Heliboy

Blake, That was very well summarized !!!

Hairweare, I must agree with you on that point . It is sad that many (including myself) have spent a great deal of their life (both mentally and financially) on initial injury that require further extensive cost and repair. I will tell you this after being butchered by 4 strip physicians back in the late 90's when no FUE was available - it is so nice to have the advances that we have today with FUE for both scalp and strip. For those that have not experienced both to compare - its hard to fully understand overall benefits of each . I will tell you that today I would without hesitation go with a beard / scalp hair hybrid transplant knowing the type of shorter hair style (3/4 legnth on top) that I prefer and looks very good on me. The beard hair is actually much more appropriate for this hair style than scalp hair. My take home point is at least we have options now - although costly they may be. Beard/BHT requires understanding of limitations/expectations .

Wylie, This is a very good synopsis of our events. I can assure you that there are few people in the world that have gone through the hell and scarring I put myself through with strip procedures back in the late 90's. Looking at different perspectives I can see where those who have used mostly scalp hair see only those results as ' normal ' and see beard hair results as something different. It really all comes down to the eye of the beholder. I had to wear a hairpiece for 14 years due to the extensive scarring / damage that I had from multiple strip procedures. My head looked completely destroyed so I had to cover it up. I was able to stop wearing a hairpiece after 14 years because of BHT/Beard Hair. My only option was body/beard hair which was a dream come true (LITERALLY) Again the point that I make is basically knowing the limitations / expectations of BHT/Beard hair . Dr Umar was of the first to have the ambition to begin extracting beard hair . There is certainly artistry to using it because of the physical complex characterisitics beard hair has. I personally feel as in my own case beard hair works wonders if you desire a shorter haircut style. That is simply because of the physical nature of the hair. I will be the first to tell you that we are not all in the same boat when it comes to our experiences. For those of us that required extensive repair our perspective may seem different than others. We all want what works best and fulfills us personally that allows us to live normal lives. I can certainly assure you that I was able to stop hiding from the world and start living.

The results of this individual are nothing less than spectactular and I can tell you as previous NW 5 patient of Dr Umar I know this patient is relieved. I consider myself very knowlegeable of BHT and during follow up visits back to see Dr Umar he ask in most cases to allow your hair to grow out and not cut it if possible to see its full potential so that he can evaluate every aspect of growth. I looked at this patients result and the first thing that came into my mind was he simply needs to have a haircut to shape his hair up nicely. Nothing more. The coverage here is exceptional and what I'm most interested in is the temporal angles which are perfect . When using beard hair there are limitations to legnth of hair. It is what it is. It can get a little frizzy if grown out too long. It isnt used for necessarily legnth - but primarily for filler and density. For my own hair I keep it cut short which is ideal for beard hair in my own case. I was Dr Umar's first large mega-session BHT patient nearly 10 years ago . I was in the early era of early BHT when beard hair was being evaluated for use but not in practice and other BHT (chest/leg/arms) were the primary sources . I was a NW (5) at the time and had to make multiple trips out to Dr Umar's office on the west coast. I remember very well on my 3rd visit back Dr Umar had begun using beard hair as the first primary BHT source. It was life-changing for me because of the significant characteristics that beard hair offered over other BHT sources. Having had hair taken from every location on my body I can tell you it is beneficial especially in large NW cases such as this and my own. The ironic part of all this is I came back on this forum posting my experiences and at the time the most miraculous aspect was the wound healing . You literally could not tell the beard hair extraction sites the next day. When telling my experience every doubter in the world (literally) was on the forum doubting me and saying how it wasn't possible to get these results. That is when I decided years ago that these forums are good for those seeking information but are also filled with those ' thinking what they know offers others benefit' but no idea what they are talking about. What I learned over the years from my BHT / Beard hair transplants: 1) Excellent option for all scars. 2) Provides exceptional coverage with lower graft counts especially in large NW cases. 3) Has limitations to legnth but provides excellent density - do not expect it to look exactly as scalp hair . 4) When knowing these legnth limitations work with a hairstyle that best fits you. If using beard hair as the primary source (>50 %) to cover the Norwood area you will likely need to use a shorter hair cut style (keeping the hair around 1/2 inch in legnth). This limitation is lessened when the beard hair is used as a hybrid and mixed with larger proportions of scalp hair as the primary source and legnth of hair is not an issue. 5) Understanding the limitations/ & expectations of beard hair / BHT is crucial. 6) The biggest issue is that individuals who say BHT is not an appropriate source make undesirable comparisons to scalp hair and trying to make them so . They are not the same and just because they are not does not mean beard hair is not a desirable option for acheiving coverage. I dont visit the forums too much anymore for the primary reason that you have so many arm chair quarterbacks. Those who haven't sat in the chair or laid on the table yet they come on forums with their so called opinions and (expertise) telling people what they should do or what they did was a mistake . For those people who constantly doubted me almost 10 years ago when I posted the first body hair mega sessions- today there are many satisfied patients all over the world that now are relieved of hair loss because of Dr Umar's absolute relentless efforts to make BHT a successs. The problem is on these forums you will always have the doubters and people who have no idea (in real life) what they are talking about . People who want to dig deep to find issues when nothing more than a simple haircut trimming is all that is necessary. There is forum life and there is real life. Thanks to Dr Umar I and many others now live a real life while the forum experts ' try to figure it all out' . It will never change. BHT/Scalp Hair Mega-Sessions

