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JeanLDD

3038 Grafts FUE / ASMED - Koray Erdogan / 30th April

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Posted (edited)

Hi Everybody.

 

I have previously had a 3000 graft FUE at ASMED 12 months ago, linked here:

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/186728-asmed-koray-erdogan-3070-grafts-april-10th.html

 

Overall very satisfied with the results from the first procedure, but still wanted to address the crown which was previously untouched, as well as density issues in some areas of the previous transplant, and create a slightly more aggressive hairline with more youthful closure at the temples, including an alteration to the overall design.

 

Some background on my situation, I was initially a NW3V diffusing in a NW5 pattern that is very noticeable when wet but not an issue dry and with longer hair, 22 years old at the time, and had stabilised on finasteride. First procedure was solely for the hairline and created a slightly conservative NW 1.5-2 with 3070 grafts. My donor had roughly 9500 grafts to begin with and I am left with potentially another 2000-3000 after the second procedure, but the clinic suggested this is impossible to know for sure unless it is analysed 12 months down the track.

 

In online consult 2000-2500 grafts were suggested for crown and frontal work, but in person Koray thought 3000 would be worthwhile to create a significant improvement in both the crown frontal third. Ultimately suggesting 1500 in the frontal third and 1500 in the crown. He also seemed impressed with the standard of my donor after the first procedure.

 

Some stats on the second procedure:

 

3038 grafts – Hair/Graft ratio: 2.1 (quite a bit lower than the first time round)

Average Hair Thickness – 50 microns

 

 

Singles - 557

Doubles - 1709

Triples - 697

Quadruples - 74

Quintuples - 1

Sextuples - 0

 

Minor points, this time I stayed at the hotel rather than the clinic and preferred it quite a bit. Very comfortable and calming, good food for very cheap prices and there's a lot of options for places to visit a quick walk away also. That said the clinic room was very convenient. Of course as with last time the clinic staff and my clinic supervisor were very accommodating. A few have mentioned forgetting to covert some Euros to Lira upon arrival to Istanbul, the clinic was happy to convert right there and for a good rate too, so don't worry about doing so at the airport.

 

Another point, from a front view and in dimmer lighting the very tight buzz the clinic bring the hair down to reflected that the previous work looked very natural and had no visible density issues, although from a top view seen in the clinic photos there's a noticeable difference in density between the areas with natives and those previously implanted. Noticed the same in cases like Yas and acegik who both went for 2nd procedures at ASMED, although not a huge issue unless you're planning to constantly having people looking at the top of your scalp. The donor scarring from the first procedure was also clearly visible when the scalp was buzzed to a zero, not that this is a problem or unexpected as one shouldn't go in assuming FUE is scarless or that they could get away with a buzz that tight to begin with. Just a point to note.

 

Hair was in significant need of a cut when going in for photos, so note it also didn't look its best by any means

Edited by JeanLDD

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Keep us updated jean.. wishin u the best.. :) u Should have good results .. n thanks for sharing ur hair transplant knowledge .. I learned a few things from ya .. happy growin bro ..

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Keep us updated jean.. wishin u the best.. :) u Should have good results .. n thanks for sharing ur hair transplant knowledge .. I learned a few things from ya .. happy growin bro ..

 

Many thanks, and I wish the same for your results when you finally get around to having yours done :)

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Congratulations on your new procedure, I trust you’ll be satisfied with your results for many years to come great choice with Dr. Erdogan.



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I do not provide medical advice, you should always seek medical advice from a doctor or qualified healthcare provider. My responses are my opinion.

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Jean, looking great.

 

You are clearly a controversial figure in this Forum, due to your age (and the amount of grafts) and your outspoken personality, but without you this Forum would be lesser in many ways.

 

Very brave to adress you personal goals and I wish you the best that you can achieve what you are looking for. Personally I would not have lowered the hairline further. But I am also older which maybe changes the perspective.

 

Grow well and thank you for your support.

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JeanLDD,

 

Consider 5mg-10mg oral minox once daily long term, PRP w/Acell on a regular basis, hair laser helmet & switching to dut for the future if you want to keep most of that existing hair for another 15-20 years.

 

I'm sure you will be making good money in your future and are well researched going forward.

 

Happy growing!

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JeanLDD,

 

Consider 5mg-10mg oral minox once daily long term, PRP w/Acell on a regular basis, hair laser helmet & switching to dut for the future if you want to keep most of that existing hair for another 15-20 years.

 

I'm sure you will be making good money in your future and are well researched going forward.

 

Happy growing!

