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Everything posted by JayLDD

  1. Right, but people aren’t booking surgery through this forum, they’re doing it through the clinic website. When doing that, they will be guided through the various packages where the details are made clear and the HTN logo is specifically shown for the package in which Cinik makes the incisions, as is currently the case with other references to HT societies etc. I agree with you that maybe the DHI package shouldn’t be referred to other than to mention that Cinik is not involved in the surgical aspects of it.
  2. I find myself agreeing very much with Bill on the issue. I realise that I'm well educated and someone who enjoys researching for big ticket purchases, but if someone can't read the package details saying the surgeon isn't involved then I really don't see how they could blame anyone but themselves when the recommendation is clearly for Cinik and no the clinic. I also don't see any evidence that Bill misunderstood anything other than that Cinik wasn't involved in the surgical aspects of the DHI method. I genuinely don't understand the point, this website would recommend Cinik, if someone decides to get a procedure at the clinic and chooses a package where Cinik doesn't involve himself in any of the surgery, then what is the problem and how could they blame this on the forums recommendation? In what world does one assume people don't even read the major details (its not fine print) relating to a procedure when going to Turkey and spending thousands on surgery? This just seems totally outrageous to me. The other fact is that if anyone has seen the significant amount of Cinik results across various forums (there is a huge number) they'd know that he is above average as an FUE surgeon than the majority of surgeons recommended here. He would absolutely not lower the standards of the website. In fact he'd undeniably be a fantastic option for people on a very tight budget that still feel they cannot deal with their hairloss situation and likely would help a significant number of these people who are trying to wade through the cheap options in Turkey. Better they're led to a genuine clinic that has a track record of good results. I also find it wrong that no one here is focusing on results (again there are a huge number particularly on the international forum) but rather the "muh techs brah" meme which is truly meaningless and says virtually nothing about consistency or quality of the results. It also annoys me that some people are suggesting there could be huge issues arising out of this, well I've seen plenty of major NA surgeons have periods where literally 50% of their results turned out terrible and they weren't getting 1/5th of the patient posted results of Cinik, absolutely no one cares. Its so agitating the way people just ignore the risks or potential failures in hair transplant surgery from NA clinics but for a cheap Turkish clinic they act like a single bad result is the end of the world, that or ignore statistics and focus on raw numbers of bad results they can find. I feel confident saying this because I've seen enough of his results to know that Cinik is doing better work than the average FUE procedure even from recommended American clinics on this site. I've also looked at the website, they're only using using the logos of various international boards and HT societies on the package in which Cinik is involved in and clearly aren't trying to hide or mislead on this so am sure they won't emphasise the HTN recommendation anywhere other than the package Cinik is involved in either. Ultimately I think a signifcant number of people will benefit from the recommendation. There are plenty of top-tier clinics for the wealthy or frivolous, work coming out of Ciniks clinic is above average even on this website and at the cheapest prices on the site gives a lot of people who couldn't have afforded a top-end clinic a safe option.
  3. Having seen a significant amount of his work for a long time across multiple forums, Cinik objectively reaches the standards of the average FUE surgeon recommended here. In my opinion he is well above it, for the lowest prices on the entire website. His work is by no means the most refined I have ever seen but I've enough of his work to say that he is worth considering and a safe option for those on a tight budget. Totally agree with Bills point about him having options for full tech oriented procedures. There is full transparency of this from what I've seen from the clinic and if people can't read the basics of fine print like this when spending thousands on travelling for a surgical procedure then there's no saving them. One issue that should be addressed is the poor post/pre/final result photos which can easily be fixed with a someone at the clinic spending a few days learning necessary skills and spending a grand on a decent DSLR. Ultimately there is a lot of fat I'd trim in the recommendations list on this website, but even after that I'd still have room for a budget clinic like this that from what I've seen is consistently doing acceptable work, and even on this website above par FUE work. Doing so emphasising that the recommendation is only for the package in which he does the incisions, which should be obvious for anyone choosing him imo considering the website recommends the doctor by name and not the clinic. I also don't think its by any means outrageous to consider the forum recommending a clinic that has issues like this and might not be creating works of art like a Couto, Konior Keser etc when its at such a low price point. Not every clinic is doing work at the level or involvement of Couto, Konior or Keser, but at the same time not everyone wants to spend the money they charge/endure their waiting lists. If I had a friend who was seriously down about their hairloss but in no financial position to even go to a clinic like ASMED, I would absolutely recommend a clinic like this while also mentioning caveats and areas they don't reach the level of cream of the crop clinics. Ultimately I think those in that position would still gladly accept the average results coming from Cinik at this price point. Another reality is that there are plenty of people on this forum going to surgeons in the west, paying eight times more for half the grafts as a NW4 and coming out looking cosmetically worse by the standards of what any person on the street asked would think.
