3600 Grafts - Dr Koray Erdogan 13th March 2018

[VicTNYC]

On 10/4/2018 at 4:46 PM, Payam said:

I wanted to hear your guys opinion on how much % density i would need to not see the scalp in natural light...

Looks much much better than a few weeks ago.

Density definitely looks like it’s improving.

[garethbale]

Is that Morrissey ??

seriously though, definite improvement on the last photo assuming conditions are similar 

[Payam]

On 10/5/2018 at 11:05 PM, BigBen said:

You still have around six more months for density improvement (one year mark). Are you feeling better now?

I'm less than a week from month 7 so technically 5 months. Not happy at all man, doubt I will be at 12 months, the pic above is of the good side and even there the yield isn't great, there are so many issues from doubles in the hairline to density issues despite my hair caliber, trying to be positive though and trust the growth timelines as there is still time improvement. The other side will not improve enough, I've lost hope there, there isn't even enough hair to stick together when I try to slick it, if I look at pictures with my hair a bit greasy the poor yield is more evident, it's evident from the hairline as well with the pluggy look, or when I slick my hair and there is no volume on that side and it kind of just falls flat. Doubt even 500 grafts survived there but it's hars to tell... at least I can hide it by slicking my hair over it for now until I get it fixed. I expected more from this clinic, and especially expected more from koray in our mail conversations. I'm done with them, its just too depressing to think about. Maybe in the end I can slick my hair on the bad side to cover it and my scalp won't be visible on the good side, lets hope..

Appreciate the positivity guys, I know no one wants to read threads like this, we all hope the best for ourselves and each other in the end.

[Melvin- Admin]

To be honest Payam,

Things are improving every month, this is without a doubt a positive. Additionally, I think you're looking at things from a skewed perspective, yes the result isn't as dense as you want it to be however, there is still time for things to improve and they have been consistently improving. Secondly, you're not a repair job, nothing about your result screams botch job. You don't have pitting, cobblestoning or ridging. You have a natural shape and overall natural hairline, now obviously the hairline isn't the thickest or densest hairline, but I think you're unnecessarily causing yourself grief. At 12 months if you feel the same simply get a touch up that's really all you would need a touch up nothing else. With that said, still plenty of time for things to turn around.

[Payam]

On 10/6/2018 at 2:35 PM, garethbale said:

Is that Morrissey ??

seriously though, definite improvement on the last photo assuming conditions are similar 

Appreciate it man, the conditions on the last pic is the same as this one taken 2.5 weeks ago so yeah, definite improvement on this side, hoping it will look good in the end.

[Payam]

26 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

To be honest Payam,

Things are improving every month, this is without a doubt a positive. Additionally, I think you're looking at things from a skewed perspective, yes the result isn't as dense as you want it to be however, there is still time for things to improve and they have been consistently improving. Secondly, you're not a repair job, nothing about your result screams botch job. You don't have pitting, cobblestoning or ridging. You have a natural shape and overall natural hairline, now obviously the hairline isn't the thickest or densest hairline, but I think you're unnecessarily causing yourself grief. At 12 months if you feel the same simply get a touch up that's really all you would need a touch up nothing else. With that said, still plenty of time for things to turn around.

I'm afraid of this, don't think I could handle another setback were it to happen, even worse I read other users that were left worse off after their repair/touch up, and I fear for the future. Since I have asian hair my caliber is great but I don't have that many grafts left in the bank, I really need to plan for the future here as I don't want to be left without options when I'm older. On the other hand I don't think I can live with applying toppik in the hairline every day which is a pain as anyone will tell you, so it all depends on where the density is at on the right side in a couple of months. If it's enough so I can style my hair that way without using toppik, I can live with covering it as I do right now, it's not ideal but not a total disaster either. Trying to be level headed and rational here for the sake of my future self, so really hoping for more density on the right side.

Edited October 7, 2018 by Payam

[kw877]

19 minutes ago, Payam said:

Appreciate it man, the conditions on the last pic is the same as this one taken 2.5 weeks ago so yeah, definite improvement on this side, hoping it will look good in the end.

I’m keeping my fingers crossed for you as I too wouldn’t be happy if this was the final density. Lots of time to improve yet though. I’m just over 2 months out from asmed and cant help checking every day. Especially a particular spot with no hairs at all poking through yet lol.

[Payam]

On 10/5/2018 at 10:53 PM, Legend007 said:

I think u should personally write a letter to the asmed clinic for flipping out on them .. ur hair is coming along well now .. u owe them an apology payam ?