 

Tried topical minox for a few months and had breathing issues with it so no option for oral, no trustworthy options for PRP in my country and I'm sceptical of efficacy, as with laser.

 

If it was evident I was going backwards I'd probably up my dose of finasteride first, and also try concealer if I felt it was necessary. At this point the majority of the frontal third is all transplants, so concealer only on midscalp and crown less of an issue. Also if the midscalp and crown did start thinning more at least I have the benefit of a few grafts in that area. Wouldn't say no to future transplants, or perhaps SMP for the illusion of more density when grown out, just not considering it right now.

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Jean, looking great.

 

You are clearly a controversial figure in this Forum, due to your age (and the amount of grafts) and your outspoken personality, but without you this Forum would be lesser in many ways.

 

Very brave to adress you personal goals and I wish you the best that you can achieve what you are looking for. Personally I would not have lowered the hairline further. But I am also older which maybe changes the perspective.

 

Grow well and thank you for your support.

 

Understandable point on the hairline. My thought was that the slight alteration was possible with only around 800 or so grafts which ultimately wouldn't make a significant impact on my options, but would let me avoid keeping the issue on my mind going forward in the medium term. At this point the design is exactly how I want it to be, which regardless of any micro density issues that inevitable pop up when implanting into virgin scalp was preferable to me than getting the previous area absolutely perfect. It's also hard on a first run through when looking at a buzzed head to know exactly how you want the design, and I didn't feel I had it optimal the first time round so adjustment was necessary. I've seen Spanker say there's no such thing as an emergency hair transplant, but from day 1 my plan was a first that was exactly that, but do so slightly conservatively, with a second slightly more aggressive approach like Yas opted for to get the situation off the mind for the medium term without any second thoughts down the track.

 

Thank you, many tend of opt for the opposite but I've always felt that with hairloss being a very sensitive and difficult issue for people it's better to aggressively (often literally) push an objective and analytical approach to things without any treading on eggshells. Obviously I'm a higher risk case than most and I doubt many other top surgeons would have gone through with this, but considering the money and time were there I'd have ultimately regretted not attempting to fix the issue to the greatest possible extent. A very strong donor, no thinning or family history beyond NW5 helps too.Obviously no guarantee, but a yield in the ball park of the last procedure should still put me in a very comfortable position going forward with donor to spare.

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Jean, looking great.

 

You are clearly a controversial figure in this Forum, due to your age (and the amount of grafts) and your outspoken personality, but without you this Forum would be lesser in many ways.

 

Very brave to adress you personal goals and I wish you the best that you can achieve what you are looking for. Personally I would not have lowered the hairline further. But I am also older which maybe changes the perspective.

 

Grow well and thank you for your support.

 

Hi Jean,

Well done for having the balls to go through another procedure. Some have questioned if you need the second run through, you are a perfectionist- it's clear to see. You are controversial, however I do agree with your posts......most of the time :D

I think your results so far are great, but you will move to another level now.

Hope you heal quickly and get the results you desire, good luck.


5024 grafts with Asmed Clinic. Dr Koray 25th & 26th Oct 2017

 

Those who spend their time looking for the faults in others usually make no time to correct their own. –Art Janak

 

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/187649-countdown-my-hair-transplant.html

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Do you have more pictures before the 2nd surgery? You put 4500 grafts on the front line and you only had a reciding fromt line, you are going to be like Elvis or Travolta!!! :)

 

I think your front line was good enough before the second surgery to be honest.

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Do you have more pictures before the 2nd surgery? You put 4500 grafts on the front line and you only had a reciding fromt line, you are going to be like Elvis or Travolta!!! :)

 

I think your front line was good enough before the second surgery to be honest.

 

If I wore the hair down (which I have my whole life) rather than exposing the hairline it looked fine as the temple was covered, but with the hairline exposed I felt there was still a visibly ageing effect from the slight remaining recession. Liveable, but considering I'm still 23 and unfortunate to have friends most of whom have shoulder length hair with juvenile hairlines, + want to go for girls my age and younger it didn't make sense to be conservative. At least in the case that I hadn't lowered it further I would have constantly regretted it.

 

4500 in the frontal third sounds like a large amount, but realistically I had virtually no hair in the frontal third (You might not see that initially with my long hair, but I'll put up photos to show you what I mean), and the forelock had significant implants into it also. I've gone from a high Norwood 3 with virtually no forelock left to something similar to a teenage hairline.

