Xyon Topical Dutasteride User Trial (2) - Discussion, Comments and Questions

[TorontoMan]

Discussion thread for Xyon's Topical Dutasteride user trial and other anecdotes of topical dutasteride usage.  In this thread, feel free to post comments and questions regarding the user trial for Xyon's topical dut formulation, link to that page is here: 

All discussion will take place in this thread in order to not crowd the trial. 

[TorontoMan]

 

I just did my first application of exactly 1 pump and I did it by pouring it onto a small plate first so that I can dab smaller amounts on my fingers and work it into different areas of my scalp. Right away I realize that one pump is definitely not enough of this cream to apply throughout the entire top of my scalp. @Melvin- Moderator wondering if you'll be in contact with Dr. Hasson or anyone from Xyon soon to ask if they have any suggestions for maximizing the application. I'm curious to know if putting into another vehicle would suffice, perhaps something like PG/ETH and give let it dilute and use an applicator with drops on the scalp to get it everywhere more evenly? My immediate thought is that might work against their vehicle which is the whole purpose of this product.

I would like to avoid having to use more of the product per application as 2% per application is pretty strong albeit a lower percentage of it going systemic. In any case would be interested to hear what they suggest, maybe some of the patients in the study used more than 1 application?

[TorontoMan]

@sunsurfhair Please post comments related to the Xyon Topical Dut in this thread

[MrFox]

 

On 2/6/2023 at 8:06 PM, TorontoMan said:

 

I just did my first application of exactly 1 pump and I did it by pouring it onto a small plate first so that I can dab smaller amounts on my fingers and work it into different areas of my scalp. Right away I realize that one pump is definitely not enough of this cream to apply throughout the entire top of my scalp. @Melvin- Moderator wondering if you'll be in contact with Dr. Hasson or anyone from Xyon soon to ask if they have any suggestions for maximizing the application. I'm curious to know if putting into another vehicle would suffice, perhaps something like PG/ETH and give let it dilute and use an applicator with drops on the scalp to get it everywhere more evenly? My immediate thought is that might work against their vehicle which is the whole purpose of this product.

I would like to avoid having to use more of the product per application as 2% per application is pretty strong albeit a lower percentage of it going systemic. In any case would be interested to hear what they suggest, maybe some of the patients in the study used more than 1 application?

I've noticed this as well, it just seems like such a small amount to get in all the areas of your scalp. I have coarser hair in the areas that I'm trying to prevent from balding and it just feels like it gets caught on the follicles instead of on the scalp. I feel like you don't have enough to cover the entire scalp with the daily dose, sides, back, and top. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by MrFox

[TorontoMan]

10 hours ago, MrFox said:

 

I've noticed this as well, it just seems like such a small amount to get in all the areas of your scalp. I have coarser hair in the areas that I'm trying to prevent from balding and it just feels like it gets caught on the follicles instead of on the scalp. I feel like you don't have enough to cover the entire scalp with the daily dose, sides, back, and top. 

Yeah it’s a bit of a problem, it’s not only not enough product per pump, but like you said there is some also being lost to just being stuck on hair. I think it would have been better if it was press across two pumps and maybe in the future they’d change the dosage

[Melvin- Admin]

I apply one dab, comb my hair parted and apply it in to the skin. I then comb my hair forward and rub it in to the crown. One dab covers my entire scalp. My head is small, so maybe that’s why. 

[TorontoMan]

5 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I apply one dab, comb my hair parted and apply it in to the skin. I then comb my hair forward and rub it in to the crown. One dab covers my entire scalp. My head is small, so maybe that’s why. 

Good to know, I also use a hair band to part my hair and then apply it directly to the scalp, so I’ll keep going and hopefully just get better at applying it. Thanks for posting your baseline photos Melvin, it’ll be great to see what it does in the next 4-6 months +

[sunsurfhair]

On 2/10/2023 at 11:59 AM, Melvin- Moderator said:

I apply one dab, comb my hair parted and apply it in to the skin. I then comb my hair forward and rub it in to the crown. One dab covers my entire scalp. My head is small, so maybe that’s why. 

Mel you using it on the hairline too or mainly mid scalp and vertex?

[Melvin- Admin]

3 hours ago, sunsurfhair said:

Mel you using it on the hairline too or mainly mid scalp and vertex?

I rub it in to my entire scalp, but focus mainly in the crown.