Not sure if you're serious but It looks awful man, It looks so unnatural because of the low density and my thick dark hairs. Don't know what to do, just been depresses as fuck over this, even considered buzzing it down for now but not entirely sure how that would look, trying to find some pictures on buzzed transplants.

[Mick50]

The hair-line is ultimately how the success/failure of hair restoration is judged by most of us ,obviously if there is no obvious  improvement in the next few months Payam will be right to be dissatisfied  ,but the advice is the same, have to wait til the 12 month mark to ultimately judge if Payam's  earlier concerns about the work were valid .

[HT0416]

Are you worried about the redness?

[Payam]

6 hours ago, HT0416 said:

Are you worried about the redness?

Hadn't noticed it, it doesn't itch in any case

[garethbale]

payam

 

have you thought about adding concealer to make the result appear thicker?  I know ideally you want the result to thicken up but in the meantime it might be an idea.

 

Will make your hair appear thicker and fuller. 

[Melvin- Admin]

On 10/7/2018 at 11:22 AM, Payam said:

I'm afraid of this, don't think I could handle another setback were it to happen, even worse I read other users that were left worse off after their repair/touch up, and I fear for the future. Since I have asian hair my caliber is great but I don't have that many grafts left in the bank, I really need to plan for the future here as I don't want to be left without options when I'm older. On the other hand I don't think I can live with applying toppik in the hairline every day which is a pain as anyone will tell you, so it all depends on where the density is at on the right side in a couple of months. If it's enough so I can style my hair that way without using toppik, I can live with covering it as I do right now, it's not ideal but not a total disaster either. Trying to be level headed and rational here for the sake of my future self, so really hoping for more density on the right side.

Yea, IMO you probably should’ve never opted for surgery. Your expectations and outlook I don’t think is suited for surgery tbh. I hope that you can somehow come to terms with your results which so far isn’t great, but definitely is not a “botch” job as you view it. 

I apply toppik in my crown at least 3-4 x a week and I honestly have no problem with it, I also take 20-30 min to get my hair looking perfect. That’s just who I am and as I embarked on this journey it was never my outlook to seek perfection or with the thought that I would never have to worry about my hair again. I thought if only I could have more hair and have some options or at least have the ability to use toppik I would be happy. It’s a difference in a perspective, wish you the best I hope you can find some peace of mind. 

[fortuneplant]

If I was in Payam's position, I'd worry. While I don't expect density, I expect more growth/wispy sprouts than he is currently having.

Note: At seven months and high density HT - 2,600 grafts in front is around 70 grafts/sq cm, that's much higher than the 40 grafts per square cm rule of thumb. 

[Payam]

6 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Yea, IMO you probably should’ve never opted for surgery. Your expectations and outlook I don’t think is suited for surgery tbh. I hope that you can somehow come to terms with your results which so far isn’t great, but definitely is not a “botch” job as you view it. 

I apply toppik in my crown at least 3-4 x a week and I honestly have no problem with it, I also take 20-30 min to get my hair looking perfect. That’s just who I am and as I embarked on this journey it was never my outlook to seek perfection or with the thought that I would never have to worry about my hair again. I thought if only I could have more hair and have some options or at least have the ability to use toppik I would be happy. It’s a difference in a perspective, wish you the best I hope you can find some peace of mind. 

A transplant that looks unnatural is by definitional a failure. You keep blaming me for having high expectations and I don't get it, I expected more than this with my number of grafts and hair caliber yes, I don't see how that is setting my expectations too high. I apply toppik to both my hairline and crown before I go out for work or anything else, it takes me 40 minutes at least as it is hard getting toppik in the hairline to look decent and is absolutely soul destroying. If my hairline looked anything like yours did at even 6 months and I only had to use toppik on the crown I would be over the moon, please kill this notion that I expected perfection, at 7 months I didn't expect it to look like this is all.. I know the growth timelines and I know we need to wait until the one year mark, but it's pretty obvious at 7 months that a lot of my grafts never grew..

 

 

 

 

[fortuneplant]

Payam, are you using minoxidil?

[Sean]

Payam, hope it gets better as the timeline progresses to the one year mark.  That is not high density yet but as time goes on I hope it fills in with newly grown grafts more.  If toppik is needed, it is not where you want it to be yet.  If eyes glare at your scalp in various lighting, it is not where you want it to be yet.  Could everyhing change at 1 year mark, we will have to see if it meets the goals you discussed with the doctor.  Best wishes and good luck.  

