Painful decade long journey. 34 yo | 3x HT

[Melvin- Admin]

Yea looks like kinky textured scalp hair after an HT. 

[track_rat]

Sorry guys, one more. I noticed quite a few of these in the hairline and they’re different in texture from the rest of the hairline implanted hair. I want to think that the possibility of these being heard hairs is impossible, and too crazy of a mistake for the clinic to do. But, I plucked one beard hair from my crown to compare. And they look the same don’t they?

Left is a crown beard hair. Right is the hairline hair that I showed you yesterday. There are several of these in the front of the hairline and peak. 

Apologies for the paranoia, but I have had terrible luck thus far, and this kind of thing wouldn’t surprise me too much. 

[Gatsby]

With the greatest of respect, if Dr Arika Bansal extracted and oversaw the implantation of your hairline I highly doubt that beard grafts would have been used. The hairline is generally done first along with the scalp grafts extracted. Beard grafts are extracted after this. Perhaps the best thing to do is to contact Dr Arika for confirmation.

[track_rat]

Thank you, Gatsby. This is consistent with my experience. Scalp was extracted on the first day, but some beard hairs were as well on day 1. The bulk of the beard hairs were extracted on day 2.

I will contact Dr. Bansal for confirmation.

All the best. 

[Berba11]

As before, if I pluck a hair from my hairline, mine looks like this too and I had zero beard hair transplanted. 

[mrmane85]

How is the crown looking/feeling @track_ratafter your surgery with Konior? 

[track_rat]

4 hours ago, mrmane85 said:

How is the crown looking/feeling @track_ratafter your surgery with Konior? 

Hey brother, thanks for asking. Konior did a magnificent job, albeit being a minor ish procedure. He extracted predominantly at the top of my crown where my hair is angled forward. The reason for the focus in this region was because it’s the area that was most unruly and wouldn’t lay flat (It still doesn’t, but there’s a vast improvement and I brave going outside without a hat sometimes now. 

Konior knew how much to remove while still keeping the crown looking homogeneous. No visible scarring or discernible dots etc. I feel like the upper fringe of my horseshoe in the back is already looking better (this is the recipient area of the crown beard hairs). I would like to wait a little before I share more photos.

A few issues that I need to tackle with whatever I do next. This is a list of issues that I thought of, in no particular order. And please everyone, let me know if you have thoughts or suggestions. Humbly, I would love all of your feedback on the below:

-I don’t think we should extract anymore beard hairs without supplementing with scalp hairs. But I also don’t want to deploy too much of precious scalp donor bank into the crown. The top of my head/mid scalp/and some hairline tweaks could be made to look quite good with very few scalp grafts and some skilled placement. 

-The very center of my crown where the central whirls converge have about 300 scalp grafts implanted. Unfortunately, the density here sort of drives the required density in the surrounding crown region. Stated another way, if we extract beard hairs around the crown, I’ll still have this dense scalp hair implantation as a bulls eye dead center. Extracting these scalp hairs would be tricky as well, as they’re strong hairs and it would just look odd if there was a resultant sparse placement there in my whirl formation. I feel like this wouldn’t be aesthetic at all and is going to be so absurdly tricky to rectify.

-If I had a second chance and could undo this procedure in a fantasy world, I would never have committed that level of strength dead center in a crown. I’m mid 30’s, and some thinning in the crown would have been so much more appropriate for me. Building around the crown to strengthen the horseshoe dip, the outer crown rings and corners, would have been a fantastic result I feel like. And leaving my weaker native hairs in a smallish circle at the top. I used to do this sometimes with toppik, pre Eugenix. I’d spray in my horseshoe, outer rings, and leave the center crown untouched for a natural look. Unfortunately, my procedure was an inverse of this. Committed capital dead center, but left weak in the surrounding ring, corners, and horseshoe.

