Xyon Topical Dutasteride User Trial (2) - Discussion, Comments and Questions

[Sunset Dune]

14 minutes ago, jim1973 said:

In the studies I've ready, the liposomal delivery method is more delayed and needs almost 20 hours to deliver entire product.  It doesn't deliver as fast as other carrier vehicles, which reach full potency in 4-8 hours, but its also less likely to cause scalp irritation, so that is the trade-off. 

What about if you apply it daily but wash it off sooner than 20 hours, is it still as effective?

[jim1973]

1 hour ago, Sunset Dune said:

What about if you apply it daily but wash it off sooner than 20 hours, is it still as effective?

I can't speak for the product specifically as I've not tried it.  I'm only speaking about the various carrying agents that can be used in anyone's product.  The liposomal products seem to be the slowest to release/absorb, and thus, need the most time to remain on the scalp.  You'd need to research each product to confirm each's recommendation.  

[mrmane85]

On 6/20/2023 at 2:07 AM, TRC79 said:

Yup, I was concerned about the % of dutasteride so was pleasantly surprised with results. I will def do at least one more test and post here in a few weeks to find out if higher frequency or I might even start doing lil more than 1 pump per application as I am a diffuse thinner and spreading out 1 pump is though, and see if that makes a difference in results. 

Did you end up doing that 2nd test mate? 

[TRC79]

On 7/22/2023 at 3:40 PM, mrmane85 said:

Did you end up doing that 2nd test mate? 

not yet, been on 3x weekly since 7/2. I might schedule something for end of this week/early next week to test again

[TRC79]

On 7/6/2023 at 9:40 AM, Melvin- Moderator said:

I usually apply Xyon in the evening after I shower, and I let it dry for 20-24 hours before washing. 

Are you ever concerned about the whole getting on a pillow and transferring to your significant other ? I saw in prescribing instructions to apply in AM, but then its only on scalp for roughly 12 hours hours before I shower, also I sauna often around 5/6pm and the sweating could be an issue. Considering switching to PM application but don't want it to cause any issues for my wife, plus she sometimes randomly touches my head when we are in bed. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by TRC79

[TRC79]

Update- I ramped up to twice weekly, then 3x weekly and tested my DHT. This time it did show a drop. If we look at my previous test that came in at 50 and compare it to this test that came in at 38, its about a 24% drop. I think for now that's where I am comfortable and will remain for the foreseeable future, 3x weekly. Now for some who say, well guess topical dut does go systemic, I think its well understood all topicals do, its just the matter of how much. Also there is the topic of the metabolites created by the liver of oral medications which could cause problems, that are avoided by doing topical, which is a whole other rabbit hole I don't want to dive into. As for sides, nothing stands out, I have been getting very dry eyes lately and if you chase online possible connections. you will find them lol. It might be the heat we are experiencing and excessive use of the ceiling fan/ac.  Regardless, will monitor it.

The next issue will be efficacy, I am a bit concerned that my slight widows peak area is looking more see through. Its also lost some of it softness, meaning I think I've shed some of the thinner hairs and only the very thick ones have remained. Im hoping this is the good shed with stronger hairs on the horizon. 

That is all for now.

Edited August 8, 2023 by TRC79

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, TRC79 said:

Update- I ramped up to twice weekly, then 3x weekly and tested my DHT. This time it did show a drop. If we look at my previous test that came in at 50 and compare it to this test that came in at 38, its about a 24% drop. I think for now that's where I am comfortable and will remain for the foreseeable future, 3x weekly. Now for some who say, well guess topical dut does go systemic, I think its well understood all topicals do, its just the matter of how much. Also there is the topic of the metabolites created by the liver of oral medications which could cause problems, that are avoided by doing topical, which is a whole other rabbit hole I don't want to dive into. As for sides, nothing stands out, I have been getting very dry eyes lately and if you chase online possible connections. you will find them lol. It might be the heat we are experiencing and excessive use of the ceiling fan/ac.  Regardless, will monitor it.

The next issue will be efficacy, I am a bit concerned that my slight widows peak area is looking more see through. Its also lost some of it softness, meaning I think I've shed some of the thinner hairs and only the very thick ones have remained. Im hoping this is the good shed with stronger hairs on the horizon. 

