Painful decade long journey. 34 yo | 3x HT

[track_rat]

On 6/13/2022 at 7:42 AM, JimKan1 said:

the skin in the recipient area of the hairline still looks irritated, why is that so?

No idea man. Confused about a lot of things that were done. 

On 6/13/2022 at 10:37 AM, Z-- said:

Hi @track_rat-- any updates?

 

On 6/20/2022 at 2:29 PM, mrmane85 said:

Updates would be great. Hope things are further improving for you

Nothing to materially update. Things look the same as they did in my last update. Truthfully, things were starting to look ok in the first quarter (first 3 months), and that’s because only a small amount of the beard hairs were growing and blending in with my existing hairs. The real problem started when the remainder of the beard hairs grew in, and essentially created a birds nest on my head. My styling options are incredibly limited, the only way to get them to sit is with an exhaustive process in the morning to blow dry, paste and hair spray them. The whirl pattern was lost because beard hairs just won’t follow a double whirl, no matter how skilled the surgeon made the slits or how good the technician placement was. 
 

As I come up on one year of my surgery, I’m realizing that I’ve spent the majority of this time a recluse. My life, lack of confidence and self-esteem has weakened materially. I find comfort in a hat these days, just wish my jaw line wasn’t compromised the way it was. 
 

In terms of positive steps and trying to move forward, I’ve consulted with several of the top surgeons you all recommend on this forum. My approach with them all was to explain my history and chronology, let them examine me in person, and give me their assessment of what should be done without any input from me. The consensus was undoubtedly that the standalone beard hair implantation in the center of the crown presents too much of a detectable contrast against my finer native hair, and manageability is limited considerably due to the wiry characteristics of my beard hair coupled with the varying angulations in a double whirl.

So next steps may be to de-bulk, or remove in entirety everything from my crown. This is a terrifying option, but I need to do something. There’s still quite a bit of donor left, so some delicate dance of finding a good home for the extracted beard hairs while also extracting scalp hairs and methodically placing them for a naturally thinning look is probably the play. Wasting what should have been the best years of my life.

On a positive note, every surgeon I met with said the chin line can be easily reconstructed with some additional hairs to decrease the dramatic light / dark contrast. 
 

The most discouraging part of this is that I did my research for over a year when finally deciding on Eugenix. I still think the results out of that clinic are generally incredible. They’ve changed so many people’s lives. Bad luck for me I guess. 

In any event, I probably won’t have any updates for a while as this next step in my journey is very uncertain. Thanks for your support and for giving me a platform to voice my thoughts. 

[RTC]

Hope you can find a resolution to it bro

[MazAB]

Really sorry you've had to endure so much over the years. I hope you find resolution my friend. 

[Z--]

Mate, def not the news we were hoping for. We're rooting for you!

[Al - Moderator]

You may want to wait a while before doing anything. The beard hair may straighten and soften some over the next year. I had numerous sessions of beard and chest hair transplanted to my scalp and on me it takes 2 to 3 years to really soften up enough to not notice it.

 

[Antlor]

Since you are wearing a hat now, why not try different hair styles? If different hair styles don't work, it would be concealed with your hat. Try shaving your hair with a 3 guard, if the beard hair in the crown is still curly, then try a 2 guard. That might give you a homogenized look. See whether you like it. You mentioned that there are some abrupt gaps in the crown, that can be fixed with another hair transplant using your beard hair and some for your jawline too.

Try to think outside the box. When I had my first hair transplant in 2019, I couldn't style my hair the old way anymore and I tried something else and I came to accept and like it. 

Key for you is to cut your hair short and see whether it's uniform without that curly appearance in the crown. If it works and you accept it, then it's the new you. Hair transplant, just like anything else in life has pros and cons.

Buy a $30 clipper from Target or Walmart and give it a whirl.

 

[Eugenix Hair Sciences]

We agree that the beard donor has thinning and the jawline has been disturbed. The doctors plan to transplant body hair there and rectify the beard hair donor asap. However, the scalp to beard texture mismatch in the crown was inevitable and it is looking more exaggerated because they have grown long. It can be made to look better. If you cut those hair and use some hair gel, the crown will look fuller and it will look okay. It won't look that bad.

Edited July 3, 2022 by Eugenix Hair Sciences

[ahmed9500]

This is a very interesting case here. @track_ratplease could you upload more pics showing different angles and also the hairline. @Eugenix Hair Sciencewhen you say you will “rectify” does this mean at your own cost? And is the patient expected to pay travel costs? This result really doesnt help patients like myself who are having HTs in the nezt 2 weeks at Eugenix. 

