Dr Mwamba June 2022 - Asli Tarcan botch job repair

[Tiger2050]

2 hours ago, WhereIsMyMind said:

"Hair transplants are not perfect" is an ethos that no one should forget. I think people are judging the situation more on expectations they had or were given for their transplant rather than actual facts.

Is it fun to have a 2cnd proccedure or touchup? not really. But in terms of ethics, if the clinic covers the costs and admits its a sub-par result, you lost nothing in the sense that if density is "lacking", you would have needed the grafts that they impanted you regardless no matter what. In some cases it might even save you money.

For repairs, its even more delicate because the tissue is scarred by previous bad surgeons, which decrease survivavility, and also because you can't extract all bad grafts.

Nonetheless, in the forum, we now have all sort of flavours for Mwamba advocates (lets forget about Mustang and focus on genuine people like Callico and others narrating his story with great results) and a lot of recent detractors, so I imagine most people considering Mwamba will be very confused right now.

I hope whatever judgement we make on another doctors is well deserved and that's exactly what this forum is about but im skeptical about some negative claims which are mostly argumented as "I was promised this, but instead, I got this". HTs is not a 100% exact science, and every person is different, and there's a lot of context and flavours in every story.

 

Don’t think the patient is obligated to a free touch-up unless something goes terribly wrong and there is an issue with growth. Mwamba seems to take on very difficult repairs without an in-person examination that other elite surgeons will avoid and doesn’t seem to have the best communication. I might be wrong about the communication part since I’ve never had surgery with Mwamba but the sense I get from all the stories on this forum is that his staff does a poor job with communication. 

Look up repair cases similar to OPs on this forum, most successful repairs require multiple small surgeries. Doing a lot of research is important so you don’t set yourself up for disappointment but an elite doctor should also communicate reasonable expectations. 

Edited December 26, 2022 by Tiger2050

[WhereIsMyMind]

3 minutes ago, Tiger2050 said:

Don’t think the patient is obligated to a free touch-up unless something goes terribly wrong and there is an issue with growth. I had surgery with a very highly regarded doctor on this forum and signed a waiver that said a “see through” appearance is possible and a 2nd surgery might be required since it’s only possible to achieve 50% density in one pass. I was not a repair patient, there are more conditions and a contract the doctor makes repair patients sign to avoid pain in the ass patients demanding free surgeries.

Look up repair cases similar to OPs on this forum, most successful repairs require multiple small surgeries. Doing a lot of research is important so you don’t set yourself up for disappointment but an elite doctor should also communicate reasonable expectations. 

NGL, I can attest to this. I know a few De Freitas cases that required a touchup that wasn't for free at all for see through hairline too, and he is literally the goat of "natural hairlines". I don't want to get much into this debate tho, every case is very personal but I think in some cases they should def be free.

[FITA]

1 hour ago, Tiger2050 said:

This is why a lot of great repair surgeons like Dr. Cooley and Dr. Bisanga will not take on repair patients without a thorough in-person examination and setting reasonable expectations that most repairs require multiple surgeries. There is no surgeon in the world capable of fully restoring your botched hair transplant with one surgery OP. Your donor is much improved and there is a lot of density improvement that happens in months 6-9 despite your skepticism. I’ve never had surgery with Mwamba but it seems like his clinic needs to do a better job with communication and setting reasonable expectations.

Also for the people complaining about Mwamba spending too much time in surgery you can always go to a Turkish hair mill if you want a fast surgery, they work very efficiently to implant 5000+ grafts in a few hours and leave you disfigured. You can’t expect a surgeon to meticulously preform surgery and also rush through as fast as possible. I highly doubt Mwamba enjoys working tirelessly for 16 straight hours, he takes his time because he wants to ensure the best possible result.

 

 

The reason the surgery takes so long is because he simultaneously works on two patients at the same time. If it was one patient per day then the patient would be in and out in shorter time.

I see Dr Lorenzo get a lot of stick on this forum because he performs on 3 patients per day. Well that’s only one more than Mwamba. So why is Lorenzo’s clinic referred to as a “Spanish hairmill” and yet no one ever seems to mention that Mwamba performs on two? 

[NikosHair]

1 hour ago, Tiger2050 said:

I highly doubt Mwamba enjoys working tirelessly for 16 straight hours, he takes his time because he wants to ensure the best possible result.