HairGuy, You continue to run/avoid from the question at hand in a case which you make serious accusations. I presented my case for hairline work to show where an actual 5cm hairline is located when you try to make a case that it is inappropriate. When in fact it is not inappropriate. What you think of my result is of no meaning to me whatsoever. I'ved moved on with my life and have put hairloss behind me thanks to Dr Umar's abilities as a surgeon. The fact that he has advanced the use of body/beard hair making it a viable source of donor hair for those that need it like myself is quite remarkable and I'm personally very thankful for it. I dont ' represent' anyone online - I only represent my experience that has allowed me to move on with life. Do you want to know what causes redness - that would be called..................... drum roll please ....................... THE SUN. I suffer from what some would call - WHITE BOY SYNDROME. Yes this syndrome is where you have fair skin and you get out in the sun and it causes sunburn. You seem to have fair skin as well. Do you get out in the sun very often? As you can see from the photo you posted that I keep my hair cut very close and two days before these pictures were taken I had been out on a kayak for about 7 hours paddling on the intracoastal waterway in mid summer. Listen I have nothing to prove to you. You presented your case and you need to be able to answer simple questions. I'm not the one making accusations and presenting my case on a public forum for open review. Now lets get back on topic once again: Why did you not take the opportunity to discuss any concerns on Day 2 prior to your procedure during a ' sedation free period' preop regarding the design / placement of your hairline if there were such grave concerns from your experience on Day 1? And believe me I know that your 'Dr From Georgia' is coaching you with some talking points because it isn't his first time on the forums trying to make a case.

FUE only, I can tell you that I am sure they lose their effect in the evening because I have taken them each time on the 6 separate trips I have been there . They are standard preoperative short acting medications and antibiotics used in ambulatory and outpatient settings. They are chosen depending on the type of procedure and the effect needed to provide the optimal comfort for the patient during the procedure. How do I know these medications are used as standard procedure because I work in a hospital pharmacy and see them everyday. During my own procedures with Dr Umar I actually watched movies or listened to music during the procedure. After the procedure I would go back to the hotel order up some pizza/ or a calzone and watch T.V until time to go to bed for the next day procedure . Everything is quite standard operating procedure and that is why me reading all this is simply bogus . During the evening I would walk along the boardwalk at the marina even with my bandana on that covered my head from the work done that day. It is a very nice location along the beach. I certainly wasnt walking around ' out of my senses'. Absolutely rediculous. Regarding your beard scarring statement- again this is the problem that I have with these forums from people who comment who have no clue what they are talking about. I have had a minimum of 4500 beard hair grafts taken and you couldnt tell a single one extraction site aside from the fact that you no longer have beard hair in that spot . Dr Umar actually makes a concerted effort to remove the beard hair sparsely throughout the entire beard area so that it looks natural when the beard hair is extracted. Again I will continue to wait and see why HairGuy did not approach Dr Umar on Day 2 before his next procedure if there were so many concerns from Day 1.

