JayLDD

Prices are a symptom of the cost of the national currency, state of the economy, wages, what people are willing to pay, and rent/land costs. To provide quality service in the United States costs significantly more than it would in Turkey or even Spain for example for these reasons. Point is they aren't just trying to rip you off. I would also extend the importance of research to apply even for those staying in the United States or any Western nation too though, plenty of botch jobs and horrible circumstances amongst poor doctors in those countries too. Other countries can objectively provide equal service for cheaper for economic reasons, one should do plenty of research wherever they're looking at rather than specifically looking at cost.

To be fair Payam and this is what I don't think you seem to understand, I could find you 5 or more poor growth cases in the last 3 years or so from Feriduni, Cooley, Rahal, and Hasson/Wong among just some top surgeons (likely the majority of the others also) and I'm not saying that as to insult them, I'm saying it because you seem to be under the assumption that hair-transplant surgery is somehow a guarantee and that a bad result somehow indicates that you're the victim of some type of malpractice whenever it occurs. I've seen necrosis cases from two of these surgeons too. You say you didn't do your research initially which is why you went to ASMED, I would recommend you do some research on other surgeons to learn the reality that not everyone gets a good result no matter where they go. On top of that ASMED have more posted results online than any other clinic, literally hundreds (of documented positive results including about 50 from the last 18 months) and do 4 patients a day. Some of the clinics above and many others that are only doing 1-2 surgeries per day with literally a fifth or less of the patient posted results of ASMED online and yet still have more bad results, the difference is they were lucky enough however that they didn't get people littering delusional complaints over the forum, including some for over two years from those that literally didn't even have a bad result (that also were offered a free touchup). I know that certain members are offended by statistics and facts, but if a clinic is doing 4 surgeries a day and have 4 times the amount of poor results as a clinic doing one surgery a day, statistically their success rate is the same. The reality is that ASMED have 5 times the posted results of some of these other clinics and are doing 2-4x the amount of patients, and still have less poor results than 90% of other clinics, I know because I've looked. I also know that certain irrational individuals will throw out the bulldog and biased insults to me again (not you specifically) but the reality is that I am PMed multiple times weekly sometimes by people asking for advice on surgeons and the majority of the time I'm not even suggesting ASMED as a first recommendation, I'm not saying this because of bias I'm saying it because a small group of wannabe activists are trying to damage the reputation of a clinic when they themselves clearly don't know what the hell they're talking about, refuse to acknowledge or research facts, and don't apply standards universally. You specifically PMed me about my thoughts 3 months ago if the result didn't turn out well and I said if possible regarding finances you should go to another surgeon, specifically one that does a slow and more meticulous approach like Konior or Keser, if that doesn't show a lack of bias nothing does. Also on some of the cases you mentioned, Acegiks did indeed have gaps after his first procedure, but after two procedures this is where he ended up and for less money than a 3000 graft procedure with Konior: Also you bring up ht0416 whose transplant looks like this, and the vast majority on the thread he posted results on thought it was a good result: and when wet Personally I think the shape of the hairline isn't perfectly natural or irregular enough and is too rounded, but ASMED bring up the desired hairline design multiple times, once pre-shave and a day before the procedure so you have plenty of time to change your mind and question with your coordinator. The density is absolutely not an issue, this is not a failed transplant in any sense. I honestly want you to get a successful repair and meet the goals you had before you began surgery, but considering what you're still saying you are yet to do proper research on hair transplants. I think anyone would appreciate at this point that your result was not a success, no bones about it, but you also weren't poorly treated or a victim of any sort. Yes ASMED have bad results and more than one, but so does every other top clinic that you choose to ignore for the purpose of an agenda. You were unlucky (maybe the flu like symptoms you had after the procedure caused some issues, who knows) , move on and plan a repair with a surgeon that suits your needs in an absolute sense but this time do your research without the tunnel vision you started off with and seem to retain. Also as Baldwin mentioned, you do have obvious steady improvement and in terms of coverage you're in a significantly better position than preop, there has been substantive growth and even if it takes a repair to get achieve natural density, it will require many less grafts down the track to get a result you're happy with. Your point about donor capacity not being able to achieve coverage in this area after the first procedure is absolutely silly, I can guarantee you are in a position to get a successful repair via FUE at the 1500-1800 graft range while still maintaining the donor for future procedures.

