BIG ANNOUNCEMENT-Dr. Hasson Instagram Live December 10th- THIS IS GONNA BE A GOOD ONE!

[EvoXOhio]

Just now, Melvin- Moderator said:

Full interview here

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CXUa2QpAjkm/?utm_medium=copy_link

Is there a written announcement we can read that covers specifics? For those of us who don’t have the time to watch the video. 

[Britanium]

Great 👍🏽 thanks for the link 🤩

[Melvin- Admin]

4 minutes ago, EvoXOhio said:

Is there a written announcement we can read that covers specifics? For those of us who don’t have the time to watch the video. 

Basically, he has a patented delivery liposomal delivery system which traps the liposomes on the scalp and slowly releases into the scalp. Reducing systemic absorption whilst inhibiting type II 5-alpha reductase enzymes on the scalp. 

[EvoXOhio]

19 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Basically, he has a patented delivery liposomal delivery system which traps the liposomes on the scalp and slowly releases into the scalp. Reducing systemic absorption whilst inhibiting type II 5-alpha reductase enzymes on the scalp. 

Very cool. Is he selling the product? If so when and where? Ship to the US?

[Melvin- Admin]

10 minutes ago, EvoXOhio said:

Very cool. Is he selling the product? If so when and where? Ship to the US?

Yea it’s already available 

https://www.xyonhealth.com

[hairlossPA]

is this only topical finasteride? or is dutasteride is included?

I'm gonna try to watch it all but we'll see

[Melvin- Admin]

1 minute ago, hairlossPA said:

is this only topical finasteride? or is dutasteride is included?

I'm gonna try to watch it all but we'll see

For now only topical finasteride, they’re still doing studies on the topical dutasteride trying to figure out the most effective dosage 

[RandoBrando517]

How much is it?

[DedLifts]

Do we know what the actual substance is like, and how easy it is to apply?

The main disadvantage to topicals: They make thin hair look even worse, and then when you get regrowth, it makes the products harder to apply.

Going to give this a shot either way though.

[Melvin- Admin]

3 hours ago, RandoBrando517 said:

How much is it?

Don’t know yet.

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, DedLifts said:

Do we know what the actual substance is like, and how easy it is to apply?

The main disadvantage to topicals: They make thin hair look even worse, and then when you get regrowth, it makes the products harder to apply.

Going to give this a shot either way though.

It’s a gel, I’m assuming you can put it on a few hours before bed, then style your hair the next morning. I’ve found that certain topicals make my hair look thicker.

[Gokuhairline]

what areas would this be applied on or all over your head lol ?

[lovinitl9]

is this different than the topical finasteride they used to sell? and any timeline on the topical dutasteride?

[JDEE0]

Dr. Hasson is a very eloquent, well spoken doctor who has clearly put a lot of time and effort into this research. This could be a game changer for a lot of people who either just don't want to, or can't use fin.

If it turns out (which it already sounds like has been confirmed from what Hasson was saying in regards to his collected data) that their topical dutasteride indeed is equally as or more effective than fin (topical or oral), with a very low systemic absorption of only a 10 percent reduction in Serum DHT, then I really see no reason that this wouldn't or shouldn't become the new standard go-to treatment for everyone and essentially replace finasteride. 

As long as the study is half-decent and has been carried out on a reasonable number of people over a fair time period (which I'm sure it is as we are talking about H&W here, just my opinion would change a little and I wouldn't be anywhere near as sure about my previous statement if it was only on say 5 people over a period of weeks, although it would still be good evidence and news overall), I really don't see why it shouldn't become the new go-to. Of course, as covered in the video, we can't expect the detail of a large scale, heavily funded controlled trial from Hasson and the pharmacy/university he is working with on an old, already approved drug; I just mean enough that the results are clearly representative of the general population and we can say with confidence and evidence that it works.

I am a big fan of fin overall as it's the best we have, and although I have no issues taking it, I've always said I would stop/switch if something else was proven or found likely to be more effective whilst also altering your hormonal profile less at the same time. I wouldn't bother for the topical fin on its own, personally; mainly because it's daily application and still lowers 30 percent of serum DHT (according to Hasson). Don't get me wrong, this is still a fair amount less when compared to 60-70 percent from oral and is certainly worth trying if oral gave sides, just in the case of someone like me who is fine on oral, it's not enough less to justify the hassle of applying every day.

