Botched Hairtransplantion by HLC clinic in Ancara

[michael hofmann]

5 minutes ago, TrustTheProcess said:

Clearly there is poor growth in the recipient area. You had had 2000 grafts, how many would you say survived, 1000?

So what caused 50% of the grafts to not grow; Did the doctor have a transection rate of 50%? Did he handle 50% of the grafts too aggressively? Were the grafts not implanted at the correct depth? Is it possible that the seeds were fine, and that the soil is just bad?

I really hope to figure this out. I know you created this thread to warn others, or at least use caution when you're surgeon moves ahead with a procedure despite having known you have a skin issue.

I don"t know, but it is really bad work. I have asked two other doctors about this and at the hairline there are multiple grafts in wrong directions implanted. About the skin condition i have ekzemat. or subheroic Dermatitis behind the ears and on my face, but not on the scalp. From the research that i have done or from what i think at least, this is not a risk factor for a hairtranslant. But i am not the professional. They should have warned me not only before the secont ht, before the first ht. 

Anyway, my opinion is that the doctor did a really bad job ant they have destroyed most of this grafts by the procedure.

[michael hofmann]

15 minutes ago, TrustTheProcess said:

Clearly there is poor growth in the recipient area. You had had 2000 grafts, how many would you say survived, 1000?

So what caused 50% of the grafts to not grow; Did the doctor have a transection rate of 50%? Did he handle 50% of the grafts too aggressively? Were the grafts not implanted at the correct depth? Is it possible that the seeds were fine, and that the soil is just bad?

I really hope to figure this out. I know you created this thread to warn others, or at least use caution when you're surgeon moves ahead with a procedure despite having known you have a skin issue.

When the doctor destroys the donor area, i don"t think he pays too much attention about implantation and transection rate.

[Ajamilo]

You had at least an average donor area before the procedure so it is crazy what they have done here. What is ur plan now? 

HLC is a hit or miss clinic who tries to convice people to be a elite clinic. Bicer and Pekiner is the best option in Turkey tbh

[michael hofmann]

7 minutes ago, Ajamilo said:

You had at least an average donor area before the procedure so it is crazy what they have done here. What is ur plan now? 

HLC is a hit or miss clinic who tries to convice people to be a elite clinic. Bicer and Pekiner is the best option in Turkey tbh

I really don"t have a plan now, at least from what i know now what they did to my donor area is really unfixable. I have no beard grafts to use for a BHT in the donor area, smp is not a good idea because of the STRIP-Scar that i have. I have contacted a Doctor who is recommended here about 2 months ago and he was also in schock from this result.

Anyway, ithink i am responsible too for making that choice and believing all they said to me. I mean nobody checked my donor area with the mikrosop to check the density or the minituarisation of the hairs. These are things i did not knew back then. Anyway i really don"t know how to handle this.

[mister_25]

My heartaches for you man. I really hope your able to fix this in anyway. Have you consulted with a elite doctor about repairing? Have you tried to grow out your hair and maybe try some form of hair system on top of it.

This is absolutely criminal, in no way was this just a “subpar” result like some people suggested. This is negligence. 
 

Many people in this thread have acted extremely disrespectful. Some presented reasonable arguments with a opposing opinion which is fine so credit where credit is due. But there is some clear disrespect and shade being thrown at this patient who has provided a emotional painful story and instead of offering support and strong advice you mock him for picking “potato” photos and not knowing how to email himself? Or use MS Paint? Are you guys absolutely sure that if you were in his position you would like to be told that? 

 Michael I am sorry for how you’ve been treated by HLC and also by some people here. I believe as a community dedicated to help patients that we really need to figure out what went wrong here and how to move forward in the most cautious manner. It is clear that this has had such a profound and damaging impact on you and you opened up with your story and added it to the huge list of testimonials. And you deserve nothing but support and the best advice that could possibly be given.

[mister_25]

24 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

I really don"t have a plan now, at least from what i know now what they did to my donor area is really unfixable. I have no beard grafts to use for a BHT in the donor area, smp is not a good idea because of the STRIP-Scar that i have. I have contacted a Doctor who is recommended here about 2 months ago and he was also in schock from this result.

Anyway, ithink i am responsible too for making that choice and believing all they said to me. I mean nobody checked my donor area with the mikrosop to check the density or the minituarisation of the hairs. These are things i did not knew back then. Anyway i really don"t know how to handle this.

