WARNING, if considering Dr Hakan Doganay, read this first

[Melvin- Admin]

Paleo, please please stop shaving the grafts, I know you think it looks better than letting them grow, but trust me it doesn't, however this pans out, I wish you the best, I think there is difinitely a correlation between bills article and this thread whether he agrees or not. However, I do think it's important to stay respectful, at the end of the day, bill did not force you to get the procedure with Dr. D, I know you're frustrated and angry at your situation, but its best not to dwell on misfortune best to dwell on a solution, you're moving in the right direction, as for Dr. D being recommended, if he stays I would say take any recommendation on this site with a grain of salt, do your own research before blindly following a sites recommendation, these type of threads provide the most insight to other members and the community as a whole.

[mav23100gunther]

Hello FUE2014

 

Thanks for asking question in good way. As an AHD Clinic we had been changed many things I can inform you about some of them First one was divide operation in to 2 days who needs around 3000 grafts Second one all staff had been trained by Dr. Hakan DOGANAY so since he became busy he could not do 2 operation in a day therefore He decided to trained his assistance to help him.. ( One of the biggest disadvantage is with Choi Pen you can't perform many case in one day). We have very good result in 2015 getting better however Since Paleo showed up with his imaginary experience about clinic our reliability has been started to went down... By the way no need mention about trolls who just appear in 3 months ( except some ) that they made this thread worse and worse all we knew.

 

Personally I have huge consideration about paleo whatever his result and decision given by Bill will not make him happy I knew He will try his best to fret the Doctor.

 

Sorry I don't have much time to sit and read pointless discussions here.

 

Well we had very big changed which will make people feel more confident again with Doctor hopefully Bill will inform all of you with his final decision very soon.

 

Thanks

 

I have a very simple question - is Doganay going to do 100% of the implantation using the Choi pen moving forward or not?

[Stig]

 

... By the way no need mention about trolls who just appear in 3 months ( except some ) that they made this thread worse and worse all we knew.

 

 

Thanks

 

Also no need mention about trolls who just appear out of nowhere just to post on this thread that they had surgery with Doganay and had absolutely outstanding results. Also, lets no need mention about trolls praising Doganay who just happened to live in the same house as a paid rep and then just happened to disappear at the same time when they got caught.

[Cenkoa01]

I have a very simple question - is Doganay going to do 100% of the implantation using the Choi pen moving forward or not?

 

Hi Mav23

 

Thanks for asking a question but It is better let to Bill answer this question with his final decision.

 

Thanks

[Bill - Seemiller]

Cenkoa,

 

Why in the world would you suggest that I should answer the question as directed to Dr. Doganay or the clinic? In fact, I've been waiting for somebody from the clinic to respond to my last email to which I had to write again because nobody has gotten back to me. I have asked multiple times what role the doctor was going to play in the procedure moving forward. I had also suggested that he extract 100% of the follicular units (at least a large percentage) and make all of the reshipping incisions. I have not gotten a response to this and I find this rather frustrating. The only message I did get was a generic message saying that the doctor would be "more involved" in the procedure without any specifics. I believe it was said that he would assist more with placing the grass into recipient incisions however, this is a job that technicians typically do. Extractions and making incisions is primarily the doctors job, at least in most clinics.

 

Thus, since I was never emailed in private but the response and you are being asked publicly, please respond on behalf of the clinic what role the doctor is going to play in the procedure moving forward. As I said, it would be far better if he extracted the graft and made the incisions. If he is not going to do this, who is and why is he not going to do this?

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

[Stig]

Cenkoa,

 

Why in the world would you suggest that I should answer the question as directed to Dr. Doganay or the clinic? In fact, I've been waiting for somebody from the clinic to respond to my last email to which I had to write again because nobody has gotten back to me. I have asked multiple times what role the doctor was going to play in the procedure moving forward. I had also suggested that he extract 100% of the follicular units (at least a large percentage) and make all of the reshipping incisions. I have not gotten a response to this and I find this rather frustrating. The only message I did get was a generic message saying that the doctor would be "more involved" in the procedure without any specifics. I believe it was said that he would assist more with placing the grass into recipient incisions however, this is a job that technicians typically do. Extractions and making incisions is primarily the doctors job, at least in most clinics.

 

Thus, since I was never emailed in private but the response and you are being asked publicly, please respond on behalf of the clinic what role the doctor is going to play in the procedure moving forward. As I said, it would be far better if he extracted the graft and made the incisions. If he is not going to do this, who is and why is he not going to do this?