I am still waiting for a response to see why no questions / concerns seemed to even be mentioned/addressed the following morning on Day 2 when the actual frontal transplant work was to be done per the documented timeline. I'm trying to think through this . So you woke up on the morning for Day 2 work after being 'oversedated' the day prior in pre-op for Day 1 work. So you get ready to go to Dr Umar's office from where you were staying. You seriously had to have looked at both the area worked on from Day 1 - and the hairline newly design area multiple times both after leaving his office the day prior and the morning of Day 2 . So you go to the office non-sedated with a clear mind and say nothing about your concerns prior to the procedure ? not even concerns about being ' oversedated' the previous day. This appears to have been a big issue but you didn't mention it?

HairGuy, Exploring every aspect of your procedure is not a charade when you are the one that brought forth your case to be reviewed. You still didnt address the question. I do not consider understanding each day of your procedure a charade as you presented yourself that you essentially did not have an opportunity to discuss your hairline when in fact according to the timeline you had plenty of time to discuss it when the frontal hairline wasn't even touched until Day 2. The fact remains that your front hairline according to the timeline accounts was not started until Day 2 ( January 11th) Why did you not bring forth any concerns that following morning on Day 2 before the frontal hairline work was initiated when you had the following evening/night (I approximate 10-12 hours from my experiences) of Day 1 work and the following morning to overcome your ' oversedation' and discuss it. From my standpoint Day 2 of your procedure is equally as important as every aspect of Day 1 when you are claiming oversedation and your inability to make decisions during the Day 1 design discussion: and quite honestly because you had the entire evening and night after your procedure to review all aspects of work done on Day 1 and the proposed hairline- why did you not bring up your concerns for the actual hairline location before it began on Day 2 when you had no sedation in you? This is not a charade.

I went back from day 1 and read over the occurences once again . To say things are inconsistent is understated. Based on HairGuy's account I actually tried to put myself through the same enactment. As I mentioned before I started my procedures back in 2005-2006 with Dr Umar and I have flown to California 6 times over the years and been with all of the same processes and procedures as described by HairGuy. Many of my procedures required multiple day visits with some being up to 4-5 days early on when we started. I read through this again after a few days staying away from this thread and I still keep asking myself questions. Aside from all the claims of oversedation and that HairGuy was impaired and couldnt make concious decisions etc about finalizing his hairline location . The impression given here is that he was rushed in - oversedated - a hairline was drawn in that he didnt approve of and 6 months later he was dissatisfied and had to take extreme measures to correct it. Thats kind of the summary I get when I read through it all . The questions I keep asking myself are regards to details during the visit not afterwards with the hair growth phase. He was not there for 1 day only - he was there for 2 days. It appears that on Day 1 the hairline was drawn in as shown in the pics by Dr Umar. The proposed hairline was clearly marked with a dark marker. Now here is a big question that I simply dont understand . Here is the comment made by HairGuy : "He said I was not much of an artist and instructed me to lay my head back, and that is the last thing that I remember, and that was the only time we ever spoke in person. 2350 Grafts were then subsequently placed." Unless I'm reading it wrong according to Dr Umar's timeline the hairline was drawn in on Day 1 during the preop visit and grafts were placed in the frontal area behind the hairline on Day 1 . So during this time according to HairGuys account he was unaware of where the hairline had been drawn. So my question is this and again I base this on my own personal experiences following post-op. When the procedure was finished you eventually had to come out of your sedation. As a pharmacist / a patient who has taken the preop meds / and just using common judgement the peak effect of these preop meds is 3-6 hours . You eventually had to leave the office to go back to where you were staying. I always stayed across the street at the Best Western Suites so that I was within walking distance to the office. But when I got back to my hotel room from the procedure each day I was fully awake I would look at what was done in the mirror. I'm finally getting to my question. So after the procedure was over on Day 1 did you not eventually go back to where you were staying and look at what had been done that day and see where the proposed hairline would be . Since work had been done behind the hairline on Day 1 and assuming the frontal hairline area was still untouched and planned for Day 2 - did you not look at the marked area that night under no sedation and determine if there was any question of its location why didn't you raise a question the following morning on Day 2 prior to the actual final front hairline work being done. This is why I mention the above quote where it states the only time you ever saw Dr Umar in person was during preop on Day 1 when your hairline was being drawn out when you were there for 2 days. Why didnt you mention concerns of the proposed hairline location on Day 2 ? The problem is that you are making some serious accusations and personally for me having gone through this myself I can presume that you were not sedated from the start of Day 1 when you state your judgement was impaired ALL the way through that night until the morning of Day 2 when you were getting prepped again for your second procedure. I suspect there was a 10-12 hour period of time in which you had time to review things before the next mornings procedure. I ask this from a patients perspective : Did you not look at both the transplanted area that night after Day 1 when you were not sedated and review the proposed hairline location that was planned for Day 2? You are leading to believe that you had no time after the hairline design was drawn in on Day1 to review the proposed frontal hairline location with a clear mind and this is what seems to be puzzling since this critical phase of the work was done on Day 2 when you could have spoken to Dr Umar that morning prior to the procedure if there were concerns. Having been there myself this is what puzzles me.

