My hair transplant with Dr. Umar.

[Curious]

HG, how long after you took the meds did you pass out?

[BlackAmish111]

@Shampoo: Ill respond in the Pre-Design (Q&A) thread to your question as not to further derail this case.

[irishsailor]

I hope hair guy can find peace and be able to move on with his life from this. I had a bad ht experience a few yrs back and spent yrs wanting payback but it was more pain for me in the long run.

Things turned out ok in the end and I'm sure they will for hair guy as well.

[Blake Bloxham]

Hi Guys,

 

I just wanted to leave a few remarks:

 

Dr. Umar,

 

Thank you for sharing that last post. I think it was objective and provided a lot of necessary information. Altogether, I think you've thoroughly explained what occurred, and I think the post-operative images look well-designed and refined.

 

HairGuy,

 

Regardless of what I said above, I am still disappointed that you were unable to meet your goals. Though you should have waited a full 12 months and discussed the situation with Dr. Umar before seeking additional procedures, I still find it upsetting that you had to go through this and sincerely hope you finally achieve your goals.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Future_HT_Doc

[hairshopeing]

Also Bill, this post is not in any way to suggest that you or the network are biased or disingenuous at all, because that is not what I believe in the slightest.

 

However, I don't see the reasoning in always locking negative threads from work of recommended or coalition doctors. If a thread is out of control I understand, but I don't think that is the case with this thread. All other threads on this site are allowed to naturally run their course and fade away as interest wains, and if a poster later comes across the thread and has something relevant to add they can do so. I don't understand why all negative threads are treated different and locked instead of being allowed to naturally run their course.

 

Iv said this before, this needs to be noted!! This site is invaluable but the above I find very off putting!!

[Rem]

Bill,

 

In every way this forum is great. Well maintained, well encouraged, well disciplined, abundance of resources. I have only once visited another forum and that too when Jenna sought my permission to post my case on that forum. But what has kept me hooked to the forum is the freedom of speech with which members are allowed to air their views.....no undue censorship.

 

Freedom of speech is priceless and most attractive to people. People love to flock to places where they can be heard....at the least heard.....things may not go their way but they hang in there with a hope. Beauty of democracy and freedom. The moment the freedom of speech is snubbed, people feel alienated and suffocated.

 

Let it run its course and if it has already, it will fade away on its own. I would urge you to reconsider your decision to lock this thread.

[wylie]

Some may think this thread should remain unlocked and "run its course", but let's remember a number of untrue allegations have been leveled against a respected doctor, and it is entirely unfair for these specious claims to be left out there for anyone, including those with a similar agenda, to use this discussion as their personal pinata.

 

I agree with Bill and Spanker and think this thread should be locked. It has already "run its course", IMO.

[avivalasvegas]

I'd like to see this thread stay open as well and would urge you to reconsider your decision to lock. Reason: there is a lack of transparent feedback centered around the negative experiences of transplant patients.

[Mickey85]

Bill,

 

In every way this forum is great. Well maintained, well encouraged, well disciplined, abundance of resources. I have only once visited another forum and that too when Jenna sought my permission to post my case on that forum. But what has kept me hooked to the forum is the freedom of speech with which members are allowed to air their views.....no undue censorship.

 

Freedom of speech is priceless and most attractive to people. People love to flock to places where they can be heard....at the least heard.....things may not go their way but they hang in there with a hope. Beauty of democracy and freedom. The moment the freedom of speech is snubbed, people feel alienated and suffocated.

 

Let it run its course and if it has already, it will fade away on its own. I would urge you to reconsider your decision to lock this thread.

 

I do agree with this.

[bunnyman]

Some may think this thread should remain unlocked and "run its course", but let's remember a number of untrue allegations have been leveled against a respected doctor, and it is entirely unfair for these specious claims to be left out there for anyone, including those with a similar agenda, to use this discussion as their personal pinata.

 

I agree with Bill and Spanker and think this thread should be locked. It has already "run its course", IMO.

 

 

Anyone with a brain reading this thread can make their own informed judgment on this case as to what is "true" or "untrue". There are indeed negative comments about a well known doctor on the thread but everyone has to remember that nothing has been concluded between the two people involved - ie, the doctor and the patient.

 

Simply by shutting this thread down or locking it is not good for free speech on this forum. It should be allowed to run until the thread has been exhausted.

[Davis91]

I agree that the thread should be kept open until it plays out, whatever that means. I trust the moderators to determine when that is.

