JayLDD

Unknown loss is truly a moot point, surgeons can test for miniaturisation in these areas. Its not as if this is any different for someone in their 30s either, hairloss is progressive by nature, this risk doesn't magically change because you're a 20 year old NW3 rather than a 30 year old NW3. There's also absolutely no evidence that balding younger means you're more likely to hit a higher norwood pattern. No matter the age of balding, there is no evidence that your chance of being NW6 or NW7 is higher. Donor management beyond this is again unrelated to age, and donor miniaturisation tests are common and simple. The often rapid speed of loss is the only issue that doesn't also concern those in their 30s, so chasing losses can be a problem, which makes meds almost a very worthwhile first consideration like you say. I don't think anyone heading to NW5+ in their twenties that refuses to take finasteride is mature enough or in a good position for surgery. Imo its mostly fear of higher expectations + most guys this age aren't prepared financially or mentally for a bad result, and clinics don't want to bear that burden. I think this is a fairly good reason to avoid it for most guys in their early twenties, most don't have 10 grand for a surgery with a good surgeon and a further 10 grand for future surgery due to progressive loss or potential corrective work. At least in my case I first booked surgery right after turning 22 and what made it a success was that I was stabilised on meds, was very aware of risks and expectations, and had the money for multiple surgeries. It was absolutely the best time for me to have surgery and I'm sure for many others in the situation. Once you move out from home, work full time, start paying rent/saving for property etc the ability to take two weeks off and drop 10 grand on a hair transplant goes out the window to some degree. I'd also look at a result like Melvins (who admittedly has good hair and donor characteristics) as emphasising that even if you're quite far gone, its still possible to get a sizeable improvement. It just takes a lot of money, time and proper research to achieve that. But I'm sure that for many guys in their early twenties with a similar hair situation to his starting point, they could handle it and its a hell of a lot better than living through your early twenties as a bald guy. For many its not a possibility, but its not a black and white cut off. By 21 someone should be able to make the decision and take on the responsibility. Should be emphasised that finasteride is a lot more important and helpful than transplants are too as a first point of action.

He more often does the types of more youthful, flatter hairlines you refer to, but even on his Youtube videos for example there are still a lot of M shapes and NW2-NW2.5s. The vast majority of surgeons are not confident or competent in their ability to produce a natural appearing aggressive hairline, also an issue being that with particularly aggressive hairlines the density needs to be higher to be convincing. Because of this it might take more than one procedure to get density you want, it also leaves a potential problem in covering the full balding area if you lose the rest of your hair. Many surgeons are more (overly in my opinion) conservative in what they believe donor capacities are. Its always an individual case by case decision on whether it is possible and has minimal risk in the long term of course too. If you prefer Rahal's hairlines, I would definitely consult him first. Imo aggressive hairlines are mostly an issue of competence in donor management, design and density that most surgeons lack, Rahal certainly has those covered. Also it comes down to the surgeons taste in what they think looks good in terms of design to some degree why they have different approaches.

He's said himself that he's had a direct line with Erdogan including by email from despite making false claim after false claim about the clinic and attacking them from day one. He attacks him, the clinic and the tech model (which was known before he went) again and again on various threads saying they're incompetent or too young to be working there. Payam has also said he doesn't want to go back to the clinic at this point. The clinic can't wave a magic wand to improve the density, if Payam has already had significant access to discussing his result to the clinic, but attacks them on his and every thread possible including with false statements, and now doesn't want to go back, please explain exactly how the clinic is being unprofessional or what they are supposed to do. Not just from the perspective of ASMED, but from the perspective of future clinics that Payam wanted work from, if they had ever read this thread or his comments elsewhere there's a strong chance they wouldn't be willing to take him as a patient. I mean this in an objective sense and it isn't intended to offend, but Payam is not mentally cut out for hair transplants. Read his initial posts, he was a problem patient waiting to happen, and certainly if I was the clinic I wouldn't be handing out names of techs to someone who comes across as this neurotic. There are hundreds of bad results from good doctors on this forum, 99% don't resort to thoughtless, immature mud slinging and making false claims about the clinic they went to. The clinic should uphold their growth guarantee, but if Payam doesn't want to go back to the clinic then explain exactly what ASMED are supposed to do. If you ran a clinic, I doubt you'd be jumping through hoops to compensate or babysit someone who slanders your clinic with false information and almost single-handedly makes an effort to hurt your reputation. A lot of people questioning ASMED lately, despite 90% of the complaints coming from Payam and being littered everywhere. Of course he ignores that 95% of results on here and the international forum (which has over 40 from the last 18 months) that are positive, and that they're doing the work at a substantially cheaper rate than with someone like Konior who performs the extractions himself.