 

Of course it wasn't mandatory, the average person wouldn't have thought I had hairloss looking at my hairline and coverage after the first surgery (including my hairdresser who was impressed), this was more just a desire for perfectionism. At this point the line is exactly how I want it though, also I wasn't happy with the design of the hairline from the first procedure, as I thought it was too rounded which wasn't totally natural. Not the clinics fault, I actually directed them to do so after Koray designed one initially that in retrospect was more natural, but its hard to know exactly what will look ideal once it grows out and what suits to begin with.

 

Also put a photo up showing the remaining recession after the first op. I think it's fairly noticeable. Lengths are slightly different, I think it was at 7 months so the hairs weren't all at the same point but it shows my point well.

Untitled.thumb.jpg.ec87fc63cdea3ab405f1600e2ea8723d.jpg

har.jpg.4e8d34fbd8fb25cda92842d9a32e5b19.jpg

image09.thumb.jpg.3b11ca0945eafdbb971d1949b7182adc.jpg

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In the third picture I know what you mean. Your case reminds me a guy who put 5400 grafts on the front line but he moved his hair line very far down (but he looks amazing) so the case it’s very oretty similar to yours! Here it’s the video if you want to have a look;

 

Very interesting your case, I’m sure you are going to en like the guy on the video. :)

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Posted (edited)

10 days.

 

Very impressed with how things are looking, especially the hairline. Can barely tell the natives apart from the transplants in the crown. Doesn't seem to be as much redness as last time in general, donor not looking too bad either considering the amount of grafts taken but scarring still noticeable at this length. Acceptable to go out in public at this point though.

 

Going to be hard in a few days when the shedding starts :mad:

use.jpg.92796c5f46c8c8973461b7b94aced0f6.jpg

crown.jpg.ce4c47c6782819260a809f7c843985b4.jpg

P1140447.thumb.jpg.5e874d0e714f2689deebb609df762560.jpg

P1140448.thumb.jpg.878c0bec2b96ea01cd0e41699359ab22.jpg

IMG_1361-10-05-18-04-52.thumb.jpg.b0b8b3fe5a5bcdf0eba883fa256dcfc0.jpg

P1140444.thumb.jpg.5313f213fec8917e4a6840317f160741.jpg

Edited by JeanLDD

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attachment.php?attachmentid=123242&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1525937159

 

I really like that picture, you are going to look amazing in a few months only :)

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Slayer hairline. How many days did u stay in turkey after the op?

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Slayer hairline. How many days did u stay in turkey after the op?

 

1 night. Next day you come into the clinic for a wash etc, then most head off after 2 pm (they set this as a minimum).

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Were u all swollen in the flight home? What's sleep like the first few days?

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Were u all swollen in the flight home? What's sleep like the first few days?

 

Swelling doesn't get bad until about 3 days, by then I was already home. Similar situation with donor pain in my case, was fairly bad up until about 8 days which I took pain killers for. I'd recommend getting yourself a comfortable neck pillow if you opted for a procedure, the clinic give one but its a blow up that tends to deflate after a while. Just a constant worry not to itch your grafts while you're sleeping the first few days, the pain also annoying too up until about 8.

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I had no pain after day 3 but the itch was a son of a bi***. I had the itching bad for about first 3 months.

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10 days.

 

Very impressed with how things are looking, especially the hairline. Can barely tell the natives apart from the transplants in the crown. Doesn't seem to be as much redness as last time in general, donor not looking too bad either considering the amount of grafts taken but scarring still noticeable at this length. Acceptable to go out in public at this point though.

 

Going to be hard in a few days when the shedding starts :mad:

 

hey Jean!

 

I am similar in age to you and definitely considering a transplant, though probably with Rahal as I am in Ottawa. I was wondering why you chose fue instead of fut given your age and the fact that fut would probably allow for more grafts. Also, were you turned down by any other clinics before going to erdogan? Did you try anyone else first or was he your first choice?

 

I have a few other questions for you I would really appreciate if you could email me at nhlpro11@hotmail.com looking for all the help i can get thanks!

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Understandable point on the hairline. My thought was that the slight alteration was possible with only around 800 or so grafts which ultimately wouldn't make a significant impact on my options, but would let me avoid keeping the issue on my mind going forward in the medium term. At this point the design is exactly how I want it to be, which regardless of any micro density issues that inevitable pop up when implanting into virgin scalp was preferable to me than getting the previous area absolutely perfect. It's also hard on a first run through when looking at a buzzed head to know exactly how you want the design, and I didn't feel I had it optimal the first time round so adjustment was necessary. I've seen Spanker say there's no such thing as an emergency hair transplant, but from day 1 my plan was a first that was exactly that, but do so slightly conservatively, with a second slightly more aggressive approach like Yas opted for to get the situation off the mind for the medium term without any second thoughts down the track.