 

I hope the patient finds some peace here. I assume he is removing not all of the grafts planted but just the horizontal front "aggressive" plane and blending into the rest including adding some new singles to soften the appearance. It seemed from the pre-op photos a better plan would have been a conservative approach of 1500-1800 grafts to stabilize the hairline because the patient looks to recede to an NW4-5 later, and his pre-op photos show a normal recession pattern.

 

I wonder if the patient saw any other HT doctors pre-op for a graft quote? Sorry if I missed this.

[Davis91]

I agree that the thread should be kept open until it plays out, whatever that means. I trust the moderators to determine when that is.

 

I hope the patient finds some peace here. I assume he is removing not all of the grafts planted but just the horizontal front "aggressive" plane and blending into the rest including adding some new singles to soften the appearance. It seemed from the pre-op photos a better plan would have been a conservative approach of 1500-1800 grafts to stabilize the hairline because the patient looks to recede to an NW4-5 later, and his pre-op photos show a normal recession pattern.

 

I wonder if the patient saw any other HT doctors pre-op for a graft quote? Sorry if I missed this.

[Hairguy350]

@ shampoo, medication was given.

 

I also find it disconcerting that as my story that has not changed, but has been given in increasing detail as this thread evolved is construed as contradictions by some posters. The addition of more details does not constitute contradictions.

 

@greatjob, If you read through the entire forum from start to finish you will be able to ascertain which photos are post repair and which are prior. Your first and second of four photos are prior to any corrective work. Yes, the first photo shows the frontal area cut short, but no work had been performed as I stated previously. Also the second photo is prior to any repair work, but yes I had shaved my entire head to a one or two. The third photo shows where the lasered grafts that were in telogen and working there way out had been removed, and the measurements had been taken. Finally, the fourth photo is post laser, and pre-telogen graft removal. These are the same statements I made previously. I think some posters see ghosts and look for anything they can turn into a discrepancy to fit their preconceived notions of what they want to believe.

 

@shampoo, I don’t do recreational drugs as I am required to maintain a security clearance, and am subject to monthly drug (prescription and illegal), and steroid tests.

 

@ Curious, I did not have a watch on so I do not know what time it was. All I can say as I have said before is I have no recollection of anything after being asked to lean my head back. That is why I said I passed out because I believe I did. Whether this was due to passing out, amnesia, or whatever I have no idea. Any inconsistency from my statements that some say are contradictions are projections from individuals.

I am sure that everyone here has drank alcohol at sometime in their life, and probably have drank so much that they blacked out before. While some who is blackout drunk appears conscious and has their eyes open you would consider that person to be impaired. This condition can happen under the influence of medications too. People who have taken ambien have known to appear as conscious and awake, but actually be asleep while they are doing things. Therefore, it my claims are perfectly reasonable, and at the minimum present a case of reasonable doubt as to the counter claims of the physician. Dr. Umar seems to be very adept at covering for himself. His pictures are a sly legal way to bolster his legal protection.

 

@ Davis91, I did consult other doctors for quotes. Dr. Umar was not the only physician I consulted with. The other two physicians recommended 1800 grafts. I had ultimately chosen Dr. Umars recommended 3000 graft procedure which was actually 2350 because absent pre-design details of what was actually going to be designed I believe the additional grafts would give me a better result. Obviously, I was wrong

 

Next week I will post some more photos after my second repair procedure. I will specifically showcase the use of multi hair grafts in the frontal hairline. If someone here would be kind enough to send me a message as to how greatjob posted the photos in the forum so I can post them directly here instead of on my profile I would appreciate that.

[Hairguy350]

duplicate - edited by moderator

Edited September 26, 2013 by Future_HT_Doc

[Heliboy]

Hairguy,

Having been through this process many times at the same office , same meds, processes , forms etc I have tried to walk myself through the process you have stated that you went through on these two days. I keep trying to answer my own questions as to how you didn't know where your hairline was going to be on the day that it was transplanted when it was clearly drawn out for you on the first day as seen in the pics posted by Dr Umar. Again I have been there and done that so this is why I keep finding myself asking questions that aren't clear.

 

My biggest question is this . You finished up your procedure on day 1 which consisted of the hairline being drawn in / and the work had been started in the frontal scalp area behind the new hairline mark and afterwards you went to wherever you were staying that night. I always stayed at the hotel across the street so that I could walk to the office the next morning .

 

Even though you have made mention many times of your sedation problems during your preop workup/design you must have woke up at some point prior to the following days procedure. So when you went home/hotel or wherever you stayed that night and looked at what had been done that day and saw the work that had been done that day and the location of the drawn in hairline - why didnt you ask Dr Umar the next day before the actual hairline transplant started about your concerns with the hairline design. I know as a pharmacist / a patient/ and logically that the peak effect of these meds wear off generally after 10-12 hours after receiving them. I know that from my own experience I went back to my room and looked at my work in the mirror in my hotel room numerous times that night.

