking like Frankenstein FFs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member home1212 Posted November 1, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted November 1, 2014 Honestly, I wish I had this problem because its going to be a quick & easy fix for a veteran like Dr. Wong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member KO Posted November 1, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted November 1, 2014 guys seriously take this offline and sort it out between yourselves. The hairline is not great but the rest is fine . It's not the shit show being protrayed. Some guys have been left looking like Frankenstein FFs. This. 3382 FUE Lupanzula http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/185463-3382-grafts-lupanzula.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member densedream Posted November 1, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted November 1, 2014 This. This and This. This thread is so blown out of proportion it's unreal. Hairframer should be the one apologising to Dr. Wong and Joe for the insults and defamation of their names. Yeah your hairline is ever so slightly crooked..but it's still hard to tell with pictures that don't show your eyebrows. You scar must be amazing since you can shave your hair so short and it's not even a concern. Density is also superb. Yet we have a 15 page thread of libel and defamation. It's about time for this thread to be locked up and disregarded in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member FUE2014 Posted November 1, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted November 1, 2014 guys seriously take this offline and sort it out between yourselves. The hairline is not great but the rest is fine . It's not the shit show being protrayed. Some guys have been left looking like Frankenstein FFs. I tend to agree, all this public mudslinging is not going to solve the problem, and if anything is going to make H&W even less likely to want to work with the OP to resolve his issues. I think it will be better for the mods to lock this thread and endeavour to mediate an agreed outcome with OP and H&W offline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member hairfarmer79 Posted November 1, 2014 Author Regular Member Share Posted November 1, 2014 (edited) To all of you I am following the process that was specifically asked of me by the forum lead admin. No one is forcing any one of you to have to be here or read any of this but you just can't help yourselves. The physician has acknowledged the issues I have raised and I will work constructively with him in order to have this resolved which hopefully wont be much longer. Edited November 1, 2014 by hairfarmer79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Sean Posted November 1, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted November 1, 2014 To be cut up again for repair can be risky to good healed donor scar area, unless Dr. Wong offers highly skilled fue to correct the hairline issues. If not, then you could repeatedly ask for refund or hope things resolve for you like it did for some others. Cost of travel will be a hit if tickets need to be purchased, loss of time from work, and the time lost due to post op aftercare. Ireally hope things are sorted out for you. Good Luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member hairfarmer79 Posted November 1, 2014 Author Regular Member Share Posted November 1, 2014 Thanks very much Sean I appreciated it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Number47 Posted November 1, 2014 Senior Member Share Posted November 1, 2014 To all of you I am following the process that was specifically asked of me by the forum lead admin. No one is forcing any one of you to have to be here or read any of this but you just can't help yourselves. The physician has acknowledged the issues I have raised and I will work constructively with him in order to have this resolved which hopefully wont be much longer. Well done hairfarmer i am so happy for you!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member hairfarmer79 Posted November 4, 2014 Author Regular Member Share Posted November 4, 2014 I think it will be better for the mods to lock this thread and endeavour to mediate an agreed outcome with OP and H&W offline. Several nights ago I sent an email to Bill the managing publisher of this forum with the photo that Dr Wong had requested. After listening to many opinions and suggestions directed at me from members in this forum I had given consideration to all of them. I meant every bit of what I said in my last post when I genuinely wanted to work constructively with the physician to have this resolved. I had subsequently made the decision not to post anything in here and rather mediate some kind of resolution through the moderators as had been suggested by another member. Several nights ago I sent the photo that Dr Wong had requested to Bill the managing publisher with a request attached. For obvious reasons I did not want to post on here because the photo Dr Wong requested reveals to much of my face/identity. I've had no feedback and no response from Bill. I've had no choice but to once again post in here requesting an answer. Question to Bill (Lead Forum Admin) Bill can you please advise if you will be facilitating or assisting me in mediating with Hasson and Wong? Question for Dr Wong Dr Wong when and if you receive the photo you had requested of me what will be your intention? Now that you have acknowledged what has been obvious from day one that my hairline is flawed what does Hasson and Wong propose as a suitable solution which will allow me to have this corrected? Sorry to anyone who resents me having to once again post in here. I had taken your advice and it has not been forthcoming in assisting a proper outcome. My official complaint with Hasson and Wong Vancouver is far from resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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