Kaan Pekiner 2506+1000grafts almost 2 years after- my result

[Anthonyd]

That’s why, when you look at the really dense hairlines, a lot of them are done with the DHI method. Is that why we are seeing some sub-par hairline results from some of the big clinics? ( not mentioning any names ) Is it because they are trying to cram in too many grafts using lateral incisions method? 

Sorry this doesn’t help the op, but it’s worth discussing maybe on another thread.

 

[Guy73]

8 minutes ago, Anthonyd said:

That’s why, when you look at the really dense hairlines, a lot of them are done with the DHI method. Is that why we are seeing some sub-par hairline results from some of the big clinics? ( not mentioning any names ) Is it because they are trying to cram in too many grafts using lateral incisions method? 

Sorry this doesn’t help the op, but it’s worth discussing maybe on another thread.

 

Interesting...I never thought of it as a method but that exactly how mine was done 4 years ago. I had 2 procedures. The only difference was on the first one he used a manual punch and implanter tool with premade slits. The second for some reason he switched to a motorized punch extraction. But it does look natural!

[Dr. Pekiner Hair Clinic]

Dredd, in your case medicines were mandatory because your androgenetic alopecia was miniaturizing also the donor area (it is a condition called DUPA and is more common than people think) and dr. Pekiner told you that many times. Not only you did not take Finasteride and Minoxidil as prescribed, you even started minoxidil on and off, that is worse than not taking it at all.

You said you got Finasteride driven depression after 2 weeks of usage, which looks rather unlikely. You said you got side effects from Minoxidil and even from Xpecia that is a mild Saw Palmetto supplement.
Dr. Pekiner also suspects you did not follow post surgery instructions, because you always behaved like you did not care, probably you were thinking that you just had to pay the money to the surgeon and get the results without being annoyed by medicines and post operative care. But the first month after the operation is the most important one.

It is like a fat man not following post operative instructions after a liposuction and starting to eat pies and donuts and lift heavy weights the day after. Surgery doesn't work this way, you must follow and trust doctor instruction and advices, it is not like "this is your money doc, now I want the problem solved".

At the end we have some suspects but we don't know exactly what happened, while you look so sure it was all dr. Pekiner's failure and like 2 weeks ago you started to feel the urge to inform the whole world.

 

9 hours ago, lixinfu said:

I will have a hair transplant with Dr. Kaan in September. I hope that your problem can be solved properly. I think Dr. Kaan should be a responsible doctor and I am looking forward to my success because I have all the savings for this operation.

Please don't worry about this Lixin. I also invite other dr. Pekiner's future patient not to fall prey of a free shooter only interested in destroying the clinic reputation. I will start posting all the clinic good cases in this forum as well, I just need a little time. Please check all the surgeries before and after both of Dredd's operations and you will see 3 perfect frontal dense packs and 1 norwood 6 reconstruction in 2 steps.

 

8 hours ago, Anthonyd said:

Interesting!! 

I agree to a certain extent, that’s why I was curious to see what the Docs think.

 

As I specified before, this case was not treated at an extreme density of more than 50 grafts per cm2, which is often called super dense pack. It was a "classic" high density of around 50 grafts per cm2.

7 hours ago, Anthonyd said:

That’s why, when you look at the really dense hairlines, a lot of them are done with the DHI method. Is that why we are seeing some sub-par hairline results from some of the big clinics? ( not mentioning any names ) Is it because they are trying to cram in too many grafts using lateral incisions method? 

Sorry this doesn’t help the op, but it’s worth discussing maybe on another thread.

 

DHI method, that is basically a marketing term coined for incisions and implantations via implanter pens, shares the same philosophy of the stick and place technique used by dr. Pekiner, that is placing the graft immediately after opening the channel. Having said that, there are many other clinics, using different techniques, like lateral slit with custom blade made incisions, or placers instead of implanters, that can achieve great density all the same.

[Russ]

1 hour ago, Dr. Pekiner Hair Clinic said:

Dredd, in your case medicines were mandatory because your androgenetic alopecia was miniaturizing also the donor area (it is a condition called DUPA and is more common than people think) and dr. Pekiner told you that many times. Not only you did not take Finasteride and Minoxidil as prescribed, you even started minoxidil on and off, that is worse than not taking it at all.