With topical dut though, although Hasson has said they're figuring out the best dosing schedule still so he can't say yet, it's probably not going to be a daily application or anything close to it most likely, due to the long half life. If it's a weekly application, every 10 days, twice a week, whatever, then it definitely becomes worth it to switch to me. It's not much of a hassle at all to only have to apply every so often and I think pretty much everyone could adhere to this without much issue. 

The only other thing then for people to consider would be price, generic fin is very cheap and costs peanuts every year, would be tough to justify changing over if it was very expensive for the average person who is fine on oral fin (which is most). I wouldn't mind paying for that peace of mind that you're altering your body as little as possible though as long as it wasn't stupidly expensive. 

Thanks for organising this, it is probably some of the best or most progressive news for 'new' MPB treatments we've had for quite some time imo. 

 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by JDEE0

[Gatsby]

An excellent interview @Melvin- Moderator. In fact one of the best I think. Thanks for sharing! 👍

[Curious25]

Really great interview thanks Melvin.

Interesting points I noted:

Their topical finasteride formula has shown to go 95% less systemic than oral administration, yet this still reduces serum DHT levels by 30%, which IMO is still quite a bit of a reduction. I do however acknowledge their patients haven't reported any adverse affects at this level, which is great - however I am surprised at how such little systemic absorption still has the capacity to reduce serum DHT by almost a third. 

Pro FUE stance - really interesting, especially coming from a leader of strip surgery. I thought his points were fantastic, and his confidence in the density he is able to achieve via FUE was obvious. @Aftermath is testimony to this. 

Oral Minoxidil - his concern RE. collagen depletion was anecdotal from what he has seen in practice, however I believe from the gist of what he was referring to, only relates to the potential implications of healing from surgery. There is literature online supporting a reduction in scalp collagen being a positive in relation to hair loss, in the sense of it reducing the potential for collagen build up around hair follicles, and speeding up the miniaturisation process - essentially mimicking scar tissue, and being comparable to how scarring alopecia functions. Again his concerns for the affects it may or may not have on facial ageing, is non hair loss related, however as an overall aesthetic stand point, important to consider. I'd be keen to learn what pro Oral Minoxidil doctors have to say in response to these two trails of thought. 


 

[deeznuts]

Sadly my question wasn't asked. 

The topical dutasteride sounds extremely exciting though so I'm probably gonna sign up for that when the time comes. 

 

[Gatsby]

I think one of the the biggest message s that came from this interview is for those that can’t tolerate 5ari’s. There is now realistic hope with topical Finasteride and in the future topical dutasteride. 

[bald-and-bearded]

22 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

No, he doesn’t. The funding it takes to publish peer-reviewed double-blinded studies takes millions of dollars. Only a big pharmaceutical company can do that, but he has his own studies. 

EDIT: sorry just realised the QnA is over, watching it now

Edited December 11, 2021 by bald-and-bearded

[bald-and-bearded]

Just watched it. Thanks for asking him about the studies Melvin.

 

[ciaus]

 

14 hours ago, JDEE0 said:

then I really see no reason that this wouldn't or shouldn't become the new standard go-to treatment for everyone and essentially replace finasteride. 

Personally I don't trust dutasteride enough, it has a more powerful and lingering effect, and compared to finasteride there aren't as many studies, FDA approval, and a long safety history over decades of millions of users. Guys should try finasteride first and if they continue losing, carefully weigh your options to include relying on more hair transplants if the finasteride slows your loss down enough before jumping on dutasteride. 

And the topicals are always going to be a small segment of the total market. If you're not getting side effects, like the vast majority of people taking fin and even dut, myself included, there's no reason to switch over to a topical that will be a pain in the a$$ to apply for the rest of your life, compared to popping a pill. 

For those looking to start, it'd be better to start by micro-dosing the pills and gradually increasing up to the standard dosage before trying to dabble in the topicals. But maybe if you are really worried about side effects to the point of being vulnerable to the nocebo effect, see if you can handle the topical first and if so, then try to move over to micro-dosing and gradually increasing the dosage of the pills. Applying a topical for the rest of your life is a big commitment, and you have to worry about other people like esp pregnant women, coming into contact with it. And its always going to be alot more expensive relative to the pills.

[JDEE0]

40 minutes ago, ciaus said:

 

Personally I don't trust dutasteride enough, it has a more powerful and lingering effect, and compared to finasteride there aren't as many studies, FDA approval, and a long safety history over decades of millions of users. Guys should try finasteride first and if they continue losing, carefully weigh your options to include relying on more hair transplants if the finasteride slows your loss down enough before jumping on dutasteride. 