[Eugenix Hair Sciences]

The area of jawline where beard was extracted is looking unacceptably sparse. There we will implant body hair grafts to resolve the sparse look.

We had the limitation of extraction from scalp donor because of previous FUT and FUE (post ARTAS) Scars. The primary concern was to retain the scalp donor.
Along with that crown was to be restored so we needed lot of beard grafts. Now the problem is beard hair in crown are not looking aesthetic although we had placed scalp grafts too in the central crown.

With the limited number of scalp grafts, we had to do hairline density also and crown too. So we used scalp grafts in centre and towards periphery it was predominantly beard. There were pre existing thin scalp hair in the periphery of the crown.

We can restore the jawline now and it will require 100 to 300 body hair grafts but now it will be difficult to rectify the beard texture mismatch in the crown.

We will not charge for 100 to 300 grafts but we won't pay for travel costs.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Eugenix Hair Sciences

[azza786]

Brother, we are more or less in the same boat. I would say you are in a much better situation than myself. Atleast you have hair in the crown and all over. If I were you, I would look into SMP to fill in the gaps. Let's be honest, you have hair all over. This means that you don't need to keep it cropped but a short haircut with SMP should give a good blend and improve your situation. I am looking to go with Eugenix in December and since I'm limited on donor supply, my plan is to fill whatever is possible, if it comes off more than expected - great. If not, then atleast I know I am in a relative better position and make use of SMP to aid. I currently have done SMP so can atleast comment on that. You almost need to see your scalp as a canvas or project and think what is the BEST you can do. Atleast there are options available. So ye, that's my advice. You should feel lucky that atleast there is hair all around and that you don't have slick bald areas on your head. 

Hope that helps. 

[RTC]

@track_ratyou said you were going to meet the eugenix doctors in the states in June - why didn't you do so?

[THE TRUTH]

What  exactly did Dr. Pradeep Sethi and Dr. Arika Bansal say in regards to your result ? 

I totally understand that they were dealing with a very complicated situation in the first place (advanced baldness + depleted donor area)... Your options were very limited. I get it and I do not blame them. 

But still I find it either naive or unethical to perform a procedure if you know in advance that this is going to be the outcome....

I mean an experienced surgeon should be capable of predicting pretty easily how well the beard hairs would blend with the rest of the scalp hairs once they are transplanted on the scalp....

Also your beard extraction  has been poorly performed. Luckily, it's not a big deal since it can be fixed easily with 100 grafts but this is not the first case with highly questionable extraction that I see from Eugenix. Captain Haddock also had visible donor overharvesting... And I've seen a couple cases where the temples work was botched. All this which make me reconsider this clinic. 

I appreciate they offered you a small repair surgery for your beard. It shows they stand by their work and do care about patients.

I hope you will be offered some kind of repair or refund for the unatural result that you got on the scalp. 

Again the improvement in coverage is there, graft survival was good  and you may benefit from using a straightener.

But this is a typical case of very poor planning. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Hope everything is nova

[Z--]

Agreed with the above. I don't want to be too negative, especially since this was a tough case and Eugenix is doing the right thing by offering to touch up the jaw and, unlike many other clinics, stands behind their work to the point of even admitting -- and showing willingness to rectify -- mistakes. It's very refreshing to see. Certainly an improved response compared to Haddock's case; overall a huge step in the right direction for them.

I also hope they also offer to re-implant some of the beard grafts. I'd def not remove them. I've heard it takes more than a year (if not, two) for them to adjust to the scalp, so perhaps waiting it out just a bit more will help. I think it was a bold effort from the get-go, but it's clear that beard hair needs to be used as filler alongside scalp hair. 

Keep us updated mate on whichever steps you decide next. This is completely fixable and you've still come a LONG way since the start of the journey. We'd love to see you get this over the finish-line like Azza.  

Edited July 4, 2022 by Z--

[mrmane85]

On 7/4/2022 at 1:34 AM, Eugenix Hair Sciences said:

We agree that the beard donor has thinning and the jawline has been disturbed. The doctors plan to transplant body hair there and rectify the beard hair donor asap. However, the scalp to beard texture mismatch in the crown was inevitable and it is looking more exaggerated because they have grown long. It can be made to look better. If you cut those hair and use some hair gel, the crown will look fuller and it will look okay. It won't look that bad.

