Samumed - SM04554

[Dutchie]

SM04554 made by Samumed Corporation, supposedly the next big thing.

Only side-effect you might grow a monkey tail

 

Hope for baldness sufferers as new drug is found to 'reverse hair loss' | Daily Mail Online

[thisguy1]

Even if something were found tomorrow as a solution I am curious what % of people would go out and use it immediately rather than wait 5-6 years and see what the "real" long term side effects are in a large population (rather than small controlled groups for small amount of years).

 

I am also wondering what % of men would be willing to grow a tail to get a full head of hair without surgery. :cool:

[Dutchie]

Even if something were found tomorrow as a solution I am curious what % of people would go out and use it immediately rather than wait 5-6 years and see what the "real" long term side effects are in a large population (rather than small controlled groups for small amount of years)

Good point. Clinical trials generally are fairly short, nobody knows long-term effects

 

I am also wondering what % of men would be willing to grow a tail to get a full head of hair without surgery

If the tail is clippable, I'm in

[esrec]

Interesting

[Spanker]

I heard about this on satellite radio today. Not getting my hopes up, but it'll be nice if something comes of it.

[Spanker]

Even if something were found tomorrow as a solution I am curious what % of people would go out and use it immediately rather than wait 5-6 years and see what the "real" long term side effects are in a large population (rather than small controlled groups for small amount of years).

 

I am also wondering what % of men would be willing to grow a tail to get a full head of hair without surgery. :cool:

 

Man, half the things I do can be bad for you. I eat steak, vegetables with pesticides, I'm a vaper, I use artificial sweetener, I use propecia and minoxidil, etc.

 

I know 100 percent I'm going die. I'd prefer to do it at an old age but with a head full of hair. It's a mission. I'm in if it comes to the counter.

[Dr Blake Bloxham]

The company just released the results from its phase II trials, and many online were not pleased with the results. There was some benefit, but it was less than the average from minoxidil -- in those who are minoxidil responders -- and there were issues with dosing (the lower dosage of the medication actually showed a greater response) and questions as to whether or not some of the benefit was simply due to normal follicle cycling.

 

The official statement, as I understand it, is that the company wants to re-evaluate the dosing issue and then maybe do another phase II trial before determining if they will move on to phase III.

 

Fair warning, however: this was just what I garnered after reviewing some news articles written about the recent phase II release and reading a few other's analysis online. I'll review it all later and maybe update if I see anything different.

 

Having said all that, I've always thought a WNT agonist would have issues being cleared by regulatory bodies like the FDA -- even if it proved effective. There are a lot of issues with activating the WNT/b-catenin pathway and this causing cellular growth and turn-over where it isn't wanted.

[Spanker]

The company just released the results from its phase II trials, and many online were not pleased with the results. There was some benefit, but it was less than the average from minoxidil -- in those who are minoxidil responders -- and there were issues with dosing (the lower dosage of the medication actually showed a greater response) and questions as to whether or not some of the benefit was simply due to normal follicle cycling.

 

The official statement, as I understand it, is that the company wants to re-evaluate the dosing issue and then maybe do another phase II trial before determining if they will move on to phase III.

 

Fair warning, however: this was just what I garnered after reviewing some news articles written about the recent phase II release and reading a few other's analysis online. I'll review it all later and maybe update if I see anything different.

 

Having said all that, I've always thought a WNT agonist would have issues being cleared by regulatory bodies like the FDA -- even if it proved effective. There are a lot of issues with activating the WNT/b-catenin pathway and this causing cellular growth and turn-over where it isn't wanted.

 

Booooooo

[Dr Blake Bloxham]

I know, I know! I'm always such a party pooper in this threads!

 

I still think the next "future treatment" will be donor doubling. The science behind it is proven. The only issue is finding a way to support the half of the follicle moved into the recipient site with something that will help is grow as thick as it should. As of now, many studies have shown that bi-secting a follicle results in two follicl-oids capable of cycling and producing hairs. The only problem is that they grow back thinner. This can be an issue when it comes to creating a cosmetic difference in the recipient area. I think we also need to figure out more about the half left behind in the donor. It will grow and prevent the donor from looking sparse or overharvested, but can it be split again? That's a big question when it comes to true "unlimited donor" surgeries.