There is a reason working hours are restricted in jobs that require high levels of concentration. Working 19.5 hours after leaving the practice at 12.30am is neither desirable or optimal. It just isn't healthy. I'm quite sure the Doc didn't plan it this way and just made the best of a difficult situation.

I feel sorry for new patient arriving the same morning for their 1st day of surgery😁

[Tiger2050]

36 minutes ago, NikosHair said:

There is a reason working hours are restricted in jobs that require high levels of concentration. Working 19.5 hours after leaving the practice at 12.30am is neither desirable or optimal. It just isn't healthy. I'm quite sure the Doc didn't plan it this way and just made the best of a difficult situation.

I feel sorry for new patient arriving the same morning for their 1st day of surgery😁

I listened to @Melvin- Moderatorinstagram live with Mwamba and his explanation for multi-day surgeries was that he likes to a do a small amount of grafts on the first day so the patient is more comfortable and asks a lot more questions on the second day when most of the work is done. Would you rather have a doctor be involved in every step of the surgery and take his time or rush you though surgery like a hair mill? You can’t have it both ways. 2 patients is very common among elite docs, Freitas does 3-4 patients per days but limits the amount of grafts per day. Cuoto does 2 patients. Hasson and Wong do 2 patients each per day and do a lot more grafts than most surgeons.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Tiger2050

[WhereIsMyMind]

 

1 minute ago, FITA said:

The reason the surgery takes so long is because he simultaneously works on two patients at the same time. If it was one patient per day then the patient would be in and out in shorter time.

I see Dr Lorenzo get a lot of stick on this forum because he performs on 3 patients per day. Well that’s only one more than Mwamba. So why is Lorenzo’s clinic referred to as a “Spanish hairmill” and yet no one ever seems to mention that Mwamba performs on two? 

Do you have any proof to back up this claim? In every single case I know there were literally no other patients, and still lasted for a whole day long. You even have people who blogged their experience with no other patients and still lasted whole day. This is definetely not the reason of why his surgeries last so long. This thread is starting to become scary seeing literal bold false claims.

[WhereIsMyMind]

4 minutes ago, NikosHair said:

There is a reason working hours are restricted in jobs that require high levels of concentration. Working 19.5 hours after leaving the practice at 12.30am is neither desirable or optimal. It just isn't healthy. I'm quite sure the Doc didn't plan it this way and just made the best of a difficult situation.

I feel sorry for new patient arriving the same morning for their 1st day of surgery😁

This is reasonable skepticism. I also don't know how they do it, why they do it, and they seem totally crazy in that regard. But let me tell you, he has been doing it the same way for 30 years now so it is literally the way they work on a daily basis. Again another false claim that "they didn't plan it this way".

[Melvin- Admin]

21 hours ago, Ajamilo said:

He will probably get a free surgery and accommodation for free because of his YouTube channel. That is the different between between normal people and YouTuber.

anyways bro @RTCi gave you my advice the first time and now is a no brainer that you stay away from the clinic and do your research 

This simply isn’t true. RTC doesn’t even have 1k subs, so I wouldn’t classify him as a YouTuber, but regardless, Dr. Mwamba is the most caring and compassionate surgeons I know, he truly wants to get the best result possible. 

Unfortunately, hair transplants are not straightforward, and repair cases even LESS. You’re going to a surgeon with a destroyed donor, damaged and scarred recipient, you should expect that it isn’t going to look perfect. You should expect a multi-step process. 

I mean one-and-done are hardly a reality with the first good surgery, much less a repair. This is why doing it right the first time is important, it’s also why many surgeons refuse repairs. Patients end up forgetting about the clinics that destroyed them in the first place, and only focus on their repairs. Forgetting that they were a complete disaster before getting repaired. 

Repairs are extremely difficult, that’s why a few surgeons specialize in repairs. It’s like taking a totaled car to get painted, but also telling the body shop that there’s a small amount of paint they can use because the previous body shop used it all. 
 

@RTC I missed that this is 6 months, it’s still very early, looks like he placed some singles to break up the pluggy ones. I doubt you’ll be satisfied with one surgery, that’s the reality. But I think it’s fair to wait more time to cast final judgment. I will reach out to Dr. Mwamba for his response. 

[Tiger2050]

57 minutes ago, FITA said:

The reason the surgery takes so long is because he simultaneously works on two patients at the same time. If it was one patient per day then the patient would be in and out in shorter time.