Don’t feel responsible, you were taken advantage of and didn’t know better. Everything related to Hair Loss is openly misleading and honestly a taboo topic in society.

I didn’t know Hair Loss medication were a thing until I was Norwood 5 at 20. It’s very easy to fall in the common traps of the war against hair loss, Turkish marketing, snake oil products there are so many obstacles clouding basic knowledge of hair loss that it’s ridiculous.

Everyone knows that chemotherapy is a treatment for cancer, but not everyone knows that propecia is the treatment for hair loss. Never fault yourself for not being in the know, you were manipulated and taken advantage of. It’s as simple as that.

Edited August 4, 2022 by mister_25
Autocorrect spelling mistake

[michael hofmann]

7 minutes ago, mister_25 said:

Don’t feel responsible, you were taken advantage of and didn’t know better. Everything related to Hair Loss is openly misleading and honestly a taboo topic in society.

I didn’t know Hair Loss medication were a thing until I was Norwood 5 at 20. It’s very easy to fall in the common traps of the war against hair loss, Turkish marketing, snake oil products there are so many obstacles clouding basic knowledge of hair loss that it’s ridiculous.

Everyone knows that chemotherapy is a treatment for cancer, but not everyone knows that prophecies is the treatment for hair loss. Never fault yourself for not being in the know, you were manipulated and taken advantage of. It’s as simple as that.

Thanks man. I have hairloss since i was 15 years old. Now at 38 years of age i decided to do something about it and this came out. I mean the way that my donor area looks its just awful. At the first 2-3 months i have had people mocking at me and staring at my head the whole time. I have tried to use toppik but that did not work. I hairpiece at the donor area, i have never seen something like that before. Anyway, as i said i have spoken to a doctor who is recommended here and he was in schock with this result.

[michael hofmann]

18 minutes ago, mister_25 said:

Don’t feel responsible, you were taken advantage of and didn’t know better. Everything related to Hair Loss is openly misleading and honestly a taboo topic in society.

I didn’t know Hair Loss medication were a thing until I was Norwood 5 at 20. It’s very easy to fall in the common traps of the war against hair loss, Turkish marketing, snake oil products there are so many obstacles clouding basic knowledge of hair loss that it’s ridiculous.

Everyone knows that chemotherapy is a treatment for cancer, but not everyone knows that prophecies is the treatment for hair loss. Never fault yourself for not being in the know, you were manipulated and taken advantage of. It’s as simple as that.

I feel responsible because i did not do a proper research and i missinterpretated the signs that those guys gave me. 

[TrustTheProcess]

23 minutes ago, mister_25 said:

But there is some clear disrespect and shade being thrown at this patient who has provided a emotional painful story and instead of offering support and strong advice you mock him for picking “potato” photos and not knowing how to email himself? Or use MS Paint?

One of the photos posted had a resolution of 99x154 pixels, compressed down to 4KB. Effort wasn't shown in a thread where you're trying to state your case against an entire clinic of doctors. Now that clear photos have been provided, he has a leg to stand on.

[Ajamilo]

26 minutes ago, TrustTheProcess said:

One of the photos posted had a resolution of 99x154 pixels, compressed down to 4KB. Effort wasn't shown in a thread where you're trying to state your case against an entire clinic of doctors. Now that clear photos have been provided, he has a leg to stand on.

this is a guy who are suffering and struggling after what has happend to him. But you mocked him and tried to insult him to have a «potato phone». And also not knowing how to email himself photos and also not knowing how to use a MS paint. maybe this is your personality in real life but you owe him an apology for what you wrote to him in this thread
 

[TrustTheProcess]

@michael hofmannI apologize for my behavior in this thread. My jokes usually land, but this wasn't considerate to your situation. 

[mister_25]

45 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

I feel responsible because i did not do a proper research and i missinterpretated the signs that those guys gave me. 

Information on Hairloss isn't widely known. In society, its taboo for men to open up about their personal struggles and feelings. On top of this, Hair loss is a taboo topic. You should not feel bad because you were lied and manipulated into a sale, they knew exactly what buttons to press and with no qualms to being ethical pressed those buttons for the sale.

Hair restoration in general has so many obstacles and pitfalls that you can describe it as a minefield. And getting one in Turkey is the Mother of all bombs. Its not your fault, they are masters at marketing. HLC has a rather strong reputation, even here at a highly critical forum they are regarded as one of the better options in Turkey. In the end, even if you did better research all signs would point to HLC being a good clinic amongst a thousand bad ones.

