JayLDD

Both among top-tier clinics, particularly Rahal one of the best hairline surgeons in the world still. Neither has a lot of patient posted results at the moment which is the particular drawback I'd personally consider.

For mid-large size procedures and happy to wait over a year for surgery, Freitas. For a mid-large sized procedure and a smaller waiting list, ASMED for FUE or HnW for FUT. For a small refinement or hairline procedure and ability to wait over a year, Konior or Keser. The reality is the level of results in US are not unquestionably higher, people just tend to ignore small imperfections or bad results from US surgeons that they wouldn't elsewhere and drill the idea that technicians performing surgery is bad. Unconvinced that any in the US are a noticeable level above say a Feriduni, Freitas or Keser in Europe. Although Canadian, especially for FUT and high graft numbers where the price drops, HnW isn't what I would consider expensive though tbh. Very reasonable value. I think they also discount on future procedures. No matter who you choose, I would go to a surgeon for whom you could afford more than one surgery with in the short term as very few get perfect results in a single pass and you're generally better off with more grafts and a second procedure than a surgeon who is already stretching the budget one a single run through.

Tends to depend on where you’re from whether that’s an acceptable hair style but personally I much prefer seeing this occasionally than everyone getting the same fade with the front spiked up. Also seems to suit your face. in my experience the longer it gets the more of an issue one has with bad and good hair days though. Hair transplants tend to work best in a middle ground but yours looks very good for this length.

I felt like most of my growth occurred between 4 and 6, peak change period being around 4.5-5.5. Which is fairly typical imo. Definitely including bare spots.

I would say reassess at around the 7 month market, typically at that point the vast majority has sprouted in 99% of cases and is at a reasonable length. Beyond that I'm very sceptical of drastic improvements but 5 months is still in the middle of the most productive period for the average person. Preop pics would certainly help.

Also I thought I'd just explicitly mention in regards to what I've mentioned before, none of the North American/European clinics I've mentioned in regards to success rates are intended to attack or suggest that they are overrated/not producing good work, but rather that when people see a poor result from a surgeon the best practise is to compile a list (even mentally) of every one of their results you can find across different percentages and look at percentage success rates (!) rather than a few individual cases, and which ones make the most noise. The reality is that in doing this you'll find is that no clinic has a perfect or even a near perfect track record. Every top-clinic has its share of below part, average, good and great results, if you look at the statistics (which I have) it is easy to see that ASMEDs yields are consistent with global standards of big name FUE clinics. Anyone who does their research will come to the same conclusion. Part of getting a hair transplant is accepting that the doctor you're going to no matter who it is has poor results, importantly I would consider what the clinics are prepared to do in the case of a patient not being satisfied, ASMED, Rahal and HnW are examples that do have examples of standing by their results post-op. Especially impressed recently with Hasson who readily who put it in writing for Legend and his case on here. When you're arguing against records of post-op care and statistics you're not helping yourself or anyone else.

Ok I’ll avoid using a certain persons name this time: Someone who spends ten grand on a surgical procedure in a Turkey without reading a single patient review or questions whether a doctor is doing all surgical work when it isn’t explicitly mentioned anywhere and is actually implied otherwise is probably not worth taking seriously on their opinions of hair transplants, or anything of great importance at all for that matter. A person who does this and on top of that doesn’t believe in statistics, ignores them or doesn’t apply them universally is probably an idiot/dishonest person, and should be listened to with extreme skepticism. A person who does this and doesn’t think it’s racist/sexist/ageist to keep mentioning “young Turkish girls” in a derogatory fashion, or that mentioning them as having low intelligence as racist is all the above plus a rather shitty person. Maybe someone should tell PFG FC that the the two hundredish mil they spent on Mbappe was all a waste, didn’t they realise he’s only 20 years old!? Add to that telling people on the other forum “you will be butchered” if you go to ASMED, yeah, it all does add up to a fairly shitty, dishonest, vindictive, and untrustworthy person that I wouldn’t recommend anyone take too seriously. Not mentioning names this time of course, because we are all being civil here, because of course telling people they will be “butchered” going to this clinic is oh so civil and reasoned.

People had already made up their minds.