That is all for now.

Thanks for being so thorough with your testing. Seems to have dropped slightly since upping the frequency, but we should expect to see some differences. Topicals still go systemic, just lower than oral.

[jim1973]

3 hours ago, TRC79 said:

Update- I ramped up to twice weekly, then 3x weekly and tested my DHT. This time it did show a drop. If we look at my previous test that came in at 50 and compare it to this test that came in at 38, its about a 24% drop. I think for now that's where I am comfortable and will remain for the foreseeable future, 3x weekly. Now for some who say, well guess topical dut does go systemic, I think its well understood all topicals do, its just the matter of how much. Also there is the topic of the metabolites created by the liver of oral medications which could cause problems, that are avoided by doing topical, which is a whole other rabbit hole I don't want to dive into. As for sides, nothing stands out, I have been getting very dry eyes lately and if you chase online possible connections. you will find them lol. It might be the heat we are experiencing and excessive use of the ceiling fan/ac.  Regardless, will monitor it.

The next issue will be efficacy, I am a bit concerned that my slight widows peak area is looking more see through. Its also lost some of it softness, meaning I think I've shed some of the thinner hairs and only the very thick ones have remained. Im hoping this is the good shed with stronger hairs on the horizon. 

That is all for now.

Can you summarize what amount (and product with quantities) taken at each of the 4 timeframes listed above?  (Which gave you scores of 28, 15, 50 and 38?)

[TRC79]

4 hours ago, jim1973 said:

Can you summarize what amount (and product with quantities) taken at each of the 4 timeframes listed above?  (Which gave you scores of 28, 15, 50 and 38?)

I wrote up few comments back where my dht levels were on average based on what treatment I was on if you want to check it out. Didn't mean to crop the pic the way I did but here is reference for those values:

28- home made topical fin, .33mg 3 times weekly

15-  .25mg oral fin 3 times weekly

50 - Xyon topical dut 1 time weekly

38- Xyon topical dut 3 times weekly (still better than the home made topical fin )

[TRC79]

quick update, and to be clear this is more or a trial and error situation. I will be taking a break from topical dut due to extremely dry eyes leading to vision issues. Unfortunately I don't know what to attribute it to and have to consider anything recent that can be the cause.  The one thing for sure is that if it is the topical dut, it would not be a nocebo effect as eye health was not ever on my radar, only the sexual side effects of these meds. Again, and not to be overly repetitive but as of now I am NOT attributing to Xyon but have to be sure as vision is not something I want to mess with. Will be also scheduling a full eye exam.

[Melvin- Admin]

13 minutes ago, TRC79 said:

quick update, and to be clear this is more or a trial and error situation. I will be taking a break from topical dut due to extremely dry eyes leading to vision issues. Unfortunately I don't know what to attribute it to and have to consider anything recent that can be the cause.  The one thing for sure is that if it is the topical dut, it would not be a nocebo effect as eye health was not ever on my radar, only the sexual side effects of these meds. Again, and not to be overly repetitive but as of now I am NOT attributing to Xyon but have to be sure as vision is not something I want to mess with. Will be also scheduling a full eye exam.

It’s very wise to eliminate anything that can be contributing, even if unlikely. Hopefully you can get this resolved soon 🙏

[Joseph James]

36 minutes ago, TRC79 said:

quick update, and to be clear this is more or a trial and error situation. I will be taking a break from topical dut due to extremely dry eyes leading to vision issues. Unfortunately I don't know what to attribute it to and have to consider anything recent that can be the cause.  The one thing for sure is that if it is the topical dut, it would not be a nocebo effect as eye health was not ever on my radar, only the sexual side effects of these meds. Again, and not to be overly repetitive but as of now I am NOT attributing to Xyon but have to be sure as vision is not something I want to mess with. Will be also scheduling a full eye exam.

Yep, definitely not nocebo if it's a side effect you weren't even aware of. Had the same thing with finasteride giving me insomnia.