40 minutes ago, TrustTheProcess said:

One of the photos posted had a resolution of 99x154 pixels, compressed down to 4KB. Effort wasn't shown in a thread where you're trying to state your case against an entire clinic of doctors. Now that clear photos have been provided, he has a leg to stand on.

Regardless if effort was shown or not, the comments were absolutely not needed or necessary. Michael here felt vulnerable enough about his hair loss where he decided that he would take the risk and have surgery to correct it. At the hands of doctors that he put his trust in, he received a poor outcome, you could even debate that the outcome he came out with disfigured his appearance. Michael then tells a story about how this outcome affects his life, he doesn't want his family to see. He clearly said above that people stare at his head and mock him and he wants to share his story. He could be sharing his story to find a solution on a forum "Created by and For Patients" or to help others not fall into the same mistake as he did. You would think that people here would offer support and advice on how to move forward. However, he received messages like these.

On 7/26/2022 at 11:52 PM, TrustTheProcess said:

Seriously, OP can afford HLC twice but has a potato for a phone and doesn’t know how to email himself photos and use MS Paint.

On 7/26/2022 at 11:58 PM, sukh123 said:

At this point well find a cure for hair loss quicker than we can get photos lol

How are comments like these constructive or needed in any way? You might think your making a little bit of light hearted fun but in reality your posting comments that are absolutely unnecessary and damaging. Are these comments what Michael needs to hear? Michael already believes under the false pretenses that this is somehow his fault, and you throwing shade by saying that he doesn't know how to email himself photos? How is he supposed to take this? Have some compassion and empathy man. Would you like to be treated in the same way on the other end?

On 7/26/2022 at 10:52 PM, RTC said:

I do agree that it's kind of unbelievable Michael Hofman doesn't have basic photos.

Every photo is upside down or 30x30 pixels lol. You need to show more if you want to give your account of things more credibility.

This comment gets straight to the point and immediately is constructive. In this comment you can see that RTC told him that his photos do not have credibility because 30x30 pixel photos do not reveal enough. While the previous two are obviously comments making light of a situation that is deadly serious for Michael. 

 

I will not entertain this further, if you want to discuss this. My messages are open.

Edited August 4, 2022 by mister_25

[ITA]

I would like to hear the opinion of @MachoVatohere, as he accused me on this thread of "throwing the reputation of HLC, one of the few Turkish ethical clinics, under a bus"

[Z--]

I think more than one person owes Michael an apology... this is straight up awful work. You demand more than a refund — this was just a shamelessly wasteful use of grafts and the lack of communication / victim blaming is unacceptable. 

More importantly, I think people here really need to grow up and learn to take criticisms of their favorite doctors, both HLC and otherwise. No doctor is perfect and it’s only to our benefit to see how they handle difficult situations. In this thread and with respect to more popular doctors, I’ve noticed that the people who defend suboptimal work in the early phases or due to lack of pictures detailing every step, always seem to go missing once the proof becomes indisputable instead of remarking on the doctor or situation further to help the OP they chastised…🧐

Edited August 4, 2022 by Z--

[Vann]

I think outside of attacking people for their positions and what was said. Let’s not derail this and continue what is really ahead of us. 
 

OP my heart is with you I understand your situation even being an HLC patient recently myself. Once again thank you for sharing your post and continuing your story despite what others are claiming as ad hominem or defense to you. 
 

nonetheless, the next steps I think you should take are seeing what steps HLC will provide to you, not surgically but steps to getting you a repair financially at a doctor that you pick (honestly look at other cases such as yours).

even though you have some great damage that was done to you. It’s not over yet. You still have places, stories, and other people you can review and reference. 

you have mentally endured yourself through your struggles physically with people staring at you as well as mentally by going through this hurdle. 

i will say, there are doctors who can definitely emphasize with how you feel. Some of course are driven financially but given your case some may be motivated in a repair. I would ask @Melvin- Moderator to see if he can reach out to some reputable doctors or maybe even help you come up with a solution with HLC to find some reparations. 
 

i wish you the best man and I hope you continue to update us along the way. 

[ML488]

On 7/26/2022 at 1:40 PM, Melvin- Moderator said:

 

Just curious when exactly was this photo taken? After which transplant

Edited August 4, 2022 by ML488

[MachoVato]

6 hours ago, ITA said:

I would like to hear the opinion of @MachoVatohere, as he accused me on this thread of "throwing the reputation of HLC, one of the few Turkish ethical clinics, under a bus"

I stand by that accusation. You jumped on the bashing bandwagon without good evidence. Today, there are better photos. This is what I see.