Lindsey is more conservative than surgeons I prefer, but it’s laughable and very telling you mention him, because he has his share of poor results that are easily available to find despite not using techs for extraction. Of course none of these matter if it’s not tech based right? If you asked a member of the general public to look at both of their work, I absolutely guarantee you that in terms of cosmetic even Lindsey’s best results wouldn’t be at the level of the average Erdogan result to them. Again that is likely because Lindsey is much more conservative, but this is cosmetic surgery after all and appearance to others is virtually the entire point.

This is from a PM I got. Why even lie about this? You know you did it and are open with your criticisms, did you think I’d let you get away with you calling me a liar lmao. On my own hair, don’t see how anyone could call it anything other than a full head of hair at this point

Everything you wrote is dogshit, dishonest and thoughtless garbage though. The problem is people like myself, Gas and Lordbaldwin offer detailed and fact based analysis and retorts and others like yourself ignore it all, and write more idiotic, dishonest and vindictive posts that aren’t helpful or accurate. Look at Payam blatantly ignoring statistics or making numbers up. On top of the fact he rejects statistics, makes up numbers or says they don’t matter, ignores all bad results by top North American clinics, this is a guy that didn’t read a SINGLE patient review or ask any questions prior to spending ten grand on a procedure. He’s emphasized over and over he’s not of the intellectual capability to take seriously, problem is he screams like a child louder than anyone else and decides he’s always got to get the last word in, and ultimately if you scream loud enough even if it’s dishonest, childish and objectively false garbage people will listen and be influenced by it unfortunately. Read his initial posts, or those saying the procedure “ruined my life” on the other forum or that others who go there will be “botched”, he’s either dishonest or not of sound mind, my bets on both. I’ve had multiple Rahal patients message me this week about problems with growth and graft angles, there was a period within, 2016-2017 where there were more bad FUE results from them than I’ve seen in total from Erdogan. From both the major Canadian surgeons I’ve seen necrosis cases, of course no one talks about any of this or mentions their bad growth cases simply because they’re North American. Funny enough both of these clinics use techs too. The people that are pretending that ASMEDS yields are not as consistent as other top clinics are flat out ignoring statistics, haven’t done ANY research on hair transplants or are just plain dishonest. I am not bashing these clinics either, both are among about 10 globally that id ever consider going to, however they aren’t magically free from bad results, and they’re easy to find. When you’re saying that people responding to you should stop and only your opinion deserves to go without scrutiny, you’ve lost the the argument, however you have made a good case for yourself being a logically illiterate narcissistic piece of shit though. People who have personal experience with the clinic and have talked to them and questioned about their process know that Payam makes things up, this isn’t an agree to disagree situation, why does it make sense that he should constantly bump the thread and write dishonest or objectively ill considered and statistically false comments which will ultimately influence people, just because he wins the war of who last commented.

JT has over twenty years experience in the industry and has worked for top clinics (including those recommended by this site, Rahal and Hasson/Wong), networks with top-tier surgeons and regularly attends industry workshops etc. Also has high level production values in his vids and the majority of surgeons he supports for money are top-tier, most are represented by this website. Obviously its his work and he does it for money, but he does have high standards and is backed by experience, also as a repair patient who fixed himself up. He might be a shill by definition, but there are shills who want to shill for helping people get the best results (and making money doing so), and shills that don't care whether they're helpful or not.

