The truth about Hasson and Wong.

[FUE2014]

He calls me an extortionist and you suggest he's defending me?

 

Did you actually read what he wrote?

 

You people have let trolls rum rampant in this thread and as predicted you turn on me.

 

You have the audacity to let someone defamee by calling me am extortionist, mock my poor results and laugh about it and then threaten to lock the thread and silence me?

 

 

I've screen shot this and your threats.

 

Go ahead and lock it and I'll pursue it down the relevant health regularly bodies.

 

Dude he was defending you. It's called sarcasm. I had sympathy for you at the beginning as you will note from my previous posts, but the way you have since conducted yourself has not done you any favours at all. You need to tone down the threats to sue everyone left right and centre and focus on how you can fix the situation and move forward. Your current tone and language is not conducive to achieving that, and if anything you are making things worse for yourself.

[hairfarmer79]

Dude he was defending you. It's called sarcasm. I had sympathy for you at the beginning as you will note from my previous posts, but the way you have since conducted yourself has not done you any favours at all. You need to tone down the threats to sue everyone left right and centre and focus on how you can fix the situation and move forward. Your current tone and language is not conducive to achieving that, and if anything you are making things worse for yourself.

 

Mate I can fully appreciate the sound advice you give.

if you were to flick through this thread and have a look at the amount of people who have had a go at me over this it beggars belief.

I have nothing to hide but it has not stopped people from using disgraceful tactics that the admins were happy to let slide, have a look at the history and see for yourself.

 

They pulled me up over something so minor compared to what others have said.

[hairthere]

hairfarmer, Did you remove your pictures, and if so why?

[hairfarmer79]

hairfarmer, Did you remove your pictures, and if so why?

 

Stated approx 4 comments ago my reasons.

 

Joe Tillman in his last response was referencing personal client information that has the potential to disclose who I am. I gave them no such permission to disclose that information.

 

No one in here would enjoy waving around their own real identities, I am no different.

[Blake Bloxham]

Farmer,

 

I'm sorry you feel like you're being attacked. Honestly, we are only trying to help. Dave and I just want the thread to remain civil so all parties can discuss the issue and find some closure. If you feel someone is being inappropriate or targeting you, let me know and I'll look into it.

 

In the meantime, I suggest we all step back for a moment, take a deep breath, and clear our heads. I think you've thoroughly made your points in the first few posts of the thread. Joe replied with some very thorough points of his own. The only reply we still need is Hasson & Wong's. They are aware of the situation. As we always do in these situations, Dave, Bill, and myself spoke with the clinic, spoke with you privately, and now want to bring both parties together to handle this in an open, honest forum.

 

I don't think the back-and-forth is really getting us anywhere now. Like I said before, I don't want this thread to spiral out of control and end up closed. This is not a threat, nor is it directed at you. It is my job to moderate the forums. Giving appropriate warnings to all members in the thread and acting in the best interest of all involved is part of my job description. However, I don't like doing this; none of the moderators do! So, let's all take a step back and wait for Hasson & Wong to reply.

 

Despite what you may think, I do want to help. Please let me know if there is anything I can do.

 

Thank you.

[hairfarmer79]

Thanks for the feedback and understanding.

 

I'd like to use this opportunity to apologize to member 'Number47' who I had mistaken as him implying something that his message did not imply.

I misinterpreted it and take full responsibility for the error and sincerely apologize for the insult and words I used.

 

I've had my guard up the last few days and I've had to respond to a lot of harsh critics but on this occasion I got it wrong and I'm sorry.

 

I'll leave it there and wait for the clinic to respond.

I would only ask they please respect my desire to remain an anonymous person. I believe that a recent reference made to my previous employment has made my right to remain anonymous more difficult. I don't want my personal details of that nature published it's completely irrelevant to anything this involves.

 

As for the misinterpretation of the recent user message ive been responding all day on my phone and on this occasion the tiny screen has not made it as easy on my eyes as would usually be the case.

 

Thanks and sorry to anyone I offended with my defensive remarks.