Hairguy, Having been through this process many times at the same office , same meds, processes , forms etc I have tried to walk myself through the process you have stated that you went through on these two days. I keep trying to answer my own questions as to how you didn't know where your hairline was going to be on the day that it was transplanted when it was clearly drawn out for you on the first day as seen in the pics posted by Dr Umar. Again I have been there and done that so this is why I keep finding myself asking questions that aren't clear. My biggest question is this . You finished up your procedure on day 1 which consisted of the hairline being drawn in / and the work had been started in the frontal scalp area behind the new hairline mark and afterwards you went to wherever you were staying that night. I always stayed at the hotel across the street so that I could walk to the office the next morning . Even though you have made mention many times of your sedation problems during your preop workup/design you must have woke up at some point prior to the following days procedure. So when you went home/hotel or wherever you stayed that night and looked at what had been done that day and saw the work that had been done that day and the location of the drawn in hairline - why didnt you ask Dr Umar the next day before the actual hairline transplant started about your concerns with the hairline design. I know as a pharmacist / a patient/ and logically that the peak effect of these meds wear off generally after 10-12 hours after receiving them. I know that from my own experience I went back to my room and looked at my work in the mirror in my hotel room numerous times that night. I guess my question is this : Did you not look that night at the both the transplanted area that was done on Day 1 and the proposed hairline area that had been drawn for Day 2 when you got in or at least prior to the next mornings procedure? You state that you were oversedated when the hairline design work was drawn in and you dont remember approving it - but were you still sedated all night /when you got up the next morning / took a shower etc / and while making your trip back to the office for Day 2 work on the hairline? Again I'm not trying to give you a hard time but honestly having been through this myself there are areas of this that are simply very difficult to understand in terms of your comprehension of what your final hairline design would be on Day 2 and how much input you had in finalizing it when the actual hairline work was to begin on Day 2.

HairGuy I say this in a somewhat spiteful way but you should be ashamed of yourself for this. The hairline Dr Umar gave you is not what even I would call aggressive. He removed your temporal recession which in my opinion is what pronounces hair loss and he gave you a very nice design. I have gone through that same preop procedure at least 20+ times over the last 5-7 years with Dr Umar. I along with many others have sat in the same seat as you in Dr Umar's surgical chair same with the same mirror for pre-op confirmation and all of the remaining preoperative instructions. You have a great looking head of hair in the attached photo which I personally will tell you that I am somewhat jealous of to be able to start with. You have tried in your other pics to look as if you have no hair to work with. For you to be able to start with hair like that and simply not be able to wait another 3-4 months for growth/maturation is simply unbelievable to me. If for any reason after the reasonable time period requested by Dr Umar - if you had any concerns he would have addressed them if he felt that it was needed. Am I saying that as ' a fan '. NO - I'm saying that as a patient. I am a pharmacist as well with a doctorate degree and 16 years of clinical practice in a level 2 trauma center. I know the effects and intents of each of the preop medications and I can tell you furthermore that I have taken those same preop medications on each of my visits to have restoration work done. I can only wish you the best. I will tell you this. You had better be very careful with the guidance of care that you are currently under because he is trying to use you as a marketing tool .He has a history of it but you are simply his next victim. You dont know his history and he has pawned you off making you look VERY VERY poorly. A part of me feels a bit sorry for you to be quite honest. As a veteran of 20 + years trying to get my hair restored and finally getting that acheived by Dr Umar - I can assure you there is very little else you can say on this forum after seeing these pics that you are going to get the sympathy you are looking for. Take care! This is a total waste of everyone's time

