BHT - 610 grafts with Dr Robert Dorin

[Al - Moderator]

I only had 610 grafts taken from my beard area on this particular surgery. The grafts were placed in the frontal and mid scalp areas. I wasn't sure if I should create a topic for it since it is such a small procedure on a large area. However I've been getting lots of questions, so I decided to post it all here as I do think there will be some good information about using beard grafts and how well it heals.

This is my beard the night before the procedure. I had already had nearly 2400 grafts taken from this area in prior sessions, so this is what my beard looks like with that many already grafts already gone from the beard. If you look closely you can see a lot of tiny white dots, but it's not noticeable unless you are really looking for it. Also notice that I can still grow a beard even after nearly 2400 grafts have been removed.

 

 

 

Here is what my hair loss looked like the morning of surgery just before leaving the hotel to go to the Drs office. I know it looks bad. I had my first hair transplant approximately 33 years ago. I would be completely bald everywhere except for a thin fringe going all the way around my head. A lot of what is there now is body hair from my beard and chest. The goal for todays surgery is to get some thickness/density in the frontal half, so the plan is to concentrate on that area and strategically place grafts where we think they will benefit me most as far as overall physical improvement.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

More coming soon.

 

 

 

 

[SamV7]

This is interesting! you had your first HT 33 years ago, may I ask how old you are now? and was your first HT done using FUT?

 

[Al - Moderator]

I should add that I'm not doing this to make BHT look good or bad. I'm going to post about everything, good and bad, so you can decide for yourself. However I am just 1 example of BHT, so whether you end up thinking this is good or not, please search for other examples before making any decisions on what to do in your own situation.

In most of my posts about BHT on this forum I say it works well and the hair softens and matches the native hair over time. While I absolutely do believe that, at least in my case, I will say I'm probably (more than probably) much easier on BHT than some others would be. This is because I haven't had much hair in so long that I really can't tell what it's supposed to match with and just having more hair in some areas where there wasn't for years, to me, is a nice improvement. However I can understand how others would be much more critical of what results should look like. So as I said, I'm just going to put everything here and let you all decide how you feel.

 

[Al - Moderator]

11 minutes ago, SamV7 said:

This is interesting! you had your first HT 33 years ago, may I ask how old you are now? and was your first HT done using FUT?

 

 

My first hair transplant was September, 1989. I was 22 years old and I was between a NW 5 and NW 6 at the time. I'm 54 now. It was FUT, but the grafts were cut from the strip in 3.75mm sections, so I had 3.75mm punch holes removed from the recipient and the plugs from the strip placed in the holes. I also had a scalp reduction done at the same time. Yes I had a scalp reduction and a FUT strip at the same surgery. Amazingly my FUT scars aren't all that wide. So the first surgery was 60 grafts 3.75mm each and a scalp reduction. The orginal plan was to have 2 scalp reductions and 300 grafts in a total of 4 surgeries. The surgeries in those days were spaced 6 weeks apart, so 6 weeks after the first one I had the 2nd one. I should make an entire new topic just about all that!

 

EDIT: Oops, so that's 32 years ago, not 33

Edited December 20, 2021 by BeHappy

[Al - Moderator]

I got there at about 7:30 AM and was done somewhere between 3:30 PM and 4 PM. We were originally going to do another session of chest and abdomen, but I felt for some time that I still had plenty of beard grafts, so I let my beard grow for about 6 days. My beard hair under my chin is mostly gray (all the darker colored hairs were taken in earlier sessions since those are easier to see). The pocedure was on Monday, so I dyed my hair (beard, scalp, and chest/abdomen) on Saturday and again on Sunday to make sure they all showed up good. I wish I took more pics during the procedure, but here is what I have.

This is at 10:58 AM almost halfway through beard graft extraction. We took a short break, so I could go to the bathroom and I think the Dr likes to stop for a bit every once in a while to give his hands and fingers a rest anyway.

 

 

Here is the 2nd break maybe two thirds to 3 quarters extracted. The time is 11:35 AM. We didn't do very much since the last break, but I think Dr Dorin may have had a phone call. I can't remember. In any event he was called away, but the techs were still there to remove grafts and check them while he was out of the room.

 

 

OK. Lunch time. It's 1:36 PM. Graft extraction is done and the techs are checking the remaining grafts and getting a final count. When you arrive in the morning they let you pick your lunch from a list of items. I chose the chicken parm sandwich. Other choices were some wraps, soups, a salad, etc. I can't remember everything that was on it. Then they have it delivered.

