Painful decade long journey. 34 yo | 3x HT

[track_rat]

Thank you all so much for feedback and encouragement. Wanted to show some more detailed photos that I took along the way. Time is a bit of a blur when you have this many procedures so I don’t have the best accounting of dates etc. but the photos should tell a good story in chronology. There’s a long span between a lot of these photos as I wasn’t taking frequent progress photos. The best thing for my mental health was to just trust the process and to try and forget. This has definitely been an absurdly difficult ordeal. I lost time, relationships, confidence, memories I could have been making. And a lot of time was spent indoors hiding. I’m thankful to be out and about now and am humbled by where I came from.

How the back of my head used to show prior to mwamba/Konior

More detailed Konior work. I should note that I have no idea how many exact grafts were removed. We talked after the procedure and there wasn’t really a count. It was a see as we go approach and I fully appreciate that he did this. Took out as many beard grafts as he could in the right areas to give my head a more normal shape without the helmet fluff, and the redistribution on the horseshoe was just amazing. Someone once said he can make 500 grafts look like a thousand, and it’s true. I can’t wait for him to work on the top of my head now - where it really will show! 

 

My beard prior to mwamba. I despised this look. It was so obvious that something was off. And he restored my confidence. The strength in my jawline was completely taken away by eugenix.

 

More mwamba back of head restoration:

Hairline evening and dirty graft removal:

Current state, no concealer or enhancements.

 

Edited April 28 by track_rat

[GeneralNorwood]

First time in this thread, thanks to @Berba11, because he mentioned you in another topic. It took some time to read whole journey, but it was worth it. 

When i thought about biggest Sethi's flops with beard hair transplant, it was the case of guy named Tony. Now i believe he dissapeared from the forum. Eugenix didn't care about him, so they are propably happy that he "diasapeared". But the forum remembers...  

 

Looking at your case, Eugenix made 2 major f*ckups : 

1. So called "bird nest". And that's what happens when you use beard as the main donor(Not as 10-20% addition) and they are doing it over and over for different patients. It was just a cash grab, with no long-term plan

2. Bad extraction from the beard caused visible thining. And i really get it, because i like to grow beard too. I can only imagine how annoying something like this would be for me. 

We are doing HTs to improve our balding situation. So it is just terrible when after HT the situation becomes worse. And then you are dragged in long and exausting journey, you have to travel around the world to see different surgeons and not mentioning expenses that will tripple or quadruple. That mental and financial costs could be avoided if we had HT in the right place.

 

And your surgery was done not by some juniors from Eugenix, who are not recommended by hairrestorationnetwork. The surgery was done by "super duo", Dr. Sethi and Dr Arika Bansal, the owners of the Eugenix, who are recommended by this forum. 

 

Eugenix gets huge cash flow because of this forum, that's a fact. However this forum is not protecting it's members in case of undeniably bad results. I think this forum should take responsibility for recommended surgeons and mediate in cases like this. 

 

What Eugenix proposed to repair this situation was BS. They said that to fix "bird nest" you should just use some gel and cut it shorter. Ridiculous. And to fix thining in the beard they offered 100-300 grafts, but you should bear costs of travel. So generous...

After losing trust in clinic because of subpar result and such poor proposition of correcting things, no surprise that you started to look for surgeons with real solution. 

 

 

Here we are, after years of misery, it seems that "bird nest" fiasco is finally over and beard looks fuller. 

So the next step is treating the top with scalp grafts. Can you show some photos of the top from various angles? 

 

I wish you the best and i believe that with new "team" that you found, you will further improve your situation 👊

 

 

Edited April 28 by GeneralNorwood

[GoliGoliGoli]

5 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

And your surgery was done not by some juniors from Eugenix, who are not recommended by hairrestorationnetwork. The surgery was done by "super duo", Dr. Sethi and Dr Arika Bansal, the owners of the Eugenix, who are recommended by this forum. 

It's one thing that Sethi and Bansal did a terrible hair transplant. That would at least be excusable in the "all clinics have bad results" sense. But what makes it clear that they're an unethical clinic (In this case in others) is how the result is bad  due to lazy/poor planning, and then also how bad they are about gaslighting the patients once it's been shown that the result is a botch job.

Sethi and Bansal should not be on the recommended list. It's really that simple. 