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

 

Bill, this is your forum and you can do what you want, but if you are getting such a vague response from the clinic to a simple question combined with their evasiveness, then I just don't understand why you are giving them so much leeway. I think its pretty obvious that this clinic is going to try skirt the line here and try get away with as much as possible in terms of the role Doganay has to play in the procedure. Not being able to give a straight answer to Mav's question is absolutely ridiculous and says it all. It is clear to me that this clinic is not giving consideration to what works best for the patient, and is just trying to test the waters with you in terms of what they can get away with to remain on your recommended list. This feels like one of those abusive relationships where the abused party won't leave the abuser because she/he wants to believe so badly that the abuser will change. I think its time to part ways Bill....

 

This clinic sold their soul when the doctor stopped performing 100% of the incisions himself, and would have to sacrifice profitability to go back to this practice - they won't do it.

[chris39]

The questions directed towards the clinic have been simple and to the point . The responses from the clinic have been insultingly vague in my opinion .

 

It speaks volumes as to what is really going on here .

[chris39]

This clinic sold their soul when the doctor stopped performing 100% of the incisions himself, and would have to sacrifice profitability to go back to this practice - they won't do it.

 

AHD and Asmed charge a premium for their services based on their results . If the work ( or a large proportion ) is being done by tech's , then people simply won't pay the premium . especially in light of the decline in HT quality being reported by several patients .

 

Not a problem restricted to Turkey of course , but an issue that will gain more coverage over the coming years .

[esrec]

Bill, this is your forum and you can do what you want, but if you are getting such a vague response from the clinic to a simple question combined with their evasiveness, then I just don't understand why you are giving them so much leeway. I think its pretty obvious that this clinic is going to try skirt the line here and try get away with as much as possible in terms of the role Doganay has to play in the procedure. Not being able to give a straight answer to Mav's question is absolutely ridiculous and says it all. It is clear to me that this clinic is not giving consideration to what works best for the patient, and is just trying to test the waters with you in terms of what they can get away with to remain on your recommended list. This feels like one of those abusive relationships where the abused party won't leave the abuser because she/he wants to believe so badly that the abuser will change. I think its time to part ways Bill....

 

This clinic sold their soul when the doctor stopped performing 100% of the incisions himself, and would have to sacrifice profitability to go back to this practice - they won't do it.

 

AMEN. Its time to cut the cord.

[Melvin- Admin]

The clinic is unbelievable, you ask a straightforward question and you get "ask bill" what on earth does bill have to do with how their practice is ran? That would be like me asking bill if Dr. Doganay will remain a recommended physician and he responds with "ask Dr. Doganay" I see bill is doing everything he can to help this clinic he's really trying, but this clinic is not making it easy for him, I don't see things getting better for this clinic, I think it would be beneficial to them if they were removed from the recommended list and this thread died, as long as this thread is alive, the clinic is doomed.

[chris39]

I don't see things getting better for this clinic, I think it would be beneficial to them if they were removed from the recommended list and this thread died, as long as this thread is alive, the clinic is doomed.

 

All the more reason the thread doesn't die , irrespective of whether they're removed from the recommended list.

[Cenkoa01]

Cenkoa,

 

Why in the world would you suggest that I should answer the question as directed to Dr. Doganay or the clinic? In fact, I've been waiting for somebody from the clinic to respond to my last email to which I had to write again because nobody has gotten back to me. I have asked multiple times what role the doctor was going to play in the procedure moving forward. I had also suggested that he extract 100% of the follicular units (at least a large percentage) and make all of the reshipping incisions. I have not gotten a response to this and I find this rather frustrating. The only message I did get was a generic message saying that the doctor would be "more involved" in the procedure without any specifics. I believe it was said that he would assist more with placing the grass into recipient incisions however, this is a job that technicians typically do. Extractions and making incisions is primarily the doctors job, at least in most clinics.

 

Thus, since I was never emailed in private but the response and you are being asked publicly, please respond on behalf of the clinic what role the doctor is going to play in the procedure moving forward. As I said, it would be far better if he extracted the graft and made the incisions. If he is not going to do this, who is and why is he not going to do this?

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

 

 

Hey Bill

 

As an AHD Clinic team yesterday we had meeting so outcome of the meeting was Dr. Hakan DOGANAY will perform 100 percent implantation please note that we use Choi İmplanter Pen technique therefore Doctor performs incisions and placing grafts in same time...

 

You will get more information via E-mail very soon.

 

I would have been let you inform the community once you received the respond anyway.

 

 

Thanks

[jonnyalex]

I hope this the owner of this forum does the right think here and I also hope your situation improves in the near future. You don't seem to have deserved being called a bully but perhaps I have missed something.