[Melvin- Admin]

Here’s a tutorial for anyone interested 

 

[TorontoMan]

Bumping this in hopes that there are any other Xyon users who can share. So far a little over a month consistently for me so I can’t note much, but I haven’t perceived anything in terms sides 

[arthurSam]

You take 1ml every day of 2% ?

Edited March 14, 2023 by arthurSam

[DedLifts]

I started Xyon Dut about a week ago. I started with EOD, but haven't noticed any sides yet.

Applying it isn't that bad, but I'm a diffuse thinner and it makes my hair look awful. Hopefully this will be less of a problem once I start to get some density back.

For now, I'll probably apply after I get home from work during the week, skipping on days when I have an event. On weekends, I'll apply in the morning, and take a shower before going out at night.

[TorontoMan]

On 3/14/2023 at 8:15 AM, arthurSam said:

You take 1ml every day of 2% ?

I'm not sure if this was a question for me, but I realized that I needed just slightly more than a pump to cover my scalp comfortably, so I lather a bit until I do cover my scalp. So it might come out to using slightly more product but I believe its marginal. I section my hair into 4 parts mainly, the bottom of my crown, then to the top of my crown, the mid scalp, and then right up to the hairline. I spend some time working it in with my fingers to make sure it comes off hair and into the scalp. 

[sunsurfhair]

4 hours ago, TorontoMan said:

I'm not sure if this was a question for me, but I realized that I needed just slightly more than a pump to cover my scalp comfortably, so I lather a bit until I do cover my scalp. So it might come out to using slightly more product but I believe its marginal. I section my hair into 4 parts mainly, the bottom of my crown, then to the top of my crown, the mid scalp, and then right up to the hairline. I spend some time working it in with my fingers to make sure it comes off hair and into the scalp. 

Is any of your hair transplanted? If so, do you use this on transplanted hair too?

[Melvin- Admin]

9 hours ago, DedLifts said:

I started Xyon Dut about a week ago. I started with EOD, but haven't noticed any sides yet.

Applying it isn't that bad, but I'm a diffuse thinner and it makes my hair look awful. Hopefully this will be less of a problem once I start to get some density back.

For now, I'll probably apply after I get home from work during the week, skipping on days when I have an event. On weekends, I'll apply in the morning, and take a shower before going out at night.

That’s exactly what I do. I don’t think it’s super necessary to use it daily. I think 4-5x per week is enough. 

[TorontoMan]

15 hours ago, sunsurfhair said:

Is any of your hair transplanted? If so, do you use this on transplanted hair too?

Yeah the hairline is, like 1.5 inches down. I do lather in at the hairline as well slightly, but I prioritize the rest of my scalp

[Follicle1984]

Does anyone using topical dutasteride have any update? Do they feel its working without side effects? Anyone got blood work back?

If I'm honest, the theory just doesn't seem that solid to me (molecular weight not going systemic). Also, studies suggest even 0.1mg of dutasteride has major effects on serum DHT, so it wouldn't take much to start having a big effect systemically. And even dutasteride mesotherapy using 0.1mg dut very infrequently (like once a month or less) was found to lower sperm counts in some, suggesting that dut mesotherapy at least can and does go systemic to some degree. I still cannot get my head around the whole 25mg of dutasteride in xyon thing!

Particularly interested to hear from those who have had side effects from finasteride or oral dutasteride. 

I may start a new thread about dutasteride mesotherapy...have many people hear tried that? At least there is a little more science there and the dose seems a lot less scary. I mean one "episode of good absorption" of the xyon topical dut (even just a couple of milligrams going systemic), could take months to clear your system.

 

[Gatsby]

The only true way to know if this (or any other topical) is going to work is to take the drug and see for yourself. Theory is just that. When theory is applied it becomes knowledge, well at least for the individual. I will be trying a topical finasteride or dutasteride at some point in the coming months and I will definitely be sharing my experience, good or bad. 👍

[Follicle1984]

Agreed Gatsby. Indeed this is the attitude I eventually (after years of paranoid anxiety), took up with regards to finasteride. I tried it. Sadly, every time I take it, after agew months I'm forced to accept I'm not reacting well to it. I know there are many who say it's all nocebo effect, and I accept this is real, and often I tell myself this is what's going on. However, I think it's sadly slightly more than just this for me.

I would just try the topical dutasteride for myself, well I've taken two microdoses over the last 6 months. But I am really rather worried that if this experiment goes wrong, its potentially in my system for a very long time. If dutasteride was just a stronger 5ARi I would have no problem experimenting. Its the long half life that bothers me. Each time I've tried fin, it's taken at least 3 to 6 weeks to feel more normal again. So I don't want this time to increase to 6 months or so. 🤔

I guess I'm answering my own question here...that I'm probably not ready to try topical dut.

