Xyon Topical Dutasteride User Trial (2) - Discussion, Comments and Questions

[Follicle1984]

7 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I got my blood work pre-using it, but I wanted to give it six months before retesting. So far, I’ve been using it 4x per week. I use one pump and a half. But I don’t use it daily. No sides thus far, and I just got my new bottle over the weekend. One bottle lasted me a little over 2 months.

Thanks Melvin. Yes I watched your YouTube video on this subject. Really great you are logging it like this. Can I ask...what have been your experiences with finasteride? Apologies if you've gone into depth with these before...feel free to direct me to another thread. I know you had sides with it. Just wondered how long they took to manifest? Guess if you've done two months with topical dut that's pretty good going. I doubt sides are going to kick in for you now to be honest. 

[Melvin- Admin]

51 minutes ago, Follicle1984 said:

Thanks Melvin. Yes I watched your YouTube video on this subject. Really great you are logging it like this. Can I ask...what have been your experiences with finasteride? Apologies if you've gone into depth with these before...feel free to direct me to another thread. I know you had sides with it. Just wondered how long they took to manifest? Guess if you've done two months with topical dut that's pretty good going. I doubt sides are going to kick in for you now to be honest. 

I took finasteride for 1 month back in 07 when I was 21/22. I developed side effects at the end of the month. I was taking 1.25 mg of proscar. The sides didn’t subside until the end of 07. I stopped taking it around May, so it was a good 6 months of sides. 

I then tried RU as well but also stopped due to sides that was in 2014. I was skeptical on topical finasteride, and especially dutasteride because all of the horror stories I was still hearing. But I’m honestly happy I tried it. I don’t use it daily, which I think is key for me. 3-4x a week with 2 pumps is good for me.

Everything is going good in terms of libido and sex drive thank god 😅 morning wood is normal too. I’ve seen some reports of getting side effects immediately, but I think that’s nocebo. In my experience, not even oral fin develop sides after one use. It usually takes weeks for it to build up.

[Follicle1984]

6 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I took finasteride for 1 month back in 07 when I was 21/22. I developed side effects at the end of the month. I was taking 1.25 mg of proscar. The sides didn’t subside until the end of 07. I stopped taking it around May, so it was a good 6 months of sides. 

I then tried RU as well but also stopped due to sides that was in 2014. I was skeptical on topical finasteride, and especially dutasteride because all of the horror stories I was still hearing. But I’m honestly happy I tried it. I don’t use it daily, which I think is key for me. 3-4x a week with 2 pumps is good for me.

Everything is going good in terms of libido and sex drive thank god 😅 morning wood is normal too. I’ve seen some reports of getting side effects immediately, but I think that’s nocebo. In my experience, not even oral fin develop sides after one use. It usually takes weeks for it to build up.

Thanks Melvin. Interesting to hear your story. 

Yes I agree, instant side effects after just one dose seem much more likely to be driven by psychosomatic factors than purely physical ones to me.

Like you, my finasteride sides usually seem to appear around the 3 to 4 week mark, at least most notably. 

I'm really glad the topical dutasteride is working for you. It still seems scary stuff to me with such high doses of dutasteride in there, but hopefully we will get more data on its effectiveness and safety soon. I must admit, if it was available in the UK, I'd probably give it a go with a very small application and just start once every few weeks and increase from there. I've emailed xyon afew times and they say they are working on getting that set up. There are other private clinics here which sell/prescribe topical dutasteride, so presume its possible. 

[ALittelTeal]

9 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I took finasteride for 1 month back in 07 when I was 21/22. I developed side effects at the end of the month. I was taking 1.25 mg of proscar. The sides didn’t subside until the end of 07. I stopped taking it around May, so it was a good 6 months of sides. 

I then tried RU as well but also stopped due to sides that was in 2014. I was skeptical on topical finasteride, and especially dutasteride because all of the horror stories I was still hearing. But I’m honestly happy I tried it. I don’t use it daily, which I think is key for me. 3-4x a week with 2 pumps is good for me.