[patronovski]

You put chest hair in your back donor, or above your ear where it looked a bit patchy? And did the chest hairs grew well? What about scarring on your chest?

[track_rat]

6 minutes ago, patronovski said:

You put chest hair in your back donor, or above your ear where it looked a bit patchy? And did the chest hairs grew well? What about scarring on your chest?

No scarring chest. Hairs grew well. I need some more on the back of my head as you can see some areas could use a little reinforcement. The ultimate goal after some more sessions with Mwamba and Konior would be smp and call it a day.

still, I’m happy with what he was able to do for me.

Will get a photo after haircut this weekend 

 

[track_rat]

Here’s one from a few months ago. I’m comfortable with the coverage the chest hair provided. Enough to fill the gaps. 

now if I go super short skin fade, things show. So my barber knows to go just a teeny bit longer than what’s shown here. Can’t be perfect at this stage in the game. It’s just about comfortability and confidence 

[patronovski]

6 hours ago, track_rat said:

Here’s one from a few months ago. I’m comfortable with the coverage the chest hair provided. Enough to fill the gaps. 

now if I go super short skin fade, things show. So my barber knows to go just a teeny bit longer than what’s shown here. Can’t be perfect at this stage in the game. It’s just about comfortability and confidence 

I thought chest hair survival rate and coverage was not that good. But in your case it really looks good if i compare with how it was before:

Normal people wouldnt even notice it. Only HT patients can see.
 

Did dr Mwamba shaved your hair or was it unshaven? And how much chest grafts did he use?

 

Edited April 29 by patronovski

[Berba11]

39 minutes ago, patronovski said:

Only HT patients can see.

And even then, only if we're looking at zoomed in pictures and trying to find any evidence of extraction! @track_rat- everything here looks clean as a whistle. No evidence of surgery at all, and I say that as someone who needs to get a better hobby than looking at bloke's heads on the internet everyday!

[track_rat]

58 minutes ago, patronovski said:

I thought chest hair survival rate and coverage was not that good. But in your case it really looks good if i compare with how it was before:

Normal people wouldnt even notice it. Only HT patients can see.
 

Did dr Mwamba shaved your hair or was it unshaven? And how much chest grafts did he use?

 

Thank you sir. I guess I read some caution on this forum about chest graft survivability, but Mwamba didn’t seem to be concerned. And because he wasn’t, I wasn’t. 

My procedure was unshaven. He used 150 or so? In various places around the head. A good chunk can be seen placed strategically here where my donor was weakened.

16 minutes ago, Berba11 said:

And even then, only if we're looking at zoomed in pictures and trying to find any evidence of extraction! @track_rat- everything here looks clean as a whistle. No evidence of surgery at all, and I say that as someone who needs to get a better hobby than looking at bloke's heads on the internet everyday!

Lol thank you Berba. You’re awesome and always encourage me. I love to hear it, cheers!

 

[jjsrader]

Jeez - you deserve so much credit for your iron-will & resolve seeing this through.  I'm seriously impressed - such fortitude in the face of adversity.

When you are done with all this go forth & conquer in whatever future endeavors you choose to engage in!

Well done sir!

Edited April 30 by jjsrader

[patronovski]

14 hours ago, track_rat said:

Thank you sir. I guess I read some caution on this forum about chest graft survivability, but Mwamba didn’t seem to be concerned. And because he wasn’t, I wasn’t. 

My procedure was unshaven. He used 150 or so? In various places around the head. A good chunk can be seen placed strategically here where my donor was weakened.

Lol thank you Berba. You’re awesome and always encourage me. I love to hear it, cheers!

 

Thank you for the picture. I can see the implanted grafts.

You mentioned before:

Step 2: Mwamba | 800 scalp grafts into outer ring, 500 beard grafts combination of filling in beard gaps and also lower horseshoe of head, 500 chest grafts into donor 

So it was total 500 chest grafts or 150? Also, you used 800 scalp grafts. Did dr.Mwamba extracted those also without shaving the donor?

[jason231]

On 4/28/2024 at 11:50 AM, GeneralNorwood said:

First time in this thread, thanks to @Berba11, because he mentioned you in another topic. It took some time to read whole journey, but it was worth it. 

When i thought about biggest Sethi's flops with beard hair transplant, it was the case of guy named Tony. Now i believe he dissapeared from the forum. Eugenix didn't care about him, so they are propably happy that he "diasapeared". But the forum remembers...  