 

Before HLC, crown is completely bald. Results from first FUT are very low density and pluggy. Looks like Norwood 6 to me.

 

Crown looks much better 1 year after 1st transplant. Density isn't great, but better. It would look better with longer hair.

 

Donor 1 year after 1st procedure. Looks thinner but totally fine. Not depleted.

 

 

The hairline from the FUT, before HLC touched it. 

 

Hairline post-op after 2nd transplant. HLC implanted into previous transplanted hairs. First time I've seen them do this. At this point, I like it. Shows promise.

 

Today 6 months post op. Lots of improvement. I would still like to see more density even at 6 months. But why on earth did you cut it that short?!

 

Donor today. Only 6 months. I would expect it to recover more. It looks uneven because of the SMP on the scar. It's obviously cut pretty short. I would cut it much shorter (tight fade style), which I would not recommend because of your FUT scar. Or grow it out. But still, not a botched donor.

 

In summary, I'm still on the patient's side. The density on the crown worries me most. I would expect it to be better after 1 year. Maybe the beard grafts didn't grow? I don't know. 

The hairline looks much better than before, which was pretty poor. 6 months is too early to make "botched job" accusations for any transplant. Yes, personally I would expect better density at this point, but every head is different.  And for goodness sake, grow it out! Why did you cut it that short?! Most of our hairlines would look bad if we cut it that short. 

Maybe this is a video @Melvin- Moderator could create. How to grow your hair after a transplant. There are limitations when we remove grafts from the back and implant to the top. How to grow/cut/style our hair contributes to the "illusion of density". 

Edited August 4, 2022 by MachoVato

[RTC]

@MachoVatodo you really believe the donor will continue improving after 6 months? Very very unlikely

[michael hofmann]

24 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

I stand by that accusation. You jumped on the bashing bandwagon without good evidence. Today, there are better photos. This is what I see.

 

Before HLC, crown is completely bald. Results from first FUT are very low density and pluggy. Looks like Norwood 6 to me.

 

Crown looks much better 1 year after 1st transplant. Density isn't great, but better. It would look better with longer hair.

 

Donor 1 year after 1st procedure. Looks thinner but totally fine. Not depleted.

 

 

The hairline from the FUT, before HLC touched it. 

 

Hairline post-op after 2nd transplant. HLC implanted into previous transplanted hairs. First time I've seen them do this. At this point, I like it. Shows promise.

 

Today 6 months post op. Lots of improvement. I would still like to see more density even at 6 months. But why on earth did you cut it that short?!

 

Donor today. Only 6 months. I would expect it to recover more. It looks uneven because of the SMP on the scar. It's obviously cut pretty short. I would cut it much shorter (tight fade style) or grow it out. But still, not a botched donor.

 

In summary, I'm still on the patient's side. The density on the crown worries me most. I would expect it to be better after 1 year. Maybe the beard grafts didn't grown? I don't know. 

The hairline looks much better than before, which was pretty poor. 6 months is too early to make "botched job" accusations for any transplant. Yes, personally I would expect better density at this point, but every head is different.  And for goodness sake, grow it out! Why did you cut it that short?! Most of our hairlines would look bad if we cut it that short. 

Maybe this is a video @Melvin- Moderator could create. How to grow your hair after a transplant. There are limitations when we remove grafts from the back and implant to the top. How to grow/cut/style our hair contributes to the "illusion of density". 

I really think you don"t know what you are talking about.

[michael hofmann]

26 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

I stand by that accusation. You jumped on the bashing bandwagon without good evidence. Today, there are better photos. This is what I see.

 

Before HLC, crown is completely bald. Results from first FUT are very low density and pluggy. Looks like Norwood 6 to me.

 

Crown looks much better 1 year after 1st transplant. Density isn't great, but better. It would look better with longer hair.

 

Donor 1 year after 1st procedure. Looks thinner but totally fine. Not depleted.

 

 

The hairline from the FUT, before HLC touched it. 

 

Hairline post-op after 2nd transplant. HLC implanted into previous transplanted hairs. First time I've seen them do this. At this point, I like it. Shows promise.

 

Today 6 months post op. Lots of improvement. I would still like to see more density even at 6 months. But why on earth did you cut it that short?!