 

I guess my question is this : Did you not look that night at the both the transplanted area that was done on Day 1 and the proposed hairline area that had been drawn for Day 2 when you got in or at least prior to the next mornings procedure? You state that you were oversedated when the hairline design work was drawn in and you dont remember approving it - but were you still sedated all night /when you got up the next morning / took a shower etc / and while making your trip back to the office for Day 2 work on the hairline?

 

Again I'm not trying to give you a hard time but honestly having been through this myself there are areas of this that are simply very difficult to understand in terms of your comprehension of what your final hairline design would be on Day 2 and how much input you had in finalizing it when the actual hairline work was to begin on Day 2.

[greatjob]

@greatjob, If you read through the entire forum from start to finish you will be able to ascertain which photos are post repair and which are prior. Your first and second of four photos are prior to any corrective work. Yes, the first photo shows the frontal area cut short, but no work had been performed as I stated previously. Also the second photo is prior to any repair work, but yes I had shaved my entire head to a one or two. The third photo shows where the lasered grafts that were in telogen and working there way out had been removed, and the measurements had been taken. Finally, the fourth photo is post laser, and pre-telogen graft removal. These are the same statements I made previously. I think some posters see ghosts and look for anything they can turn into a discrepancy to fit their preconceived notions of what they want to believe.

 

 

 

I did read every post from beginning to end as they were posted.

 

With all due respect, your account of when the pics were taken has flipped flopped. Multiple times in this thread you stated that all the pics were prior to any corrective work, however now you are stating that some pics were post corrective work.

 

I have no agenda and I really don't care if Dr. Umar is found to be in the wrong. I also disagree with some former patients of Dr. Umar's using the flawed logic that since their experience was great then your experience would also have to have been great, however there are some inconsistencies in your story. I was going to go back and quote the multiple times you stated that all of the pics were pre-corrective work, which you are now saying is incorrect, however I don't have that much free time.

 

Also if the first and second pics were pre any corrective work I see no way that is possible. The difference in the hair caliber and skin condition could never be achieved by simple changing the length of the hair. I genuinely feel you are an unsatisfied patient which is terrible, but I do not think you are being 100% genuine in your account of the timeline and the facts.

[Heliboy]

I went back from day 1 and read over the occurences once again . To say things are inconsistent is understated. Based on HairGuy's account I actually tried to put myself through the same enactment. As I mentioned before I started my procedures back in 2005-2006 with Dr Umar and I have flown to California 6 times over the years and been with all of the same processes and procedures as described by HairGuy. Many of my procedures required multiple day visits with some being up to 4-5 days early on when we started. I read through this again after a few days staying away from this thread and I still keep asking myself questions.

 

Aside from all the claims of oversedation and that HairGuy was impaired and couldnt make concious decisions etc about finalizing his hairline location . The impression given here is that he was rushed in - oversedated - a hairline was drawn in that he didnt approve of and 6 months later he was dissatisfied and had to take extreme measures to correct it. Thats kind of the summary I get when I read through it all . The questions I keep asking myself are regards to details during the visit not afterwards with the hair growth phase. He was not there for 1 day only - he was there for 2 days.

 

It appears that on Day 1 the hairline was drawn in as shown in the pics by Dr Umar. The proposed hairline was clearly marked with a dark marker. Now here is a big question that I simply dont understand .

 

Here is the comment made by HairGuy :

"He said I was not much of an artist and instructed me to lay my head back, and that is the last thing that I remember, and that was the only time we ever spoke in person. 2350 Grafts were then subsequently placed."

 

Unless I'm reading it wrong according to Dr Umar's timeline the hairline was drawn in on Day 1 during the preop visit and grafts were placed in the frontal area behind the hairline on Day 1 . So during this time according to HairGuys account he was unaware of where the hairline had been drawn. So my question is this and again I base this on my own personal experiences following post-op. When the procedure was finished you eventually had to come out of your sedation. As a pharmacist / a patient who has taken the preop meds / and just using common judgement the peak effect of these preop meds is 3-6 hours . You eventually had to leave the office to go back to where you were staying. I always stayed across the street at the Best Western Suites so that I was within walking distance to the office. But when I got back to my hotel room from the procedure each day I was fully awake I would look at what was done in the mirror.

