Should We Remove Dr. Diep?

[Zoomster]

To be honest that last case regarding the 20 year old frightened me and I really felt for the poor kid .

It appears that Dr Dieps position as a recommended surgeon on this forum is now untenable.

Its not really a case should he be removed ..he has to be .

[Z--]

Here’s a query:

If the results from Diep’s office — successes and failures included — had come from a Turkish clinic, would that clinic be on the recommended list?

I fully support removal. 

[Gasthoerer]

Leaving all the politics of the HT industry aside my opinion is and has been for a long time (please check my posting history):

- I would not recommend Diep to anyone and therefore would remove him from the list

Why?

- I do not even take into account the "rumors" of too many poor results, cause this "statistics" are heaviliy flawed/subjective and cannot be trusted unfortunately

- I also do not take into account " accusation" of poor strip scars as I did not research enough results to have an opinon

- I also do not take "putting patient to sleep" or other discussions into acount as I have not formed an opinion yet

- My opinion is purely based on the technique used not being state of the art in the industry: (missing) hairline micro-irregularities (which I stated several times), poor donor management (size of punch, extraction pattern). Plus I also think hairline marko design is often poor, granting this is partly subjective. 

 

 

[Fue3361]

4 hours ago, hotrod999 said:

I don’t think general anesthesia being the “golden standard” would be a good thing for the hair transplant industry. It poses unnecessary risk to the patient & would certainly increase the cost greatly (specifically in the US). Perhaps an option for someone who wants it, but gold standard.. I don’t see that ever happening. Imagine hair mills using this if it was the golden standard, that’s a scary thought. 

I can agree with that.  I think it was a semantic thing.  I think that it's the best way to do a HT, but that doesn't mean that I think it should be the "standard practice".  I expressed myself badly.

But I don't think it should be viewed as a "bad thing", or as a "deal breaker".  It can definitely be a good thing.

[jjsrader]

Shame on this Dr.  Greed got to him & he is unethically practicing medicine & surgery (do no harm).

He should be sued to the point of abject poverty to balance & pay for what he continues to do; again - he KNOWS better and deserves to be held liable for his actions. 

It's an orgy of evidence & compelling facts that speak to his lack of patient care on nearly all fronts.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by jjsrader

[Pbaird98]

Looks like the community has spoken, his days here are numbered…

[Wallaby_Upstairs]

Apologies for the late reply. @Melvin I did not abandon our discussion, I ran into a 6 post limit and couldn't respond, though I didn't think I need to, the response from the HRN community was incredible. I was anticipating support, but I wasn't expecting it to be unanimous regarding my concerns with Dr Diep.

Melvin wanted people to continue the discussion into this thread but I do not want to reply to Melvin's response here. There is a rhythm of users each making their voices heard and as a mod it wouldn't it doesn't seem informationally efficient to continue our discussion here, and I don't think a full response is even needed on HRN as I doubt there will be interest. Melvin I know you don't want to post on our subreddit, so I'll post the response on the /r/HairTransplantNetwork where we can work out our differences, and if anyone is really curious they can follow the discussion.

I will make a separate thread here of points that I think are relevant to the HRN community, but the point-to-point nitty gritty, I'll post in your subreddit where you are a moderator and have full control over the discussion.

Apologies to @BaldLivesMatter , I got your story completely wrong, it was a failure on my part. If I may have your permission, I would like to include your compelling pushback along with HRN's leadership's response on my post. BaldLivesMatter pointed to something else flaws in my post, for anyone who is not familiar with Melvin, it absolutely makes him look one-dimensional. When writing the post, I had the HRN audience in mind, but when the post is used in a sticky, you'll get people who are not familiar with HRN and they will not get the most accurate picture of Melvin.

To be clear, I stand by my original post, but people should also know that not only has he spent hours on your forum, but he has also spent hours on my subreddit helping people for free. Reddit doesn't pay Melvin. His profile is here

I deeply appreciated it, which makes our differences so frustrating. I have always respected Melvin as a person.

The night before thanksgiving someone posted a long critique of Melvin on my subreddit. It was a weird a spot, where removing the thread would fall towards the censorship side of moderating, but Melvin shouldn't use his vacation to do PR for HRN. The morning of Thanksgiving Melvin got a reply in, and that's when I locked the thread so that he would get the last word in until the holidays were over, and then I unlocked it but at that point neither party was interesting in the discussion. Looking back, I should have just removed the thread and told him to wait until after thanksgiving.

If I could do it again, I would front load what I appreciate about Melvin. My post was already pretty long, but in hindsight I think it would have given a more accurate impression of where my frustrations were coming from.

Finally, can we talk about how amazing it is to have your voices heard? When I started reading Melvin's response, my heart sank, because I figured it would end in the status quo. But then he pulled a M Night Shamalon and allowed a poll. I don't know if that was what he was going for, but he got me.