 

Looking at your case, Eugenix made 2 major f*ckups : 

1. So called "bird nest". And that's what happens when you use beard as the main donor(Not as 10-20% addition) and they are doing it over and over for different patients. It was just a cash grab, with no long-term plan

2. Bad extraction from the beard caused visible thining. And i really get it, because i like to grow beard too. I can only imagine how annoying something like this would be for me. 

We are doing HTs to improve our balding situation. So it is just terrible when after HT the situation becomes worse. And then you are dragged in long and exausting journey, you have to travel around the world to see different surgeons and not mentioning expenses that will tripple or quadruple. That mental and financial costs could be avoided if we had HT in the right place.

 

And your surgery was done not by some juniors from Eugenix, who are not recommended by hairrestorationnetwork. The surgery was done by "super duo", Dr. Sethi and Dr Arika Bansal, the owners of the Eugenix, who are recommended by this forum. 

 

Eugenix gets huge cash flow because of this forum, that's a fact. However this forum is not protecting it's members in case of undeniably bad results. I think this forum should take responsibility for recommended surgeons and mediate in cases like this. 

 

What Eugenix proposed to repair this situation was BS. They said that to fix "bird nest" you should just use some gel and cut it shorter. Ridiculous. And to fix thining in the beard they offered 100-300 grafts, but you should bear costs of travel. So generous...

After losing trust in clinic because of subpar result and such poor proposition of correcting things, no surprise that you started to look for surgeons with real solution. 

 

 

Here we are, after years of misery, it seems that "bird nest" fiasco is finally over and beard looks fuller. 

So the next step is treating the top with scalp grafts. Can you show some photos of the top from various angles? 

 

I wish you the best and i believe that with new "team" that you found, you will further improve your situation 👊

 

 

So is eugenix off the table now? whos left for high NW/high graft clincs?

[Berba11]

4 minutes ago, jason231 said:

So is eugenix off the table now? whos left for high NW/high graft clincs?

They're certainly not off the table - they have been and still are responsible for some of the best transformations you'll find anywhere. But I think it's a major advantage to know a lot about HT's and to have a clear and realistic plan for yourself prior to going to Eugenix in order to maximise your chances of a good result. We know that planning can often be very fast or barely existing, that complicated cases can sometimes be treated as being easier than they are and that communication wise, the left hand sometimes doesn't know what the right hand is doing. These are things to bear in mind with Eugenix as it's a big organisation with a lot of moving parts now, whereas a few years ago it was just Dr Arika and Dr Pradeep as a tag team duo and you'd get the best of both of them with full attention and oversight.

Other great higher NW clinics are Pittella, Zarev, Hattingen, H&W. Really any top doctor that knows how to manage donor areas and utilise as many resources as possible, such as FUT, beard or other body hair etc... will do a good job on higher NW cases, but certainly the three I mentioned there are known for their expertise in larger sessions.

[GeneralNorwood]

1 hour ago, jason231 said:

So is eugenix off the table now? whos left for high NW/high graft clincs?

You can go to Eugenix if you are on a budget, but this choice can lead to situation where HT's will consume part of your life.

 

Zarev is like top1, but it is hard to get HT with him, because of long waiting list. Then there is dr Sever Muresanu, very ethical doctor and very detailed.

Pittella is the cheapest option per graft from this trio, but still it is not budget option. and you have to fly to South America. 

 

Laorwong, maybe he is best budget option, many people are recommending him on this forum,though i don't know many his cases. But definately he is worth researching.

Some recent case to follow, i am curious how final result will look like : Absolute Hair Clinic | Dr. Kongkiat Laorwong | FUE 4128 | 45M | NW6 | October 2023 - Page 3 - Hair Transplant Reviews - Hair Restoration Network - Community For and By Hair Loss Patients

 

 

Edited May 7 by GeneralNorwood

[jason231]

1 hour ago, GeneralNorwood said:

You can go to Eugenix if you are on a budget, but this choice can lead to situation where HT's will consume part of your life.

 

Zarev is like top1, but it is hard to get HT with him, because of long waiting list. Then there is dr Sever Muresanu, very ethical doctor and very detailed.

Pittella is the cheapest option per graft from this trio, but still it is not budget option. and you have to fly to South America. 