Its not a rational approach just because you say it calmly, and I mention the original 1700 number because it very clear that barely a few hundred grafts grew in the transplanted area. That was the obvious implication, and unless you're blind you'd see it. 1000 grafts absolutely isn't going to achieve acceptable density in that area, why make 3-4-5 procedures out of this? Its a stupid idea plain and simple. You're suggesting that he should consider PAYING money even at a discounted rate to the same clinic that gave a poor result. Even if someone goes to a top clinic and has poor results I wouldn't recommend they go back and it doesn't make sense to do so unless purely for financial reasons of a free repair when they can't afford to go elsewhere. They'd benefit from going to a surgeon that utilises separate techniques because there is no guarantee that going through the same experience as prior is going to magically yield better results. Why would it logically be different considering the procedural elements at their clinic will likely be the same for every patient? Of course there are other variables and reasons are unknowable to some degree, but the least risky option is to go elsewhere. Where did I say he shouldn't hear his surgeons assessment or that he should fly to Turkey for a procedure tomorrow like you seem to imply either? You're misrepresenting me after criticising a comment you didn't even read properly, or more likely ignored so you could have a bitch about your point being rejected (for good reason). The quality in the UK is absolutely not at the same level as it is internationally, the countries I mentioned are nearby and have multitudes of options to look at, and I did emphasise "LOOK AT" implying to research, not fly over tomorrow which you suggest I was saying. He should of course do ample research and take his time, but a good conclusion in that case probably not involving going back to a surgeon that yielded a hundred and fifty or so grafts out of 1700.

OP, I absolutely would not listen to this advice. Realistically, he had 1700 grafts and a repair to achieve strong density in the area looking at the current state of it would be roughly.....1700 grafts. Imo you should look away from the UK at Belgium, Turkey and Spain for some top FUE options.

Specifically because Konior uses stick and place which would also benefit because it would only be transplanting in between existing hairs to add density, I wouldn't alter the hairline. I'm not seriously considering it at the moment though, it would be nice to literally fill every last gap but there's a lot more that I'd rather spend money on at this point. Even for a 23 year old I have quite a good head of hair. I don't think I will ever have issues with running out of donor. Even if I lost every last native hair I would be able to cover the area if the yield was similar to these two procedures, and I don't think I've gone backwards at all since I started finasteride so see it as unlikely that I'll need to for a long period of time at least.

I thought this batch of outdoors pics would show the hairline better but I should have just pulled it back, I'll do some at 7 months. It is quite close to perfect, you can see that small circle in the crown that likely could have done with more grafts and being dense packed, but also behind the hairline towards the midscalp on one side there is an area that never had enough grafts placed in it across both procedures. Likely some improvement left to come from this procedure but I'm guessing with another 1500 grafts or so, maybe 400 in that crown area, 400 in the hairline and 700 on the thinner side back into the midscalp area it would be *literally* perfect in regards to what transplants can achieve. Not that I'm planning on doing it, but if I was on a six figure salary I would go to Konior really refine every last gap. Maybe in four or five years. My result is better than what I thought was plausible at the beginning though, can't fault the work from ASMED and its 6000 grafts for less than half the amount of money some people spend at other top clinics that still don't always get good growth. Can wear it how I want and don't have to worry about hair no matter the setting anymore, realistically my hair is better than that of some of my similarly aged friends who don't have hairloss, but the waviness definitely helps a lot. One thing I've also noticed is that having read Erdogan claim that homogenisation of overall scalp density via FUE due to thinning of the donor is a benefit of FUE, my experience suggests is that this isn't just marketing. My donor was just stupidly thick and unmanageable compared to the top before the first procedure but is in a much better place at this point.