[bismarck]

We tend to be our own worst critics, but honestly, you look way better my friend. Time to grow your hair out, style it, and see how you feel a year down the line.

[Sean]

Hairfarmer, i can understand your concerns. Surgery is expensive, it takes a physical toll, your own biological priceless biological resources are being used, you miss valuable time during the first few days of healing from social/work/family events. As a result, yoi deserve top notch service and quality rather to be blamed. It is very disgusting to be targeted for physiology and pshycological factors resulting from a failed transplant. Any hair restoration procedure should be considered failed if it does not meet all targets. This isn't an easy surgery to go through and any imperfection/error should not be treated so gently. These forums dictate what surgeons are the go to preferred high quality ones above the rest, so that leaves very little room for imperfections. everyone on this forum is here to get hair help or had restorations, that shows how important hair is to us. any little screw up with surgery can certainly be damaging. If you go to a well known fancy steakhouse and ordered $300 worth food, but that food was not cooked properly due to the cow's physiology, then either they give you an equal amount of food free or they refund your entire cost of the meal. In hair restoration, very few doctors seem to refund but rely more on repair due to the profit loss factor. Doctors should be held more and more accountable. in the end, patients can end up getting screwed more than once, one by losing their precious biological resources, money, time, scarring, laxity, and etc. Doctors lose only money and should be held more accountable if they fail to render services 100%.

 

Hope you get some resolution soon hairfarmer. Forums should not lock threads regardless if resolution is met or not, these are issues with clinics and those that had surgery with them. Locking threads prevent users from commenting and seeing the thread again unless it is searched thus preventing users from researching clinics accurately.

[Number47]

Thanks for the feedback and understanding.

 

I'd like to use this opportunity to apologize to member 'Number47' who I had mistaken as him implying something that his message did not imply.

I misinterpreted it and take full responsibility for the error and sincerely apologize for the insult and words I used.

 

I've had my guard up the last few days and I've had to respond to a lot of harsh critics but on this occasion I got it wrong and I'm sorry.

 

I'll leave it there and wait for the clinic to respond.

I would only ask they please respect my desire to remain an anonymous person. I believe that a recent reference made to my previous employment has made my right to remain anonymous more difficult. I don't want my personal details of that nature published it's completely irrelevant to anything this involves.

 

As for the misinterpretation of the recent user message ive been responding all day on my phone and on this occasion the tiny screen has not made it as easy on my eyes as would usually be the case.

 

Thanks and sorry to anyone I offended with my defensive remarks.

 

Hi i was being sarcastic with BlahBllah 1982 i found the "shakedown"comment very offensive to your situation thus the sarcasm. Don't worry i was not offended cause it was clear that you misunderstood me, i would react the same way if i thought someone is calling me an extortionist!

[hairweare]

Sean even though I don't do hair transplants, as a physician I still must strongly disagree with the sentiments you have expressed. One should never lose sight of the fact that HT surgery is a purely elective cosmetic procedure. No one is faced with a life of death choice as to wether of not to proceed but rather does so solely at their own discretion. Physicians regardless of their specialty can never guarantee results, we are human and patients are not inanimate machines like cars, don't confuse us with mechanics. What we are obligated to do is to utilize our skills and judgement to the best of our abilities and to always put the interests of the patient first. Anything beyond can be attributed to God's will or lady luck.

I will repeat it again because the point needs to be understood. Some prospective patients are not candidates for elective cosmetic surgery because their expectations are unreasonable or they are afflicted with a degree of body dimorphic syndrome. Physicians are usually adept at identifying such patients and must responsibly turn them down even if they will likely go to someone else. Again, I don't think we have enough objective facts in regard to this particular case and have yet to hear the physicians counter viewpoint. I have my own opinion based on what has been disclosed but will keep it to myself since it serves no useful purpose in terms of how things will eventually be resolved.