I honestly think this guy should be banned, Lord Baldwin literally did as detailed of a statistical analysis as is possible in this industry on his results with a larger sample size than you will be able to find with any other doctor and there were a significant number of positive results over 80% were from good to great. Over 50 patient posted in the past 18 months. I've looked and there are more good Erdogan results than with any other surgeon, of course the number of patients he does aids this and he also has more patient posted results than any other surgeon routinely posted here too which will up this number. For HT0 to outright say there aren't "any" acceptable results isn't helpful to anyone, he knows its dishonest, and everyone else who has looked around knows it too. All it serves to do is concern noobies and put them off from the get-go when they start researching which is obviously the intention. 'I got butchered when they were doing 4 surgerys a day in 2016, 6+ surgerys is just ridiculous." Literally everyone that saw his resulted when he posted it said it either looked good apart from minor concerns with the hairline design which is easily fixable and they consult you on 3 times at the clinic. Again this helps no one, you flat out weren't butchered. You'd get deservedly sued if you said this about a surgeon in your home country. "I think what you finding with Asmed/Erdogan people are not believing the lies anymore and people shilling" Another good technique for misleading people is to pretend there is some kind of bandwagon effect here, it was literally you and Payam who created the hysteria, no one else. Your surgery was from over 2 years ago. I've seen more bad Rahal and Cooley results in the past 3 years than Erdogan and both have less than a fifth of the amount of patient posted results, there isn't a tenth of the same hysteria however. Other clinics have the occasional bad results but they're lucky enough not to a select number of patients who are in the top 0.1% of extreme complaints and littering them for two years on a public forum. Your result isn't even below par in regards to growth either. 'People disappear from the site because they are too embarrassed to post finished result," Who? I've seen very few examples of this for Erdogan surgeries. " Doctor doesn't even have time to speak to his patients about their concerns!!!!!" I'm saying this in an objective sense from a companies perspective, you're an absolute nutjob and would only waste his time. You're constantly dishonest, have publicly made dishonest and harmful claims about his business including PMing multiple people to tell them to avoid the clinic (that have told me so), you've also rejected going back to the clinic for a touchup and have spent over two years criticising the clinic despite them offering to help. What is a phone call of him listening to a dishonest asshole that tries to trash their business, who will never be happy and doesn't want to go back going to help you? I think in 99% of cases a clinic should do their absolute best to help patients that aren't satisfied even if the patients expectations are too high because its in their best interest as a business and morally its a good thing to do, but in your case you're just flat out dishonest and vindictive. You deserve to be ignored.

If worried about further losses and the hair is typically at that length, FUT with either HnW or Rahal definitely should be top considerations.

There have been many of them, especially around late 2016-2017 there were a lot of poor growth cases including some prominent posters with issues including one with a botched donor after under 2000 grafts. I had someone PM me about some density issues on one side and graft angles being off literally a few days ago (although the case was done many years ago). Another recent poster here is still only at 6 months roughly but says he sees very little growth. I think you're mixing up how loudly someone complains (Like Payam) vs how many problem cases there are. I know saying this sounds overly negative, but I find it incredible how some people are masters of finding problems with one surgeon but apparently forget how to do a basic Google search with others. Tbh I would also recommend HnW.

"Patients are still getting multi grafts in hairline in 2019" lol

"This means that the technician working on your procedure may have a week of experience (10,000 practice grafts), or he/she may have ten years of experience with hundreds of patients under their belt. Some technicians obviously have more experience than others. Which ones am I going to get on surgery day? Am I getting the most experienced technicians? The least experienced? Who knows. You hope for the best." Dr. Erdogan's exact words were: "Each team member is trained using the K-Head (a life-like training model) placing and extracting a minimum of 10,000 grafts before placing or extracting any graft on a live patient." You ignored the second part of the quote after this and left it out for whatever reason though. It doesn't imply a paying live patient, it specifically says they go onto placing 50 grafts and then increasing this number. It is also a fact that their techs all had over a year of experience at least prior to the two new rooms which they've said, so to imply for no particular reason it might be "weeks" is silly. Why would they risk reputation of putting techs on the job after "weeks" after spending literally millions on a new clinic and prior to that having techs with multiple years experience? Its a dumb thing to think, no one makes ludicrous assumptions like this about other European clinics like Lorenzo's for example which utilises a similar approach, its purely because its a Turkish clinic and you've had a tiny number of patients that scream very loudly that anyone is saying things this ridiculous. I think you'll get a very good result with Rahal and personally he's one of the few doctors I'd consider, but your reasons are reactionary and not logical. You hope for the best with any clinic, I could give easily find over 5 terrible Rahal FUE results from the past 3 years. Or that many bad Lupanzula results, and he utilises no technicains for extractions or implantations. Both of those are also indisputable. You don't magically get a good result because a doctors in a first world country or does the entire procedure.

Rahal is a top tier surgeon so if you can afford it you’re unlikely to doubt your decision, but for his FUE he does not perform the extractions, nor the implanatations. It’s the exact same process as Erdogan utilizes. So if you feel a doctor should be present for the entire procedure, your choice doesn’t actually fit the criteria. Lupanzula, Keser, Konior Nadimi, Baubac are some of the few that do. Rahal as a tech focused FUE surgeon emphasizes why it’s a poor criteria however as he still gets top tier results. Also nowhere did he ever say technicians did 10000 grafts on a simulator and were suddenly operating on paying patients, but rather moving to practicing on willing test subjects with 50 grafts which was gradually increased over time. Assuming they’ve only a weeks worth of practice when the 4 prior teams consisted of people all who had been there for Years ( including mine who were there 2 consecutive years) seems a gigantic stretch. And you could always ask them yourself anyway.