He didn't have any problems with the idea but I didn't press for it to be especially low, mainly just a change to the overall shape and squaring it off more at the temples than lowering it significantly. Its about 900 grafts in the hairline direct area with another 600ish spread behind in the frontal third for more density. He did ask if I was continuing finasteride and emphasised the worth of doing so. Personally I don't think you need to lower your corners further, but definitely makes sense that considering your large area of loss he wouldn't risk a juvenile hairline in a first procedure. You'd definitely benefit from work at the temples though which would make the corners appear less of an issue.

Freitas, Keser, Baubac, Hasson are some I would also consider. Obviously it relates to preference also, much more important that you yourself can look at results of various surgeons and understand why and which you prefer. No surgeon can guarantee good results either, but I personally would have strongly considered Rahal if I was looking for FUT.

6.5 months, lengths still out of wack which is annoying for styling it but my hair hasn't been this good since I was 19.

5 months is nothing, its in the middle of what is usually the most productive growth period. I'd wait until around the 7 -8 month mark before making any fundamental judgements. Approaching 5 months is well before you can make an accurate assessment.

Dumb and dishonest thing to say. I don't think this is an acceptable result, the defences were against people who were clearly being disingenuous and making false or misleading claims. OP you should contact the clinic and see if they are able to offer a resolution.

lul some of you guys are grossly overreacting. I guarantee if you were on the other side of collecting bills or an account that had say 6 months at least to pay and still went overdue you'd think differently. It would be great if they did work something out but I suspect better communication may have helped in the short term too. I honestly don't think its so bad for Legend either. Especially considering he keeps his hair long FUT would suit him and Hasson would do great work for him. Hopefully their waiting list isn't too extensive. I would have considered Baubac again also.

The thread is still available to view. "which got suddenly shut down right after a guy added a comment describing many other poor cases he found from the clinic (international forum I’m assuming)" Actually someone else did a lengthy search and posted links around 15 positive results on the international forum from the past year which you fail to mention and Bill posted 6 positive cases from this forum that he saw from a quick look. There was another guy who came and posted two unhappy patient from the Italian forum, neither had especially poor results. Anyone who gets a certain level of growth is offered a touch-up So why lie and say "many other poor cases" and avoid the fact that someone else provided 15 positive cases a few posts beforehand? You keep acting like you're trying to make them clinic more accountable and educate patients, so why are you so explicitly being misleading? Not to mention that anyone that suggested you were overreacting was called a bulldog including the mods. You say above that you want an open debate, except apparently one where everyone who disagrees with you and can provide evidence to the contrary should piss off. How lacking in any shred of self-awareness can you get? Saying that people can't voice their opinions, yet you engage in personal attacks, name calling of those who disagree with you and say they shouldn't respond. Anyone, even those with personal experience that respond disagreeing with you is an instance of "derailing" a conversation apparently. Among the hundreds of those who get good results, the majority aren't interesting in getting into a flame war with a group of irrational, delusional children like yourself. Some like HT0 outright tells those who are happy with their results from the clinic that they are bad and don't know what a natural hairline looks like. Pathetic. I wouldn't have responded, but you explicitly bring me up by name. You also tried to diminish my results on the previous thread saying you would wish to have hair like mine before I had any work done before I could respond and the thread was closed. Right, because you really wish you had hair like this, I'm sure: You were clearly being disingenuous and using it as an excuse to attack the clinic with a baseless comment that you didn't think anyone would check up on.

I agree nothing the doctor did was malicious or outside standard practice, but this new title is equally if not more misleading. A deposit was paid and pocketed but they cancelled due to it being a day late, not because he couldn't afford it. I doubt Diep's office would have had any issue accommodating this, Also suspect they would have booked in a new patient on a cancellation waiting list for the slot already, and after pocketing the $1000 deposit. "Procedure with Dr. Diep cancelled after payment was a day late" would be more accurate. They're running a tight ship and its fair enough, but it also doesn't make them seem like they go out of their way to be helpful on a customer service level either despite it certainly being possible in this case. But who knows, we don't know the full correspondence anyway.