  4. JayLDD

    Couto & Freitas

    Freitas uses techs for extraction, Couto does himself.
  5. OP, imo I would consult surgeons who are top-tier at small refined FUE hairline cases like Keser or Konior.
  6. When I see people look at a case like this and say its all fine when clearly there are ample multis in the hairline, the density is bad, the placement is unnatural and all over the place with hairs placed in at random at the front in a low density fashion for no particular reason, the angles are off and there is obvious cobblestone scarring, I continue to scratch my head at the people losing their minds saying that ASMED can't produce a good hairline. This thread is proof that people have zero ability to objectively judge hairline aesthetics as much as they want to pretend, period. If this was produced anywhere in Turkey, people would be shitting on this result. I mean for god sake, at least on the multigraft issue I'd expect people to be able to see an issue.
  7. There's data suggesting that 0.25mg of finasteride has similar efficacy and effect on DHT levels to 1mg, I'd get get the 1mg tablet and quarter it to see if that makes a difference. The peak effect of the drug in your body won't change whether you take it daily, every 2, 3 etc so I suspect that won't change any issues you might have. Little good data on this though its mostly trial and error and hearsay.
  8. IMO from what I’ve experienced and discussed with multiple doctors that have prescribed it for me the situation is far simpler. The doctors I talked to all said it was one of their most prescribed drugs, and a few times a year they’d have a person come back mentioning side effects. Roughly a few %. This aligns with the studies suggesting anywhere from 2-8%. The truth is most people aren’t at all susceptible to any sides whatsoever, and another small group of people are extremely susceptible. My experience was a large increase in sex drive for the first month, and back to normal after that. Over two years down the track I can’t say I’ve lost any more hair despite closing in on a NW5 as a 22 year old and I’ve experienced zero side effects. If you have sides I’d definitely come off, or maybe try 0.25mg as I have done to begin with.
  9. Very much agree. It is what it is though, hard to expect clinics to do any different but people can always make sure they do extensive research of patient posted results.
  10. You can call it whatever you like, at the end of the day its about accountability in an area where people are spending significant sums of money. If someone posts a result that is 12 months in with zero growth and a surgeon doesn't offer a touchup, refund or anything at all, then the leverage is important and a surgeon ought to be aware their reputation is at stake. The entire point of the forum is accountability, there's nothing unethical about being aware of this when dropping ten grand or more on surgery. Also strongly agree with Melvin's point in that its also unfair to a surgeon to post a result you're not happy with a name drop with before consulting them, and likely an independent surgeon before doing this. By leaving the name out, you can get a broad variety of opinions from forum goers, along with perhaps another surgeon elsewhere to take back to the surgeon at 12 months if you're still unhappy with the result and are looking for a remedy. Someone might come in and post a result at five months they're unhappy with (and I've seen this before) and name drop the surgeon, already leaving a permanent mark that people newly researching transplants might see and instantly be put off by without having any understanding of the way a procedure works or the time it takes for full results. I'm also not saying at 6 months you should be telling your doctor "if it doesn't turn out ok you're getting shit on all over the internet", but a smart consumer is going to be as fair as possible, wait twelve months, discuss with their doctor at any point if they're ever uncomfortable about their current result, and consult various external opinions before putting the surgeon in a bad light without confirmation. If at that point they're not willing to do anything, it will have been very helpful to have kept available leverage and good relationship with the surgeon prior to that.
  11. If you don’t put the doctors name you can still get opinions to refer back to them to make a case. You can then explain that if they don’t remedy a bad result you will make everything public and complain about them in every place possible. You lose this leverage if you make their name public from the outset. That’s the smart version anyway. Some people might just not know the forum rules, be worried they’re misinterpreting something or don’t want to insult the doctor without getting opinions first.