I see Dr Lorenzo get a lot of stick on this forum because he performs on 3 patients per day. Well that’s only one more than Mwamba. So why is Lorenzo’s clinic referred to as a “Spanish hairmill” and yet no one ever seems to mention that Mwamba performs on two? 

Because Lorenzo isn’t involved in the surgeries and has inexperienced techs doing most of the surgery according to the patient stories. Mwamba is involved in every step according to his patients, look at @RTCsummary of the surgery on the first page. @RTCdocumented the different experiences he had with a hair mill compared to  Mwamba. I haven’t had surgery with either doctor so I can’t make definitive statements about either clinic.

Edited December 26, 2022 by Tiger2050

[RTC]

Just want to address some comments:

1. I have no problem with any doctor being meticulous and taking their time. But as I said, there were at least six hours between extraction and implantation. Did that possibly impact viability of the grafts, I don't know. Like I said, the temple point grafts were implanted using these aforementioned extracted hairs and they grew fine, even with the six hour delay. So I don't know.

2. Mwamba's clinic was dealing with two patients at the same time and staggering new starters and those finishing. I don't have an issue with that at all, but obviously if it affects graft time out of the body then that is a problem.

3. Asli Tarcan implanted hairs that for some reason didn't survive, leaving me with large sparse patches with a few hairs. Dr Mwamba's work was to fill that area. Why am I being unreasonable in expecting hair to grow?

I am not slating Dr Mwamba, but I did expect growth in my frontal hairline. He did great work and was  very meticulous from everything I could see. But also I am seeing quite a pattern with recent patients who seem to be reporting low density and it's concerning.

Edited December 26, 2022 by RTC

[RTC]

16 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

This simply isn’t true. RTC doesn’t even have 1k subs, so I wouldn’t classify him as a YouTuber, but regardless, Dr. Mwamba is the most caring and compassionate surgeons I know, he truly wants to get the best result possible. 

Unfortunately, hair transplants are not straightforward, and repair cases even LESS. You’re going to a surgeon with a destroyed donor, damaged and scarred recipient, you should expect that it isn’t going to look perfect. You should expect a multi-step process. 

I mean one-and-done are hardly a reality with the first good surgery, much less a repair. This is why doing it right the first time is important, it’s also why many surgeons refuse repairs. Patients end up forgetting about the clinics that destroyed them in the first place, and only focus on their repairs. Forgetting that they were a complete disaster before getting repaired. 

Repairs are extremely difficult, that’s why a few surgeons specialize in repairs. It’s like taking a totaled car to get painted, but also telling the body shop that there’s a small amount of paint they can use because the previous body shop used it all. 
 

@RTC I missed that this is 6 months, it’s still very early, looks like he placed some singles to break up the pluggy ones. I doubt you’ll be satisfied with one surgery, that’s the reality. But I think it’s fair to wait more time to cast final judgment. I will reach out to Dr. Mwamba for his response. 

I have emailed Dr Mwamba, I don't want this to become a circus so please hold fire for the time being. I only updated this thread as I get emails and DMs every day about it and I have recommended Mwamba to others so it's only fair I share the update.

Edited December 26, 2022 by RTC

[NikosHair]

6 minutes ago, WhereIsMyMind said:

But let me tell you, he has been doing it the same way for 30 years now so it is literally the way they work on a daily basis. Again another false claim that "they didn't plan it this way".

As the self-anointed custodian of the truth. You are saying Dr Mwamba pull 19.5hr+ days, daily? Lets see the evidence.

11 minutes ago, WhereIsMyMind said:

Again another false claim that "they didn't plan it this way"

The OP said:

Quote

This was a very draining day and I couldn't wait for it to be over. The clinic was short-staffed the day before due to airline problems, so this had an impact into the next day.

 

[RTC]

Btw at no point was I told I have a scarred recipient, and I even asked if the hair would grow there when implanted and was given an answer in the affirmative, so I don't think we can use the scarring argument.

Edited December 26, 2022 by RTC

[gillenator]

2 hours ago, Tiger2050 said:

This is why a lot of great repair surgeons like Dr. Cooley and Dr. Bisanga will not take on repair patients without a thorough in-person examination and setting reasonable expectations that most repairs require multiple surgeries. There is no surgeon in the world capable of fully restoring your botched hair transplant with one surgery OP. Your donor is much improved and there is a lot of density improvement that happens in months 6-9 despite your skepticism. I’ve never had surgery with Mwamba but it seems like his clinic needs to do a better job with communication and setting reasonable expectations.