 

 

After lunch Dr Dorin starts making the incisions for where to place the grafts. We got 610 grafts. I was hoping for closer to 800, but I'm looking on the bright side and thinking I haven't touched the chest and abdomen at all today, so I know I still have all those left to place in the back half next time. He placed a few in the hairline at my request due to a spot that I really never liked. In a bit he discusses with me where exactly to place the last few grafts as he covered the areas he felt were the most needed. I tell him to put them in the front center to try to thicken the frontal center tuft a bit, so he does that. Then the techs start placing the grafts.

 

Once I got back to the hotel, which was a couple of blocks away, I took some pictures. These are all taken within two hours of the procedure back at my hotel.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2021 by BeHappy

[Ganderson]

Thanks so much for sharing! 
 

So you’ve taken a total of 3000 from your beard, after this current procedure? And it looks like it’s all from chin and below? 
 

how many grafts total do you have on top of your scalp?

 

thanks again for all of the detail here. It’s super interesting and I’m sure you’ll have a nice result 

[Al - Moderator]

10 minutes ago, Ganderson said:

Thanks so much for sharing!

You are welcome. More is coming tomorrow.

 

12 minutes ago, Ganderson said:

So you’ve taken a total of 3000 from your beard, after this current procedure? And it looks like it’s all from chin and below? 

Yes. I don't have any useable scalp donor

 

12 minutes ago, Ganderson said:

how many grafts total do you have on top of your scalp?

From the BHT repairs, it's nearly 6000. Right now it's almost split evenly between beard and chest/abdomen. If you are asking about the total including the FUT ones long ago, I'd have to check my notes. I'll get back to you on that. But most of them have since fallen out anyway. My hair loss has progressed past some of the FUT scars. You can see one of the scars easily in the before photo of the back of my head. I'd say maybe 80% of what I have growing on top now is BHT. Some areas are 100% BHT and some are maybe 50%.

 

 

[Al - Moderator]

There was a topic on this forum asking what time of year people thought was the best time to have a hair transplant. My answer was if you live in an area that has cold Winters, then you want to do it at the beginning of the Winter, so you can get away with wearing hoodies or hats most of the time you go out during the ugly duckling stage and nobody will suspect a thing. Besides that, it's so cold in Winter that you can tell anyone that you don't really want to go out because it's too cold and most people will accept that excuse as they have all used it before too.

I went for a walk around Manhattan New York to see Christmas lights on Monday evening. This was only a few hours after the surgery. Look at this picture. Nobody would know anything and everyone else is basically dressed the same way.

 

 

[Ganderson]

34 minutes ago, BeHappy said:

You are welcome. More is coming tomorrow.

 

Yes. I don't have any useable scalp donor

 

From the BHT repairs, it's nearly 6000. Right now it's almost split evenly between beard and chest/abdomen. If you are asking about the total including the FUT ones long ago, I'd have to check my notes. I'll get back to you on that. But most of them have since fallen out anyway. My hair loss has progressed past some of the FUT scars. You can see one of the scars easily in the before photo of the back of my head. I'd say maybe 80% of what I have growing on top now is BHT. Some areas are 100% BHT and some are maybe 50%.

 

 

Super informative post. You and I have obviously been discussing this directly but I’m glad we can share it on a thread. You have hair everywhere now… have you considered SMP? I don’t know how your hair looks buzzed down but you have hair everywhere …. I would imagine that you would have the perfect and most natural SMP outcome since, well, it would really be SMP… you would actually and TRULY have a very dense  buzz cut

[Ganderson]

Btw…. I’m trying to do the math - when did you have your first HT? You don’t look like your age my friend! 

[digi23]

44 minutes ago, Ganderson said:

Btw…. I’m trying to do the math - when did you have your first HT? You don’t look like your age my friend! 

Me neither, it looks like he is 35, but he did his first HT 33 years ago. So he was 2.

Have you ever thought about just shave it and go for a cleaner look? You are a good looking dude, to be honest I think you would pull off the bald look great. Maybe because of the FUT scar? 

Edited December 20, 2021 by digi23

[Ganderson]

42 minutes ago, digi23 said:

Me neither, it looks like he is 35, but he did his first HT 33 years ago. So he was 2.