Everything is going good in terms of libido and sex drive thank god 😅 morning wood is normal too. I’ve seen some reports of getting side effects immediately, but I think that’s nocebo. In my experience, not even oral fin develop sides after one use. It usually takes weeks for it to build up.

I use Xyon Dut every other day, and am able to make one pump spread evenly about my crown and frontal third and hairline area. I’d say 75% goes to the frontal third area as my crown isn't too thin yet. Do you think that should be sufficient in the long run?

[Follicle1984]

21 hours ago, TRC79 said:

This is the part I am unsure of going with Xyon's, monthly/quarterly subscriptions. I would like to do the same where I know a bottle will last me a lot more than a month. Do you know if they can accommodate holding off shipment until you are ready for next bottle? I don't see this info anywhere on their page.

How much does it cost exactly? Can you choose to only buy one canister or must it be a subscription only?

[Melvin- Admin]

4 hours ago, ALittelTeal said:

I use Xyon Dut every other day, and am able to make one pump spread evenly about my crown and frontal third and hairline area. I’d say 75% goes to the frontal third area as my crown isn't too thin yet. Do you think that should be sufficient in the long run?

One pump should be enough. As long as the majority is being used in the area you need it most.

[TRC79]

8 hours ago, Follicle1984 said:

How much does it cost exactly? Can you choose to only buy one canister or must it be a subscription only?

I was under the assumption it was subscription only, though I am not sure that's why I as asking @Melvin- Moderator if they had the option to just do bottle orders as needed. Ive sent them an email asking this as well.

Edited April 12, 2023 by TRC79

[Melvin- Admin]

55 minutes ago, TRC79 said:

I was under the assumption it was subscription only, though I am not sure that's why I as asking @Melvin- Moderator if they had the option to just do bottle orders as needed. Ive sent them an email asking this as well.

I believe you could just cancel your subscription, and then redo it when you need another bottle. I think you might also be able to work it out with the prescribing dermatologist. Recommended dose is daily, but your dermatologist may prescribe you for 3-4x per week. In that instance you wouldn’t need a bottle each month. 

[Follicle1984]

In all honesty I can't see why you would need to take topical dutasteride more than once a week at most. It's half life is so long. I beleive once it binds to the 5AR enzyme it does not let go, and the time to recover 5AR enzyme levels is reportedly quite long (like a 30 day "reverse half life" to get back 50% 5AR in the tissues...or around those figures). Dutasteride mesotherapy is only given at a dose of 0.1mg and sometimes only monthly or even 3 monthly. So presumably even if 0.1mg gets to where it needs to via any topical route, I can see no good reason it should be used so frequently. 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Follicle1984

[Melvin- Admin]

3 hours ago, Follicle1984 said:

In all honesty I can't see why you would need to take topical dutasteride more than once a week at most. It's half life is so long. I beleive once it binds to the 5AR enzyme it does not let go, and the time to recover 5AR enzyme levels is reportedly quite long (like a 30 day "reverse half life" to get back 50% 5AR in the tissues...or around those figures). Dutasteride mesotherapy is only given at a dose of 0.1mg and sometimes only monthly or even 3 monthly. So presumably even if 0.1mg gets to where it needs to via any topical route, I can see no good reason it should be used so frequently. 

Well, I believe it’s necessary to take a little more frequently because the siloxysytem gel is slow releasing. So you’re not getting a lot in your system with one dose. That’s also why the concentration is higher. That said, I do think one dose a week would still work, but 3-4x is probably better. Daily is probably most effective, just like the oral version. 

Dr. Vaño said based on studies 0.5mg once per week works, but 0.5 4x a week is better than taking fin daily. But 0.5 mg of dut daily is the best. Unfortunately, not even can tolerate it, you gotta find what dosage works best for you. 

[Edsarn2017]

I am really excited about Xyon's topical Dutasteride. Does anyone know if/when it will be available in the UK?