 

So there's something a bit sunnier!

[Melvin- Admin]

I know, I know! I'm always such a party pooper in this threads!

 

I still think the next "future treatment" will be donor doubling. The science behind it is proven. The only issue is finding a way to support the half of the follicle moved into the recipient site with something that will help is grow as thick as it should. As of now, many studies have shown that bi-secting a follicle results in two follicl-oids capable of cycling and producing hairs. The only problem is that they grow back thinner. This can be an issue when it comes to creating a cosmetic difference in the recipient area. I think we also need to figure out more about the half left behind in the donor. It will grow and prevent the donor from looking sparse or overharvested, but can it be split again? That's a big question when it comes to true "unlimited donor" surgeries.

 

So there's something a bit sunnier!

I have to say Dr. B it's actually refreshing when a hair restoration surgeon is in the know of cutting edge experimental treatments like RU and CB-03-01 and SM04554. I'm impressed most docs only know of Fin and minoxidil and that's it, it's interesting you bring up cloning, as we are all dreaming of the day we could just get 25,000 grafts and have are actual density again, but how likely is this to happen in our lifetime? Dr. Lindsey said he doesn't see any major advancements happening in the next 20 years. Also, now that I have you I'd like to pick your brain what are your thoughts on bimatoprost (Latisse) as a potential adjunct to minoxidil?

[Spanker]

I have to say Dr. B it's actually refreshing when a hair restoration surgeon is in the know of cutting edge experimental treatments like RU and CB-03-01 and SM04554. I'm impressed most docs only know of Fin and minoxidil and that's it, it's interesting you bring up cloning, as we are all dreaming of the day we could just get 25,000 grafts and have are actual density again, but how likely is this to happen in our lifetime? Dr. Lindsey said he doesn't see any major advancements happening in the next 20 years. Also, now that I have you I'd like to pick your brain what are your thoughts on bimatoprost (Latisse) as a potential adjunct to minoxidil?

20 years is a awful long time out to make a prediction like that. I agree that it is very possible, but we just don't know. Donor doubling and cloning are different.

 

I have not seen much about RU on this forum.

[home1212]

Has anyone heard of doctors doing clinical trials with stem cells to regrow hair? Does this treatment have any future validity to it?

[JON86]

Has anyone heard of doctors doing clinical trials with stem cells to regrow hair? Does this treatment have any future validity to it?

 

Who knows what to believe I have seen many companies claiming they are close but could all be snake oil. If this video is a representation of a company that claims to have solved the issue we are in for a major let down. It's hilarious.

 

 

[Mikey1970]

Whats hilarious about it? Sheisedo are a the 4th largest cosmetics company in the world and have invested millions in Replicels RCH 01. They do appear to be the frontrunners (by a long way), for a stem cell based treatment. Phase 2 trails reportedly are imminent in Japan with the product possibly on market in 2018.

[Dr Blake Bloxham]

HT,

 

Thanks! Future hair loss therapies have always been a big passion of mine. I still continue actively researching to this day, and really hope to contribute -- in some small way -- to new therapies. I do have a few interesting ideas at the moment. We'll see if anything comes of it.

 

Cloning would be amazing. Being able to actually create and cultivate functional follicles or even follicle-like structures capable of creating hair that are stable -- and safe -- enough to be implanted would be huge. Will it happen in our lifetime? I don't think so -- but you can never say for sure.

 

The problem is that cloning any type of cell is still really in its infancy. But the hair follicle is no simple cell. It's actually an extremely complex mini-organ with two active areas of stem cell activity that must communicate with each other -- and the environment -- to function properly. It would be a huge challenge to clone just one of these. But thousands for implantation? That's huge. Will it occur in our lifetimes? I'm not overly confident, but "never say never;" right?