Also for the people complaining about Mwamba spending too much time in surgery you can always go to a Turkish hair mill if you want a fast surgery, they work very efficiently to implant 5000+ grafts in a few hours and leave you disfigured. You can’t expect a surgeon to meticulously preform surgery and also rush through as fast as possible. I highly doubt Mwamba enjoys working tirelessly for 16 straight hours, he takes his time because he wants to ensure the best possible result.

I will have to speak up for Dr. Mwamba regarding his character and his surgical skills which are outstanding…it sounds like his front office is still dysfunctional and I honestly don’t think he realizes how much this hurts him.

 

[WhereIsMyMind]

Thanks for your honest updates RTC, regardless. I am recent patient of Mwamba so thats why I am closely following everything being said here, and I can't agree with everything but its nice people document it for others to see. I truly believe HT is not an easy process, and that expectations/communication is more in fault than technique here. But I believe that you will ultimately end up with a desirable result (myself too hopefully). Best of luck!

[WhereIsMyMind]

1 minute ago, NikosHair said:

As the self-anointed custodian of the truth. You are saying Dr Mwamba pull 19.5hr+ days, daily? Lets see the evidence.

The OP said:

 

I had a 5-day surgery and he did it every day. Not 19h, but everyday was at least 10-12h. I was the only patient every day. The airline situation is very specific and doesn't rly matter in this discussion.

You have dozens of testimonials of people having surgeries with Mwamba on this same forum saying the same, he is literally "famous" for his long low-graft sessions. Even Melvin had a interview with him and he addressed it. There is testimonials saying the same from years ago. Idk what you trying to argument here. Mwamba sessions are very long and low graft. The reason is not because he does 2 people everyday like you claimed.

[WhereIsMyMind]

12 minutes ago, RTC said:

Just want to address some comments:

1. I have no problem with any doctor being meticulous and taking their time. But as I said, there were at least six hours between extraction and implantation. Did that possibly impact viability of the grafts, I don't know. Like I said, the temple point grafts were implanted using these aforementioned extracted hairs and they grew fine, even with the six hour delay. So I don't know.

2. Mwamba's clinic was dealing with two patients at the same time and staggering new starters and those finishing. I don't have an issue with that at all, but obviously if it affects graft time out of the body then that is a problem.

3. Asli Tarcan implanted hairs that for some reason didn't survive, leaving me with large sparse patches with a few hairs. Dr Mwamba's work was to fill that area. Why am I being unreasonable in expecting hair to grow?

I am not slating Dr Mwamba, but I did expect growth in my frontal hairline. He did great work and was  ery meticulous from everything I could see. But also I am seeing quite a pattern with recent patients who seem to be reporting low density and it's concerning.

In my surgery grafts were out of my body for around 6 hours too. I have no clue how good will my survival be because im at month 1, but during surgery I asked him if that is not too much and that it scared me. He said, his preserving machine cools them and uses a special solution that guarantees >90% survival even after 24 hours and that all his patients have always high % survival rate doing it like this. 

Follicle grafts are organs, and just like a kidney transplant can be prserved for up to 36h in cold I guess it makes sense it should be no problem for a hair graft to be the same way.

Anyway, after 6-8 months I will let you know if my survival was good or not, since our surgery conditions were identical in that regard.

[FITA]

11 minutes ago, WhereIsMyMind said:

Mwamba sessions are very long and low graft. The reason is not because he does 2 people everyday like you claimed.

You really don’t think that having 2 patients makes the days longer?

[mister_25]

Just now, FITA said:

You really don’t think that having 2 patients makes the days longer?

It depends, I was being operated on at my clinic I would say 98% of the time I was there and my clinic has 4 patients a day. 

[WhereIsMyMind]

 

3 minutes ago, FITA said:

You really don’t think that having 2 patients makes the days longer?

In my experience I was always alone and still lasted whole day, so how does it matter? Another debate is if you truly believe a long session is better or not.