The mesotherapy route may be more appropriate for me, as at least we have afew more studies (albeit not many more sadly).

It's great you guys are all trying topical dut here though and at least this gives us some case study-esque evidence. 

[TorontoMan]

4 hours ago, Follicle1984 said:

Does anyone using topical dutasteride have any update? Do they feel its working without side effects? Anyone got blood work back?

If I'm honest, the theory just doesn't seem that solid to me (molecular weight not going systemic). Also, studies suggest even 0.1mg of dutasteride has major effects on serum DHT, so it wouldn't take much to start having a big effect systemically. And even dutasteride mesotherapy using 0.1mg dut very infrequently (like once a month or less) was found to lower sperm counts in some, suggesting that dut mesotherapy at least can and does go systemic to some degree. I still cannot get my head around the whole 25mg of dutasteride in xyon thing!

Particularly interested to hear from those who have had side effects from finasteride or oral dutasteride. 

I may start a new thread about dutasteride mesotherapy...have many people hear tried that? At least there is a little more science there and the dose seems a lot less scary. I mean one "episode of good absorption" of the xyon topical dut (even just a couple of milligrams going systemic), could take months to clear your system.

 

I'm sort of restarting the process again as I foolishly ignored the dosing during application. I was using a bit more product to try to cover my scalp efficiently and ended up using more than 1 pump per application, eventually it began to accumulate systemically and it was giving me some sides. But this is entirely my own fault, as I was ignoring just how much dut I was applying onto my scalp. This time I'm going to strictly start with 1 pump just once a week and wait it out 3-4 months. Sides only started coming up for me when I started being negligent about the amount I was using. 

[Follicle1984]

54 minutes ago, TorontoMan said:

I'm sort of restarting the process again as I foolishly ignored the dosing during application. I was using a bit more product to try to cover my scalp efficiently and ended up using more than 1 pump per application, eventually it began to accumulate systemically and it was giving me some sides. But this is entirely my own fault, as I was ignoring just how much dut I was applying onto my scalp. This time I'm going to strictly start with 1 pump just once a week and wait it out 3-4 months. Sides only started coming up for me when I started being negligent about the amount I was using. 

Thanks for your input.

How long has it taken for sides to start to go away for you TorontoMan?

[TorontoMan]

39 minutes ago, Follicle1984 said:

Thanks for your input.

How long has it taken for sides to start to go away for you TorontoMan?

The surprising thing is it didn't take long for the sides to go away given the long half life of dut, it was like 3-5 days 

[Melvin- Admin]

6 hours ago, Follicle1984 said:

Does anyone using topical dutasteride have any update? Do they feel its working without side effects? Anyone got blood work back?

If I'm honest, the theory just doesn't seem that solid to me (molecular weight not going systemic). Also, studies suggest even 0.1mg of dutasteride has major effects on serum DHT, so it wouldn't take much to start having a big effect systemically. And even dutasteride mesotherapy using 0.1mg dut very infrequently (like once a month or less) was found to lower sperm counts in some, suggesting that dut mesotherapy at least can and does go systemic to some degree. I still cannot get my head around the whole 25mg of dutasteride in xyon thing!

Particularly interested to hear from those who have had side effects from finasteride or oral dutasteride. 

I may start a new thread about dutasteride mesotherapy...have many people hear tried that? At least there is a little more science there and the dose seems a lot less scary. I mean one "episode of good absorption" of the xyon topical dut (even just a couple of milligrams going systemic), could take months to clear your system.

 

I got my blood work pre-using it, but I wanted to give it six months before retesting. So far, I’ve been using it 4x per week. I use one pump and a half. But I don’t use it daily. No sides thus far, and I just got my new bottle over the weekend. One bottle lasted me a little over 2 months.

[TRC79]

40 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I got my blood work pre-using it, but I wanted to give it six months before retesting. So far, I’ve been using it 4x per week. I use one pump and a half. But I don’t use it daily. No sides thus far, and I just got my new bottle over the weekend. One bottle lasted me a little over 2 months.

This is the part I am unsure of going with Xyon's, monthly/quarterly subscriptions. I would like to do the same where I know a bottle will last me a lot more than a month. Do you know if they can accommodate holding off shipment until you are ready for next bottle? I don't see this info anywhere on their page.

Edited April 11, 2023 by TRC79