JayLDD

I stand by my initial point I wrote here that imo you would have been better suited to a large megassession to obtain full crown and midscalp coverage along with the hairline work, but undeniably the result is very good. Obviously yielded very well and looks as natural as can be, huge cosmetic improvement over starting point.

The above chart showing month on month improvement is great. Very impressed with the temple work too.

The International forum for the Hattingen cases, also last I heard Lorenzo was only 6 monthsish, but some have said he was going on extended break at some point.

Agree from what I've seen on Devroye but at least on this forum there aren't a huge number of results, been consistently impressed by Hattingen clinic also, especially the giant FUT megassessions over the 5000 graft mark I see from them quite regularly that give full coverage in one hit. Their scars appear as good as any on top of that. Still find the most appealing crown results tend to be from Lorenzo, most others tend to leave it still looking somewhat thin and for higher graft numbers. Dr. Wong is another in that top-level category but obviously not in Europe.

Lorenzo or Couto (may as well not bring up with that waiting list though) without a doubt. Lorenzo has a substantial portfolio of them to look at too. There's definitely a difference in preference for crown/vs hairline work despite a general overlap.

You're definitely a typical and ideal Erdogan megasession patient imo. I doubt he will turn you down but for full coverage he is likely to suggest a full 5000-5500 graft which is as high as he goes in a single session. Regarding the reference to another patient on here where the forelock didn't blend, quite frankly that is a yield or density issue (although the patient still had a few months of potential improvement left). This is not a legitimate issue in general.

Didn't realise, in that case its definitely a positive result. Surprised they put up the 4 month.

Anyone who has had a transplant knows its hard to get your mind of it especially around the 3-4 month mark. Complain about me all you like, you were the one who called someones comment stupid and followed it up with the dumbest comment in the whole thread.

Except there are still less than 20 FUE results of Konior online. Probably about 15ish. That's 15 FUE results since he started performing it available to see online. Who cares if it's "Ever", there are other surgeons that have close to 50-80 patient posted results a year, 15 in over 5 years is meaningless. The only stupid comment is yours. That's not knocking Konior because almost every result I have seen of his is great, but you can't compare a Lorenzo or Erdogan with above 50 patient posted results a year to only Konior who has 15 in five years. https://www.gabelcenter.com/galleries/patient-1721/ Also this result which was performed by both Konior and Gabel is by no means top tier, it's not a failure but the angles don't appear natural and contrast with the native hair, and density is clearly very poor. There's no secret sauce to avoid bad results.

There are multiple of his results on each page, just google international hairloss forum, then go into the patient testimonials section. You don't need to create an account.

No idea what you're looking at then, it's got at least 40 Erdogan posts going back to August 12 months ago, most of them complete results from the past 2 years.

You should look on the International hairloss forum too for Erdogan results. More than on this website and vast majority very strong lately. Not sure why but there seems to be a lot of dishonesty coming from some people here and false claims like that he isn't doing incisions or changed his tech teams, it's just false, and I was there less than 4 months ago and had been 12 months before that. Cases with poor growth at the 12 month mark are worth considering but I am seeing very little of that, mainly people complaining pre six months and of hairline design that they have a say in and are consulted on at multiple occasions.

If you don't take data and studies presented by top surgeons such as Erdogan or Shapiro in organisations which include members such as Rahal, Cooley, Lorenzo and Feriduni for example then there is nothing more to say to you, you're willfully ignorant and I feel sorry for you because I'm sure it bleeds into other areas of your life too. There isn't an absence of research, you are refusing to look at it. You blindly accepting a single study from a decade ago that doesn't mention controlled variables and was done with less than 100 hours FUE experience is faith, doing actual research and looking at all available data on the subject in 2018 is not. End of argument.

The three forces argument itself is psuedo-scientific nonsense also drawn from no data or testing. I can grab someones arm and put a variety of forces on it, that doesn't in any sense mean it is going to be damaged just because force is applied. There would need to be a test on different types of forces application on graft and resulting yield and effect on the hair itself. Erdogan did something similar presented at the World FUE Institute. And again, anyone who has done their research on FUE would know it is largely factional among the World FUE institute, FUE Europe and American groups such as the ISHRS. These regularly present data among colleagues and there are plenty of studies and tests that are visible on Youtube relating to these, for example an afforementioned study by Erdogan on effect of a variety of scenarios on yield (which again just shows a lack of research because Bismark just blindly pretends they don't exist) Suggesting that there are only a few studies just reflects a lack of understanding where the data is being recorded and presented. It is within these institutions between surgeons of the same group, there is no incentive to release through mainstream journals these reports as they have reason to support their own internal community. It's just incredibly dishonest and ignorant to look past this and the public scientific data, presented studies and group discussions they have put out because they aren't in "peer reviewed journals". On top of that we have extensive number of patient posted results from a number of surgeons to make judgements with. Do a basic Google search on this and you'll find a lot more information than a trashy, primary school level study by Beehner who had done less than a tenth of the training of one of Lorenzo's techs on FUE and doesn't know what controlled variables are or how to follow the scientific method. Directing this at Bismarck mainly. And Bismarck, I do not take anything personally in any case where I am annoyed it is fully at when I see facts being wilfully shredded, a lack of research, an expressed intellectual persona without proper research, understanding of peer review actually is, how to read a scientific study, or how the scientific method works. By the way I'll say again that I mainly disagree with your methodology in analysis, not your conclusions which we seem to differ only slightly on. Also aside point, I've seen a LOT of bad Feriduni results, and on Konior there was a case he did in conjunction with Gabel presented on the Gabel website that I wouldn't call a failure but was clearly below par. Very surprised Bismarck that you would place Doganay in any list of top FUE surgeons, he certainly has talent and has an extensive portfolio of phenomenal results, but there isn't a certain at that level of infamy in the world with as many awful results. Would almost go as far as to suggest its close to a majority. I would place Freitas, Couto, Baubac and Keser at the absolute for small to mid sized FUE sessions, and Lorenzo and Erdogan (both being at a similar level imo) for mid to larger sessions but their hairline work not quite at the same level. Konior is likely at that level in terms of surgeons for smaller sessions but there isn't enough of his work to say conclusively imo. Below this I would put the Belgians and HnW at a similar level.