 

Laorwong, maybe he is best budget option, many people are recommending him on this forum,though i don't know many his cases. But definately he is worth researching.

Some recent case to follow, i am curious how final result will look like : Absolute Hair Clinic | Dr. Kongkiat Laorwong | FUE 4128 | 45M | NW6 | October 2023 - Page 3 - Hair Transplant Reviews - Hair Restoration Network - Community For and By Hair Loss Patients

 

 

First time hearing about them. I will definetly look them up. I rather just do it right the first time with the best. This is zarev's website correct? https://www.hairtransplantation.bg/index.php/en/

[Darryl Darby]

6 hours ago, GeneralNorwood said:

You can go to Eugenix if you are on a budget, but this choice can lead to situation where HT's will consume part of your life.

 

Zarev is like top1, but it is hard to get HT with him, because of long waiting list. Then there is dr Sever Muresanu, very ethical doctor and very detailed.

Pittella is the cheapest option per graft from this trio, but still it is not budget option. and you have to fly to South America. 

 

Laorwong, maybe he is best budget option, many people are recommending him on this forum,though i don't know many his cases. But definately he is worth researching.

Some recent case to follow, i am curious how final result will look like : Absolute Hair Clinic | Dr. Kongkiat Laorwong | FUE 4128 | 45M | NW6 | October 2023 - Page 3 - Hair Transplant Reviews - Hair Restoration Network - Community For and By Hair Loss Patients

 

 

Pitella at $5 USD is steep

[Gatsby]

On 4/30/2024 at 7:19 AM, track_rat said:

Thank you sir. I guess I read some caution on this forum about chest graft survivability, but Mwamba didn’t seem to be concerned. And because he wasn’t, I wasn’t. 

My procedure was unshaven. He used 150 or so? In various places around the head. A good chunk can be seen placed strategically here where my donor was weakened.

Lol thank you Berba. You’re awesome and always encourage me. I love to hear it, cheers!

 

The good thing @track_rat with your donor farming is not only getting your density back. You are also vascularizing that area of scalp as well. This should, in theory, make this area better in terms of not only blood flow but helping those chest hairs to grow at their optimum best. 👍 I have chest hair in my scalp also and I can feel the thickness. This will be the best repair of the forum by the end of the year without doubt. 👌💯

[sekiro109]

just caught up with this thread. Can anyone with more experience say why/how Eugenix messed this one up, especially since it was performed by their top surgeons?

 

I was planning on going with Eugenix since it appears to be highly recommended on this forum but reading this thread has me really worried now..

[track_rat]

You’re probably fine. Someone said earlier in the thread that I’ve been too lenient on them, but truth of the matter is I went to them because my research pointed to them being among the best. They obviously continue to put out incredible results. And I’ve been pleading with Sethi for a few years now to try and fix me, but enough damage was done by me posting in here that they probably felt it in their best interests to cut ties with me.

They did give me back some of my funds which amounted to approx 1/5th total surgery cost. 

Anyways, there was never any acknowledgment of this being a poor surgery but they were kind to me. I would still want Sethi to do work on me if circumstances were different. He goes the extra 100 miles for patients he connects with and really cares about. And I wanted to be one of those patients.

 

[track_rat]

I was a tough case. I gave them restrictions on where they could pull scalp hair from given the damage that ARTAS had done. I have a double whirl cowlick. And I didn’t have a virgin scalp, though I’ve learned it’s actually in pretty decent shape and has enough arsenal for Konior to still change my life.

I selected both surgeons which became very disjointed - one surgeon was the lead (Bansal) who did the planning, drawing, decisions on what hairs were implanted where, and all the extractions. While the other surgeon was in charge of slits (Sethi). So I had very limited time with Sethi in the two days I was there. 

I have no agenda to bash Eugenix, but I will continue to give my most honest accounting of what happened.
 

[Buffaloboy]

On 9/6/2022 at 11:14 PM, track_rat said:

Sorry guys, one more. I noticed quite a few of these in the hairline and they’re different in texture from the rest of the hairline implanted hair. I want to think that the possibility of these being heard hairs is impossible, and too crazy of a mistake for the clinic to do. But, I plucked one beard hair from my crown to compare. And they look the same don’t they?

Left is a crown beard hair. Right is the hairline hair that I showed you yesterday. There are several of these in the front of the hairline and peak. 