-So now the question is what on earth do I do. Konior was a good first step. But we can’t remove anymore without having a real plan. I desperately hate having these beard hairs in such high density on my head. I’d love to be able to lay my head on a pillow with somebody I’m dating and not have crippling anxiety that they’ll run their hand through my hair and have their fingers get caught in the web of beard hairs in my crown. 
-I’m not against the use of beard hairs scattered throughout my scalp. I think they’re a fantastic filler. But they should never be used in the manner they were on me and in such a directionally critical area on the head. 

-I think I’ll be patient here and wait a few more months to get a full picture of my steady state in the crown once all the recently implanted hairs grow. That’s probably the only thing that can be done right now, is wait. I also have a follow up appointment with Konior in Nov, and other surgeons here and there over the course of the year.

All the best guys.

[Vann]

35 minutes ago, track_rat said:

The top of my head/mid scalp/and some hairline tweaks could be made to look quite good with very few scalp grafts and some skilled placement. 

35 minutes ago, track_rat said:

So now the question is what on earth do I do. Konior was a good first step. But we can’t remove anymore without having a real plan.

Yes, exactly this. You need to find an insanely good surgeon to perform the best with what little you have left. I think if you can rock specific hair styles to cover up some scars in the back while still maintaining density elsewhere, thats where you would go. I think the next steps would be to see how much hair you need to make the back and sides appropriate to your length of hair. About how much of that can the doctor remove to blend it all together (for example, if you removed all the hairs around your head to look like a permanent fade type of artistic look between the contrast of the scars, skin, and hair). 

These surgeons are very very limited, expensive, and few do this in one procedure. I think you should break them in half just to make sure you dont exhaust everything entirely to get the best results. Once you burn through everything now its going to be painful to come back from. I think slow and steady wins you the race now. Small ops like the one on your crown is a good start. I also think if you have patience, perhaps, over time some of the beard hairs will soften and settle.

 

Edit: I also think if you cut another strip (FUT) around your previous scar perhaps you could possibly get away with having a linear scar close to the existing one so you can try to be more aggressive with how you save your grafts (assuming the doctor [Konior] is willing to challenge it).

Edited September 9, 2022 by Vann

[Vann]

I also wanted to add, I think SMP will definitely be an option you could explore. I think your tone and contrast would suit you. 

But thats just my personal opinion... i think you could rock it very well.

[track_rat]

31 minutes ago, Vann said:

I also wanted to add, I think SMP will definitely be an option you could explore. I think your tone and contrast would suit you. 

But thats just my personal opinion... i think you could rock it very well.

Thank you, Vann. Yep, that’s probably the very last thing I would do, maybe next year or the year after once I’ve gotten myself situated. Truthfully, I am very closely following Mustang’s approach. I will never achieve close to his results, but his documentation on this forum will help me make improvements. I hope to document the same to help others who’ve gotten themselves in trouble. Hope there’s some success here at the end of the day.

 

 

[track_rat]

40 minutes ago, Vann said:

Yes, exactly this. You need to find an insanely good surgeon to perform the best with what little you have left. I think if you can rock specific hair styles to cover up some scars in the back while still maintaining density elsewhere, thats where you would go. I think the next steps would be to see how much hair you need to make the back and sides appropriate to your length of hair. About how much of that can the doctor remove to blend it all together (for example, if you removed all the hairs around your head to look like a permanent fade type of artistic look between the contrast of the scars, skin, and hair). 

These surgeons are very very limited, expensive, and few do this in one procedure. I think you should break them in half just to make sure you dont exhaust everything entirely to get the best results. Once you burn through everything now its going to be painful to come back from. I think slow and steady wins you the race now. Small ops like the one on your crown is a good start. I also think if you have patience, perhaps, over time some of the beard hairs will soften and settle.

 

Edit: I also think if you cut another strip (FUT) around your previous scar perhaps you could possibly get away with having a linear scar close to the existing one so you can try to be more aggressive with how you save your grafts (assuming the doctor [Konior] is willing to challenge it).