You said you got Finasteride driven depression after 2 weeks of usage, which looks rather unlikely. You said you got side effects from Minoxidil and even from Xpecia that is a mild Saw Palmetto supplement.
Dr. Pekiner also suspects you did not follow post surgery instructions, because you always behaved like you did not care, probably you were thinking that you just had to pay the money to the surgeon and get the results without being annoyed by medicines and post operative care. But the first month after the operation is the most important one.

It is like a fat man not following post operative instructions after a liposuction and starting to eat pies and donuts and lift heavy weights the day after. Surgery doesn't work this way, you must follow and trust doctor instruction and advices, it is not like "this is your money doc, now I want the problem solved".

At the end we have some suspects but we don't know exactly what happened, while you look so sure it was all dr. Pekiner's failure and like 2 weeks ago you started to feel the urge to inform the whole world.

 

Please don't worry about this Lixin. I also invite other dr. Pekiner's future patient not to fall prey of a free shooter only interested in destroying the clinic reputation. I will start posting all the clinic good cases in this forum as well, I just need a little time. Please check all the surgeries before and after both of Dredd's operations and you will see 3 perfect frontal dense packs and 1 norwood 6 reconstruction in 2 steps.

 

As I specified before, this case was not treated at an extreme density of more than 50 grafts per cm2, which is often called super dense pack. It was a "classic" high density of around 50 grafts per cm2.

DHI method, that is basically a marketing term coined for incisions and implantations via implanter pens, shares the same philosophy of the stick and place technique used by dr. Pekiner, that is placing the graft immediately after opening the channel. Having said that, there are many other clinics, using different techniques, like lateral slit with custom blade made incisions, or placers instead of implanters, that can achieve great density all the same.

What would be considered super dense packing? Anything greater than 50cm2?

[dredd77]

1 hour ago, Dr. Pekiner Hair Clinic said:

Dredd, in your case medicines were mandatory because your androgenetic alopecia was miniaturizing also the donor area (it is a condition called DUPA and is more common than people think) and dr. Pekiner told you that many times. Not only you did not take Finasteride and Minoxidil as prescribed, you even started minoxidil on and off, that is worse than not taking it at all.

You said you got Finasteride driven depression after 2 weeks of usage, which looks rather unlikely. You said you got side effects from Minoxidil and even from Xpecia that is a mild Saw Palmetto supplement.
Dr. Pekiner also suspects you did not follow post surgery instructions, because you always behaved like you did not care, probably you were thinking that you just had to pay the money to the surgeon and get the results without being annoyed by medicines and post operative care. But the first month after the operation is the most important one.

It is like a fat man not following post operative instructions after a liposuction and starting to eat pies and donuts and lift heavy weights the day after. Surgery doesn't work this way, you must follow and trust doctor instruction and advices, it is not like "this is your money doc, now I want the problem solved".

At the end we have some suspects but we don't know exactly what happened, while you look so sure it was all dr. Pekiner's failure and like 2 weeks ago you started to feel the urge to inform the whole world.

You need to provide proofs of your words.

I can provide all messaging with Kaan, where I was concerned every month sending photos, asking why bad results, discussing side effects, which I got from the drugs.

Future clients of this clinic be aware in case something goes wrong just wait for long messages of his team how you did not follow surgery instructions, did not care about the op, slept on the wrong side and so on:)

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by dredd77

[LonelyGraft]

1 hour ago, Dr. Pekiner Hair Clinic said:

Dredd, in your case medicines were mandatory because your androgenetic alopecia was miniaturizing also the donor area (it is a condition called DUPA and is more common than people think) and dr. Pekiner told you that many times. Not only you did not take Finasteride and Minoxidil as prescribed, you even started minoxidil on and off, that is worse than not taking it at all.

You said you got Finasteride driven depression after 2 weeks of usage, which looks rather unlikely. You said you got side effects from Minoxidil and even from Xpecia that is a mild Saw Palmetto supplement.
Dr. Pekiner also suspects you did not follow post surgery instructions, because you always behaved like you did not care, probably you were thinking that you just had to pay the money to the surgeon and get the results without being annoyed by medicines and post operative care. But the first month after the operation is the most important one.