 

Thank you, many tend of opt for the opposite but I've always felt that with hairloss being a very sensitive and difficult issue for people it's better to aggressively (often literally) push an objective and analytical approach to things without any treading on eggshells. Obviously I'm a higher risk case than most and I doubt many other top surgeons would have gone through with this, but considering the money and time were there I'd have ultimately regretted not attempting to fix the issue to the greatest possible extent. A very strong donor, no thinning or family history beyond NW5 helps too.Obviously no guarantee, but a yield in the ball park of the last procedure should still put me in a very comfortable position going forward with donor to spare.

 

Hey mainly what im wondering is when u were first going through the process and reached out to rahal, did he have an issue with yor age or was it just his price that finalized your decision to go to Erdogan

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Posted (edited)
hey Jean!

 

I am similar in age to you and definitely considering a transplant, though probably with Rahal as I am in Ottawa. I was wondering why you chose fue instead of fut given your age and the fact that fut would probably allow for more grafts. Also, were you turned down by any other clinics before going to erdogan? Did you try anyone else first or was he your first choice?

 

I have a few other questions for you I would really appreciate if you could email me at nhlpro11@hotmail.com looking for all the help i can get thanks!

 

Was turned down by HnW but wasn't on medication at the time. A few points on FUT, first and foremost the reality and you can see it on these forums on a daily basis is that at least 1/10 even with top surgeons if not more have an unnaceptable level of scarring via FUT or issues such as shock loss around the scar that renders more damage to the donor than FUE would have. The option of SMP into the scar for a bad FUT scar is far less effective in general from what I've seen than FUE scars from what I've seen. Also issues with distortion in the donor of growth angles and differing hair textures at the meeting point of the scar.

 

Also strongly disagree that you are going to get measurably more grafts via an FUT and then FUE approach. First of all FUE post FUT typically avoids a large area around the scar so total donor utilisation is drastically reduced anyway, I also haven't seen a good argument for why FUT could not successfully be performed after an FUE that doesn't edge into conjecture or pseudo-science. There's no reason I couldn't opt for FUT in my current situation if necessary down the track, although I'd be unlikely to due to potential risks I see with FUT.

 

Most importantly I didn't feel any surgeon (at a reasonable price) was getting yields at the level or above in regards to consistency above Erdogan or Lorenzo whether it be FUE or FUT. Consistently I also see Erdogan and Lorenzo reach the 6-7000 level in graft numbers without any visible damage to the donor beyond a few weeks growth, I cannot say the same for FUT in which conversely I consistently see ruined donors due to shock loss or bad scarring in single procedures at the 3000 graft level or below. When FUE is regularly reaching 5000-7000 grafts with no issues in Erdogan and Lorenzo procedures I question why you'd opt for FUT to maximise graft numbers; how many patients out there are hitting the 6-7000 graft point to begin with across their entire lifetime? How many go through their entire donor via FUE and FUT? Virtually none, FUE can typically achieve as many grafts as most patients will realistically ever want.

 

Over time I do feel that in regards to risk FUE is simply the better procedure for most people, and that various surgeons are overcoming the physical limitations and drawbacks of the procedure to achieve yields and aesthetic results at the level of any who perform FUT. Helps that I have a stronger than average donor but I feel that the vast majority can have their long term needs met via FUE.

 

For my case needing what I thought originally to be around 5500-6000 grafts to cover a more aggressive hairline like I have after the second procedure and the also the crown the price also was a consideration. Unless you're living with %$#@ you money I think it's hard to justify prices of any US or Canadian FUE clinics over Erdogan for those graft numbers. There are fantastic FUE hairline surgeons like Baubac and Konior in the States but I don't see those prices as remotely sensible when you're looking over the 1500-2000 graft mark and likely to need more than one surgery. Price aside for the graft numbers I was looking at I'm not confident there would have been better choice than Erdogan, Lorenzo and a few others would have been good options too. Freitas, Couto, Baubac and Konior are the only surgeons I would have maybe considered over Erdogan if waiting lists and cost weren't an issue.

 

If you're keen on FUT and in Ottawa Rahal would definitely be at the top of my list.

 

My email is jeanlucbergman1@yahoo.com

Edited by JeanLDD

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Hey mainly what im wondering is when u were first going through the process and reached out to rahal, did he have an issue with yor age or was it just his price that finalized your decision to go to Erdogan

 

I never reached out to Rahal but I was considering his clinic initially. Ultimately I was set on FUE and preferred Erdogan for this on both price and results.

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