Edited October 29, 2014 by hairweare

[BaldingBogger]

To be fair, it's only been a couple years that I have felt comfortable with fue. When I started to check out transplants, there were not a lot of options. Dr. Feller being probably the top guy in the US at that time at 10 bucks a graft and no one was getting the yield that they get now. Things on the fue front have drastically changed in the past 2 years. It's pretty remarkable.

 

I think if you were only to read this forum that might be your opinion.

 

But the Belgian Drs and Lorenzo have been churning out consistent FUE results for a lot longer .

 

Maybe they have just not been members here and not showcased here. up until the last couple of years there was a considerable transparent anti fue campaign from people with vested interests.

[KO]

^I think the foreign forums like recuperarpelo/ganarpelo had doctors like Lorenzo, Michalis, Couto, Bisanga, and Feriduni posting results for years. You would agree that all of them are better than Feller at FUE. Even Bisanga I believe is relatively new here. The turkish docs only seemed to appear after 2010 (that's just my impression though).

[Spanker]

^I think the foreign forums like recuperarpelo/ganarpelo had doctors like Lorenzo, Michalis, Couto, Bisanga, and Feriduni posting results for years. You would agree that all of them are better than Feller at FUE. Even Bisanga I believe is relatively new here. The turkish docs only seemed to appear after 2010 (that's just my impression though).

That may be true, however I elected not to consider a surgeon outside of North America. As I have agreed and finances have changed, if and when Dr. K retires, I may consider wrapping things up with fue. I shouldn't need to tap into those reserves for some time, and since laxity is my strong point in terms of availability, I'll be sticking with strip for my next surgery.

[Shampoo]

Some prospective patients are not candidates for elective cosmetic surgery because their expectations are unreasonable or they are afflicted with a degree of body dimorphic syndrome. Physicians are usually adept at identifying such patients and must responsibly turn them down even if they will likely go to someone else. Again, I don't think we have enough objective facts in regard to this particular case and have yet to hear the physicians counter viewpoint.

 

I agree.

 

I also think a patient with body dysmorphic disorder (BDD), puts a clinic/doctor in a very awkward position. I actually feel sorry for both sides of the equation. The clinic has a business to run and the patient probably does not fully realize they have BDD. I suppose clinics get pretty good at being able to eliminate these kind of patients pre-op, but sometimes I would think it can be difficult to predict during consultation how "difficult to satisfy" certain patients may turn out to be.

 

The doctor probably has a gut instinct once this type of patient is discovered that the patient will probably never be satisfied....so why keep doing more surgeries?

 

I know as a business owner there are certainly rare cases where I politely tell what I believe is an unreasonable customer "here is your money back and please find someone else to provide you the service you seek because we have decided to no longer do business with you". Even more rare is the unreasonable customer I have taken to court seeking payment and we have won every case thus far.

 

Without knowing all the facts of this particular case, it is hard to say exactly what Hasson/Wong should do, but sometimes it is just best to "cut your losses", offer at least some type of refund and move on. I wish this patient the best, but would not want to be the next doctor/clinic on his list.

 

ps: My experience with Jotronic, Dr. Wong, Christina, Daria, and the entire Hasson/Wong clinic was excellent.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Shampoo

[wylie]

Mate I can fully appreciate the sound advice you give.

if you were to flick through this thread and have a look at the amount of people who have had a go at me over this it beggars belief.

I have nothing to hide but it has not stopped people from using disgraceful tactics that the admins were happy to let slide, have a look at the history and see for yourself.

 

They pulled me up over something so minor compared to what others have said.

 

The persecution complex you have displayed towards admin. and other posters on this thread dovetails nicely with the accusations you are leveling against H&W.

 

On a public forum, where an airing of grievances elicits responses of both support and skepticism, you have proven to be your own worst enemy.

[hairfarmer79]

The persecution complex you have displayed towards admin. and other posters on this thread dovetails nicely with the accusations you are leveling against H&W.

 

On a public forum, where an airing of grievances elicits responses of both support and skepticism, you have proven to be your own worst enemy.

 

 

You are a perfect example.

You joined in 2007 and this is the only thing you have to contribute each and every time.