Have you ever thought about just shave it and go for a cleaner look? You are a good looking dude, to be honest I think you would pull off the bald look great. Maybe because of the FUT scar? 

This was my exact thought process. He’s good looking. And looks my age (I’m more than 20 years younger if our math is right). SMP with that level of hair and he has a lot of options and will look very good. Pretty good spot to be in…

[Melvin- Admin]

@BeHappy 

Would you be willing to share a montage of your full journey. I don't think the community can appreciate just how incredible this change has been thus far, in comparison to how you looked 10 years ago. I would say with some toppik you would look non-balding. 

[stephcurry30]

Good luck friend. It's amazing how far hair transplants have come and wish there was more knowledge in the medical fields decades ago! Best wishes my friend!

[Al - Moderator]

19 hours ago, Ganderson said:

Btw…. I’m trying to do the math - when did you have your first HT? You don’t look like your age my friend! 

 

18 hours ago, digi23 said:

Me neither, it looks like he is 35, but he did his first HT 33 years ago. So he was 2.

 

Haha. Thank you both! I always had a young looking face. Unfortunately the very early extreme hair loss ruined the entire look. If I never had the hair problem I would have had all kinds of hot babes after me back in my 20s and 30s. Whenever someone says having hair does not change your life or solve all your problems I just cringe. Uhh.... yeah.. it would have solved my problems. It's not fun being 20 and trying to hit on a girl the same age as me or even a few years older and have her tell you she doesn't date guys older than her dad. Or when they literally run away screaming about the old guy who thinks he should have someone 25 years younger than he is. Or when there's a mother and daughter and the guy I'm hanging out with tells me he will go for the 20 year old and I should take the 45 year old because she is closer to my age... yet the guy telling me this was several years older than me. Or when I finally did get a date with someone the same age as me and I get told I'm robbing the cradle, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Al - Moderator]

19 hours ago, digi23 said:

Have you ever thought about just shave it and go for a cleaner look? You are a good looking dude, to be honest I think you would pull off the bald look great. Maybe because of the FUT scar?

 

18 hours ago, Ganderson said:

This was my exact thought process. He’s good looking. And looks my age (I’m more than 20 years younger if our math is right). SMP with that level of hair and he has a lot of options and will look very good. Pretty good spot to be in…

 

I have many rows of FUT scars. Back then a new scar was created each time. I also have lots of punch scarring all over on top because I had hundreds of 3mm to 4mm areas (don't remember the exact size) between grafts punched out and sewn closed to try to lessen the space between the grafts which just ended up leaving me with punch graft scars all over the top of my head between the grafts. I also ended up with 5 scalp reductions, although I think now just about all of those are completely covered in transplanted grafts. So with all that, shaving my head was never a real option I wanted to try.

If you want to know why I didn't just shave my head early on, you have to understand that back in the 1980s shaving your head wasn't something that was done. That would have gotten me labeled as a neo nazi skinhead and be worse than having a horsehoe NW7 bald fringe all around. That was a different time, so it wasn't something I even thought about trying back in those days.

Could I do SMP now? Maybe. It's something I think about. I did wear a hair piece before having the hair transplant and that was something I really hated. I just felt so fake. It made me sick constantly wondering if someone could tell and the worry that if anyone found out and told everyone then what would be the point. That wouldn't be fooling anyone. So I kind of feel like SMP is going to put me through the same feelings and it wouldn't be something I can just remove if I had to. That's also why I don't use any concealer.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by BeHappy

[Al - Moderator]

This is on Tuesday, so 1 day post op. This is before going back to the Drs office Tuesday morning and getting the next day checkup. The picture of the top came out all blurry, so I'm just posting the beard area.

 

[Al - Moderator]

This is 2 days post op on Wednesday December 8. This shows what we did in the corners and a close-up of some grafts on the hairline. The hairline grafts will be interesting to see how they grow out because everyone says never to do that. I think it will be fine because I have already been parting my hair on the side through all BHT grafts and I don't have a big issue. It's not perfect, but it sure is better than not having hair to make a part at all!

 

 

 

[Al - Moderator]

Some shots from 2 days post op of the beard. This is Wednesday, December 8

 

 

 

 

[Ganderson]

2 hours ago, BeHappy said:

 

 

2 hours ago, BeHappy said:

 

 

I have many rows of FUT scars. Back then a new scar was created each time. I also have lots of punch scarring all over on top because I had hundreds of 3mm to 4mm areas (don't remember the exact size) between grafts punched out and sewn closed to try to lessen the space between the grafts which just ended up leaving me with punch graft scars all over the top of my head between the grafts. I also ended up with 5 scalp reductions, although I think now just about all of those are completely covered in transplanted grafts. So with all that, shaving my head was never a real option I wanted to try.

