Botched Hairtransplantion by HLC clinic in Ancara

[John1991]

I think as poor as this result is, people should cool it on talking about Michael Hofmann as if he's someone who was struck with a terminal illness in his 20s.  This was a conscious choice he made to undergo medical tourism - in fact, it's a choice he made twice - notwithstanding a poor first result.   Now I'm still very sympathetic to his concerns and to the fact that his result appears quite poor, but a grown adult from a first world country (I assume he's German) and access to the internet is not some helpless victim.  Further, his life isn't over whether or not the most recent transplant improves over time or not.  There's also no need to mock the guy.

[MachoVato]

7 minutes ago, ITA said:

Listens I have already written that I was one of those who considered HLC one of the best choices a patient can make to undergo a hair transplant in Turkey (along with Pekiner and Bicer), but with @michael hofmann HLC behaved like one of many mills for hair that is in that country, not taking into account, possibly the Dermatitis or Ekzema that the patient has on the face and above the ears, which in my opinion, has influenced the success of his transplants, the OP says no, but he will never know for sure.  Ethical surgeons (and I gave the example of H&W who rejected a patient for a second procedure, seeing a scalp irritation, could have done it, earning their money, but they didn't), don't just think about money, HLC, here he thought a lot about that.

 

I'm ok with you, really. I try not to get defensive with HLC or Bisanga because I went to them. I get most frustrated with the groupthink on here, but that's just the way I am. 

I'm not convinced HLC behaved as badly as they are portrayed here. HLC has declined a patient before. Anything is possible, but naturally I take notice of every HLC case and this unethical behavior is out of character.

[michael hofmann]

4 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

 

 

Oh, I know exactly what I'm talking about. You're the one calling doctors scammers. These are YOUR photos. Your timeline. If you want to ask for a refund, go for it. You'll have more luck asking for a free top up. 

Could results be better? Yes.
Is it botched? No.
Will it get better over time? Yes.
Can you improve your hair cut and style? Yes.
Are your expectations too high? Also yes.

I have high expectations that i wanted to look normal after a hairtransplant? I have spoken to 3 different doctors by now and they all told me that a depleted donor area like mine is very hard to fix, this is permanent damage and Disfiguration and you are telling me this is ok, not botched? I have already said that with the time it has only gotten worse, the guys from the HLC told me that i had to wait for 6 months, but you know better. 

As i have written before they have implanted multiple grafts on the hairline with wrong angles, that is why i have cutted my hair short. And it has not gotten any better.

I think i have every good reason to believe that these doctors are more than scammers, they are criminals. Do you know anything about the doctor who operated you there? Is he a Dermatologist? Is he a plastic surgeon? 

 

[MachoVato]

1 minute ago, michael hofmann said:

I have high expectations that i wanted to look normal after a hairtransplant? I have spoken to 3 different doctors by now and they all told me that a depleted donor area like mine is very hard to fix, this is permanent damage and Disfiguration and you are telling me this is ok, not botched? I have already said that with the time it has only gotten worse, the guys from the HLC told me that i had to wait for 6 months, but you know better. 

As i have written before they have implanted multiple grafts on the hairline with wrong angles, that is why i have cutted my hair short. And it has not gotten any better.

I think i have every good reason to believe that these doctors are more than scammers, they are criminals. Do you know anything about the doctor who operated you there? Is he a Dermatologist? Is he a plastic surgeon? 

 

I don't believe they implanted multiple grafts into your hairline or in the wrong angles. The photos don't show that and that's not the kind of work they do. 

How on earth does donor area get worse over time? That makes me not believe anything you say. I'm not going to argue with you. If they are criminals, call the police. 

[John1991]

13 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

I have high expectations that i wanted to look normal after a hairtransplant? I have spoken to 3 different doctors by now and they all told me that a depleted donor area like mine is very hard to fix, this is permanent damage and Disfiguration and you are telling me this is ok, not botched? I have already said that with the time it has only gotten worse, the guys from the HLC told me that i had to wait for 6 months, but you know better. 

As i have written before they have implanted multiple grafts on the hairline with wrong angles, that is why i have cutted my hair short. And it has not gotten any better.

I think i have every good reason to believe that these doctors are more than scammers, they are criminals. Do you know anything about the doctor who operated you there? Is he a Dermatologist? Is he a plastic surgeon? 