  12. Hi Everybody. I have previously had a 3000 graft FUE at ASMED 12 months ago, linked here: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/186728-asmed-koray-erdogan-3070-grafts-april-10th.html Overall very satisfied with the results from the first procedure, but still wanted to address the crown which was previously untouched, as well as density issues in some areas of the previous transplant, and create a slightly more aggressive hairline with more youthful closure at the temples, including an alteration to the overall design. Some background on my situation, I was initially a NW3V diffusing in a NW5 pattern that is very noticeable when wet but not an issue dry and with longer hair, 22 years old at the time, and had stabilised on finasteride. First procedure was solely for the hairline and created a slightly conservative NW 1.5-2 with 3070 grafts. My donor had roughly 9500 grafts to begin with and I am left with potentially another 2000-3000 after the second procedure, but the clinic suggested this is impossible to know for sure unless it is analysed 12 months down the track. In online consult 2000-2500 grafts were suggested for crown and frontal work, but in person Koray thought 3000 would be worthwhile to create a significant improvement in both the crown frontal third. Ultimately suggesting 1500 in the frontal third and 1500 in the crown. He also seemed impressed with the standard of my donor after the first procedure. Some stats on the second procedure: 3038 grafts – Hair/Graft ratio: 2.1 (quite a bit lower than the first time round) Average Hair Thickness – 50 microns Singles - 557 Doubles - 1709 Triples - 697 Quadruples - 74 Quintuples - 1 Sextuples - 0 Minor points, this time I stayed at the hotel rather than the clinic and preferred it quite a bit. Very comfortable and calming, good food for very cheap prices and there's a lot of options for places to visit a quick walk away also. That said the clinic room was very convenient. Of course as with last time the clinic staff and my clinic supervisor were very accommodating. A few have mentioned forgetting to covert some Euros to Lira upon arrival to Istanbul, the clinic was happy to convert right there and for a good rate too, so don't worry about doing so at the airport. Another point, from a front view and in dimmer lighting the very tight buzz the clinic bring the hair down to reflected that the previous work looked very natural and had no visible density issues, although from a top view seen in the clinic photos there's a noticeable difference in density between the areas with natives and those previously implanted. Noticed the same in cases like Yas and acegik who both went for 2nd procedures at ASMED, although not a huge issue unless you're planning to constantly having people looking at the top of your scalp. The donor scarring from the first procedure was also clearly visible when the scalp was buzzed to a zero, not that this is a problem or unexpected as one shouldn't go in assuming FUE is scarless or that they could get away with a buzz that tight to begin with. Just a point to note. Hair was in significant need of a cut when going in for photos, so note it also didn't look its best by any means
  13. I don’t have access to the good camera anymore and at this length my hair gets very curly so the hairline isn’t exposed. Can’t say I’ve noticed a difference since 7.5 months. Anyway this is how it looks atm. Planning on buzzing it in a few weeks.
  14. Yes however they focused most of the added density on one side and the other could still do with more grafts imo. But with wet hair or under harsh bathroom light the difference between the new areas of hairline and previously transplanted with added density is visible. The other side which most of the density was added is literally perfect, or very close to it.
  15. I would definitely consult Lorenzo, he’d be a good fit I think. Cinik of course you’re not going to be getting the best service in the world for those prices, but in terms of the procedure itself I do think largely he has an effective and reasonably consistent system in place. If I had serious budget issues I would consider him with more research. I wouldn’t disregard Rahal completely if price isn’t a huge issue to you, but if I remember the graft quote was in my opinion too low.
  16. Honestly in your situation the main surgeons I would be considering are Erdogan or Hasson/Wong if you were inclined to go for FUT. Knowing your situation it is an issue of coverage, no one else is doing the huge FUE graft numbers I think best suit you in one go. I'd also definitely look at Lorenzo for FUE although I think he maxes out at 3000 grafts for one procedure, but you could do the crown/midscalp and hairline spread 6 months apart. He also has many cases on below average donors with people requiring extensive coverage.
  17. This would be a fair enough comment if not for the fact that OP went to one of the most expensive surgeons in the world. Plenty of top-tier surgeons at significantly cheaper rates, many would be better off selecting an elite surgeon like Hasson/Wong who are relatively inexpensive for their FUT work if it meant they could afford a second surgery. I’m also not suggesting that is usually a “requirement”, but rather virtually no one gets perfect results in a single pass, or even one that can’t be significantly improved usually. It’s just a fact. Obviously time factors, budget, location all come into this too but it should be a consideration and the vast majority of people would be better off budgeting for multiple procedures. OP got a great result however and certainly doesn’t need more work at this point. But always room for improvement.