Was it explained to the patient prior to surgery that the scalp to beard texture mismatch in the crown would be inevitable? 

Also saying that 'it won't look that bad' isn't a good outcome.

[track_rat]

1 hour ago, mrmane85 said:

Was it explained to the patient prior to surgery that the scalp to beard texture mismatch in the crown would be inevitable? 

Also saying that 'it won't look that bad' isn't a good outcome.

I actually flew to Eugenix with the below plan that was prescribed. This is an email snippet of me explaining the plan to a U.S. surgeon that I confide in and using him as a sanity check to make sure I wasn’t doing anything that would get me in trouble.

“Looks like they’re proposing a modest 800 to redesign the hairline and move around some Unger grafts. That’s probably the easiest and most straightforward part of the procedure. They’re also planning for 1500 scalp grafts to be placed in the crown, with my double cowlick design to make it look natural in placement. They will be extracting from safe regions (above ear, upper side burns, and then sparingly throughout the rest of the safe donor region). Does this approach assuage your earlier concerns about later stage graft thinning when harvested outside of a safe zone?

That’s 2,300 grafts to the scalp essentially. They’re also proposing an additional 2,500 grafts that would be a combination of beard and body hair (approximately 60% would be from the beard, with the remaining 40% carefully handpicked from the chest). The Dr.‘s strategy here is to fill in a combination of the Unger strip, as well as light areas left from the ARTAS procedure. They’re confident in this cosmesis approach to restoring the donor area so that it looks better than it does today, and blends better for haircuts. What do you think about this?”

So I went in knowing that I’d have scalp hairs in my crown. When I arrived to India, Dr. Bansal said that my beard looked weaker than it presented on video. Because of this, the heavy beard extraction that would be needed for donor cosmesis probably wasn’t a good option. There was a last minute audible to forego the beard cosmesis approach and instead implant beard hairs directly into the crown, thereby also saving more of the scalp donor bank for the future. This was also a cheaper alternative as less total grafts would be implanted. I specifically asked a few questions about this.

I explicitly recall asking if anybody would be able to notice that it was beard hair on my scalp, to which the answer was an assuring no. I also recall saying one of my goals was to finally go to the gym without a hat. (I’d previously mustered the courage to go without a hat and braved the sweaty weak crown look prior to surgery, but now it’s kind of unimaginable to do)

All around very crappy situation here and an unfortunately life altering result. Will keep you all updated on my next moves.

Thank you so much for caring.

Edited July 5, 2022 by track_rat

[Etownone]

Sounds like you had the perfect plan going in,   but it was changed last minute.    

Eugenix are and should take responsibility for the crown work they did and make the effort to amend the situation somehow.  Maybe move a good majority of those beard grafts on crown to the donor area and use grafts from donor area to crown. 

I know one  guy, Mustang, continues using  grafts from his donor area for the top of head ,   while replenishing donor area with beard grafts.    His dr is Mwamba.   I used Dr Mwamba too for repair work on me.   He is really really good. 

 

[RTC]

What is beard 'cosmesis'?

[track_rat]

1 hour ago, Aslitarcan sucks said:

What is beard 'cosmesis'?

It’s the terminology Dr. Bansal used to describe the process of replenishing the donor with body hair.

[track_rat]

1 hour ago, Etownone said:

Sounds like you had the perfect plan going in,   but it was changed last minute.    

Eugenix are and should take responsibility for the crown work they did and make the effort to amend the situation somehow.  Maybe move a good majority of those beard grafts on crown to the donor area and use grafts from donor area to crown. 

I know one  guy, Mustang, continues using  grafts from his donor area for the top of head ,   while replenishing donor area with beard grafts.    His dr is Mwamba.   I used Dr Mwamba too for repair work on me.   He is really really good. 

 

Have been following his post closely and have also connected with both Mustang and Dr. Mwamba for advice! Going to hit all avenues for options before jumping into anything. Thank you for bringing this up.

[Z--]

2 hours ago, track_rat said:

I actually flew to Eugenix with the below plan that was prescribed. This is an email snippet of me explaining the plan to a U.S. surgeon that I confide in and using him as a sanity check to make sure I wasn’t doing anything that would get me in trouble.

“Looks like they’re proposing a modest 800 to redesign the hairline and move around some Unger grafts. That’s probably the easiest and most straightforward part of the procedure. They’re also planning for 1500 scalp grafts to be placed in the crown, with my double cowlick design to make it look natural in placement. They will be extracting from safe regions (above ear, upper side burns, and then sparingly throughout the rest of the safe donor region). Does this approach assuage your earlier concerns about later stage graft thinning when harvested outside of a safe zone?