 

It's criminally insane to go to Turkey from a first world country.  Doubly so if you do it twice even after a bad first result.  I would agree that they botched you, though.  That seems fairly clear.

Edited August 4, 2022 by John1991

[ITA]

14 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

I'm ok with you, really.

Ok @MachoVato I offer you my apologies, we are not here to argue, but to help those like me or @michael hofmann have undergone transplants that did not meet expectations.  It is also possible that it went like this: @michael hofmannundergoes the first procedure, which went wrong, when he returned for the visit (he said that a second procedure had not been scheduled), the clinic should have done some further information, they should have asked @michael hofmannTo make careful visits to understand if his dermatitis or Ekzema could have affected the outcome of the first transplant.  But no, they just did a second procedure, so I would call them "superficial" rather than "unethical"?  Yes, in reality the name of unethical is usually given to those who "dump" patients once they have taken their money.  We will see at the end what they will do to help their patient.

[michael hofmann]

1 minute ago, MachoVato said:

I don't believe they implanted multiple grafts into your hairline or in the wrong angles. The photos don't show that and that's not the kind of work they do. 

How on earth does donor area get worse over time? That makes me not believe anything you say. I'm not going to argue with you. If they are criminals, call the police. 

It gets worse over time brcause the new hairs that grow there have a smaller diameter. That is not said by me, but from one of the top doctors that are recommended here. The multiple grafts on the hairline are the kind of work they did to me.

How do you know everything about the kind of work they are doing every day? i have asked you before, the doctor that operated on you is he a Dermatologist or a plastic surgeon? 

[michael hofmann]

5 minutes ago, ITA said:

Ok @MachoVato I offer you my apologies, we are not here to argue, but to help those like me or @michael hofmann have undergone transplants that did not meet expectations.  It is also possible that it went like this: @michael hofmannundergoes the first procedure, which went wrong, when he returned for the visit (he said that a second procedure had not been scheduled), the clinic should have done some further information, they should have asked @michael hofmannTo make careful visits to understand if his dermatitis or Ekzema could have affected the outcome of the first transplant.  But no, they just did a second procedure, so I would call them "superficial" rather than "unethical"?  Yes, in reality the name of unethical is usually given to those who "dump" patients once they have taken their money.  We will see at the end what they will do to help their patient.

As i have said before i had no intentions getting a second HT. The only reason i did this, its because they lured me in. The Director of the clinic told me they can go up to 6000 grafts and i needed 2000 grafts for the front and the hairline. So, the second surgery was scheduled. My fault is that i have believed them, Unethical is when you say to somebody he has a great donor area and he should have a second procedure ending up like this. Criminal is the doctor that destroys your donor area, giving you a much bigger problem than you had before, just to get some money.

[MachoVato]

2 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

It gets worse over time brcause the new hairs that grow there have a smaller diameter. That is not said by me, but from one of the top doctors that are recommended here. The multiple grafts on the hairline are the kind of work they did to me.

How do you know everything about the kind of work they are doing every day? i have asked you before, the doctor that operated on you is he a Dermatologist or a plastic surgeon? 

If you are saying that you have miniaturization in your donor area, how is that HLC's fault? A transplant may cause some shock loss, in which case your hair starts a new anagen phase (I think that's right). The hair should thicken over time.

Have you started finasteride or minoxidil, which may cause shedding? That could cause your hair to get worse but it always gets better with time.

No, I don't know the exact medical degree of the doctors that worked on you. 

[mister_25]

1 hour ago, John1991 said:

Further, his life isn't over whether or not the most recent transplant improves over time or not.

John, I agree with most of the points that you have provided in your reply but I will have to disagree here.

See a below quote from the original post.

On 7/24/2022 at 3:40 AM, michael hofmann said:

I  am at the point where i can"t leave my house anymore without a hat and facing Depression. After 2 Months i have lost my job because of this, i just could not take it anymore having people staring at my head and laughing at me. I do not dare visiting my family because of this problem.

He is claiming that he is facing depression, he lost his job and that people are staring at his head and laughing at him. He also does not feel comfortable visiting his family in his situation. While his life may not be over, you can argue that because of confidence spiraling downwards its certainly looking that way for him.