The problem here isn't just that the result shows virtually no growth or distinction between mutligrafts and singles in the hairline, but rather that the clinic thought it was an acceptable representation of what is achievable as they were the ones that posted it, because its not even close. It is ultimately misleading to potential and current patients, as well as being poor marketing in general. To pretend that 2000 grafts here grew is plainly dishonest, you can also easily see that there are virtually as many doubles as singles in the hairline: Its not a great deal different in density or approach than old style hair plugs. Aside from the result, the approach is clearly not even in the same universe as the average FUE result of many top FUE surgeons here, Feriduni, Cooley, Erdogan, Hasson/Wong, Rahal etc. Certainly it can be deemed distasteful to criticise a result as it is attached to a person, but presumably if this has been posted here by the clinic they have given permission. More importantly, the forum isn't for the sake of one persons feelings (who quite frankly is better off knowing the truth), but rather future potential patients. If you told a potential patient this is what was an acceptable expected result in terms of cosmetic improvement, virtually no one would have hair transplants. Everyone is aware of the problems of the ARTAS, a standardised approach that still has countless examples (the majority I see on here) that are below par, overly large punch sizes, serious issues with donor depletion and scarring, lack of natural appearing irregularity in extraction area etc. I can virtually guarantee that even if you offered to PAY the admins or any top posters here $5000 to have a 1500+ graft procedure with the ARTAS they wouldn't do it. The reality is that results like this are give a bad rep to other surgeons on the network also. For exclusivity and ideal of state of the art hair transplantation to be maintained in the forums recommendations, it should live up to that. I guarantee many potential doctors that might want to be represented here would be put off by a result like this by a recommended surgeon, it goes well beyond just a poor yield.

I suspect the mods will chastise you for saying this, but you're 100% right this is a plainly bad result. Probably less than a few hundred grafts of growth, and there doesn't seem to be distinction between multis and singles in the hairline either. Hard to think a clinic deserves recommendation when they think this is worth showcasing.

Ok lets talk about being an adult. Payam, you're the guy that on one of the other major hairloss forums goes on every Erdogan thread *literally* saying things such as that they "will be butchered" (direct quote) if they go to Erdogan (who has literally hundreds of positive patient reviews online, more than any other surgeon I've seen in the past 5 years and is the vice-president of the World FUE organisation with constant innovation in the area). You're also PMing people along with HT012 (who also made fake accounts) telling people how bad he is. You also say he ruined your life the procedure makes you miserable. You're also the guy that spent ten thousand dollars on a procedure with a clinic with hundreds of reviews available online on sites like this, and didn't spend FIVE MINUTES reading one that said techs did the extractions. Almost every review of ASMED here mentions it and this fact is a quick Google search away, does an adult book a ten thousand dollar surgical procedure without reading a SINGLE patient review? And top of that you're the guy that lies and make misleading comments about the clinics correspondence which clearly doesn't mention Erdogan doing the extractions anywhere and explicitly mentions a surgical team doing parts of the surgery. You outright were suggesting in the first 2 months and even first few days that your procedure was probably a failure. You said you were at 6 months when you were barely past 5 for no particular reason other than probably cause a bigger stink. After that, you organise consults with surgeons with multiple year waiting lists (so you can complain for longer rather than actually fixing your problem) and whine and complain about your correspondence with the clinic. Complain about your correspondence with them after posting on another forum that anyone else who goes there will be "butchered" and that the procedure "ruined my life". Any other clinic in the world would either have blocked your number or be taking legal action. Supposedly they ruined your life and yet you do nothing to fix the problem but whine on the forum. Is this the adult option? Does an adult whine on a forum and book consults for surgeons with 4 year waiting lists about an easily fixable issue that they supposedly have the money to fix rather than actually addressing it? No name calling, just reality Payam. "I mean not a single one of the other 3 guys who did surgery the same day as me are happy ranging from density issues to unnatural looking hairlines, this is what happens when you have the FUE factory approach Asmed uses." If this is true Payam, why are results of 90% of the surgeries at ASMED that are posted by patients upfront from day one ranging from acceptable to very good? (and someone did a statistical analysis here of this too) When I first researched clinics I roughly tallied success rates and continue to note that which I see among top surgeons, ASMED still are among the highest. You can't compare results of a doctor like Nadimi with literally less than 5 FUE results against ASMED with hundreds and hundreds; but again that goes to the above points, most certainly an adult wouldn't do this, but maybe someone in their 30s that hasn't yet reached adulthood or learnt the basics of statistics might do so. " despite the fact that Asmed uses far more grafts than any other surgeon in the world" That is outright false, another one of your subtlely dishonest points that slips through for people who don't know better, I've seen you comparing hairline cases where Erdogan does a full temple point reconstruction to the graft numbers of another surgeon only in the hairline and without adding density to thinning areas behind the hairline either. Its not that you're too braindead to know or see this Payam, you're just being dishonest and hoping that people who don't know any better or noobies will think you're right and vindicate your little crusade. "how many patients speak about needing a touch up due to multigrafts in the hairline" For the record, the only person who had this as a primary concern was this guy, and this is what his hairline looked like: I guarantee you if any other surgeon produced this result, or you saw this on the street without knowing it was a hair transplant, NO ONE would think it looked unnatural or that it had an issue with multigrafts, PERIOD. It isn't a serious issue in your case either, people aren't shoving their eye socket into your hairline Payam, no one in the real world is looking at it with an extreme closeup in harsh lighting except for you when you take a photo to badmouth the clinic. Before I was harsh but gave you the benefit of the doubt that maybe you weren't deliberately trying to come off so childishly, after seeing your posts on the other forum telling everyone you could about being butchered and that they'd be butchered if they went to the clinic ((again you explicitly used this term multiple times) its obvious you're just a vindictive, childish person.