That’s 2,300 grafts to the scalp essentially. They’re also proposing an additional 2,500 grafts that would be a combination of beard and body hair (approximately 60% would be from the beard, with the remaining 40% carefully handpicked from the chest). The Dr.‘s strategy here is to fill in a combination of the Unger strip, as well as light areas left from the ARTAS procedure. They’re confident in this cosmesis approach to restoring the donor area so that it looks better than it does today, and blends better for haircuts. What do you think about this?”

So I went in knowing that I’d have scalp hairs in my crown. When I arrived to India, Dr. Bansal said that my beard looked weaker than it presented on video. Because of this, the heavy beard extraction that would be needed for donor cosmesis probably wasn’t a good option. There was a last minute audible to forego the beard cosmesis approach and instead implant beard hairs directly into the crown, thereby also saving more of the scalp donor bank for the future. This was also a cheaper alternative as less total grafts would be implanted. I specifically asked a few questions about this.

I explicitly recall asking if anybody would be able to notice that it was beard hair on my scalp, to which the answer was an assuring no. I also recall saying one of my goals was to finally go to the gym without a hat. (I’d previously mustered the courage to go without a hat and braved the sweaty weak crown look prior to surgery, but now it’s kind of unimaginable to do)

All around very crappy situation here and an unfortunately life altering result. Will keep you all updated on my next moves.

Thank you so much for caring.

This was in no way your fault. I'm so sorry dude. I think at this point the best option given the history and difficulty of the case is a repair surgeon. All around heartbreaking to hear.

[SLA]

I think the advice of trying to cut the beard hairs shorter and considering SMP for density could be sound advice.

 

[drawdownfx]

So sorry to hear about this... I hope you can find a good repair surgeon .. I think with the donor area you have you will be fine with a good repair surgeon, you are already in contact with one! goodluck bro I am rooting for you.

[HappyMan2021]

for all the love Eugenix gets on this forum, it must be said that Eugenix is not known as a repair clinic. 

I'm somewhat surprised you went with Eugenix for this last surgery. 

If you have another surgery after this, you really need to go to an actual repair doc. 

 

[track_rat]

On 7/4/2022 at 7:43 AM, RTC said:

@track_ratyou said you were going to meet the eugenix doctors in the states in June - why didn't you do so?

This is a good question.

Addressing to all: I apologize for the length of this message, but feel it’s important to address as I have intentionally not commented freely on this thread until now for fear of abandonment or causing a rift with the clinic. 

I’ve had a year to really collect my thoughts as fairly as possible. I hope that by describing my mishaps and shortcomings in planning, it saves someone from getting into similar troubles. Hopefully it is helpful for anyone in a similar position contemplating options…what works / what doesn’t / what options you have available to you when things go super wrong, etc.

I share a lot of responsibility here and should have raised a hand to say no to the proposed plan in India. Instead, I fully submitted and blame myself for doing so. I did a lot of research on the surgeons prior to deciding on Eugenix, but not a lot of research on what exact algebra was going down on my head. There was also an element of me thinking - ok wow, I only have a few weeks before we are no longer working remotely and will need to start trickling back into the office (as covid calmed stateside), and also just wanting to be done with this whole ordeal so I could enjoy the emotional and aesthetic benefits of finally pulling the trigger on a HT. There was also an element of me being enamored with the personalities of the doctors and the staff. It felt like family and I was treated as such when I arrived. Lastly, the biggest element was seeing how many lives they’ve changed for the better. I mentally committed to envisioning myself being one of these people and just let my guard down.

Some things I want to address:

-I started a new gig and am doing like 90 hr weeks right now so I truthfully didn’t have the time to travel and meet the docs. I also don’t think I’ll be traveling back to India for anymore work, despite the free chin repair that was offered. I will probably use the vacation time in the future for small sessions here and there at a clinic stateside. Slow and steady for me now. There’s no simple prescribed fix for me anymore and my cavas has seen some things.

-All surgeons I consulted with this year agree that the beard hair in the crown was a mistake. They unanimously are in favor of beard hair implantation as a filler to blend, but my split on the crown was like 1600 beard hairs and 250 scalp hairs which were a mix of actual scalp and then side burns. One of the surgeons everybody loves here called what’s on my crown - a birds nest, and truthfully it is. I really don’t think they should have allowed this to happen, even if I were to have specifically requested it (which I didn’t). 