If you want to know why I didn't just shave my head early on, you have to understand that back in the 1980s shaving your head wasn't something that was done. That would have gotten me labeled as a neo nazi skinhead and be worse than having a horsehoe NW7 bald fringe all around. That was a different time, so it wasn't something I even thought about trying back in those days.

Could I do SMP now? Maybe. It's something I think about. I did wear a hair piece before having the hair transplant and that was something I really hated. I just felt so fake. It made me sick constantly wondering if someone could tell and the worry that if anyone found out and told everyone then what would be the point. That wouldn't be fooling anyone. So I kind of feel like SMP is going to put me through the same feelings and it wouldn't be something I can just remove if I had to. That's also why I don't use any concealer.

 

 

you and I are very similar in this regard. Let me just pose this to you and I’m curious to know your thoughts.

im a diffuse thinner and I had SMP done in 2017 (was shaving my head with a 0 guard back then but hated when my gf took pictures and I could see a difference between the top and the sides) - and I went through the exact same thought process as you mentioned above for a few days after I did it.

”how the hell, would I, ever explain to someone that there’s ink all over my head” it sounded crazy - but here’s the difference 

it didn’t matter at all - and this is just my personal experience - because I HAD HAIR all over. Not a lot, but like we have discussed, enough to say that I have hair. In the absolute worst case, yes, if someone analyzed my head from 1cm away … I mean even then it’s hard cause there’s still hair but let’s say it was noticed - all you did was “make my hair fuller because I didn’t like having the thin look, I still have hair but just wanted to make it look a bit more classy professional whatever” 

my point to all this is that you’ve eliminated the “oh it’s just a tattoo on your head” type deal. You have hair everywhere! 

[Ganderson]

2 hours ago, BeHappy said:

 

 

Haha. Thank you both! I always had a young looking face. Unfortunately the very early extreme hair loss ruined the entire look. If I never had the hair problem I would have had all kinds of hot babes after me back in my 20s and 30s. Whenever someone says having hair does not change your life or solve all your problems I just cringe. Uhh.... yeah.. it would have solved my problems. It's not fun being 20 and trying to hit on a girl the same age as me or even a few years older and have her tell you she doesn't date guys older than her dad. Or when they literally run away screaming about the old guy who thinks he should have someone 25 years younger than he is. Or when there's a mother and daughter and the guy I'm hanging out with tells me he will go for the 20 year old and I should take the 45 year old because she is closer to my age... yet the guy telling me this was several years older than me. Or when I finally did get a date with someone the same age as me and I get told I'm robbing the cradle, etc, etc, etc.

 

I’m surprised to hear that. And sorry! Maybe that was the reaction in the 80’s. I know plenty of bald guys my age (early 30’s). You would look 35 with or without hair right now. 

[Al - Moderator]

December 10. This is 4 days post op. I apologize if I'm posting too many pics for you. My beard area is a bit yellowish. I think this is from the Aquaphor I'm putting on it. It really reduces the itchiness and seems to help clear up the redness faster. You can see my beard looks like I can probably still grow a half decent beard even with about 3000 grafts removed. I can probably get a few hundred more grafts out of this still.

I'm adding on top view too with my hair wet and pushed away so you can see what that looks like. I been using a Liposomal ATP spray on the area. I don't know if it helps with growth, but it does keep the scalp wet and really helps the scabs come off fast and easy.

I also put another pic of the hairline work. I'm really curious to see how that grows in 6 to 9 months.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Al - Moderator]

29 minutes ago, Ganderson said:

you and I are very similar in this regard. Let me just pose this to you and I’m curious to know your thoughts.

im a diffuse thinner and I had SMP done in 2017 (was shaving my head with a 0 guard back then but hated when my gf took pictures and I could see a difference between the top and the sides) - and I went through the exact same thought process as you mentioned above for a few days after I did it.