[rj11]

On 4/13/2023 at 11:33 AM, Follicle1984 said:

In all honesty I can't see why you would need to take topical dutasteride more than once a week at most. It's half life is so long. I beleive once it binds to the 5AR enzyme it does not let go, and the time to recover 5AR enzyme levels is reportedly quite long (like a 30 day "reverse half life" to get back 50% 5AR in the tissues...or around those figures). Dutasteride mesotherapy is only given at a dose of 0.1mg and sometimes only monthly or even 3 monthly. So presumably even if 0.1mg gets to where it needs to via any topical route, I can see no good reason it should be used so frequently. 

New to the Forum. Have you possibly tried/looked at LIPODUT - Fue Clinic or topical dutasteride from Farmacia Parati? Also waiting to see if Xyon becomes available in the UK. 

[webathon]

Is it okay to stay on oral finasteride while using topical dut?

[Melvin- Admin]

58 minutes ago, webathon said:

Is it okay to stay on oral finasteride while using topical dut?

It's okay, but if you're already on oral finasteride, there isn't a need to be on topical dut. 

[webathon]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

It's okay, but if you're already on oral finasteride, there isn't a need to be on topical dut. 

Oh I thought in one of your new videos you said topical dut was the new golden standard. Dut is more potent than finasteride right? Why not do both?

[Melvin- Admin]

10 hours ago, webathon said:

Oh I thought in one of your new videos you said topical dut was the new golden standard. Dut is more potent than finasteride right? Why not do both?

It’s the new gold standard because its effective with lower side effects. I mean technically you could do both. No ones ever tried it. 

[TRC79]

On 4/12/2023 at 5:35 PM, Melvin- Moderator said:

I believe you could just cancel your subscription, and then redo it when you need another bottle. I think you might also be able to work it out with the prescribing dermatologist. Recommended dose is daily, but your dermatologist may prescribe you for 3-4x per week. In that instance you wouldn’t need a bottle each month. 

Just got a response back, they are only offering a 3 month subscription, where they will send 1 bottle that will last you 3 month, also stating that the "beyond use date " is only those 180 days. Kinda sucks they don't have a 1 month bottle option that you can extend the 3 months based on use. Seems pretty intentional to keep you from doing that. The 3 month subscription is currently $387, I wonder if I can extend that 1 bottle to 4-6 months, anyone know the true shelf life if I keep the bottle refrigerated ? 

also what's the lowest % they offer ? can you request a low dose since I am diffuse the thinner I would have to probably use 2ml. They would not answer that in the email and only saying that was up to derm to decide. 

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, TRC79 said:

Just got a response back, they are only offering a 3 month subscription, where they will send 1 bottle that will last you 3 month, also stating that the "beyond use date " is only those 180 days. Kinda sucks they don't have a 1 month bottle option that you can extend the 3 months based on use. Seems pretty intentional to keep you from doing that. The 3 month subscription is currently $387, I wonder if I can extend that 1 bottle to 4-6 months, anyone know the true shelf life if I keep the bottle refrigerated ? 

also what's the lowest % they offer ? can you request a low dose since I am diffuse the thinner I would have to probably use 2ml. They would not answer that in the email and only saying that was up to derm to decide. 

From what I understand from other users, you can cancel the subscription and only get charged the first month. That said, I’m not sure one month is enough to know whether the medication is working or not. I would think at least two. But if you get sides canceling is always an option. 

Dosage is discussed with the prescribing dermatologist. Because of the siloxysystem gel and the heavy molecule weight of dutasteride, getting a low percentage doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. 

[TRC79]

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

From what I understand from other users, you can cancel the subscription and only get charged the first month. That said, I’m not sure one month is enough to know whether the medication is working or not. I would think at least two. But if you get sides canceling is always an option. 

Dosage is discussed with the prescribing dermatologist. Because of the siloxysystem gel and the heavy molecule weight of dutasteride, getting a low percentage doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. 

Thanks, they might have changed things recently. The bottle is 90ml for 3 months, and it would renew again after those 3 months. I will prob still give it a shot and maybe extend that bottle out longer and hope it does not lose efficacy. Ive read other topical duts have a shelf life of at least 6 months. 

[yesplease]

On 4/27/2023 at 1:11 PM, Melvin- Moderator said:

From what I understand from other users, you can cancel the subscription and only get charged the first month. That said, I’m not sure one month is enough to know whether the medication is working or not. I would think at least two. But if you get sides canceling is always an option. 