Keser imo does the best FUE work from those options, the most aesthetic hairlines and is cheaper. Both the local options are good too however if that might be simpler, Wesley worth considering if you still want FUE.

Despite the few crazies who say not to touch it, finasteride really can be a wonderdrug for the majority of users that aren't unlucky enough to get sides. Easily saved you at least ten grand for a fairly minuscule commitment. Crown doesn't even look remotely bad anymore.

Obvious NW2 with thinning in the NW3 area. His temple peaks are very far foward and corners high, so especially with the long hair it doesn't appear as much of an issue, but its approaching a NW3 in shape without a doubt. Can see in one of the pics obvious diffusion in the area too. The people saying he doesn't need surgery don't understand how long hair works. I guarantee if he cut it very short you'd have a different opinion.

Giant improvement. Reality is that no other clinics are achieving large scale FUE results like this.

Is Diep really half the price for FUT over FUE? If you were set on Diep I agree FUT would be a sensible choice especially in that case.

The hair is angled up and long for coverage, but even then you can clearly see that the density is very poor at the front. He has video showing weak density and gaps also. His final result people bring up to act as if Nader a great surgeon is after a SECOND procedure, people falsely assume it was a single pass, and after the first run through the result was below average. It still looks somewhat pluggy also. There is no issue with having to have multiple procedures to achieve ideal density, but this is hailed as the best case scenario Nader result and it still isn't top-tier. I guarantee that if you had to live with the low density result he had after his first surgery you wouldn't be happy, especially if expense is a major issue for you even for a single procedure. If Gabel's prices were even remotely a possibility, I would strongly consider saving for him rather than going for Nader. And yes Ziering is not a top surgeon, any who use the ARTAS for FUE are below par. Dr. Acar and Cinik in Turkey do far more consistent and more aesthetic work than Nader and are still well below his price even. There are more Cinik than Nader results on this forum, and a lot on the international forum also worth looking at.

There is definitely prejudice surgeons in third world countries, but imo neither of those surgeons do world standard work.There no recent results from Gaston (who is also a plastic surgeon, not a dedicated hair transplant surgeon so shouldn't be considered) and none that are particularly impressive, I also see more bad than good work from Nader. There is only a single Nader result that is ever held up by those advocating him and people never mention that it was two procedures to get it to that point, not a one and done.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to link other forums here, but Baubac's results are mostly on other major forums with initials BT and HS. Regarding Erdogan, on the international hairloss forum there are about 40 results from the past 18 months or so that are positive and another 15 or so on here. About 5% with growth below par, however they do guarantee a touchup guarantee for 90% growth. Most of the people complaining about the hairline being unnatural are bogus in my opinion, those complaining the loudest refusing to take photos of the situation and another one recently 23 months down the track suddenly says the work looks fine but didn't at 18 months. I don't take extreme closeups with obvious lens distortion, or harsh bahtroom lighting pics particularly seriously either. You have a select group of very vocal people like Payam (Admittedly his growth is poor as of yet) that make it seem more of an issue than it is, and people ignoring the significant number of good results. I'd definitely recommend looking at through the international forum because there are a lot more of his results and people seem more rational in general. Just translate it with Google Chrome. Imo Erdogan is at the peak of price/quality, although Freitas in Spain at 3.5 Euro is a very strong option also. Unfortunately over a one year waiting list, but I think Feriduni's is quite long also and I feel Freitas's results and hairline aesthetics are above his (Feriduni's of course being top notch too). It does kind of annoy me that there are a number of below par Feriduni results I have seen recently and people just ignore them probably because he is a Belgian rather than a Turk. If not for the waiting list I maybe would have gone to Freitas, although for the price I paid I can't fault ASMED in terms of growth or naturalness, I just think Freitas is a better and potentially the best (FUE) option globally for hairline artistry, also at a reasonable price.