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, TRC79 said:

quick update, and to be clear this is more or a trial and error situation. I will be taking a break from topical dut due to extremely dry eyes leading to vision issues. Unfortunately I don't know what to attribute it to and have to consider anything recent that can be the cause.  The one thing for sure is that if it is the topical dut, it would not be a nocebo effect as eye health was not ever on my radar, only the sexual side effects of these meds. Again, and not to be overly repetitive but as of now I am NOT attributing to Xyon but have to be sure as vision is not something I want to mess with. Will be also scheduling a full eye exam.

I had this as well from topical fin when it went systemic. Should go away in the coming weeks - best of luck. Keep us posted if you do try topical DUT again at lower doses / frequencies.

[hairman4321]

interesting - i am using topical dut too and it may have made my eyes dryer. I had dry eyes before taking it though, so hard to confirm if it got worse or not.

[4chanhrn]

I get severe side effects from finasteride. I've tried microdosing tablets, microdosing topical. Nothing seems to work. This seems worth a shot, but I want to do it once a week at max. I don't want my hair loss to affect my libido in any way.

 

I'm wondering if it's possible to get the 3 pack and then reorder when I run out instead of being forced into a subscription. It feels like there's no point to subscribing if I don't want to use it more than once a week. Or are you just forced into subscribing?

[Melvin- Admin]

It’s a three-month subscription. So you get a three-month supply. But you can always cancel it. 

[hairman4321]

On 8/28/2023 at 7:43 PM, hairman4321 said:

interesting - i am using topical dut too and it may have made my eyes dryer. I had dry eyes before taking it though, so hard to confirm if it got worse or not.

as an update on my topical dut usage (i'm not using xyon though), i massively reduced the dose to just 0.25ml once a week and my eyes are feeling better. the breast sensitivity is also massively reduced.

i think what we need to do if we have side effects is reduce the exposure to the drug until the side effects are no longer present, at least with topical dut. i think this method is most effective with topical dut, with the long life and the fact that it shouldnt penetrate the skin easily. but i can see it working with oral drugs too. there may be reduced benefit, but still a huge benefit compared to not using a dht blocker at all in the long run.

I apply the topical dut just to problem areas (for me, mostly the hairline) and a few drops in the crown for good measure. Because it is so localised, it should have a big impact scalp tissue but not much elsewhere. I think the problems come in when we flood the scalp tissue with too much, that it has to no where else to go but systemically.

i plan to stay at this dosage for a few months and see if my hair is still stabilised (it seems it is so far anyway), and get a DHT blood test. Sadly i have no before blood test, but I want to see if my DHT is in the normal range. I may try increasing or decreasing it slightly for a few months after this and re-rest my DHT to see what the effect was.

[4chanhrn]

22 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

It’s a three-month subscription. So you get a three-month supply. But you can always cancel it. 

Thanks. Got similar reply from Xyon. I think I'll try 1x/week and see where that leads me to.

[4chanhrn]

8 hours ago, hairman4321 said:

as an update on my topical dut usage (i'm not using xyon though), i massively reduced the dose to just 0.25ml once a week and my eyes are feeling better. the breast sensitivity is also massively reduced.

i think what we need to do if we have side effects is reduce the exposure to the drug until the side effects are no longer present, at least with topical dut. i think this method is most effective with topical dut, with the long life and the fact that it shouldnt penetrate the skin easily. but i can see it working with oral drugs too. there may be reduced benefit, but still a huge benefit compared to not using a dht blocker at all in the long run.

I apply the topical dut just to problem areas (for me, mostly the hairline) and a few drops in the crown for good measure. Because it is so localised, it should have a big impact scalp tissue but not much elsewhere. I think the problems come in when we flood the scalp tissue with too much, that it has to no where else to go but systemically.

i plan to stay at this dosage for a few months and see if my hair is still stabilised (it seems it is so far anyway), and get a DHT blood test. Sadly i have no before blood test, but I want to see if my DHT is in the normal range. I may try increasing or decreasing it slightly for a few months after this and re-rest my DHT to see what the effect was.

I'm thinking maybe topical dutasteride 1x/week can be supplemented with natural DHT blockers like saw palmetto/pumpkin seed oil, vitamins like biotin, microneedling and oral minoxidil. That's what I'm planning to do. At end of the day there's no point in doing things that you can't follow long term and everything together should be good enough to maintain.