While my situation was different than Michaels, the outcome of my situation was similar. I went bald at 20, and I was mocked and ridiculed for it and I went from someone with no real self-esteem issues to someone that developed a powerful self loathing of themselves. I lost alot of friends for various reasons all stemming from my hair loss. I cut alot of "friends" out of my life because of how shallow and hurtful they could be, I stopped getting invited to social functions and generally it gets emotionally and mentally exhausting when people ask me why I am bald at 20. On top of this, I was struggling to be productive at work, hair loss was permanently on my mind. 

Even when I developed a more positive lifestyle by actively doing self improvement and surrounding myself with more positive people, the damage was done and I still hated myself because I was told I should. Most people feel insecure about something, but when you actually get mocked for this insecurity it really reinforces the thought that its something wrong with you.

43 minutes ago, John1991 said:

It's criminally insane to go to Turkey from a first world country.

Turkey is known as "The Place to go to get your hair back." It is a country known for its medical tourism. Keep in mind that a large amount of people go there because of how skilled they are at marketing. as I always have said, Turkey have masters of marketing hair transplantation. Not master of hair transplantation themselves. They often steal other surgeons/clinics results and when caught they delete all post and change their instagram handle. They have celebrities and YouTubers with some level on influence promote the same clinics (Vera Clinic, Hair of Istanbul, Serkan Aygin, Asli Tarcan, Dr Cinik, Smile Hair Clinic, Now Hair Time). Regardless of all these being competitive businesses they all work towards the same goal of making "Turkey the place to go to get your hair back." to the general public. Check out r/HairTransplants. A forum that is quite amateur and not as refined with a history like this one. 90% of the posts are people going to hairmills. And the top results of all time are usually from hair mills.

HLC has proven in the past to be leagues above the rest of their competitors in Turkey. I regret my initial comment lumping HLC with hairmills. But this case in particular there is no excuse for, they dropped the ball on this one and improvements could of been made with the aftercare clearly.

This thread has gone off the rails clearly, back and forths that have no relevance to the topic, victim blaming, ad hominem, clinic bashing and reasonable discussions gaining tension. I'm not particularly absent from these either with my initial comment insinuating the legitimacy of doctors in turkey. MachoVato provided you with his example and shows there is still some chance for your donor to heal although I think the general consensus here is that its unlikely. but I'll still stand my ground and say that Michaels case looks pretty bad.

This thread is becoming more and more tense and there have even been hostilities shown. I believe its in Michael and HLC's best interest for a representative of HLC to come forward and attempt to justify/explain themselves and give their side. If this happens there can also be a dialogue where Michael can get a discussion from them. This gave a satisfactory conclusion to some concerns that were causing tension in Nordster34s thread when Doug from H&W came forward.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by mister_25
Correcting something I was wrong on.

[michael hofmann]

3 minutes ago, MachoVato said:

If you are saying that you have miniaturization in your donor area, how is that HLC's fault? A transplant may cause some shock loss, in which case your hair starts a new anagen phase (I think that's right). The hair should thicken over time.

Have you started finasteride or minoxidil, which may cause shedding? That could cause your hair to get worse but it always gets better with time.

No, I don't know the exact medical degree of the doctors that worked on you. 

As it is told to me, and you can find many videos from doctors like Bisanga saying that, when the donor area depleted is many of the blood vessels that suply this area are damaged too. The hairs that are left are not with blood well supplied and that causes this hairs to become smaller. 

It is their obligation to check and examine every patient before hairtransplant to see the Donor-Capacity and if there is any miniaturization. And i mean really EXAMINE the donor area, not just touching the donor area or see from behind how it looks. This is not what professionals do. 

How can you say you trusted these guys to perform your hairtransplant, but you don"t really know what kind of doctor operated on you? Would you be fine knowing that the doctor who operated on you, he was before unemployed in turkey and because he could not find anything else to do he started doing HT? I have questioned myself too you know and that only shows one thing, lack of research.

No, o don"t take any finasterid or minoxidil now.

[John1991]

22 minutes ago, mister_25 said:

John, I agree with most of the points that you have provided in your reply but I will have to disagree here.

See a below quote from the original post.