Anyways, go to HRN's subreddit /r/HairTransplantNetwork for my boring nitty gritty reply and hopefully a further discussion between Me and Melvin. Parts of his response that are relevant to HRN and the broader hair transplant community will go in a separate thread on this forum.

[Al - Moderator]

I vote to remove Dr Diep.

There was a time when he was doing very good work and probably deserved to be on the recommended list, however over the past few years his work has certainly gotten sloppy and lately it seems he is now desperate to work on anyone who shows up to his office no matter if they are candidates for surgery or not. This is not the type of Dr/clinic that this community should be showcasing as one of the elite Drs in the world as it is clear that he no longer is.

Unlike some others I can understand why it has taken so long to get to this point. When you have a Dr doing good work, it is easy to push aside a couple of bad results that get posted with the thinking that even the best Drs are not perfect and will get a small percentage of bad results. However there now seems to be many more bad results than good results which clearly means he should not be on this community's recommended list any longer.

 

[JayLDD]

6 hours ago, Gasthoerer said:

Leaving all the politics of the HT industry aside my opinion is and has been for a long time (please check my posting history):

- I would not recommend Diep to anyone and therefore would remove him from the list

Why?

- I do not even take into account the "rumors" of too many poor results, cause this "statistics" are heaviliy flawed/subjective and cannot be trusted unfortunately

- I also do not take into account " accusation" of poor strip scars as I did not research enough results to have an opinon

- I also do not take "putting patient to sleep" or other discussions into acount as I have not formed an opinion yet

- My opinion is purely based on the technique used not being state of the art in the industry: (missing) hairline micro-irregularities (which I stated several times), poor donor management (size of punch, extraction pattern). Plus I also think hairline marko design is often poor, granting this is partly subjective. 

 

 

Totally agree and think this is the most sensible rationalization I’ve seen.

 

 

[ray35]

I also at this point would not recommend Diep given what's been displayed and that 20 year old in particular. In looking and reading more about Diep, I land on the he should not be a recommended surgeon on here.

I understand that not every result is a home run and there are variables, but one thing I've felt about the surgeon list here (and yes I understand the pay to be listed aspect) was that it had more vetted credibility than say the ISHRS or those other acronyms. That credibility is put into question keeping a person like Diep on here given these issues.

That said I don't envy the mods in this task, the metrics for removal could open a can of worms of demands for removal after a couple sub par results and given the variables it's always tough to know.

But with Diep I've seen enough to go ahead and endorse the idea of adios. Perhaps have a road back available but as it stands that kind of work can't be recommended here, something has changed there from the earlier days of better success and standards.

[Aurelius]

It's been a while since I've been on here but I see that I've been tagged on this thread.

My experience with Dr. Diep has been good and I have voted "no" based solely on my own experience.

You can view my first FUT procedure on my previous posts. I was thrilled with the results and I still look 15 years younger than before the procedure. I had a second FUT procedure one year later for my crown area which yielded significantly fewer grafts. This resulted in some minor improvement but not as much as we had hoped for. Dr. Diep refunded a meaningful portion of the fee. If I had waited another year I may have had a better graft yield with a looser scalp. No harm done, it is was it is. Dr. Diep has always been above-board regarding risks and expectations with me. 

Two years after my second procedure (now 61) I have recently been speaking with Dr. Diep about a possible FUE procedure to fill out the crown area. I can't actually see the back of my head   so it has not been a top priority, but I will likely get it done with either Dr. Diep or another doctor. I'll being doing my homework on FUE to see what my options are.  I would say that even if I don't get a final procedure for the crown, and even though my second FUT procedure did not turn out as well as we hoped, I remain extremely pleased with the first FUT procedure. My hair and hairline look great, scar is unnoticeable, and I still get lots of nice comments from friends and family especially when we are looking at old pictures     

 

[HappyMan2021]

3 minutes ago, Aurelius said:

based solely on my own experience

I appreciate the emphasis on this lol. 

Not even related to Diep, but in general I've found there are a few forum members on here who went to bad clinics and simply got really really lucky with their HT results, or they got hair transplants when they didnt even have MPB in the first place - and they share their experiences as if they are the oracles of truth and their lottery ticket results and experience is espoused as if it is a foundational truth that we all need to follow. 

So I appreciate when patients are open-minded enough to acknowledge that their experience and results may be the exception, not the rule. 

[Henry]

21 hours ago, g8n2h9k3u7 said:

Well, you should keep in mind that the reputation of Dr. Diep is not the only thing on the line here. The reputation of HRN, or at least the reputation of its list of approved surgeons, is on the line as well. After all, if Diep remains on the list when he doesn't deserve to belong there, then the list loses all meaning.

Essentially: are you willing to risk sacrificing the reputation of HRN to save the reputation of Diep?