Dosage is discussed with the prescribing dermatologist. Because of the siloxysystem gel and the heavy molecule weight of dutasteride, getting a low percentage doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. 

This is incorrect. They charge you for the 3 month supply upfront before approving your subscription, and they do not offer a refund or cancellation of the subscription prior to the third bottle. 
 

Yes, you likely need more than a one month supply to really appreciate any results. But side effects can certainly arise prior to the complete use of 3 bottles. In my case with their topical fin product, my serum DHT plummeted substantially with just once-weekly application well before I was able to get through the first bottle. 
 

Seems like a bit of a money-grab on their part, given how expensive the product is. They have to be aware that many users will “ease in” to dosing or apply it less frequently than prescribed by the MD, given that it’s a product specifically targeted to folks that are concerned about systemic absorption and/or who have experienced sides in the past. 

[Melvin- Admin]

32 minutes ago, yesplease said:

This is incorrect. They charge you for the 3 month supply upfront before approving your subscription, and they do not offer a refund or cancellation of the subscription prior to the third bottle. 
 

Yes, you likely need more than a one month supply to really appreciate any results. But side effects can certainly arise prior to the complete use of 3 bottles. In my case with their topical fin product, my serum DHT plummeted substantially with just once-weekly application well before I was able to get through the first bottle. 
 

Seems like a bit of a money-grab on their part, given how expensive the product is. They have to be aware that many users will “ease in” to dosing or apply it less frequently than prescribed by the MD, given that it’s a product specifically targeted to folks that are concerned about systemic absorption and/or who have experienced sides in the past. 

I spoke with the prescribing dermatologist that I only intended to use it 3-4x per week. I was sent two bottles within a 2 1/2 month time frame. I believe this is something you have to discuss with the prescribing dermatologist. 

[yesplease]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I spoke with the prescribing dermatologist that I only intended to use it 3-4x per week. I was sent two bottles within a 2 1/2 month time frame. I believe this is something you have to discuss with the prescribing dermatologist. 

Perhaps they will extend the interval at which they send the bottles, once you pay for the three, but they will not allow you to only purchase one bottle. 

Just yesterday I asked Xyon’s patient service rep about only paying for one or two bottles at first and this is the reply I received this morning:

 

“Thank you for your email.

The solution is prepared to supply customers for three months. A one-month supply is not currently available.

As always, please let us know if you have any questions.”

[Melvin- Admin]

Just now, yesplease said:

Perhaps they will extend the interval at which they send the bottles, once you pay for the three, but they will not allow you to only purchase one bottle. 

Just yesterday I asked Xyon’s patient service rep about only paying for one or two bottles at first and this is the reply I received this morning:

 

“Thank you for your email.

The solution is prepared to supply customers for three months. A one-month supply is not currently available.

As always, please let us know if you have any questions.”

Yes, you have to pay all at once, that’s true. It’s my understanding though that you can cancel at any time and only be charged for the most recent fill. In my scenario, I get bottles every 2 months. I believe that’s the best way to go about it. You’re definitely right, it doesn’t take months to develop side effects. I would say if you haven’t had sides by a month, you’re probably not going too, unless you do to many pumps. 

[TRC79]

Well I went ahead and ordered my 3 month bottle. There's currently a 50% off sale so why not I guess. Couple things to keep in mind for anyone else interested:

- 90ml bottle is currently their only option, equivalent of 3 month supply.

- They wont adjust the %. I was told 2% is the ONLY option.

I have done extensive blood work on and off oral and topical finasteride (DIY version) for years now so I have solid historical numbers. I will still get another baseline DHT test before 1st application of topical dut. and will do 1 month of once weekly application and then retest. 

I will keep you guys posted. Best of luck to all. 

 

 

 

[4Godot]

 

 

6 hours ago, TRC79 said:

There's currently a 50% off sale so why not I guess

Good luck! How'd you know about the sale? Do you need a voucher or anything or is it just taken off at checkout?