None that I noticed. The first procedure the area was VERY numb for maybe 4 months, this time round virtually none of the same issue. Smaller area covered this time however.

Shedding about two weeks subsequent. Scalp tenderness in the donor for possibly a month but after ten days or so nothing to bad. Huge itching issues for the first 3 months or so.

I think it was at around the 8th month. They did make clear that graft numbers were up in the air until it was inspected by Koray, but I was looking to cover the crown which was previously untouched, and also lower the hairline so it didn't matter when it was done, it was new areas being covered mostly. Also at 8 months it was fairly obvious what the final results would look like, and the first available date was over a year from the first procedure. I did consider work on the temples, but ultimately thought it was smarter to cover the crown, add density to previously transplanted areas and get the same of the hairline perfect. My temple points aren't pronounced and are a little thin, but I don't think they have actually changed much even from when I was a teenager. Looking at a couple of photos the second procedure approach is fairly similar to my natural pre-hairloss appearance.

"I genuinely thought I would sit and discuss my case with him, present and future for a length of time" You did and all his patients do, why say things which aren't true and wind yourself up further? If its a time issue, what difference is an hour discussion going to make to covering it in fifteen minutes? Yes he does multiple patients per day, but you spent ten grand on a procedure, the idea that you didn't read patient experiences, go on Youtube or read the details clearly that the clinic present about this in your booking is absurd. Sorry, but there's no other way of putting it. And what difference does it make if they're young girls or young men? They're all look mid twenties to mid thirties from what I saw, 99% of transplant clinics use women as surgical technicians and assistants, again you're looking to create problems in your head where there isn't one. Are women in their early twenties not equipped to perform a task which is mostly based on hand eye coordination, basic procedural understanding, long term experience and fine motor skills? Think through what you're saying, because it sounds ridiculous a lot of the time. And I think you misinterpret what Melvin is saying, he's not pretending that your result so far is great or that it would be an acceptable final result, but rather that the work isn't unnatural, your donor is still in good shape, you've evidently had growth it just isn't as dense as it could be, and its improving month by month. In the case that your result isn't up to scratch, the clinic offers a 90% guarantee specifically because they're open about the fact that there are a small group of unlucky patients that don't get results they hoped for, so you can't pretend you weren't aware of the risks. Is a touchup the end of the world? No. Were you aware going into the procedure that every surgeon has poor results and perfect growth isn't a guarantee? Yes you most certainly were and the clinic says as much. No one can know why a result doesn't turn out perfectly and those pretending to you are pathetic salesman trying to feed their ego and get you in the door for your wallet, nothing more. I've seen everything from virtually zero growth, technical issues like poor angulation and donor depletion, or even necrosis among many top surgeons globally including those in the United States and Canada, many of which charge more than double what ASMED does. I'm not putting anyone down, but I've seen multiple poor Cooley results here (a surgeon double the price) in the past 6 months including one with more grafts than you, and the patients were still emotionally collected and calm. There are zero reason a poor result has to lead to accusations of misconduct, being treated poorly or saying your result was "botched", because in your case for example its just not true. Don't kid yourself into thinking that you've been badly treated, the clinic wants you to get a good result just as you do. Everyone here wants you to get a result in fact, but you don't think through what you say and fling mud in a situation where a clear head would benefit you 10x more. If you had gone with Konior to begin with for example, it would absolutely not have "guaranteed" a better or a good result, but it would have guaranteed a surgery 3 times the price. Either way, none of this is the end of the world and you'll be best suited to deal with it with a calmer mentality. The reality is that you've had a net gain with this surgery and hair restoration is a journey, not a once off. Hopefully down the track you can get the result you hoped for, but its not a guarantee no matter who the surgeon. Sean who posted here went to a surgeon multiple times who has produced countless incredible results and still didn't achieve one that was acceptable for him. You can't always know the reasoning as to why a result doesn't turn out well or if it would in future.