You have nothing to add to this thread other than trolling with the same repetitive message and accusations each time.

I'm flagging you accordingly and recommend you find something else to do with your life other than troll public hair restoration forums.

Edited October 29, 2014 by hairfarmer79

[Number47]

I don't understand why H&W doesn't offer some kind of a refund on the guy so he can move on with his life. I mean he is obviously unhappy everyone sees the problem with the hair transplant and the guy from my understanding doesn't want to go back there.

 

Will anyone from the clinic comment on the issue??? At least he said his part of the story there is no response?

[hairthere]

"I don't understand why H&W doesn't offer some kind of a refund on the guy so he can move on with his life. I mean he is obviously unhappy everyone sees the problem with the hair transplant and the guy from my understanding doesn't want to go back there.

 

Will anyone from the clinic comment on the issue??? At least he said his part of the story there is no response?"

 

I would imagine they need some time to sort through this thread and the accusations being leveled. After all, they are being accused of more than just a poor result here. Joe did tell his side of the story and it painted a very different picture. I'm sure we'll hear from the clinic soon. Also, I believe hairfarmer did say he was offered a refund of half his money.

 

hairfarmer, Despite there being what you have referred to as "trolls" on this thread (wylie does not fit that description, imo), I think you have been offered some very sound advice. Hopefully you can get everything sorted out and find an amicable resolution.

Edited October 29, 2014 by hairthere

[hairfarmer79]

"I don't understand why H&W doesn't offer some kind of a refund on the guy so he can move on with his life. I mean he is obviously unhappy everyone sees the problem with the hair transplant and the guy from my understanding doesn't want to go back there.

 

Will anyone from the clinic comment on the issue??? At least he said his part of the story there is no response?"

 

I would imagine they need some time to sort through this thread and the accusations being leveled. After all, they are being accused of more than just a poor result here. Joe did tell his side of the story and it painted a very different picture. I'm sure we'll hear from the clinic soon. Also, I believe hairfarmer did say he was offered a refund of half his money.

 

hairfarmer, Despite there being what you have referred to as "trolls" on this thread (wylie does not fit that description, imo), I think you have been offered some very sound advice. Hopefully you can get everything sorted out and find an amiable resolution.

 

After being labelled and accused of having a "persecution complex"

You suggest that's sound advice?

 

I'm glad you thought that one through.

 

People who continue to disgracefully play the "mental health card" are beneath contempt and should be removed or banned from this forum. If you honestly believe those types of comments are acceptable behavior then it;s very poor judgement and is simply not contributing to anything constructive in here.

 

To be labelled these types of things by non medical experts is defamation and it's on the public record for all to see. It's an abuse of forum policies and to allow it to continue is to have double standards, one rule for some other rules for others.

 

it's the same rules for everyone.

[hairthere]

Ok, at this point you're just lashing out at everyone. I never suggested those who said you had mental issues gave you sound advice. I was referring to those who have been telling you it's best and healthiest to just try and move beyond this ordeal. That your situation is fixable. I'm speaking from experience as someone who was truly screwed over by a terrible HT doctor and had absolutely zero resolve because the guy went out of business and disappeared. This was after giving me a low strip scar (I now have 2), and multiple mini and micro grafts in my hairline. His two high school student "techs" had no experience and he had his microscopes repo'ed which is why they didn't use them to dissect my grafts.

[hairfarmer79]

Yeah i know the feeling. The little clinic I had my old procedure in Melbourne Aust back in 2002 is nowhere to be seen any more. Can't find any listings for them, don't know what ever happened to them.

 

If only hair cloning had become a reality years ago none of us would be here now talking about this.

 

We would all be out driving convertibles and feeling the wind in our luscious locks.

[Number47]

Yeah i know the feeling. The little clinic I had my old procedure in Melbourne Aust back in 2002 is nowhere to be seen any more. Can't find any listings for them, don't know what ever happened to them.

 

If only hair cloning had become a reality years ago none of us would be here now talking about this.

 

We would all be out driving convertibles and feeling the wind in our luscious locks.