Apologies for the paranoia, but I have had terrible luck thus far, and this kind of thing wouldn’t surprise me too much. 

On 9/7/2022 at 12:11 AM, Gatsby said:

With the greatest of respect, if Dr Arika Bansal extracted and oversaw the implantation of your hairline I highly doubt that beard grafts would have been used. The hairline is generally done first along with the scalp grafts extracted. Beard grafts are extracted after this. Perhaps the best thing to do is to contact Dr Arika for confirmation.

My surgery with Eugenix was a 3 day procedure. The beard hairs were on the final day and meant to fill in the mid-scalp. The hair-line and crown were already done.

However, I thought I felt them (on day 3) get close to my hair line at one point when they were doing the beard hairs. I stopped them and asked “you’re not putting beard hair near the hairline, are you?”. They assured me that they weren’t, but it sure felt pretty close to my hairline. I convinced myself that I was just numb and couldn’t tell. It’s very possible.

That being said, IF I see any beard hairs near my hairline in 6 months, I will personally fly back to India to confront them over this.

Sorry to see they did that to you Track Rat.

[GeneralNorwood]

1 hour ago, track_rat said:

They did give me back some of my funds which amounted to approx 1/5th total surgery cost. 

Wow, you had some "luck" or things just changed, because they didn't offer me anything, not even tiny touch-up.

Maybe because i didn't ask them?  Anyway, for me it was about getting good HT result, so even when Eugenix last words to me were "You are not alone", then silence came and that's how we ended our cooperation  

Edited Saturday at 11:12 PM by GeneralNorwood

[sekiro109]

1 hour ago, track_rat said:

You’re probably fine. Someone said earlier in the thread that I’ve been too lenient on them, but truth of the matter is I went to them because my research pointed to them being among the best. They obviously continue to put out incredible results. And I’ve been pleading with Sethi for a few years now to try and fix me, but enough damage was done by me posting in here that they probably felt it in their best interests to cut ties with me.

They did give me back some of my funds which amounted to approx 1/5th total surgery cost. 

Anyways, there was never any acknowledgment of this being a poor surgery but they were kind to me. I would still want Sethi to do work on me if circumstances were different. He goes the extra 100 miles for patients he connects with and really cares about. And I wanted to be one of those patients.

 

thanks for the response. With Dr. Mwamba - did you have your procedure done at his USA office or Belgium?

[track_rat]

46 minutes ago, GeneralNorwood said:

Wow, you had some "luck" or things just changed, because they didn't offer me anything, not even tiny touch-up.

Maybe because i didn't ask them?  Anyway, for me it was about getting good HT result, so even when Eugenix last words to me were "You are not alone", then silence came and that's how we ended our cooperation  

I certainly spent a lot of time pleading with them and asking for this, so ultimately they gave me back what they thought was fair.

39 minutes ago, sekiro109 said:

thanks for the response. With Dr. Mwamba - did you have your procedure done at his USA office or Belgium?

My first procedure was in the US, my second was in Belgium. I prefer the Belgium experience as he’s very much in his element there. Everything at his fingertips and the other Drs there are very welcoming. I feel like family when I arrive. I was in Europe for business a few months ago and dropped in on them with one day notice to see if Dr. Mwamba had time for a quick 5 min hello. He ended up spending 30 + min with me on a busy day and even let me hang around to sit in on an SMP procedure with one of the smp specialists. I’ll continue doing Belgium for the follow up sessions.

[track_rat]

Another area that I feel was done with poor planning was the hairline. It’s entirely way too low with an unnatural dip, that would only continue to look more unnatural as I grow older. Mwamba has picked away at this in the last couple surgeries as you’ve probably seen in earlier photos. He’s also worked on reconstructing some strength in the hairline and temple points / corners. It’s minor when you consider net grafts moved, but I think it’s made quite a difference. It really is unfortunate how much reversing and repair work we’ve had to do.

Anyways, I think I’ve made some progress thankfully. I will likely do one more pass to redistribute the hairs that I’ve parted down in the photos below. I am much happier with a more linear look higher up above the vertical plane of forehead, as it looks much more natural and strong (not to mention manageable and easier to style).

Mwamba asked me in our last session to cut the individual hairs that I wanted extracted from the hairline. I will do the same in our next session using the below as an approximation. 

There is some toppik in these photos and lighting is very favorable.