 

Donor today. Only 6 months. I would expect it to recover more. It looks uneven because of the SMP on the scar. It's obviously cut pretty short. I would cut it much shorter (tight fade style) or grow it out. But still, not a botched donor.

 

In summary, I'm still on the patient's side. The density on the crown worries me most. I would expect it to be better after 1 year. Maybe the beard grafts didn't grown? I don't know. 

The hairline looks much better than before, which was pretty poor. 6 months is too early to make "botched job" accusations for any transplant. Yes, personally I would expect better density at this point, but every head is different.  And for goodness sake, grow it out! Why did you cut it that short?! Most of our hairlines would look bad if we cut it that short. 

Maybe this is a video @Melvin- Moderator could create. How to grow your hair after a transplant. There are limitations when we remove grafts from the back and implant to the top. How to grow/cut/style our hair contributes to the "illusion of density". 

And you are dangerous too.

[MachoVato]

14 minutes ago, RTC said:

@MachoVatodo you really believe the donor will continue improving after 6 months? Very very unlikely

Here's my donor recovery.

[ITA]

42 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

6 hours ago, ITA said:

 

I stand by that accusation. You jumped on the bashing bandwagon without good evidence.

Listens I have already written that I was one of those who considered HLC one of the best choices a patient can make to undergo a hair transplant in Turkey (along with Pekiner and Bicer), but with @michael hofmann HLC behaved like one of many mills for hair that is in that country, not taking into account, possibly the Dermatitis or Ekzema that the patient has on the face and above the ears, which in my opinion, has influenced the success of his transplants, the OP says no, but he will never know for sure.  Ethical surgeons (and I gave the example of H&W who rejected a patient for a second procedure, seeing a scalp irritation, could have done it, earning their money, but they didn't), don't just think about money, HLC, here he thought a lot about that.

[Melvin- Admin]

42 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

I stand by that accusation. You jumped on the bashing bandwagon without good evidence. Today, there are better photos. This is what I see.

 

Before HLC, crown is completely bald. Results from first FUT are very low density and pluggy. Looks like Norwood 6 to me.

 

Crown looks much better 1 year after 1st transplant. Density isn't great, but better. It would look better with longer hair.

 

Donor 1 year after 1st procedure. Looks thinner but totally fine. Not depleted.

 

 

The hairline from the FUT, before HLC touched it. 

 

Hairline post-op after 2nd transplant. HLC implanted into previous transplanted hairs. First time I've seen them do this. At this point, I like it. Shows promise.

 

Today 6 months post op. Lots of improvement. I would still like to see more density even at 6 months. But why on earth did you cut it that short?!

 

Donor today. Only 6 months. I would expect it to recover more. It looks uneven because of the SMP on the scar. It's obviously cut pretty short. I would cut it much shorter (tight fade style), which I would not recommend because of your FUT scar. Or grow it out. But still, not a botched donor.

 

In summary, I'm still on the patient's side. The density on the crown worries me most. I would expect it to be better after 1 year. Maybe the beard grafts didn't grow? I don't know. 

The hairline looks much better than before, which was pretty poor. 6 months is too early to make "botched job" accusations for any transplant. Yes, personally I would expect better density at this point, but every head is different.  And for goodness sake, grow it out! Why did you cut it that short?! Most of our hairlines would look bad if we cut it that short. 

Maybe this is a video @Melvin- Moderator could create. How to grow your hair after a transplant. There are limitations when we remove grafts from the back and implant to the top. How to grow/cut/style our hair contributes to the "illusion of density". 

These are strong points. There’s a length to keep the illusion of density. The only concerning thing is the donor, which you pointed is only at 6 months. We need to wait to see how this plays out. But yes, it does look concerning. 

[MachoVato]

14 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

I really think you don"t know what you are talking about.

 

12 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

And you are dangerous too.

 

Oh, I know exactly what I'm talking about. You're the one calling doctors scammers. These are YOUR photos. Your timeline. If you want to ask for a refund, go for it. You'll have more luck asking for a free top up. 

Could results be better? Yes.
Is it botched? No.
Will it get better over time? Yes.
Can you improve your hair cut and style? Yes.
Are your expectations too high? Also yes.

[michael hofmann]

7 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

Here's my donor recovery.

How does this looks to you for a donor area after 6,5 months?. With the time it has only gotten worse. What do you think that this is?