It is like a fat man not following post operative instructions after a liposuction and starting to eat pies and donuts and lift heavy weights the day after. Surgery doesn't work this way, you must follow and trust doctor instruction and advices, it is not like "this is your money doc, now I want the problem solved".

At the end we have some suspects but we don't know exactly what happened, while you look so sure it was all dr. Pekiner's failure and like 2 weeks ago you started to feel the urge to inform the whole world.

 

Please don't worry about this Lixin. I also invite other dr. Pekiner's future patient not to fall prey of a free shooter only interested in destroying the clinic reputation. I will start posting all the clinic good cases in this forum as well, I just need a little time. Please check all the surgeries before and after both of Dredd's operations and you will see 3 perfect frontal dense packs and 1 norwood 6 reconstruction in 2 steps.

 

As I specified before, this case was not treated at an extreme density of more than 50 grafts per cm2, which is often called super dense pack. It was a "classic" high density of around 50 grafts per cm2.

DHI method, that is basically a marketing term coined for incisions and implantations via implanter pens, shares the same philosophy of the stick and place technique used by dr. Pekiner, that is placing the graft immediately after opening the channel. Having said that, there are many other clinics, using different techniques, like lateral slit with custom blade made incisions, or placers instead of implanters, that can achieve great density all the same.

What kind of post op instructions did the patient not follow that could compromise his yield besides the meds? I’ve read grafts are very secure and permanent at roughly 7-10 days post op

[Guy73]

19 minutes ago, Russ said:

What would be considered super dense packing? Anything greater than 50cm2?

That doctor is crazy then. I had a better result on 35cm2 on my first pass. If that is 50 then I would say a lot did not grow. I was always told 35-40 per cm2 the most and come back for a second. Anymore then that you can run into blood flow issues and survival of graft. I am sure some people can do it but I would feel better playing it safe. 

[Uncle drew]

3 hours ago, dredd77 said:

You need to provide proofs of your words.

I can provide all messaging with Kaan, where I was concerned every month sending photos, asking why bad results, discussing side effects, which I got from the drugs.

Future clients of this clinic be aware in case something goes wrong just wait for long messages of his team how you did not follow surgery instructions, did not care about the op, slept on the wrong side and so on:)

 

That’s a wrong thing to say dredd u can’t talk about future clients of him to be aware...how come? The doctor has amazing results and very natural posted all over the forums and u come and say after a bad result of yours to be aware? People will decide based on results that come out every day not from a bad one or a good one

 

[doctoroctopus]

I had surgery with Dr. Kaan earlier this year and I am very happy with my results. He cares a lot about his work and struck me as a very ethical doctor. 

It sounds like this patient has DUPA (a very rare condition by which even donor hair is susceptible to DHT). It can only be expected then that without a DHT-blocker, the transplanted donor hair would begin to miniaturize and fall out. This has nothing to do with the surgeon's skill. Rather it is to do with the patient's unfortunate medical condition. He was told he must take finasteride or risk the transplanted hair falling out. It sounds like he stopped finasteride due to side effects. Not the patient's fault, but we also can't blame the doctor here. The fact that given all this, Dr. Kaan gave the patient a free touch-up of 1000 grafts speaks volumes of his character. 

Even the most skilled doctors in the world encounter unfortunate situations such as this one. In these cases, all they can do is try their best to remedy the situation. 

[Greg_Swanson]

If a patient indeed has DUPA - then would finasteride be enough to stop this donor thinning usually?

No one I've spoken to has seemed to know whether meds can be effective in stopping DUPA.

Hope you get everything sorted out, OP. 

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, Greg_Swanson said:

If a patient indeed has DUPA - then would finasteride be enough to stop this donor thinning usually?

No one I've spoken to has seemed to know whether meds can be effective in stopping DUPA.

Hope you get everything sorted out, OP. 

Yes, there are several cases from Lorenzo where he posts DUPA cases that improve with Finasteride and some even require Dutasteturide. 

[Dr. Pekiner Hair Clinic]

On 8/25/2019 at 3:42 AM, dredd77 said:

You need to provide proofs of your words.

I can provide all messaging with Kaan, where I was concerned every month sending photos, asking why bad results, discussing side effects, which I got from the drugs.