 

Donor doubling is a bit more realistic, and would still be a huge, huge leap if we figured out a way to make it viable and safe. It's not there yet either, but it is a more obtainable goal when compared to true cloning.

 

With respect to the bimatoprost, I've never been too sold on the prostaglandin hair loss theory. I think Dr Costeralis -- the researcher behind this theory -- is excellent and has done a lot of solid work, but I don't know how effective these prostaglandin-based therapies will be. The issue -- in my mind -- is that the prostaglandin-theory is very far "down stream" when it comes to the cascade responsible for actually causing follicles to go into a perpetual state of telogen resting.

 

It's kind of like poking a hole in a dam, and then trying to dump a load of towels or sponges in the stream a mile away from the dam itself. Sure, it's addressing the leaking problem. But water is going to continue pouring out as long as that hole is still in the dam. In this analogy, the hole in the dam is truly the interaction between DHT and the androgen receptors in the follicle, and I think the most effective treatments address this interaction. BUT we all know that this can create a litany of other problems because hormones are involved.

 

Having said that, prostaglandin-based therapies may still do something if the "final nail in the coffin" for the follicle really has a lot to do with inflammation. It may not stop the main problem, but it could keep the follicle afloat -- I'm really stuck on these water analogies today -- for a little while IF it's truly the inflammation from the bad prostaglandins (remember there are good and bad ones -- yes, the follicle is extremely complicated) that finally push the follicle past the point of no return.

 

As an adjunct, they could be helpful. I haven't seen any overly convincing evidence of bimatoprost on it's own. I'd be interested to see how it may work synergistically with setipiprant (which addresses the same problem but attacks it a slightly different way).

 

So, I don't foresee it doing too much on it's own. Used as an adjunct with a number of other medications that attack differently -- anti-DHT, minoxidil, etc -- it may help.

 

Hope this was helpful or interesting!

[Dr Blake Bloxham]

Home,

 

There are some clinics in Europe experimenting with adipose (fat) derived stem cell injections. The theory is that scalp affected by male pattern baldness changes. Not just in the follicles themselves, but also the tissue surrounding the follicles. Specifically, it becomes devoid of fat and the fat-derived stem cells associated with it. These adipose stem cells communicate with the follicle stem cells in healthy scalp, and the theory proposes that you need this communication for follicles to thrive. If you implant a healthy follicle into unhealthy scalp without supportive fatty tissue -- and this is why a hair transplant with healthy grafts still works -- it won't survive.

 

So, some are now trying to inject these fat-derived stem cells into the scalp to see if they start communicating with the resting follicles and wake them back up. I haven't seen any convincing evidence yet myself, but we'll likely see more in the future.

 

There are other companies -- like Replicel discussed above -- who are more focused on injecting follicle-derived stem cells into the scalp. I don't remember where Replicel is at the moment. I know they have done some Phase I testing and wanted to take advantage of a new law in Japan that allows medications to come to market after Phase II testing, but I don't believe they have released anything from Phase II testing. I think, like SM04554, people weren't overly thrilled with the gains seen from the original data released.

[Melvin- Admin]

HT,

 

Thanks! Future hair loss therapies have always been a big passion of mine. I still continue actively researching to this day, and really hope to contribute -- in some small way -- to new therapies. I do have a few interesting ideas at the moment. We'll see if anything comes of it.

 

Cloning would be amazing. Being able to actually create and cultivate functional follicles or even follicle-like structures capable of creating hair that are stable -- and safe -- enough to be implanted would be huge. Will it happen in our lifetime? I don't think so -- but you can never say for sure.

 

The problem is that cloning any type of cell is still really in its infancy. But the hair follicle is no simple cell. It's actually an extremely complex mini-organ with two active areas of stem cell activity that must communicate with each other -- and the environment -- to function properly. It would be a huge challenge to clone just one of these. But thousands for implantation? That's huge. Will it occur in our lifetimes? I'm not overly confident, but "never say never;" right?