Sounds like you're coming around a bit OP but just on a few points to address, JJsrader said there are 20 others with equal loss who have been recommended transplants on this website, I totally disagree. Especially when looking at the front on photo which appears to show zero hairloss or forehead issues, there are a very small select number of patients that went more aggressive than this and they are all people who started off with heavier loss than OP so the risk/reward paradigm was skewed in the other direction. Also agree that it isn't related to the doctor, I've seen poor growth/unnatural results with every surgeon that has more than 15 results online so I wouldn't change my mind based on that.

I know you haven't had one before, my point was that your current situation is better than what a single procedure can achieve in the sense that you already have very strong density and on appearance what looks like you don't suffer from androgenetic alopecia. You won't match native density with a single procedure no matter the surgeon. It's also correct the temple areas are naturally thinner and often have the appearance of recession despite the person not having male pattern baldness. I would look at Keser in Turkey, he tends to pack at a higher density, also doing only 500 grafts per day to maximise yield. But personally I think the risk/reward in your situation is not good. There are plenty others you'll find here who go to top surgeons from across the globe and end up with poor results. Not worth that risk when your current situation is still so strong imo.

+1 I wouldn't recommend it. Not with any surgeon. Opening a can of worms for no reason at this point, your current situation would be considered aggressive and abnormally perfect density if it was a transplant (not achievable in a single pass imo) , and on top of that you already wouldn't appear to have any hairloss to anyone including those who are Norwood spotters. If it gets worse consider it but there are better ways to drop ten grand in the meantime.

I'd consult Hasson and Wong, Hattingen clinic (Both FUT and outside Turkey) and also Erdogan ( FUE) who was already mentioned. To be honest though OP you have a well below average donor with a possible future at the NW7 level along with thinning at the bottom also. I wouldn't do FUE and even FUT probably isn't going to get you so far, likely just a conservative hairline without crown coverage or full midscalp coverage.

One of the best female hairline results I have seen. Took 20 years off on top of that.

Surgeons tend to understate the length of redness. I'm quite pale which likely made it worse but the redness from my first procedure took at least 6 months to not be blatantly noticeable, and even at 12 months there were traces of it but it was mostly gone. I would go as far as to say virtually no one is looking perfectly normal with no redness in 7 weeks, aside from a select few with skin tone that makes it less of an issue. Your situation currently looks very typical. I suspect that as was my experience your transplanted hair will begin to grow and cover the redness before the redness itself is completely gone.

To be honest if you're high norwood and are looking for full coverage you should opt for a surgeon that can provide it. In saying that there are plenty of men who have reasonable hairlines and only suffer from crown and midscalp loss so it is by no means an unnatural look, although your surgeon is unlikely to do some ultra aggressive, dense pack frontal band at the juvenile hair level or even a standard dense mature hairline otherwise it might look off.

I don't think you have sinister motives, but unfortunately if a noob researching hair transplants came across your posts I'm sure I would be genuinely worried by a lot of what you say and it would potentially influence people to avoid the clinic, despite a lot of your criticisms ranging from misleading to blatantly inaccurate. That isn't right. I wouldn't have posted here again but only did so when I saw everyone was accepting the 6 month figure that was clearly misleading. Hair transplants aren't some war between careless surgeons and helpless patients like you seem to think, the clinic you went to is consistent as any that performs FUE and wanted you to have a good result, just as you would have wanted. Do them and yourself a favour and stop turning it into one.

It's in the title of the thread, 13th of March.

Definitely a rare case where your your facial structure and temple points genuinely let you pull off a great look with a NW3, especially with the salt and pepper and beard. Agree with others that you should probably hold off, but in particular because you're already dealing with a good situation it's best to stick of clinics like ASMED, HLC, Kaan or Keser's in Turkey imo that are giving you the highest probability of success and not going to make things worse.

There are undoubtedly a number of patients (I'd guess 3-5% for most) that go to top surgeons and yield poor results, ultimately no one is going to know why your case didn't turn out ideally. Personally I wouldn't recommend going back to the same surgeon if you had an initial poor procedure as you might be better served by a surgeon using separate procedures and techniques, but if there was financial incentive to do so it might still be the best option. In the circumstances he ought to offer a free touch up or a partial refund at the least however. I would definitely reveal who he was and make a fuss if he didn't or made you pay for a touch-up which imo is unethical for any surgeon who has a patient with poor results (although its obvious from the photos who the surgeon was to be honest). Unfortunately while you say you don't want another hair transplant, if you're very insecure about it which it seems you are (and for good reason) that is your only option to fix the situation.