[FUE2014]

Hey Bill

 

As an AHD Clinic team yesterday we had meeting so outcome of the meeting was Dr. Hakan DOGANAY will perform 100 percent implantation please note that we use Choi İmplanter Pen technique therefore Doctor performs incisions and placing grafts in same time...

 

You will get more information via E-mail very soon.

 

I would have been let you inform the community once you received the respond anyway.

 

 

Thanks

 

This is a positive response. The incision to me seems the most important part of the process and a condition of HRN membership should be that the doc performs 100% of incisions, as all other docs recommended here do. It's a shame AHD moved away from a process that used to deliver good results, for the sake of trying to make more money.

 

This is somewhat controversial, and a lot will disagree, but I would encourage Dr Doganay to try and learn a bit of English, even some basics. I assume the majority of AHD's patients speak English to some degree, and not being able to communicate with the doc and vice versa is a big impediment as key messages can get lost when having to rely on an interpreter who may not have 100% command of the English language themselves. I certainly wouldn't go to a doctor who I could not converse with first hand.

[esrec]

Hey Bill

 

As an AHD Clinic team yesterday we had meeting so outcome of the meeting was Dr. Hakan DOGANAY will perform 100 percent implantation please note that we use Choi İmplanter Pen technique therefore Doctor performs incisions and placing grafts in same time...

 

You will get more information via E-mail very soon.

 

I would have been let you inform the community once you received the respond anyway.

 

 

Thanks

 

Love it when a doctor has a meeting to decide if he's actually going to behave like one.

 

"Ok team, I thought about this long and hard... and I've decided, with much reservation, that I will start doing my job. It's gonna be a lot of work, but I'll do it, I guess".

 

This just gets better and better......What a joke.

[Stig]

Hey Bill

 

As an AHD Clinic team yesterday we had meeting so outcome of the meeting was Dr. Hakan DOGANAY will perform 100 percent implantation please note that we use Choi İmplanter Pen technique therefore Doctor performs incisions and placing grafts in same time...

 

You will get more information via E-mail very soon.

 

I would have been let you inform the community once you received the respond anyway.

 

 

Thanks

 

Its a good start - took a good number of weeks for the Doctor to agree to do what he should have been doing all along. Now what about the extractions? Can we assume that that process will continue to be performed 100% by the technicians? I still think Bill should remove Doganany as a recommended surgeon and put the burden on Doganay to produce consistently high quality results from now onwards and go through the vetting process again to get back on the recommended list again. The doctor ever deciding to stop performing 100% of the incisions himself should be enough to get him kicked off any recommended list. Just my view.

[Wwiizzkkiidd24]

my opinion on this matter is that the doc in question should at least serve some sort of punishment it's not ethical at all what's happened to the many patience that underwent a ht with this doctor including the original poster.the most important process in this case is extraction of grafts amd placement with the choi pen and he isn't doing that. I'm sorry but I think he's ship has sailed well off into the storm.

[Stig]

my opinion on this matter is that the doc in question should at least serve some sort of punishment it's not ethical at all what's happened to the many patience that underwent a ht with this doctor including the original poster.the most important process in this case is extraction of grafts amd placement with the choi pen and he isn't doing that. I'm sorry but I think he's ship has sailed well off into the storm.

 

I think it would be harsh to ding surgeons for not performing the extractions themselves when the majority of the top rated FUE surgeons such as Lorenzo, Erdogan and I think Rahal use Techs for that. I do think that in order to remain on this recommended list there should be way more visibility into the Techs who perform the extractions and make them get vetted in some way. Its a tough exercise to do, but if it doesn't get done and MONITORED on a regular basis, then I think it becomes the wild west very quickly. This recommended listing can get seriously undermined when a top surgeon changes to an unqualified technician. The article Bill referenced to earlier and got harassed for by Paleo touched on this. Personally, I think its an absolute joke that top surgeons are allowed to delegate that type of task to a non-surgeon, but I can appreciate the fact that a great technician may be better at the extractions than the doctor. How do you fix it, you send the doctors back to medical school and train them.

[Wwiizzkkiidd24]

I'm not sure I'll agree with you on the techs being better then the actual doctor otherwise they would be recommended and not the doctor. but I do agree with you on the that there should be more transparency about the recommended list it would serve everyone a purpose because then you know what your getting. it definitely needs working on. sorry mods haha

[Stig]

I'm not sure I'll agree with you on the techs being better then the actual doctor otherwise they would be recommended and not the doctor.