He is claiming that he is facing depression, he lost his job and that people are staring at his head and laughing at him. He also does not feel comfortable visiting his family in his situation. While his life may not be over, you can argue that because of confidence spiraling downwards its certainly looking that way for him.

While my situation was different than Michaels, the outcome of my situation was similar. I went bald at 20, and I was mocked and ridiculed for it and I went from someone with no real self-esteem issues to someone that developed a powerful self loathing of themselves. I lost alot of friends for various reasons all stemming from my hair loss. I cut alot of "friends" out of my life because of how shallow and hurtful they could be, I stopped getting invited to social functions and generally it gets emotionally and mentally exhausting when people ask me why I am bald at 20. On top of this, I was struggling to be productive at work, hair loss was permanently on my mind. 

Even when I developed a more positive lifestyle by actively doing self improvement and surrounding myself with more positive people, the damage was done and I still hated myself because I was told I should. Most people feel insecure about something, but when you actually get mocked for this insecurity it really reinforces the thought that its something wrong with you.

Turkey is known as "The Place to go to get your hair back." It is a country known for its medical tourism. Keep in mind that a large amount of people go there because of how skilled they are at marketing. as I always have said, Turkey have masters of marketing hair transplantation. Not master of hair transplantation themselves. They often steal other surgeons/clinics results and when caught they delete all post and change their instagram handle. They have celebrities and YouTubers with some level on influence promote the same clinics (Vera Clinic, Hair of Istanbul, Serkan Aygin, Asli Tarcan, Dr Cinik, Smile Hair Clinic, Now Hair Time). Regardless of all these being competitive businesses they all work towards the same goal of making "Turkey the place to go to get your hair back." to the general public. Check out r/HairTransplants. A forum that is quite amateur and not as refined with a history like this one. 90% of the posts are people going to hairmills. And the top results of all time are usually from hair mills.

HLC has proven in the past to be leagues above the rest of their competitors in Turkey. I regret my initial comment lumping HLC with hairmills. But this case in particular there is no excuse for, they dropped the ball on this one and improvements could of been made with the aftercare clearly.

This thread has gone off the rails clearly, back and forths that have no relevance to the topic, victim blaming, ad hominem, clinic bashing and reasonable discussions gaining tension. I'm not particularly absent from these either with my initial comment insinuating the legitimacy of doctors in turkey. MachoVato provided you with his example and shows there is still some chance for your donor to heal although I think the general consensus here is that its unlikely. but I'll still stand my ground and say that Michaels case looks pretty bad.

This thread is becoming more and more tense and there have even been hostilities shown. I believe its in Michael and HLC's best interest for a representative of HLC to come forward and attempt to justify/explain themselves and give their side. If this happens there can also be a dialogue where Michael can get a discussion from them. This gave a satisfactory conclusion to some concerns that were causing tension in Nordster34s thread when Doug from H&W came forward.

 

 

Turkey being known for medical tourism doesn't make it any less insane to leave a first world country to be a medical tourist.  There is plenty of available information on the internet to steer any half-careful adult away from Turkey as a destination for a hair transplant and any discerning adult should have enough common sense not to be a medical tourist.  Period.  No excuses.  There may be a few actually good clinics in Turkey - so what.   Even going to them purely to save money is insane.  Period.  No excuses.  Unless you think they're on par with the clinics in your country, you shouldn't be going to them.

 

As for Hofmann's mental state, I can empathize.  I would hope at least his family would be accepting, though.  Hopefully he  finds it in him to discuss it with them because they're really going to be his main support.  I wish him well.

Edited August 4, 2022 by John1991

[michael hofmann]

5 minutes ago, John1991 said:

Turkey being known for medical tourism doesn't make it any less insane to leave a first world country to be a medical tourist.  There is plenty of available information on the internet to steer any half-careful adult away from Turkey as a destination for a hair transplant and any discerning adult should have enough common sense not to be a medical tourist.  Period.  No excuses.  There may be a few actually good clinics in Turkey - so what.   Even going to them to save money is insane.  Period.  No excuses.

 

As for Hofmann's mental state, I can empathize.  I would hope at least his family would be accepting, though.  Hopefully he  finds it in him to discuss it with them because they're really going to be his main support.  I wish him well.

You are right. As i have said before i am responsible too for making this decision.

[John1991]

Just now, michael hofmann said:

You are right. As i have said before i am responsible too for making this decision.