On your point about the strip, I did consider doing this before Eugenix. To take a second strip out and close it up over the first scar. Reasons I opted against were that I’d be even further decreasing the real estate of donor skin on the back of my head. My horseshoe already dips low due to my first strip. I can’t imagine what a second excision would do to the horseshoe dip; presumably bring it even lower? Lastly, with a perfect haircut from my barber, I can barely see the scar. It’s a delicate dance of a perfect fade, too short and you see the strip, too long in certain areas and you see the bulk above the scar. 

There are some weak points (left side above ear), but that can be filled in to look completely homogenous with as little as 40 scalp or body grafts. 

I’d rather keep doing the FUE route in a slow and steady fashion so we can homogeneously deplete, while keeping the existing strip hidden.

[mrmane85]

Glad to hear that things are slowly moving in the right direction mate. 

Considering Koniors cost, would you consult with Dr Nadimi? She's producing excellent results and works closely with Konior.

The other person I would speak with would be Dr Bisanga who specialises in difficult repairs. He is in Europe but it might be a good excuse for a small holiday, you certainly deserve it! 

Keep your positive mindset and continue with a step by step approach and you'll not only get a pleasing outcome but will be able to inspire and guide many others. 

Edited September 9, 2022 by mrmane85

[track_rat]

Hey brothers, does anybody know of some good example links handy that demonstrate end healing/skin result of raising a hairline with significant extractions of poorly placed grafts? One example I can think of is HairNTear, but the hairline wasn’t necessarily raised that much. Also, this is a long shot, but have we encountered anybody in similar shoes with a fully bearded crown that they have endeavored to have removed? I don’t wish this pain on anyone, but trying to read and inform myself as much as I can this year. This is a tremendous mistake I’m trying to bounce back from, with the ramifications being costly in terms of being a multi-year affair to remedy. I was in my prime before this.

[RTC]

I understand your pain bro... Having your physical prime robbed is a horrible feeling. I hope you can remedy this and find some peace

[Berba11]

On 9/16/2022 at 3:38 AM, track_rat said:

Hey brothers, does anybody know of some good example links handy that demonstrate end healing/skin result of raising a hairline with significant extractions of poorly placed grafts? One example I can think of is HairNTear, but the hairline wasn’t necessarily raised that much. Also, this is a long shot, but have we encountered anybody in similar shoes with a fully bearded crown that they have endeavored to have removed? I don’t wish this pain on anyone, but trying to read and inform myself as much as I can this year. This is a tremendous mistake I’m trying to bounce back from, with the ramifications being costly in terms of being a multi-year affair to remedy. I was in my prime before this.

Couple of great examples from Dr Feriduni on this forum that you’ll find via the search function. 
 

Dr Ed Ball in the UK is also superb with hairline extractions. 

[mrmane85]

42 minutes ago, Berba11 said:

Couple of great examples from Dr Feriduni on this forum that you’ll find via the search function. 
 

Dr Ed Ball in the UK is also superb with hairline extractions. 

Agree with Feriduni. He is an expert when it comes to this. 

@track_rat check out a repair form this forum: https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/57225-succesful-repair-ongoing-with-dr-feriduni-in-belgium/#comment-546903

@L0kedo you have any other examples of Dr Feriduni raising hairlines?

Edited September 17, 2022 by mrmane85

[A Fue Good Men]

On 9/15/2022 at 7:38 PM, track_rat said:

Hey brothers, does anybody know of some good example links handy that demonstrate end healing/skin result of raising a hairline with significant extractions of poorly placed grafts? One example I can think of is HairNTear, but the hairline wasn’t necessarily raised that much. Also, this is a long shot, but have we encountered anybody in similar shoes with a fully bearded crown that they have endeavored to have removed? I don’t wish this pain on anyone, but trying to read and inform myself as much as I can this year. This is a tremendous mistake I’m trying to bounce back from, with the ramifications being costly in terms of being a multi-year affair to remedy. I was in my prime before this.