 

Well, lets take Hasson and Wong as an example. They are outstanding surgeons, and have only recently started offering FUE. My understanding is that they delegate the extraction process to a qualified well trained tech because they both lack the experience. I'm pretty sure that the top tech from Erdogan's clinic and Mike from Rahal are way better at present than Dr Hasson and Dr Wong at extracting grafts because of their hours and hours of experience. Granted if they were all starting from scratch, then I would expect Dr Hasson to master the technique way quicker than the tech (otherwise you have a problem). That's really the big issue here, not all the surgeons are not putting in the time to master the technique themselves.

[Melvin- Admin]

You can't compare Hasson and Wong to FUE surgeons like Lorenzo, feriduni and erdogan, these physicians train their techs, so you tell me who would rather have extracting the grafts the teacher or the student? I think erdogans method is best, sharing the extraction responsibility with his seasoned tech celik. There are very few physicians left that do any extractions, I would warrant caution going to any FUE physician that leaves the extraction completely up to technicians, this includes Lorenzo, when you look back at his YouTube channel most of those results were by his hands, now that things have changed, I doubt he'll get the same results, if you're going to a physician to get FUE and their tech is better at doing the extractions you're going to the wrong surgeon period. Dr. Umar still does the extractions, Dr. Diep claims to do the extractions himself.

[wibbles180]

Can I suggest you take a look at dr lorenzos Vimeo channel , it has all his latest work and he is constantly uploading new videos with full comb throughs wet and dry etc etc .... Also his descriptions are excellent and give you a feel for the patients overall situation .

 

I am currently torn between 3 surgeons

 

1. Lorenzo

2. Erdogan

3. Dermisroy (more research required)

 

Has anyone ever seen sub par results by these 3, if so advice would be greatly relieved !

[Wwiizzkkiidd24]

Yeah i agree with HTsoon you can't really compare hasson and wong to the likes of the top surgeons I think there FUT merchants and only just started fue. I myself self wouldn't want a tech extracting my grafts or implanting them with a pen in this case.I'd want the doc to do that because that a very important process to me anyway. I think you could count on one hand maybe where the doc does 100% of the process dr bahtti is one well I know he does the most important processes I think de reys is another one but I'm sure there's more we don't know about yet. but going back to this case usually the techs implant the grafts after the doc has done the slits but in the posters case it's done by choi pen so it's imperative that the doc does that process and not techs.

[delancey]

Cenkoa,

 

Why in the world would you suggest that I should answer the question as directed to Dr. Doganay or the clinic? In fact, I've been waiting for somebody from the clinic to respond to my last email to which I had to write again because nobody has gotten back to me. I have asked multiple times what role the doctor was going to play in the procedure moving forward. I had also suggested that he extract 100% of the follicular units (at least a large percentage) and make all of the reshipping incisions. I have not gotten a response to this and I find this rather frustrating. The only message I did get was a generic message saying that the doctor would be "more involved" in the procedure without any specifics. I believe it was said that he would assist more with placing the grass into recipient incisions however, this is a job that technicians typically do. Extractions and making incisions is primarily the doctors job, at least in most clinics.

 

Thus, since I was never emailed in private but the response and you are being asked publicly, please respond on behalf of the clinic what role the doctor is going to play in the procedure moving forward. As I said, it would be far better if he extracted the graft and made the incisions. If he is not going to do this, who is and why is he not going to do this?

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

 

It hardly inspires confidence that Dr. Doganay's clinic doesn't take the time to respond to you unless you send out a reminder. I can only imagine the aftercare frustration that many patients may experience with this clinic. Aftercare communication is critical, especially if a complication occurs.

[Petchski]

You can't compare Hasson and Wong to FUE surgeons like Lorenzo, feriduni and erdogan, these physicians train their techs, so you tell me who would rather have extracting the grafts the teacher or the student? I think erdogans method is best, sharing the extraction responsibility with his seasoned tech celik. There are very few physicians left that do any extractions, I would warrant caution going to any FUE physician that leaves the extraction completely up to technicians, this includes Lorenzo, when you look back at his YouTube channel most of those results were by his hands, now that things have changed, I doubt he'll get the same results, if you're going to a physician to get FUE and their tech is better at doing the extractions you're going to the wrong surgeon period. Dr. Umar still does the extractions, Dr. Diep claims to do the extractions himself.

 

Not exactly true. Techs have done the extractions at Injertocapilar for years, people think Lorenzo always did the extractions until recently, but that is bacause during his stint in Manchester he did most of the extractions, but not in Madrid.

 

Unless he has a really challenging patient, then he will do the extractions himself, along with Dr Vila.

 

For me he did the first few, then passed it on to his techs, said my follicles were easy to extract, no problems, then patted me on the shoulder and said the tech doing the extractions did his when he had his op.

 

Techs doing the extractions is the norm in Europe i'd say, not the states though.