Future clients of this clinic be aware in case something goes wrong just wait for long messages of his team how you did not follow surgery instructions, did not care about the op, slept on the wrong side and so on:)

 

Future patients of our clinic know that in case something goes wrong about the regrowth, we offer a free touch up as it was offered to you. You showed concern in all the potential side effects of the medicines you were prescribed. Finasteride (depression after only 2 weeks of usage is inconsistent with the drug mechanism of action).

In addition not only you just lasted 2 weeks taking Finasteride, you also stopped Minoxidil once and for good after you had been taking it for 6 months before surgery, losing all benefits you gained thanks to the medicine. You lamented side effects even from a mild saw palmetto supplement. You behaved so bizarrely that dr. Pekiner started to have strong doubts about you following the other post operative instructions. While we are sure you did not take the prescribed drugs.

Long message of his team only started to appear after you began to shoot bad words at the clinic in public forums trying to blacken dr. Pekiner's reputation and frighten potential patients.

The facts are that the patients treated just before and just after your first and second surgery are all doing or have done perfectly fine.

I just published two of them:

Something went wrong only in your surgeries and we don't know exactly what happened. We are sure you did not take the prescribed drugs to fight androgenetic alopecia (Finasteride and Minoxidil) and dr. Pekiner has heavy suspects you did not follow the post operative instructions either. 

You are sure instead it was all dr. Pekiner's fault, but the 4 patients treated just before and after you, show that the problem is in your case only. Do you have proofs dr. Pekiner performed something wrong? You don't have still you keep on shooting at him. I am repeating myself, a successful surgery requires collaboration and trust between the patient and the doctor, following the post operative instructions is fundamental. It is also possible there is something wrong in your physiology but it is impossible to determine exactly.

 

On 8/25/2019 at 3:42 AM, Russ said:

What would be considered super dense packing? Anything greater than 50cm2?

There is not an official guidance but it is commonly accepted in the hair restoration world that around 50 grafts per cm2 is the threshold between medium/high density and dense packing, even if that is just a conventional term, because it also depends on graft size.

On 8/25/2019 at 3:48 AM, jj51702 said:

What kind of post op instructions did the patient not follow that could compromise his yield besides the meds? I’ve read grafts are very secure and permanent at roughly 7-10 days post op

Mostly about taking care of the recipient area, taking the prescribed medicines, not doing heavy activities and not wearing a helmet for 1 month etc. Every clinic provides a list of how to behave after surgery, more or less things are the same for all. I cannot list them all and explain why every point is important here it would take hours. Grafts are anchored way before 7 days post op, but this doesn't mean you can treat them like normal hairs, not at all.

On 8/25/2019 at 4:04 AM, Guy73 said:

That doctor is crazy then. I had a better result on 35cm2 on my first pass. If that is 50 then I would say a lot did not grow. I was always told 35-40 per cm2 the most and come back for a second. Anymore then that you can run into blood flow issues and survival of graft. I am sure some people can do it but I would feel better playing it safe. 

Well then you have been badly informed, nowdays most of the top notch clinics implant at 50 grafts per cm2 and more in every case in which a norwood 1 to 4 must rebuild the frontal part, while the existing hair behind is at native density. Same story for crown reconstructions. I have never seen a clinic asking a patient to come twice to implant 30 grafts per cm2 square in the first surgery and then 20 grafts in the second one on the same area. Following this principle, clinics who perform mainly frontal reconstructions at high density (lets say Keser's DermaPlast since we spoke about him before) should simply not exist, since they perform only dense packing (50 to 65 grafts per cm2) on daily basis.

We perform dense packing in around 50% of our cases.

What you say is logical in special cases like transplanting hair on burn scar or damaged tissue, where you have to re-vascularize the area and try to soften the tissue. There is no clinical reason to limit implantations at 35 grafts per cm2 on healthy skin.

On 8/25/2019 at 7:27 AM, Uncle drew said:

That’s a wrong thing to say dredd u can’t talk about future clients of him to be aware...how come? The doctor has amazing results and very natural posted all over the forums and u come and say after a bad result of yours to be aware? People will decide based on results that come out every day not from a bad one or a good one

 

...how come, because this is basically a vindictive topic even if it is disguised as an informative one.

 

On 8/25/2019 at 2:06 PM, Greg_Swanson said:

If a patient indeed has DUPA - then would finasteride be enough to stop this donor thinning usually?