 

Or we would have to sell our convertibles to get it :D

[hairfarmer79]

lol very true mate, and there would be 10 year waiting lists.

[Dr. Jerry Wong]

I first met HF in person during the pre op consultation the day before his surgery. We spend quite some time discussing the pending surgery and answer any questions he had. Examination of HF’s scalp showed a transplanted hairline that was high enough to allow addition of single hairs in front of the larger grafts. I explained that we can improve on his existing hairline but that it will never look quite as good as if we started from scratch. By placing single hairs in front and around the larger grafts it would soften them sufficiently and allow them to co exist without needing to be removed. However, if a few of the existing larger grafts along the hairline continue to be a problem they can then be individually removed at a later date. We need this infill session to grow out in order to identify the problem grafts. This approach has the advantage of conserving as much of the previously transplanted hair as possible and only removing those that are absolutely necessary. The three goals we wanted to achieve for this surgery were: 1) improve on the previous scar. 2) improve coverage in the crown and mid scalp. 3) Soften and infill the hairline.

 

On the morning of the surgery I designed an irregular undulating hairline just slightly lower than the existing hairline. HF requested a straighter hairline. I redesigned the hairline to accommodate creating something with a straighter design. WE then both had a good look to ensure the hairline was even. He signed off on the design and we proceeded.

 

His donor area had very good density and laxity. We removed a strip containing the old scar and sufficient donor hair estimated to generate 2700 to 3000 grafts (the eventual number was 2837). HF had an unusual high level of interest in all phases of his surgery and wanted to know all the details as the surgery proceeded.

 

During the surgery patient was kept informed and shown with a mirror exactly where the slits were made and hair was to be grafted. We had an ongoing dialog and patient kept informed as the surgery proceeded.

 

5 days post op we identified some double hair grafts from his previous surgery that were positioned well below his transplanted hairline. 7 double hair grafts were then removed and relocated to the recipient area.

 

Post op there were no problems and both donor and recipient areas healed well. Post op the hair growth was typical of what we'd expect and most of the transplanted hair started to come in at 6 months. The 7 month photos looked very good.

I spoke with him around 3 months post op and again at length between 5 and 6 months post op. I have given him my personal email and we have had numerous exchanges not including the countless emails from the staff.

I was very surprised to hear that this surgery had such a devastating effect on HF’s life and that I was responsible. In the photos I saw a very good improvement and can’t understand how this could be anything other than positive. Maybe with the hair cut very short and on close inspection the older grafts may not look as natural. We knew this from the beginning that further work might likely be desired. That is the nature of repair work.

 

There has been a lot of stress as a result of the negative attention, unfounded or not, created by this patient's surgery. To be fair we need to look at this surgery as a whole to judge it. Did we reach the following goals we set out to achieve ?: 1) Improve and reduce the scar 2) How much improvement were we able to achieve in the crown and mid scalp? 3) Did we improve the hairline ? In order to do that I would request that HF provide us with 1) picture of scar so that we can compare. 2) 6 views of the scalp taken with the same field and angle as the pre op pictures. Preferably with hair the same length as pre op. The frontal photos need to have the head centered and squared. It also needs to include the eyebrows to see if indeed the hairline is uneven.

 

Edited October 29, 2014 by wong md

[Rootz]

On the morning of the surgery I designed an irregular undulating hairline just slightly lower than the existing hairline. HF requested a straighter hairline. I redesigned the hairline to accommodate creating something with a straighter design. WE then both had a good look to ensure the hairline was even. He signed off on the design and we proceeded.

 

Thanks for posting this, but I have to ask why was the assumption made that he wanted a significantly uneven hairline without discussing it first? And after he requested a straighter design, why was it still that uneven? I realize he gave you the thumbs up after the change, but when the doctor carries out a request by the patient there is usually a level of trust assumed that whatever the doctor did was for the best. You mentioned he continued to give you a thumbs up during various points of the procedure, but I think many people are sort of in shell shock during the process... and I assume he was drugged up as well.