And the topicals are always going to be a small segment of the total market. If you're not getting side effects, like the vast majority of people taking fin and even dut, myself included, there's no reason to switch over to a topical that will be a pain in the a$$ to apply for the rest of your life, compared to popping a pill. 

For those looking to start, it'd be better to start by micro-dosing the pills and gradually increasing up to the standard dosage before trying to dabble in the topicals. But maybe if you are really worried about side effects to the point of being vulnerable to the nocebo effect, see if you can handle the topical first and if so, then try to move over to micro-dosing and gradually increasing the dosage of the pills. Applying a topical for the rest of your life is a big commitment, and you have to worry about other people like esp pregnant women, coming into contact with it. And its always going to be alot more expensive relative to the pills.

Well, I pretty much caveated my post with a bunch of points that address all of what you say here...

I said if (when it's released) the data is good enough to draw solid conclusions from and has irrefutable evidence, then at that point only, I don't see why it couldn't become the new go-to. I pointed out that, if it's small scale and not long enough in duration, I take back what I'm saying. On the flip side, If it turns out Hasson has trialed this on say a total of 50+ of patients in total at least, over let's say 6 months+ in duration (and has carried out adequate blood work at the same time etc), then FDA approval or not, I would probably find it hard to argue that any of what you say matters when there is strong proof it only reduces serum DHT by 10 percent as opposed to 70 percent from finasteride (which is what he said he has found).

If it's proven that it doesn't go anywhere near as systemic and mostly acts locally, then it doesn't matter about its 'powerful lingering effect' (i.e. long half life); we would have solid proof that it exerts far less change upon hormonal profile than regular fin. Besides, we know that dutasteride has a very similar safety profile to finasteride anyway even just in oral form from all the studies on BPH, just as a rebuttal to your point in general, not that it would be relevant if this topical version went systemic to such a small extent.

I agree with your second paragraph entirely and essentially wrote the same thing in my original post here; I said that I wouldn't be interested in a daily application as I find it much easier to just take a pill every day that causes both me and most people in general no issues whatsoever.... that there'd be no point. What I did say is that if the topical dutasteride is a once every 7-10 day application and is shown to be very effective, perhaps even more so than oral fin, then I would be very interested as at the end of the day I'd be reducing serum DHT by 10 percent rather than 70, I'd only have to apply it to my head on a weekly basis or so, and it might actually be more effective at halting MPB. It wouldn't really be much of an inconvenience at all to do it this infrequently, and as much as a fan I am of finasteride, I'd still take something that was proven to be way less hormone altering and equally as effective at the trade off of I have to apply topically 4 times a month or even less...

I am also a big proponent of fin, and like I say, I recommend everyone to take it if they're losing hair and I think it's overwhelmingly safe. Generally though, I disagree with the whole microdosing tactic you state unless it's strictly for nocebo purposes. In that case, fair enough, in any other, there's no point imo. The inhibition curve is very flat and honestly, whether you take 1mg daily, 0.5mg daily, or 0.25 mg daily, you're going to inhibit a very similar amount of DHT. If you get sides with one, then biologically, I don't see why you wouldn't with another, and as such, I just recommend people start with the recommended dose, or if they want to do 0.5mg daily then that works too. 

For your last points, as I've said, I don't think it is a big commitment to apply something once every 7-10 days or something similar, so I disagree that this is a huge commitment. But I would agree if it was daily. As far as other people go, just wash your hands after you apply it and go out into the world, at this point, unless you go around rubbing your scalp on pregnant women out and about then I don't think there will be any issues. If you have a pregnant wife or something, again, wash your hands and let it dry/soak into your scalp and dry before you go and have her touching your hair etc. and it will be fine.  

I also mentioned the price in my original post, said it would be negative.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2021 by JDEE0

[JDEE0]

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Edited December 11, 2021 by JDEE0

[Curious25]

I’m more or less completely against dht inhibition personally, however if a topical dutasteride formula came light that only reduced serum DHT by 10%, and only needed to be applied once every week for 4 hours . . I would be hard pushed not to give it a go. 

[bald-and-bearded]

Going by the interview, Hasson and team have found a fundamentally new way of administering finasteride through a vehicle such that it causes significantly lower systemic absorption and they have a patent for this. This means this is a big opportunity to make $$$ until the patent lasts. All they have to do is join hands with a big pharma, get FDA approval and advertise. I think people tend to feel safer using a topical product than a pill so it will probably sell.