Edited September 17, 2023 by 4chanhue

[jim1973]

10 hours ago, 4chanhue said:

I'm thinking maybe topical dutasteride 1x/week can be supplemented with natural DHT blockers like saw palmetto/pumpkin seed oil, vitamins like biotin, microneedling and oral minoxidil. That's what I'm planning to do. At end of the day there's no point in doing things that you can't follow long term and everything together should be good enough to maintain.

I just received my first dose of topical combo (Finasteride, Dutasteride and Minoxidil) from a compounding pharmacy.  I live in a very hot state and the package was not climate controlled.  When I opened up the envelope, it was hot to the touch.  Question for the group....do you think the heat ruined the active ingredients?  Or do you think as long as I put it back in a room temperature environment, the active ingredients will still work?  (I called the pharmacy and of course, they told me everything will be fine but easy for them to say).  I've seen posts where it states to keep at room temp and others state to refrigerate.  I'm now worried that the product is ruined no matter which I do.  Does anyone know for sure if this batch should work properly or not?  

[Melvin- Admin]

18 hours ago, jim1973 said:

I just received my first dose of topical combo (Finasteride, Dutasteride and Minoxidil) from a compounding pharmacy.  I live in a very hot state and the package was not climate controlled.  When I opened up the envelope, it was hot to the touch.  Question for the group....do you think the heat ruined the active ingredients?  Or do you think as long as I put it back in a room temperature environment, the active ingredients will still work?  (I called the pharmacy and of course, they told me everything will be fine but easy for them to say).  I've seen posts where it states to keep at room temp and others state to refrigerate.  I'm now worried that the product is ruined no matter which I do.  Does anyone know for sure if this batch should work properly or not?  

I had a similar worry. When it was delivered, it was delivered to my mailbox. It was over 100 degrees. I thought it was ruined. But I haven’t noticed a difference. I think its okay as long as it wasn’t hot for several days. 

[jim1973]

57 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I had a similar worry. When it was delivered, it was delivered to my mailbox. It was over 100 degrees. I thought it was ruined. But I haven’t noticed a difference. I think its okay as long as it wasn’t hot for several days. 

Unfortunately the pharmacy is in Indiana and I live in AZ.  The package was definitely exposed to the heat elements for several days before reaching me.  The downside is that there really is no real way to know for sure.  

[RecycleBin]

Just wanted to share blood test results 6 weeks into topical dut treatment. Surprisingly everything is normal and right where it should be unfortunately I don't have baseline DHT data to compare to but the fact that it's not suppressed to the max should be a good indicator of how much it goes systemic. The test was taken about 24hrs after last application. My treatment protocol is 1x a week application Xyon topical dutasteride im still not happy about the megadose in the product or else I would feel comfortable applying it once a day. 

[hairman4321]

21 hours ago, RecycleBin said:

Just wanted to share blood test results 6 weeks into topical dut treatment. Surprisingly everything is normal and right where it should be unfortunately I don't have baseline DHT data to compare to but the fact that it's not suppressed to the max should be a good indicator of how much it goes systemic. The test was taken about 24hrs after last application. My treatment protocol is 1x a week application Xyon topical dutasteride im still not happy about the megadose in the product or else I would feel comfortable applying it once a day. 

this looks good - given the fact we're suffering from MPB it makes sense that we'd have above average DHT, but here you have average DHT. Perhaps it was mildly reduced as a tiny bit has gone systemic? But nothing I would worry about, since you're mid range now. Does it seem to be helping your hair at once a week application?

[RecycleBin]

4 hours ago, hairman4321 said:

this looks good - given the fact we're suffering from MPB it makes sense that we'd have above average DHT, but here you have average DHT. Perhaps it was mildly reduced as a tiny bit has gone systemic? But nothing I would worry about, since you're mid range now. Does it seem to be helping your hair at once a week application?

I do think a very small % does go systemic but not enough to make a difference in day to day life. In terms of results its hard to say for me since I had a HT 6 months ago Im trying to use it to just maintain what I have at this point. Im not seeing any shedding as I used to overall my hair seems healthier and I don't seem to be losing anymore ground. I think if they lowered the dose it'd make it much more tolerable for daily use