  18. Both among top-tier clinics, particularly Rahal one of the best hairline surgeons in the world still. Neither has a lot of patient posted results at the moment which is the particular drawback I'd personally consider.
  19. For mid-large size procedures and happy to wait over a year for surgery, Freitas. For a mid-large sized procedure and a smaller waiting list, ASMED for FUE or HnW for FUT. For a small refinement or hairline procedure and ability to wait over a year, Konior or Keser. The reality is the level of results in US are not unquestionably higher, people just tend to ignore small imperfections or bad results from US surgeons that they wouldn't elsewhere and drill the idea that technicians performing surgery is bad. Unconvinced that any in the US are a noticeable level above say a Feriduni, Freitas or Keser in Europe. Although Canadian, especially for FUT and high graft numbers where the price drops, HnW isn't what I would consider expensive though tbh. Very reasonable value. I think they also discount on future procedures. No matter who you choose, I would go to a surgeon for whom you could afford more than one surgery with in the short term as very few get perfect results in a single pass and you're generally better off with more grafts and a second procedure than a surgeon who is already stretching the budget one a single run through.
  20. Tends to depend on where you’re from whether that’s an acceptable hair style but personally I much prefer seeing this occasionally than everyone getting the same fade with the front spiked up. Also seems to suit your face. in my experience the longer it gets the more of an issue one has with bad and good hair days though. Hair transplants tend to work best in a middle ground but yours looks very good for this length.
  21. I felt like most of my growth occurred between 4 and 6, peak change period being around 4.5-5.5. Which is fairly typical imo. Definitely including bare spots.
  22. I would say reassess at around the 7 month market, typically at that point the vast majority has sprouted in 99% of cases and is at a reasonable length. Beyond that I'm very sceptical of drastic improvements but 5 months is still in the middle of the most productive period for the average person. Preop pics would certainly help.
  23. Also I thought I'd just explicitly mention in regards to what I've mentioned before, none of the North American/European clinics I've mentioned in regards to success rates are intended to attack or suggest that they are overrated/not producing good work, but rather that when people see a poor result from a surgeon the best practise is to compile a list (even mentally) of every one of their results you can find across different percentages and look at percentage success rates (!) rather than a few individual cases, and which ones make the most noise. The reality is that in doing this you'll find is that no clinic has a perfect or even a near perfect track record. Every top-clinic has its share of below part, average, good and great results, if you look at the statistics (which I have) it is easy to see that ASMEDs yields are consistent with global standards of big name FUE clinics. Anyone who does their research will come to the same conclusion. Part of getting a hair transplant is accepting that the doctor you're going to no matter who it is has poor results, importantly I would consider what the clinics are prepared to do in the case of a patient not being satisfied, ASMED, Rahal and HnW are examples that do have examples of standing by their results post-op. Especially impressed recently with Hasson who readily who put it in writing for Legend and his case on here. When you're arguing against records of post-op care and statistics you're not helping yourself or anyone else.
  24. Ok I’ll avoid using a certain persons name this time: Someone who spends ten grand on a surgical procedure in a Turkey without reading a single patient review or questions whether a doctor is doing all surgical work when it isn’t explicitly mentioned anywhere and is actually implied otherwise is probably not worth taking seriously on their opinions of hair transplants, or anything of great importance at all for that matter. A person who does this and on top of that doesn’t believe in statistics, ignores them or doesn’t apply them universally is probably an idiot/dishonest person, and should be listened to with extreme skepticism. A person who does this and doesn’t think it’s racist/sexist/ageist to keep mentioning “young Turkish girls” in a derogatory fashion, or that mentioning them as having low intelligence as racist is all the above plus a rather shitty person. Maybe someone should tell PFG FC that the the two hundredish mil they spent on Mbappe was all a waste, didn’t they realise he’s only 20 years old!? Add to that telling people on the other forum “you will be butchered” if you go to ASMED, yeah, it all does add up to a fairly shitty, dishonest, vindictive, and untrustworthy person that I wouldn’t recommend anyone take too seriously. Not mentioning names this time of course, because we are all being civil here, because of course telling people they will be “butchered” going to this clinic is oh so civil and reasoned.