Tbh your best bet is just growing it out a bit longer for the next 6 months or so. My redness took a full 9 months or so to go to the point where it was no longer visible, not much you can do about it honestly. A small amount of shockloss also possible which tends to fix itself by the 6 month mark. Wouldn't worry until around that point, or even longer potentially.

From the results I have seen I don't think Keller is equipped or experienced in dealing with high norwoods like yourself that desire full coverage. You would have strongly benefited from the select small group of mega-session surgeons like those I mentioned above that could achieve a fullish coverage in a single procedure, if you were to have a second procedure I would recommend you research them. Also Hattingen clinic is another to look at.

"30 year old whose objective was to have a conservative frontal hair restoration," The presentation from Keller said this so I assumed, seems a little dishonest then. Imo because your case was difficult from the amount of area to be covered if you wanted full coverage you would have benefited from going to a surgeon that is especially proficient in high norwoods and large graft numbers, namely Erdogan and Lorenzo for FUE and Hasson/Wong for FUT.

Imo it could look a bit better than it does for the graft number, but considering your procedure also included the hairline, you cannot expect a full head of hair in the crown and midscalp. There is definitely visible improvement across the entire area also. You likely would have required over double your graft number and two procedures for full coverage.

I don't think you are looking very hard then but if you really wanted me to I could PM them. However my point absolutely was not about criticism of these doctors or suggesting that people should be attacking any surgeon off the basis of a below-par result. It was specifically that a balanced, rational view should be taken that no surgeon provides a guaranteed homerun, and that there are too many bad results in general even with various top surgeons to assert that they occur only due to incompetence or mistakes by a doctor. There also seems to be a trend to criticise certain surgeons who use techs for extractions. No one complains about Canadian, Belgian or Spanish surgeons doing so, but they will readily criticise Turkish surgeons for the it without an explanation as to why that is logical. They will also make a large deal over below-par tech results, but if a doctor does the entire procedure themselves and still has a below-par result, they ignore it. It isn't hard to view things with universal standards. That lack of applying universal standards may not be "lying" in a direct sense, but it is indeed disingenuous and dishonest no matter how someone wants to frame it.

The guy was spam posting dishonest fearmongering on every Erdogan thread, making misleading and outright false statements trying to convince people and newcomers to avoid the clinic, posting negative comments on every Erdogan thread he could find, convincing people who refused to prove they had surgery with Erdogan or provide pics to complain and saying ludicrous things like that people only saw good results of Erdogan while researching him because of his marketing department somehow magically manipulating the entire internet. If he did this against a US clinic as a US citizen he'd probably get sued. The forum is supposed to be a helpful resource to newcomers and people researching for hair transplants. Spam posting false or misleading information in every thread possible on a daily basis is not helpful, nor is lying to people to people about realistic expectations. His result isn't acceptable but its one of few in over 50 very strong results online in the past 18 months and no surgeon has a perfect track record. I've seen more bad Cooley and Feriduni results lately than those from ASMED and NO ONE has complained about them, despite the fact they have significantly less patient posted results in general. It's unrealistic PERIOD to act as if a clinic is poor because it has a bad mediocre result. ASMED even offered a touchup to a guy here who has trashed them online for over 2 years while 95% of people in the thread where he posted his results said it appeared successful. There aren't many businesses offering $5000+ services to those who trash them with unrealistic complaints online for 2 years. You saw the Hasson thread with the poor result and obviously Dutchie springs to mind as another of his dud cases, does that mean it is acceptable for someone to spam post on everything HnW thread that they're only in it for the money and are performing bad work? That would be ridiculous, and it would be misleading against a clinic that does great work and wants the best for its patients. It also paints an unrealistic portrait of surgery that every result can be a home-run. It wouldn't be helpful for newcomers or help them make informed decisions. Unfortunately convincing people through fearmongering works, even when its dishonest. I personally agree with the majority of what you say and think you're a good poster, but you ought to use your head more than your feelings more on issues like this. Do you think a mudslinging free for all with people who CLEARLY don't understand or refuse to accept facts, making misleading, fear invoking claims on on every thread about a surgeon and PMing people to complain and stoke the fires further is helping anyone make informed decisions or make this forum better? Of course it doesn't. Yes the mods are more conservative in their assertions and approach than someone like yourself but they're also running business that is designed to support and bring a system of realistic accountability to surgeons, they are overall very lenient and fair in terms of what people can say. No patient, or doctor benefits from a system where a single poster can go off the rails making stupid and misleading comments in every place possible, drowning out any rational, intelligent discourse and cry "so you're saying we can't state our honest opinion?" You can do so even with harsh criticism without misleading people, spamming and being a troll.