lmfao

I think you already know the growth was bad, and I think the only reason you’re asking the questions is so you can complain about the answers on here. People take more notice dependent on tone, and I do think it’s obvious that you’re the type to just ignore things that are said more casually. Youre better off consulting clinics that are to your liking and fixing the problem ASAP than complaining for over two years about an easily fixable problem like HT012 did. The questions you’re asking are below your intelligence level and are outright dumb, you’re clearly smart enough to know the yield was poor and can see it in the preops. It’s obvious the only reason you’re asking and continuing correspondence is so you can complain about the response here. Maybe you’re happy asking dumb questions when you’ve already made up your mind about the clinic and your result, but I strongly doubt it and think you’d be a million times happier if you booked with a clinic more suited to your liking like Koniors with Nadimi and fixing the problem asap. Honestly your result isn’t even that bad, the density is poor but easily fixable. You constantly sound like you’re freaking out and want help, being helpful isn’t patting you on the head and saying “who’s a good boy” like some people here want to, it’s telling you that complaining doesn’t fix a poor yield, but a touch up with a clinic that takes a more tailored and slower approach like Konior/nadimi, Keser, lupanzula, Baubac etc will help. You should consult clinics like these and make a booking rather than dwelling on a problem that is very, very small if you don’t have financial issues with more work.

In terms of these numbers you're giving now, from you on your first post: Why did you say these numbers here then? It's not like you want to go back to the clinic again anyway, no idea why you still bother to correspond (other than to bump this thread so people can see your complaints of course) Not sure why you're more content on moaning on the forum when you supposedly have the money for a surgeon you actually want that runs their clinic the way you're comfortable with, you're FORCING yourself to be miserable and stressed at the moment, just as you did from the beginning as is obvious from reading your initial posts. No wonder you're consulting with Couto, with his waiting list he'll give you another 4 years to whine about your surgery rather than actually fixing what is unlikely to be a complicated fix, and you absolutely have the donor for. Seems to be your preference.

OP just so you and others can look back on this thread in 6 months and see who was right all along I strongly suspect you will have no cosmetically noticeable improvement by the 12 month mark. Looking at your pic I don't believe for one second Keller actually did 4000 grafts either. Saying this just so you can look back and acknowledge that my recommendations of surgeons and assertions on your situation have been 100% right all along so in future you're more likely to trust me or trust other people here rather than ignoring every last shred of advice you're given.