HairGuy, Thank you for clarifying the starting point for your marked 5cm area. I was hoping that you would provide your thoughts on dimension analysis for the photo I posted but I did not see where you commented on that. I know that the 5cm hairline has been an issue from the start. I measured my hairline from eyebrow (mid portion) to the starting point of the hairline and it is exactly 5cm at the peak. I can assure you that stating a 5cm hairline is too low is not appropriate Regarding being compensated by anyone I can assure you that I have paid DEARLY for my restoration. I actually took out a 2nd mortgage on my home years back when I began my repair work with Dr Umar for the sole purpose of restoring my hair/head so that I could move on with my life . I knew the cost would be high but I was willing to make that move. And please note that I was actually finally able to pay that 2nd mortgage off last January 2012 when I sold my house and I'm glad thats behind me. I got my hair back and no 2nd mortgage - WIN WIN. Regarding seeing a previous M.D. You have done your homework and I've pretty well documented that over the past 7 years on the forums. But you should have stated M.D's before Dr Umar. The strip damage started in 1997 with those darn plug grafts from Nu-Hart in Pennsylvania, then Elliott & True in Maryland , then Greco in Florida. By that time the strip scars on my head were stretched so severely and the hair looked awful. I then had to wear a hairpiece for 14 years but I did go to an M.D in Georgia (and he may be the very one that asked you to write in this post) to see if I had previous work by Dr Umar. He placed grafts in front of my hairpiece . And yes they grew in well in front of my hairpiece but eventually we had to remove those grafts when my hairline restoration phase began because of the angulation of the hair needed for the hairpiece . I also had white dots from the punch grafts that had to be filled in. (That was discussed in detail on another forum back in 2007- we dont need to go there). I feel sure that is no longer an issue as it was back then. Again I just wish you had let your hair mature but we all have to make our own decisions as to what is best. Thank you again for clarifying the starting point for your 5cm mark in the attached pic. I'm going to attach the pic again for the last time what 5cm from eyebrow looks like grown out. It drastically reduces the forehead exposure along with the closed temples- but again that is my opinion only .

I would like to know from what point the 5cm mark was drawn here on this photo? Allegations have been made by HairGuy that a 5cm hairline is asymmetrical/unnatural and obviously detrimental and in this case has caused him to make drastic measures to reverse even though reversal methods were used in a timespan that was not appropriate to allow full maturation of growth.. For those that answered my question above regarding my hairline dimension (in cm) I will provide the actual dimensions once Hairguy responds with his analysis. And Hairguy you should look at the Georgia Medical Board as mentioned by Atticus above for your M.D.that is encouraging your measures here. You seem to be trying very hard to contact boards of medicine to make complaints - you should probably start by reviewing the medical board review for the M.D that is overseeing your own care.

I'm not going to let this one go so I would like Hairguy to review my photo (or anyone else if Hairguy decides he does not want to reply). When looking at my pic attached what is the dimension of my hairline (in cm) from my eyebrows and the center of my hairline starting point? Since a 5cm hairline has been eluded too as a detrimental hairline I think this is important.

Hairguy, One of the your biggest concerns and issues here is the hairline dimensions ; namely 5cm and the fact that it is ' too low' I have two questions You are using 5cm as your example of too aggressive and too low. 1) In the attached photo of myself can you tell how low my hairline is ? ( Honestly I just went a took out a measuring tape from the sewing room to measure so I know the exact measurements to the lowest point of my hairline). 2) From exactly what point are you using as your starting point to determine 5cm . (example: is the starting point directly above your eyebrows?) I am very curious to know what you think the measurements are of my photo for the hairline?