-The gaps that were left in the ring and below only served to amplify the bearded crown dominance. (Because the strength and coverage is on an island by itself) I did bring this up several times as we operated over two days. I think the answer was that those regions weren’t weak enough to implant into, and we were limited on grafts. Knowing this now, I think a more conservative plan should have been drawn that built up the strength of the periphery to blend with the outer fringe, and then lightly pepper in some hairs here and there to essentially close the circle more in a natural thinning pattern. This is what most surgeons had suggested to me if I could rewind time and do this again. Essentially an inverse of what was done. I don’t think they should have implanted so densely on me with such empty surrounding regions.

-I’m unsatisfied with the hairline which I feel should have been a home run for them. I chalk this up to miscommunication. I described what I wanted to Dr. Bansal, but Dr. Sethi made the slits. I was rarely speaking with them together and rarely in the room with both of them at the same time. I wanted a strengthened hairline with obvious gaps filled, while also removing dirty Unger hairs. I think a conversation should have been had (more my fault for not raising it) about reconstructing a more mature hairline that was very slightly pulled back and more uniform without the peak + some pluggy grafts rearranged. Instead we solidified the hairline and I think they felt bound by my baby hairs in the peak that are holding on thanks to FIN/MIN. There were also way too many hairs that were implanted into the right corner of my head. This was already the overly strong area because of Unger’s odd placement, and we only solidified it more. So the graft density now in that region is like more than a boys head of hair and looks very strange when compared to the rest of my weak hairline. Styling has also been made difficult. I could have really benefited from sparing placement to even out strength instead of a linear thin line that’s quite low on my forehead at the peak. This was a collective failure, but it was mostly my fault for not directing them more. I also am unhappy with the way my temple was left. I know the clinic is known for its incredible temple work. But mine was left disconnected and in overall disarray. The majority of the Unger grafts also still remained. I’ve seen threads where Dr. Sethi goes in and completely fixes hairlines like a magician and rearranges existing implanted hairs individually and the results are always encouraging. So the expertise is there, I just don’t feel that I was a recipient of the time needed for that kind of work. This is truthfully how I feel about my overall experience there. Very kind and nurturing, but not an obsessive amount of attention to detail on me or strategizing on options. I had the highest available package and put all my eggs into that basket, but the work done on me was quite fragmented in terms of focus. I’ve seen the red carpet rolled out for others, but I suppose it may have just been bad timing for me on a busy week or something. Melvin - I love you man. I can’t help but acknowledge that your surgery was nearly identical to mine, and you got absolute red carpet focus and attention. Please don’t be upset with me for saying so. There isn’t a single fiber in my body that would want less for you, and you deserve it more than most. It’s unfortunate that our experiences for the same procedure were so different.  

-I’m upset with the chin extraction. When discussing extraction preop for the beard, I agreed to a neck extraction as opposed to a homogeneous extraction on my cheeks. The thought process here was that I don’t need any beard hair below my shave line so why not. This was sort of a 5 second conversation because I assumed this was crystal clear. Never assume, ever. I also walked in with a freshly trimmed beard so it was clear as day where my neck shave line was. I know some of you are probably like bro it looks fine, but I despise the end result and how much strength it’s taken away from my overall jawline appearance. I know very few people would be able to spot this, but that extraction line is clear as day to me and I can’t really wear a closely trimmed beard anymore. They should have known this right? This is yet another thing that I have to fix.

-Dr. Bansal has been in constant communication and never left a message without response for more than a day. This was great because I can tell she definitely cares a lot. I do need to say that I feel the distance from Dr. Sethi. My guess is it has to do with a combination of my less than stellar results or I turned him off by my anxiety and panic post op. I get it, who would want to talk to me when I’m asking panic questions everyday for a few weeks following my procedure. But I also feel that my reaction was somewhat appropriate for what was done.

Long winded way of saying that I believe they are a talented clinic and continue to put out magical results. I just don’t think I received the attention or the thoughtfulness for my resultant appearance that the work I wanted deserved. I should have gone into that procedure much more educated than I was.

I tried to be as objectively fair to myself and the clinic in my final review here. I have zero agenda. 

Following up shortly with details from a small test surgery I underwent recently to remove the beard hairs in the crown.

 

[Melvin- Admin]

@track_rat

I'm sorry to hear about everything. I truly hope you can find a solution. Please keep me updated. If you're ever in the LA area hit me up.