”how the hell, would I, ever explain to someone that there’s ink all over my head” it sounded crazy - but here’s the difference 

it didn’t matter at all - and this is just my personal experience - because I HAD HAIR all over. Not a lot, but like we have discussed, enough to say that I have hair. In the absolute worst case, yes, if someone analyzed my head from 1cm away … I mean even then it’s hard cause there’s still hair but let’s say it was noticed - all you did was “make my hair fuller because I didn’t like having the thin look, I still have hair but just wanted to make it look a bit more classy professional whatever” 

my point to all this is that you’ve eliminated the “oh it’s just a tattoo on your head” type deal. You have hair everywhere! 

 

Yes. Exactly. We talked about this in private messages too. If I was completely bald on top I would definitely not do SMP. I think it's too easy to spot as just a tattoo on your head to try to fool people and it isn't fooling them. I think it looks better in pictures than in real life. You need the 3D effect, so I think if you have at least a bit of hair all over it can look good and pass for actual fullness without anyone ever knowing.

Now that I do have hair all over I am at least considering it, although I don't think I will buzz down. I'm thinking I may like it better with my hair at my usual length and letting the darker color of the SMP give it a more full look. I've seen this done by a couple of other posters in this forum. That would give me less of a change since I'd still be growing my hair and I think that would make it an easier transition. It's still my hair just looking better.

The weird thing is that I think if I get to a point where I feel like I have enough hair for it to really work well then I'd probably feel like I don't need it. I don't know. Anyway, it is something I'm thinking about now where I wasn't interested before.

 

[Al - Moderator]

1 hour ago, Ganderson said:

I’m surprised to hear that. And sorry! Maybe that was the reaction in the 80’s. I know plenty of bald guys my age (early 30’s). You would look 35 with or without hair right now. 

 

It was a different time. Shaving back then made you an outcast. Even just having 1 or 2 tattoos was frowned on. Such a big difference than how it is today.

Just for fun... Here is me at 22 years old in 1989. This is in the chair getting ready for my first hair transplant. I wish I had more and better pictures, but there was no such thing as cell phones with cameras back then and I didn't want to be in pictures looking like I did. This one is black and white because it's a photocopy of the one the clinic took. The clinic used a polaroid instant camera to take all before and after pictures.

 

By the time shaving your head started becoming acceptable in the early to mid 90's I think, I had so many scars by then that there was no way I would do it. This one is me in 1998 at 31 years old. (9 years after the first HT). You can see all the rows of FUT scars. I count about 8 rows of them.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by BeHappy

[Ganderson]

1 hour ago, BeHappy said:

 

Yes. Exactly. We talked about this in private messages too. If I was completely bald on top I would definitely not do SMP. I think it's too easy to spot as just a tattoo on your head to try to fool people and it isn't fooling them. I think it looks better in pictures than in real life. You need the 3D effect, so I think if you have at least a bit of hair all over it can look good and pass for actual fullness without anyone ever knowing.

Now that I do have hair all over I am at least considering it, although I don't think I will buzz down. I'm thinking I may like it better with my hair at my usual length and letting the darker color of the SMP give it a more full look. I've seen this done by a couple of other posters in this forum. That would give me less of a change since I'd still be growing my hair and I think that would make it an easier transition. It's still my hair just looking better.

The weird thing is that I think if I get to a point where I feel like I have enough hair for it to really work well then I'd probably feel like I don't need it. I don't know. Anyway, it is something I'm thinking about now where I wasn't interested before.

 

makes total sense. Only suggesting it as a method of support, although i don't think you really need it! I wore my hair longer when i first got it - its very specific on what it works well for as a camouflage. If i was in a situation where i wanted to grow it longer, i would only do a lighter shaded SMP - just to reduce scalp contrast a bit - when it gets too dark I actually think its stands out more. My experience, at least. Some people seem to think almost "painting it" black if its just a spot or two is better. 

Your pics are awesome. This is the best thread ever lol so please dont stop posting them! With the popularity of beard transplants and with the way things are moving, I think this thread will be referenced for a long time to come if you continue to maintain it! 

Curious to know - at any point since you started using your beard as a transplant source - have you gotten really tan? Im a dark guy who gets significantly darker in the sun (a shade of milk chocolate if you will) - do you think those little white dots on your throat would bear significant risk if you were to go in the sun a lot? What if you were more like me? It doesnt SEEM to be an issue since theyre small, faded, and in an area that is always undergoing constant shaving so its seemingly whatever - ive always been under the impression that using beard grafts (for the things you and I have discussed) is extremely low risk.