Considering that you've virtually lost your entire frontal third and only have a thinned out forelock that ought to have grafts placed into it, I would definitely look at Erdogan in Turkey, as you'd benefit from higher graft numbers. 1600 grafts could give you a thick forelock and very minor adjustment to the hairline, but you will 100% still appear heavily receding or thinning depending on how coverage is decided. Diep and Baubac in the US are other options I'd look at, a more aggressive approach is ideal for you imo. Doesn't necessarily mean an ultra low hairline etc, but 2500-3000 grafts minimum would be ideal so you don't come out still looking like a balding guy.

Definitely shedding. Imo the crown area almost certainly didn't experience shock loss, the thinning just becomes very apparent and contrasting to thicker areas at that length. Ugly duckling stage for the next 3 months or so.

You're making more of a fuss here than you need to. Forget the current doctor if he doesn't offer what you want, and find a surgeon that will. Your goals don't appear to be unrealistic in any way and your starting position is reasonable. Baubac and Diep for example in the USA do very impressive hairlines on the more aggressive side. I will say though that despite the conservative hairline, the work looks fine. The density is certainly above 17%, that's an absurd number. Nor does the angulation look that bad, I think you may be overthinking how problematic it is.. I do think it is too straight, but its not outright jarring. But if its impacting your life this much, just do something about it, not really sure what the point of whining here is, you seem to know what you want and are aware other surgeons are offering it, so why not get it done? (with a good surgeon of course).

The incisions (opening of the channels) is the most important part of the surgery. Certainly worth paying the extra $500.

OP I don't understand this photo from the 7 month mark. Looks like nothing has grown here. Did one side grow but not the other?

I personally don't think any issue you might have would be a result of your techs, but yes it was the same team as last time. I didn't have PRP either time. On the point of techs, you have to appreciate that different patients are suited to having a doctor do everything and others aren't. For myself and 99% of patients in my situation, they could never have had the results or graft numbers I did via FUE with a surgeon like Keser or Konior that does the entire surgery. At this graft number with Konior it also would have cost almost $50000 USD. Its not realistic and quite frankly its a waste of money for those who require large graft numbers like you or myself. Unless I'm looking for small refinement work where it would be of benefit, I don't want to pay cosmetic surgeon wages. Using techs has nothing to do with dishonesty or trying to screw patients over like you're pretending to yourself. It also avoids surgeon fatigue. Look away from ASMED at other major clinics where the surgeon does all the work and you will still see poor results with all of them. You need to stop thinking you've been badly treated because you haven't. The vast majority who go to ASMED are getting good results, look on the International forum where there are about 40 results from the past 12 months. 95% are positive.

Hard to be sure but I think its roughly the same at this point.

Obviously the result is fantastic, but also its a case those who suggest that juvenile hairlines don't look good on older men should be directed to.

Ban this guy, he's trying to market for his clinic but his signature, banner and avatar have been removed for promotional content. Unfair to the idiots that are paying him to market when he is wasting their money and time too.

5 months. Hair still has a lot of length to grow (about two more months to blend with my typical length on top), but the majority of the growth has begun and at a distance and without harsh lighting you can see the new hairline well. I'll get some better pics later but just thought these showed the basics of the new hairline nicely.