No one I've spoken to has seemed to know whether meds can be effective in stopping DUPA.

Hope you get everything sorted out, OP. 

 

Yes, finasteride would help. Dupa and retrograde alopecia are nothing but just having DHT sensitive hair follicles inside the donor area and sparse around the occipital sides (that is why it is called DUPA) and/or above and beneath the donor area and on the periauricular area. You can see patients with initial miniaturization on donor while at norwood 2/3 level, and patients at norwood 5 level with perfect donor. DUPA can begin at a early baldnes stage or not be present at all, there is not a rule. This why Finasteride is ofter considered an assurance for long term maintainance.

Example: This one is a doctor Pekiner's patient, norwood 5 level, donor is perfect

 

This is a norwood 2 patient, he has diffuse miniaturization on all donor and surgery had to be postponed after deciding to raise finasteride dosage.

 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Dr. Pekiner Hair Clinic

[lixinfu]

I am going to have surgery with Dr. Kaan in September. How much is the transplant density in my case?

[lixinfu]

I will transplant 3000 follicular units, so how many hairs will there be?  Who knows?

[lixinfu]

If there are 6000 hairs that mean 6000 incisions, if I paid the price of 3000 follicular units, but the clinic only transplanted 3000 hairs to me, how do I know how many hair follicles I eventually transplanted?

[lixinfu]

In this sense, how many hair follicles are finally planted cannot be counted according to the number of incisions. Is it correct to calculate the number of hair follicles extracted?

[Dr. Pekiner Hair Clinic]

8 hours ago, lixinfu said:

If there are 6000 hairs that mean 6000 incisions, if I paid the price of 3000 follicular units, but the clinic only transplanted 3000 hairs to me, how do I know how many hair follicles I eventually transplanted?

No, 3000 grafts are 3000 incisions, if you get 3000 grafts transplanted with a hair/graft ratio average of 2.5, you pay 3000 grafts, you get 3000 incisions (not considering some splitting that can occur) and 7500 hairs more or less.

You will get a paper with this calculation.

I agree Lixin maybe it is better if you open your own dicussion, maybe a moderator can take these messages and open your surgery thread.

[Melvin- Admin]

10 hours ago, lixinfu said:

I am going to have surgery with Dr. Kaan in September. How much is the transplant density in my case?

I’ve sent you a private message to help you create your own topic.

[dredd77]

If I have DUPA, why Kaan never told me that? When I came first time to the op 2 years ago he said my donor was very good. Almost a year ago during the second op he also did not tell me anything about DUPA. Ne also never told me this when I asked in the messages about my results.

And now a man, who has never seen me makes such a diagnosis. Thats bullshit.

[duchaine]

On 9/19/2019 at 12:29 PM, transplantedphil said:

If you have DUPA you should have been taken through all the risks or surgery, and explained that even with medications a hair transplant doesnt necessarily work; https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/55074-dr-charles-answers-whether-you-can-have-a-hair-transplant-with-dupa/ 

It's also strange that if you were diagnosed with DUPA from the start that it was followed by another operation as if that would somehow remedy the situation.

 

If you don't have DUPA then I'm not sure whats going on

Very good points

[dredd77]

I was not diagnosed DUPA by Kaan. Even after second transplant he never told me I have DUPA and that taking finasteride is necessity.

[Melvin- Admin]

11 minutes ago, dredd77 said:

I was not diagnosed DUPA by Kaan. Even after second transplant he never told me I have DUPA and that taking finasteride is necessity.

Did you get a biopsy who told you that you did not have DUPA? Another surgeon?

[dredd77]

I was never diagnosed DUPA by anybody.

[Melvin- Admin]

I think you should definitely speak to a physician to rule out DUPA before getting another surgery from any other surgeon. 

[vermaj]

On 9/18/2019 at 9:20 AM, dredd77 said:

If I have DUPA, why Kaan never told me that? When I came first time to the op 2 years ago he said my donor was very good. Almost a year ago during the second op he also did not tell me anything about DUPA. Ne also never told me this when I asked in the messages about my results.

And now a man, who has never seen me makes such a diagnosis. Thats bullshit.

I feel for you dredd77. 
And I agree that the dr should have told you prior that you have dupa. 
Can the rep provide any proof that the doctor informed the patient with dupa and explained all the risks involved with it?