Afaik, the only time he does 2 at once is the first day, where he wants to "test your scalp" and see how you react. My first day was only 700 graft (whole transplant 6700 follicles) for example

[Mike10]

It seems that the thread is becoming a little confusing a whole bunch of different things being thrown in together. To sorte this out, here are some general remarks:  

Regarding the whole grafts out of the body time, I would assume that an experienced and reputable clinic like Mwamba knows what they are doing. If you do not have that minimal trust in them, why go to them in the first place? It is important to have trust in your Dr.  

Repairs are traditionally more difficult, expectations should be in check and not be evaluated at the 6 months mark. Also the goal of a repair is to have an acceptable outcome. Because  the initial position is often disfigurement  to a certain degree. 

I think that clinics tend to post only their best cases and this is taken as a benchmark . Even with good Drs, it is not rare to go back for more density. Now I am going say something more controversial. Some Drs are very clever at hiding those cases from getting public.     

 

 

[mister_25]

19 minutes ago, Mike10 said:

It seems that the thread is becoming a little confusing a whole bunch of different things being thrown in together. To sorte this out, here are some general remarks:  

Regarding the whole grafts out of the body time, I would assume that an experienced and reputable clinic like Mwamba knows what they are doing. If you do not have that minimal trust in them, why go to them in the first place? It is important to have trust in your Dr.  

Repairs are traditionally more difficult, expectations should be in check and not be evaluated at the 6 months mark. Also the goal of a repair is to have an acceptable outcome. Because  the initial position is often disfigurement  to a certain degree. 

I think that clinics tend to post only their best cases and this is taken as a benchmark . Even with good Drs, it is not rare to go back for more density. Now I am going say something more controversial. Some Drs are very clever at hiding those cases from getting public.     

 

 

There was also a accusation that Mwamba struggles with Afro/Curly Hair recently (when he is known for being skilled in that department) and another accusation that there have been poor growth cases on NW3 level patients.

19 minutes ago, Mike10 said:

Now I am going say something more controversial. Some Drs are very clever at hiding those cases from getting public.

I think anyone here can just come here and post a thread that is saying "I hate my result from this doctor, here is a photo of my hair, my experience was terrible, the clinic was bad yadadada" and the result will be up there to have a look at for years to come as long as its not baseless without at least a photo. If it was another forum you would get censored/banned and the doctor will reply with the same answer to shut everyone up "hello X, we had a look at our database and we cannot find anyone that resembles this patient"

Don't forget that there are people on this forum who have usernames singling out clinics. RTC himself was named "Aslitarcan Sucks" (if you could even call AsliTarcan a clinic and not just a butcher shop) and THE TRUTH was named "soon butchered by HLC". And they werent censored/banned, I would say censorship happens elsewhere but not here.

Atleast on here you have a search engine where you type the Doctors name and sort by threads and you can see everything that was posted and make up your own mind that way. The good and the bad.

Edited December 26, 2022 by mister_25
spelling

[RTC]

24 minutes ago, Mike10 said:

 

 Also the goal of a repair is to have an acceptable outcome. Because  the initial position is often disfigurement  to a certain degree. 

Is expecting hair to grow where it was implanted an unreasonable expectation?

I have never expected 10/10 hair. But I wanted an improvement on my starting point.

Edited December 26, 2022 by RTC

[asterix0]

@RTC I have a hypothesis but this is admittedly a personal theory and some bro-science, but anyone else can chime in if they think it's wrong.

So, perhaps your yield was affecting by the over harvested donor from Asli Tarcan. Remember, your donor was not over harvested because she took 5000 grafts, many have done that many grafts and even more, but their donors do not look over harvested.

The problem is the tools that Asli Tarcan used and the improper way your grafts were extracted that caused additional damage to your donor. Thus, the scarred regions kind of heal together and great an additional surface area of damaged donor.

So, even the surrounding good grafts, may have been slightly compromised by the larger diameter of the damaged donor regions. Think of extracting grafts like plucking a tree out of the ground. If you want to re-plant it in another area, you must make sure the "roots" , so to speak, are not damaged as well, otherwise the tree will not grow when it is moved to its new location.

What may have happened is, other grafts that looked good when Dr. Mwamba took them out, may have been damaged under the surface by what Asli Tarcan did, and thus cannot grow properly.

 

[WhereIsMyMind]

Fwiw I think people confuse a lot "survivality/poor growth" with the doctor directly not implanting enough density to begin with. Those two aspects should be closely tracked for a good assesment