That said, mocking you is rude.  And that clinic is unethical for taking you on a second time (with no further examination) after such a poor yield the first time.  

[TrustTheProcess]

I think we need to separate bad outcomes from pure unethical behavior. I know this is anecdotal, but HLC did not want to even have a discussion with me about scheduling my HT until I was on fin for 6 months. Had they just wanted to take my money, they could have locked me in with a deposit. They had no assurance I'd even come back to them after 6 months.  A similar case I saw on reddit this morning, see screenshot I attached:

 

 

[BaldDude]

12 minutes ago, John1991 said:

Turkey being known for medical tourism doesn't make it any less insane to leave a first world country to be a medical tourist.  There is plenty of available information on the internet to steer any half-careful adult away from Turkey as a destination for a hair transplant and any discerning adult should have enough common sense not to be a medical tourist.  Period.  No excuses.  There may be a few actually good clinics in Turkey - so what.   Even going to them purely to save money is insane.  Period.  No excuses.  Unless you think they're on par with the clinics in your country, you shouldn't be going to them.

 

As for Hofmann's mental state, I can empathize.  I would hope at least his family would be accepting, though.  Hopefully he  finds it in him to discuss it with them because they're really going to be his main support.  I wish him well.

Not insane given how many here have gotten bad results from docs in the USA, after spending a lot more money.

[mister_25]

15 minutes ago, John1991 said:

Turkey being known for medical tourism doesn't make it any less insane to leave a first world country to be a medical tourist.

I will have to disagree with you here. Most people end up going to hairmills. Its true, how else do they get the 10 patients a day that everyone scrutinizes? Are all those people "insane" as you claim? No, they are misguided. And I will disagree with you there as many people on forums associated with hairloss that promote these hairmills, poor surgeons, fearmonger medication and more. JT (The Hair Transplant Mentor) recently even made a video touring ASMED suites, ASMED the clinic has fallen out of favor with producing consistently poor results recently. Even some of the recommended doctors on here have been producing questionable practices that should subject them to being questioned. This isn't as black and white as you think

16 minutes ago, John1991 said:

There is plenty of available information on the internet to steer any half-careful adult away from Turkey as a destination for a hair transplant and any discerning adult should have enough common sense not to be a medical tourist.  Period.  No excuses.  There may be a few actually good clinics in Turkey - so what.   Even going to them purely to save money is insane.  Period.  No excuses.  Unless you think they're on par with the clinics in your country, you shouldn't be going to them.

This information isn't as widely spread as you believe. And the rule of first world country doesn't actually apply most of the time. In Australia where I'm from they are just as bad if not worse than Turkey. Doubles in the hairline are literally being promoted at a dermatologist I visited recently. The two top "leading hair transplant surgeons" in Australia always get scrutinized for still messing up and getting doubles in the hairline. And I would say that HLC even regarding this case and factoring that in as a overall assessment in my mind, is still better than the clinics where I'm from.

US is also known for overcharging for terrible results, and they have some of the best (Dr Cooley, Dr Konior, Dr Panine, Dr Nadimi) Truth be told, all countries have more bad clinics than good ones. Turkey like you said, is the worst example literally with thousands of hair mills. But these hair mills steal results, they lie to your face, they mislead and spend all their assets on marketing so they can lie and mislead others. Its not insane to fall for someone's lies, especially when they have a false reputation to stand on.

I do not want to add to ever going back and forth discussions that will derail this thread. My messages are open if you wish to discuss this.

[MachoVato]

27 minutes ago, michael hofmann said:

As it is told to me, and you can find many videos from doctors like Bisanga saying that, when the donor area depleted is many of the blood vessels that suply this area are damaged too. The hairs that are left are not with blood well supplied and that causes this hairs to become smaller. 

It is their obligation to check and examine every patient before hairtransplant to see the Donor-Capacity and if there is any miniaturization. And i mean really EXAMINE the donor area, not just touching the donor area or see from behind how it looks. This is not what professionals do. 

How can you say you trusted these guys to perform your hairtransplant, but you don"t really know what kind of doctor operated on you? Would you be fine knowing that the doctor who operated on you, he was before unemployed in turkey and because he could not find anything else to do he started doing HT? I have questioned myself too you know and that only shows one thing, lack of research.