 

I'm finally getting to my question. So after the procedure was over on Day 1 did you not eventually go back to where you were staying and look at what had been done that day and see where the proposed hairline would be . Since work had been done behind the hairline on Day 1 and assuming the frontal hairline area was still untouched and planned for Day 2 - did you not look at the marked area that night under no sedation and determine if there was any question of its location why didn't you raise a question the following morning on Day 2 prior to the actual final front hairline work being done. This is why I mention the above quote where it states the only time you ever saw Dr Umar in person was during preop on Day 1 when your hairline was being drawn out when you were there for 2 days. Why didnt you mention concerns of the proposed hairline location on Day 2 ?

 

The problem is that you are making some serious accusations and personally for me having gone through this myself I can presume that you were not sedated from the start of Day 1 when you state your judgement was impaired ALL the way through that night until the morning of Day 2 when you were getting prepped again for your second procedure. I suspect there was a 10-12 hour period of time in which you had time to review things before the next mornings procedure.

 

I ask this from a patients perspective : Did you not look at both the transplanted area that night after Day 1 when you were not sedated and review the proposed hairline location that was planned for Day 2? You are leading to believe that you had no time after the hairline design was drawn in on Day1 to review the proposed frontal hairline location with a clear mind and this is what seems to be puzzling since this critical phase of the work was done on Day 2 when you could have spoken to Dr Umar that morning prior to the procedure if there were concerns. Having been there myself this is what puzzles me.

Edited September 27, 2013 by Heliboy

[Hairguy350]

Greatjob, feelings and facts are two different things. Those photos I stated were pre-corrective work are prior to laser or graft extraction. The graft hair caliber was different than the natural hair, and I have fair skin so shaving my head with clippers can exacerbate my skin tone. Especially when there is already residual redness that still persists to this day. You are free to believe what you want even if it is wrong.

 

Hellboy, no amount of information or explanation on my part will ever convince you that Dr. Umar could ever make an error since you had such a great experience. Anything I write is scrutinized beyond norms, whereas, Dr. Umar can state in his responses that I had not been given any medications at the time of consult even though it is a documented fact that his nurse administered all the oral meds prior to our meeting in the OR, which makes his statement a lie, but I digress. Therefore, I feel no need to continue this charade with someone who's mind is already made up.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Future_HT_Doc
outside video removed

[Hairguy350]

Duplicate; deleted by moderator.

Edited September 28, 2013 by Future_HT_Doc

[greatjob]

You stated that the first two pictures (posted below) were prior to any corrective work or laser treatment and were taken at about 6 months post op. However I can't see any way that is possible because the hair in the transplanted region in the two pictures looks completely different.

 

 

 

The only reason I'm harping on the issue of when corrective work was taken in regards to the pictures is because for me that is the only piece of evidence that we can evaluate. Everything else about when medication was administered and agreement on hairline placement and design is something the community can never come to a reasonable conclusion about because it is your word against Dr. Umar and no definitive evidence can be presented on those topics.

 

Now maybe I'm wrong and the angle and lighting are play tricks here, but in the first picure there are very pronounced little hairs at the hairline, and in the second picture there is not. Also I'm not defending Dr. Umar or trying to attack you, I'm just trying to figure this all out.

[Heliboy]

HairGuy,

Exploring every aspect of your procedure is not a charade when you are the one that brought forth your case to be reviewed. You still didnt address the question.

 

I do not consider understanding each day of your procedure a charade as you presented yourself that you essentially did not have an opportunity to discuss your hairline when in fact according to the timeline you had plenty of time to discuss it when the frontal hairline wasn't even touched until Day 2.

 

The fact remains that your front hairline according to the timeline accounts was not started until Day 2 ( January 11th) Why did you not bring forth any concerns that following morning on Day 2 before the frontal hairline work was initiated when you had the following evening/night (I approximate 10-12 hours from my experiences) of Day 1 work and the following morning to overcome your ' oversedation' and discuss it.

 

From my standpoint Day 2 of your procedure is equally as important as every aspect of Day 1 when you are claiming oversedation and your inability to make decisions during the Day 1 design discussion: and quite honestly because you had the entire evening and night after your procedure to review all aspects of work done on Day 1 and the proposed hairline- why did you not bring up your concerns for the actual hairline location before it began on Day 2 when you had no sedation in you? This is not a charade.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Heliboy

[Shampoo]

Gosh I am glad Bill decded to not lock this thread because the two

previous posts by Heliboy and greatjob are very interesting to say the least.

[Hairguy350]

In response to the validity of whether or not 2,3,4,or 5 hair grafts were used in the hairline here is a photo.

[Hairguy350]

[greatjob]

Again the issue is with corrective work. That photo is clearly after laser treatment, so it's impossible to judge Dr. Umar's work. I really wish you would have waited to have corrective work, you really shot yourself in the foot.