Subtle but looks great imo, especially for 7.5 months.

If cost is an issue and travel also, I would strongly consider Erdogan in Turkey as you require extensive graft numbers and he isn't particularly far in distance. Hasson and Wong in Canada or Hattingen in Switzerland are other options I'd consider due to the large area needing to be covered but they are significantly more expensive. Imo you should not go with the current doctor. Its a gigantic risk and it is under no circumstances is it right going to a surgeon who isn't a dedicated full time hair transplant doctor. I go as far as to recommend you cancel ASAP and do more research. Probability is at best you will get a below average, unnatural result, at worst you will be butchered and have permanent damage to your donor and lost grafts. If you the amount you can afford is very small but you are still desperate for the procedure, I would absolutely look at Cinik and Acar in Turkey over this surgeon.

If OP feels they have nothing better to spend on and has the money for surgery, including enough money for a second surgery prior in case a touchup is required , then I don't see the issue. Keser is definitely a top option for this type of small refinement. Realistically that gap in the middle of the hairline would probably agitate a lot of people here too if they're being honest. It should be said though that no one is going to think you are balding OP, even if your hairline is imperfect.

Ha, well to be honest I suspect Diep has good enough aesthetic sense to avoid filling in the crown with a virtually bald frontal area. Most surgeons would suggest (and I think Diep would similarly) that a first procedure in a case like yours will be dedicated to the hairline, and a subsequent to the crown. Many Diep FUE cases over the 2500 graft mark so certainly possible he will be able to get more grafts. FUT certainly worth considering if the amount of grafts Diep thinks he can get is considerably above that with FUE. A thick crown with a frontal area as bald as yours would be immediately strange looking and give away an unnatural appearance to the average person, Ultimately in your case even if it takes a few procedures you likely will have the ability to cover both the crown and hairline.

I would strongly consider Erdogan for FUE as he's suited to 5000 graft megasessions and could comfortably cover both the crown and the frontal area in a single surgery. Alternatively I would request FUT from Diep and look to have the largest session he and your donor can provide. 2500 grafts will cover the frontal area and rebuild the hairline, but you're not going to get both crown and hairline coverage. I would expect that as you lose more hair in the future you are almost certainly going to want a second surgery down the track also (even if its 5-10 years) no matter what you do. The reality is that you're not far away from being slick bald and its going to take a significantly larger amount of grafts to cover your scalp with than 2500 grafts. Very few men have a thick crown with a completely bald frontal area, so focusing purely on the crown would not look natural, especially as you lose your forelock. I don't believe for a second that your hairloss is stabilised either. Very obvious norwood 5 pattern, people do not just stop losing hair indefinitely when they're thinning throughout this area. I suspect that the only reason you're noticing less hair fall because you've already lost 85% of it at this point. That shampoo you bought should be fine. The active ingredient is obviously the ketoconazole so beyond that it would just be preference in terms of how it makes your hair look.