No, o don"t take any finasterid or minoxidil now.

I've never heard that hair gets thinner from a depleted donor. Miniaturization is caused by DHT. And with respect, I don't believe you've been over-harvested. Still recovering from shock loss, maybe. It doesn't look great 6 months post-op, but it doesn't look botched.

This isn't about me. But HLC doctors are not technicians from off the street. I don't know what university they went to but I trust completely that they are doctors with medical degrees. What's equally important is that they have been there for years, as I've seen Dr. Elif and Dr. Cengiz patients from many years ago.

Perhaps the ethical concern I have is that they operated on you without being on finasteride. They have turned down patients without that. At minimum, I would recommend minoxidil, oral version if possible. Medication is part of the hair transplant protocol for most people.

You've made very negative statements about HLC, and you're free to do that. Some people agree with you and that's totally fine. I offered a different view point and you called me unknowledgeable and dangerous. I'm not your enemy here but I'm allowed to not agree with you.

 

[HappyMan2021]

5 minutes ago, mister_25 said:

US is also known for overcharging for terrible results, and they have some of the best (Dr Cooley, Dr Konior, Dr Panine, Dr Nadimi)

curious why Panine and Nadimi are in your Top US doctor list.....

I do agree with you getting a HT in a first world country doesn't mean anything. I got poor results from 2 US doctors. Given the sh*t talent of these 2 US docs, I might as well have rolled the dice in Turkey, Greece, Hungary, etc. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by HappyMan2021

[John1991]

17 minutes ago, mister_25 said:

I will have to disagree with you here. Most people end up going to hairmills. Its true, how else do they get the 10 patients a day that everyone scrutinizes? Are all those people "insane" as you claim? No, they are misguided. And I will disagree with you there as many people on forums associated with hairloss that promote these hairmills, poor surgeons, fearmonger medication and more. JT (The Hair Transplant Mentor) recently even made a video touring ASMED suites, ASMED the clinic has fallen out of favor with producing consistently poor results recently. Even some of the recommended doctors on here have been producing questionable practices that should subject them to being questioned. This isn't as black and white as you think

This information isn't as widely spread as you believe. And the rule of first world country doesn't actually apply most of the time. In Australia where I'm from they are just as bad if not worse than Turkey. Doubles in the hairline are literally being promoted at a dermatologist I visited recently. The two top "leading hair transplant surgeons" in Australia always get scrutinized for still messing up and getting doubles in the hairline. And I would say that HLC even regarding this case and factoring that in as a overall assessment in my mind, is still better than the clinics where I'm from.

US is also known for overcharging for terrible results, and they have some of the best (Dr Cooley, Dr Konior, Dr Panine, Dr Nadimi) Truth be told, all countries have more bad clinics than good ones. Turkey like you said, is the worst example literally with thousands of hair mills. But these hair mills steal results, they lie to your face, they mislead and spend all their assets on marketing so they can lie and mislead others. Its not insane to fall for someone's lies, especially when they have a false reputation to stand on.

I do not want to add to ever going back and forth discussions that will derail this thread. My messages are open if you wish to discuss this.

Most people are unwise then.  Perhaps insane was the wrong term.  Trusting your health and your scalp (and future appearance) to people based on internet sales marketing (which, if you dig a bit, proves to be rather unconvincing marketing), the poor judgement of other unwise people that have done the same, or any combination of those two things is unwise.  You're already playing roulette getting into the hair transplant game to begin with, but the extent to which you're doing so is dependent upon where you go.  There are other Dr.s outside the ones you listed in the US that are good as well.  And, yes, there are also poor clinics everywhere, no doubt.  And the US isn't the only place to consider obviously, but overwhelmingly Turkey should be ruled out of you're from a first world country.

Edited August 4, 2022 by John1991

[mister_25]

6 minutes ago, HappyMan2021 said:

curious why Panine and Nadimi are in your Top US doctor list.....

 

I do agree with you getting a HT in a first world country doesn't mean anything. I got poor results from 2 US doctors. Given the sh*t talent of these 2 US docs, I might as well have rolled the dice in Turkey, Greece, Hungary, etc. 