[Legend007]

U have every right to feel how u do payam .. u paying good money to look better not feel worse .. but it’s just how things are .. it’s the risk u take when u do surgery , ..

but logically speaking , I think most ur grafts grew , u just lost a lot of native hair in ur hairline . ( but those hairs would be on there way out in a few years anyways .. . so net gain of hair n losses didn’t equate to a dense transplant .. I’m afraid of the same thing for myself .. since I still have a lot of thin vellus hairs In my hairline .. there’s no way surgery into that areas will not damage what I currently have .. it’s something I’m afraid of too .. so hoping u the best .. 

[Mick50]

2 hours ago, Legend007 said:

U have every right to feel how u do payam .. u paying good money to look better not feel worse .. but it’s just how things are .. it’s the risk u take when u do surgery , ..

but logically speaking , I think most ur grafts grew , u just lost a lot of native hair in ur hairline . ( but those hairs would be on there way out in a few years anyways .. . so net gain of hair n losses didn’t equate to a dense transplant .. I’m afraid of the same thing for myself .. since I still have a lot of thin vellus hairs In my hairline .. there’s no way surgery into that areas will not damage what I currently have .. it’s something I’m afraid of too .. so hoping u the best .. 

I just looked at Payam's pre-op pics ...a totally new hair -line was created..  so no native hairs in the new hair-line that was created..  

Edited October 9, 2018 by Mick50

[Payam]

3 hours ago, fortuneplant said:

Payam, are you using minoxidil?

No mate only finasteride, would prefer to avoid minox if i could to be honest and to be fair i don't think it would help me enough, my density issues are all over the transplanted area so only another transplant would help I think

[Payam]

3 hours ago, Legend007 said:

U have every right to feel how u do payam .. u paying good money to look better not feel worse .. but it’s just how things are .. it’s the risk u take when u do surgery , ..

but logically speaking , I think most ur grafts grew , u just lost a lot of native hair in ur hairline . ( but those hairs would be on there way out in a few years anyways .. . so net gain of hair n losses didn’t equate to a dense transplant .. I’m afraid of the same thing for myself .. since I still have a lot of thin vellus hairs In my hairline .. there’s no way surgery into that areas will not damage what I currently have .. it’s something I’m afraid of too .. so hoping u the best .. 

This is false, look at this picture of my post op, compare the density of the grafts to my native, and then to my recent pictures, it's nowhere near.

[garethbale]

I’d be annoyed as well Payam.  Clearly not enough of the grafts have grown (so far) and I think it’s very patronising for people to tell you your expectations were unrealistic.  Looking at your immediate post op pics you would expect very good density from that.

I would wait a couple of months more though before you assess the final result however.  In the meantime I do think you should use toppik or some kind of concealer which will make the result appear thicker and more natural.  I don’t se ewhy it’s such a chore as you only need to do it once in the morning. 

Also get on meds if you are not already.  Your pre-op pics show you have good hair on the crown and meds should thicken that up, reducing the need for further work.

good luck mate! 

[fortuneplant]

3 hours ago, Payam said:

No mate only finasteride, would prefer to avoid minox if i could to be honest and to be fair i don't think it would help me enough, my density issues are all over the transplanted area so only another transplant would help I think

I asked because Minox helps with blood flow. You had a dense HT and it's possible you are going through a slow growth because you are still going through the healing process or maybe not all grafts are receiving nutrients at the same pace. Worth a try.

[Legend007]

Yeah u right .. after lookin at ur pre-op u should of gotten a much denser result .. u still got a few more months to go however .. 

[Melvin- Admin]

11 hours ago, Payam said:

A transplant that looks unnatural is by definitional a failure. You keep blaming me for having high expectations and I don't get it, I expected more than this with my number of grafts and hair caliber yes, I don't see how that is setting my expectations too high. I apply toppik to both my hairline and crown before I go out for work or anything else, it takes me 40 minutes at least as it is hard getting toppik in the hairline to look decent and is absolutely soul destroying. If my hairline looked anything like yours did at even 6 months and I only had to use toppik on the crown I would be over the moon, please kill this notion that I expected perfection, at 7 months I didn't expect it to look like this is all.. I know the growth timelines and I know we need to wait until the one year mark, but it's pretty obvious at 7 months that a lot of my grafts never grew..

 

 

 

 

Payam,

You have been saying the results are a failure since 4 months, it still has time to turn around yes even at 7 months. In addition, your result IMO does not look unnatural, the hairline is sparse yes, it lacks density without a doubt, but the hairline has single hair follicular units and the angles aren’t misplaced. With that said, like I said before; if things do not change at 12 months I will personally contact Dr. Erdogan. However, I have seen improvements every month, so there’s definitely time and hope.