Hey man, have you had this discussion with Konior in terms of your goals and creation of a “draft” plan? If you’re happy with what he’s done so far, why change? He’s a straight shooter and will tell you how it is, as you likely know already.

 

I personally don’t think there’s a better repair surgeon out there. He’s seen some pretty gnarly cases that he’s managed to repair.

[track_rat]

6 minutes ago, 5BetaReductase said:

Hey man, have you had this discussion with Konior in terms of your goals and creation of a “draft” plan? If you’re happy with what he’s done so far, why change? He’s a straight shooter and will tell you how it is, as you likely know already.

 

I personally don’t think there’s a better repair surgeon out there. He’s seen some pretty gnarly cases that he’s managed to repair.

Got a follow up with him in person in early November to plan in detail. I’ll let you know how it goes. Agree he is a good man and will tell me how it is, no bs.

[Vann]

Also, have you ever considered Zarev. I have seen some patients 6-10k grafts taken and it looks magnificent. I think he could do wonders but its worth a shot to reach out and see what he would do in your situation as well.

[track_rat]

1 hour ago, Vann said:

Also, have you ever considered Zarev. I have seen some patients 6-10k grafts taken and it looks magnificent. I think he could do wonders but its worth a shot to reach out and see what he would do in your situation as well.

Zarev is intriguing. His results are stellar, but from what I remember seeing, they were on virgin scalps? I’m clearly a very complicated situation at this stage and need a repair expert(s) as I’ve gotten myself into trouble. 
 

Appreciate the constructive thoughts though guys. Thank you for wanting to help.

[track_rat]

On 9/17/2022 at 4:56 AM, mrmane85 said:

Agree with Feriduni. He is an expert when it comes to this. 

@track_rat check out a repair form this forum: https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/57225-succesful-repair-ongoing-with-dr-feriduni-in-belgium/#comment-546903

@L0kedo you have any other examples of Dr Feriduni raising hairlines?

This is incredible! Wow. Thank you for sharing with me. That looked like such a difficult case, and he raised it considerably. Just incredible.

[mrmane85]

How is everything going @track_rat? 

[track_rat]

6 hours ago, mrmane85 said:

How is everything going @track_rat? 

Hey man, thanks for checking on me. No material updates. Just one day at a time right now.

I’m scheduled to meet with Konior for a discussion/consult/advice in a couple weeks. I’m hoping to get in front of more experts for advice in the coming months as well. Wish me luck.

I was very encouraged by what Feriduni did with a botched hairline. Thank you and Berba for sharing that case. I’m confident that any of my hairline concerns can be fixed. Same with my beard/mandible. Not too concerned about those.

My issue right now isn’t just removing beard hairs from the crown, it’s figuring out how to construct a natural male crown. There are 250-300 some odd scalp hairs that are implanted directly in the center of my crown where the whorls initiate their direction. Removing beard hairs would leave the surrounding region weak, and the central area unnaturally strong. Some expert surgeon is going to need to find a way to construct an inverse of this (strengthening the weak outer ring of the crown that Eugenix didn’t implant into, removing beard hairs and reinforcing with scalp hairs, and removing or purposefully weakening the dead center of the crown to more closely resemble a naturally thinning male in his mid 30’s).

What you see on my head right now is the result of cursory planning and what I’m coming to believe was an unethical procedure as each day passes. It looks terrible, and I wish I could go back to my preop state everyday.

I’ll report back after some consults and after I learn what’s possible / realistic. Doing my best to stay optimistic here. Just want to get back to my old life, regain confidence, dating, going out in public without a hat regularly, etc. 

Here’s a quick refresher of my preop pic in India:

And what I was left with (these are pre Konior extraction of the few hundred grafts). This is a terrible result.

[Gatsby]

@track_rat have you thought of straight perming your scalp hair?

[Z--]

On the bright side, the last picture looks much better.

Completely agreed that the crown whorl should take priority instead of filling in the center. Good luck on the next surgery.