Just top of my head names that I came up in the moment, I think their good but not at the same level as Cooley or Konior 

Panine from what I've seen really shines in repair work. I consider Konior world class, he's in my top 5. and Dr Nadimi trained under him so I listed her by association, I've also seem some decent work from her so its not unwarranted or biased or anything.

3 minutes ago, John1991 said:

Most people are unwise then.  Perhaps insane was the wrong term.

Agreed

Edited August 4, 2022 by mister_25

[Vann]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

These are strong points. There’s a length to keep the illusion of density. The only concerning thing is the donor, which you pointed is only at 6 months. We need to wait to see how this plays out. But yes, it does look concerning. 

This ^
 

i agree with this. Macho made some good points as to the timeline and compared it to himself. Let’s compare others such as Melvin he has beard grafts and In his recent ht. He has a ton of grafts taken out. His beard grafts are not 100% grown in and they take time to soften/settle. He actually might be closer to you (in terms of slower growth).

macho has stupidly good donor so he’s a little of an outlier but should still be compared since he is a HLC patient. 
 

needless to say. It doesn’t look good for 6 months. Let’s continue to monitor your progress and consult other surgeons about their thoughts on a repair. By the time you would actually do any operation (probably at months 12-18) you would look very different. (I’m hoping this is something you forget to even think about any further)

for now like I said I think you would be better off comparing yourself to cases similar to yours as Macho said not all heads are the same. 
 

i really like using gatsby as reference since his case is very much like yours (mentally speaking). But repair patients like rtc can guide you in the thought process of looking for wtf you do in your current state. As I stated previously you are not alone and it is not over. Just keep thinking forward.  

[michael hofmann]

1 hour ago, MachoVato said:

I've never heard that hair gets thinner from a depleted donor. Miniaturization is caused by DHT. And with respect, I don't believe you've been over-harvested. Still recovering from shock loss, maybe. It doesn't look great 6 months post-op, but it doesn't look botched.

This isn't about me. But HLC doctors are not technicians from off the street. I don't know what university they went to but I trust completely that they are doctors with medical degrees. What's equally important is that they have been there for years, as I've seen Dr. Elif and Dr. Cengiz patients from many years ago.

Perhaps the ethical concern I have is that they operated on you without being on finasteride. They have turned down patients without that. At minimum, I would recommend minoxidil, oral version if possible. Medication is part of the hair transplant protocol for most people.

You've made very negative statements about HLC, and you're free to do that. Some people agree with you and that's totally fine. I offered a different view point and you called me unknowledgeable and dangerous. I'm not your enemy here but I'm allowed to not agree with you.

 

As i told before i have asked for my case three different real doctors by now. If you see the photos of my donor area after the second surgery and compare this photos with the current state of the donor area, there is no schock loss going on. My donor area is not just being overharvested, it has being destroyed. It is very hard to fix such a damage and it is not something you can hide. So, allow me to say my opinion that no real doctor but a scammer does something like this to semebody.

The ethical part is that you should not hurt and permanently damage somebody who trusted you and gave you his money thinking you know what you are doing. 

I have no problem with your opinion, but please do not try to twist the events. Yes, it is dangerous to say that this is nothing, it is just schockloss and you should wait a little more till you get used to it. This is what scammers from other clinics in Turkey say to avoid patients.

 

 

[sukh123]

3 hours ago, John1991 said:

It's criminally insane to go to Turkey from a first world country.  Doubly so if you do it twice even after a bad first result.  I would agree that they botched you, though.  That seems fairly clear.

I wouldn’t go because there are better doctors in Europe , but to say it’s insane is going way over the top. They’re are good doctors there who produce excellent results and I I will include hlc in that. 

[sukh123]

Michael your donor looks likes it’s has  shock loss and some over-harvesting. And hlc have dropped the ball with regards to their usual standards on that point. However I have to say having had a fut procedure which yielded poor growth and then a second procedure which again wasn’t giving much growth . I think you were naive in then committing  to a third transplant given your poor yield from the first two. Everything can be done correctly in a hair transplant, even by the best and sometime our biological makeup prevents us getting good results. Which is why you see subpars from even the best in the world. I know you said you were told you had enough donor , but I think given your previous two procedures didn’t work out you had enough foresight to induce that maybe going for a third was not in your best interest atm, till a full evaluation of your scalp was done to try and explain why you had issues with the prior two surgeries .