This is a little bit off topic but, does the list really mean anything anymore? I've spent a lot of time in these forums and I've seen some recommended doctors have 1 positive review FROM A PATIENT in 5 years and still be an elite coalition member. Now I don't know how administrators do things behind the scenes but, one positive review in the last 5 years doesnt really scream "reliable doctor" to me. I think this whole recommendation thing needs an overhaul. 

[Aurelius]

Thank you for that. Yes, I am just a data point.
I wish that all of us could have A+ results for every procedure.

[HappyMan2021]

1 minute ago, Henry said:

I've spent a lot of time in these forums and I've seen some recommended doctors have 1 positive review FROM A PATIENT in 5 years and still be an elite coalition member

names? maybe they should get the boot too.

[Henry]

2 minutes ago, HappyMan2021 said:

names? maybe they should get the boot too.

No no no, lol, I don't wanna get in trouble. They don't have bad reviews, and the clinic posts results frequently enough. The one good result for years that isn't posted by the clinic is what bothers me. 

[Melvin- Admin]

4 hours ago, ray35 said:

That said I don't envy the mods in this task, the metrics for removal could open a can of worms of demands for removal after a couple sub par results and given the variables it's always tough to know.

Yes, I considered the fact this could lead to lynch mob scenarios. But I trust our community and senior members know how to discern the difference between a subpar result and a dip in consistency and ethical issues. 

We always allow surgeons some time to rectify the situation and prove their consistency before removing them. I want to make it clear that we are not in the business of appeasing lynch mobs. I have given this a lot of thought before Wallaby created that thread.

This thread was not created to serve as a salem witch hunt. So those interested, put away your pitchforks, it’s not gonna happen. 
 

[Matt3210]

I agree that doctors are only human and everyone has poorer results in their history. What distinguishes the best doctors from the weaker ones is that the poorer results are single cases over the years. It happens more often in the weaker ones. Just as we should applaud and praise doctors for great results, criticism is also needed when something goes wrong to make doctors more responsible. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Matt3210

[baldlivesmatter]

Might have to remove this guy's pic (John i believe?) from the front page since he's one of Diep's more famous homeruns.

Part of the annoying thing about Diep is he can produce homerun results like John's, but these are then offset by questionable practices and shoddy results.

Ultimately the forum quality doesn't come down to how we celebrate home run results, but to what extent we tolerate unacceptable results.

 

 

[HappyMan2021]

1 hour ago, baldlivesmatter said:

Ultimately the forum quality doesn't come down to how we celebrate home run results, but to what extent we tolerate unacceptable results.

 

I agree. 

Due to the low supply and overwhelming demand for hair transplants, even the worst clinics get enough volume of patients that statistically speaking they are bound to get some good results here and there. 

Clinics should be reviewed based on a historical pattern of reviews, not the oddball homeruns, which even the most unscrupulous hairmills are able to pull off from time to time.  

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, baldlivesmatter said:

Might have to remove this guy's pic (John i believe?) from the front page since he's one of Diep's more famous homeruns.

Part of the annoying thing about Diep is he can produce homerun results like John's, but these are then offset by questionable practices and shoddy results.

Ultimately the forum quality doesn't come down to how we celebrate home run results, but to what extent we tolerate unacceptable results.

 

 

To be fair, Diep was not producing the one-off oddball home runs years ago. He churned out cases like these consistently, which is why he was recommended in the first place. That said, no one can rest on their laurels. Consistency must continue. I will give it until tomorrow before moving forward with the communities decision. 

[Bronamath123]

Diep sucked even back in 2016, good riddance.

[Skyb]

I had a 3 year follow up with Dr Diep a few months ago. He asked me  for permission to film a few You Tube clips to highlight my Ht I gladly agreed since I was pleased with my result. I joked and said “are you uploading these this Friday? He replied he has patient testimonies backed up 2 years time. Diep is the only one showing receipts He is the only HT Dr who has thousands of real patient videos and consistently uploads weekly from blacks, trans, Indian/Asians and dorks like me lol.

Removing Dr Diep off this Forum is like kicking Jeter off the Yankees. I vote No 

 

[AlexMeister21]

1 hour ago, Skyb said:

I had a 3 year follow up with Dr Diep a few months ago. He asked me  for permission to film a few You Tube clips to highlight my Ht I gladly agreed since I was pleased with my result. I joked and said “are you uploading these this Friday? He replied he has patient testimonies backed up 2 years time. Diep is the only one showing receipts He is the only HT Dr who has thousands of real patient videos and consistently uploads weekly from blacks, trans, Indian/Asians and dorks like me lol.

Removing Dr Diep off this Forum is like kicking Jeter off the Yankees. I vote No 

 

If Jeter starts snorting blow and skipping practice and phoning it in because he won the World Series for the Yankees 5 years ago, then sure, kick him off. 

[A Fue Good Men]

Boot him. Let’s keep our standards high for this community.