 

Donor doubling is a bit more realistic, and would still be a huge, huge leap if we figured out a way to make it viable and safe. It's not there yet either, but it is a more obtainable goal when compared to true cloning.

 

With respect to the bimatoprost, I've never been too sold on the prostaglandin hair loss theory. I think Dr Costeralis -- the researcher behind this theory -- is excellent and has done a lot of solid work, but I don't know how effective these prostaglandin-based therapies will be. The issue -- in my mind -- is that the prostaglandin-theory is very far "down stream" when it comes to the cascade responsible for actually causing follicles to go into a perpetual state of telogen resting.

 

It's kind of like poking a hole in a dam, and then trying to dump a load of towels or sponges in the stream a mile away from the dam itself. Sure, it's addressing the leaking problem. But water is going to continue pouring out as long as that hole is still in the dam. In this analogy, the hole in the dam is truly the interaction between DHT and the androgen receptors in the follicle, and I think the most effective treatments address this interaction. BUT we all know that this can create a litany of other problems because hormones are involved.

 

Having said that, prostaglandin-based therapies may still do something if the "final nail in the coffin" for the follicle really has a lot to do with inflammation. It may not stop the main problem, but it could keep the follicle afloat -- I'm really stuck on these water analogies today -- for a little while IF it's truly the inflammation from the bad prostaglandins (remember there are good and bad ones -- yes, the follicle is extremely complicated) that finally push the follicle past the point of no return.

 

As an adjunct, they could be helpful. I haven't seen any overly convincing evidence of bimatoprost on it's own. I'd be interested to see how it may work synergistically with setipiprant (which addresses the same problem but attacks it a slightly different way).

 

So, I don't foresee it doing too much on it's own. Used as an adjunct with a number of other medications that attack differently -- anti-DHT, minoxidil, etc -- it may help.

 

Hope this was helpful or interesting!

 

Wow very comprehensive write up Dr. B thank you for that, one question what alternative do you recommend to patients who can't tolerate finasteride? I'm dabbling between getting topical finasteride, the only problem I see as you have mentioned is the absorption, I've also thought of adding azaleic acid to my minoxidil regimen it's s shame FDA has it pulled from every hairloss product.

[Spanker]

Wow very comprehensive write up Dr. B thank you for that, one question what alternative do you recommend to patients who can't tolerate finasteride? I'm dabbling between getting topical finasteride, the only problem I see as you have mentioned is the absorption, I've also thought of adding azaleic acid to my minoxidil regimen it's s shame FDA has it pulled from every hairloss product.

 

My concern with topical finasteride is safety to the people around you. Women are not supposed to handle broken pills who are or may become pregnant. Whathe are the implications to the people in my home? Idk.

[Melvin- Admin]

My concern with topical finasteride is safety to the people around you. Women are not supposed to handle broken pills who are or may become pregnant. Whathe are the implications to the people in my home? Idk.

 

I live with my gf I don't plan on having children anytime soon, but I've thought about using it Monday, Wednesday, Friday in the mornings and taking a shower at night to ensure there is no issue with it getting on my gf. Now my main issue with this is absorption, will it be absorbed in that time frame? Do we have vehicles that will work topically? I don't know.

[Dr Blake Bloxham]

Double post

[Dr Blake Bloxham]

HT,

 

Sorry for the delay. Unfortunately, there isn't a good alternative anti-androgen available right now for those who experience sides with finasteride. Topicals may be an option if, like you said, they are being absorbed properly. There are a number of vehicles others have used to help topical solutions absorb. I think it's difficult to tell which ones work best -- or really work at all -- because I don't think it's been studied well. But if a topical anti-androgen could be absorbed properly and stay mainly in the scalp without going system, that would be the best bet. Unfortunately, there isn't one commercially available at the moment.

[Dutchie]

I often wonder though, what if a hairloss cure is discovered tomorrow. Wouldnt those who had a 5,000 grafts hair transplant be at a disadvantage because the 5,000 incisions the doctor made on the scalp likely destroyed existing, dormant hair follicles??

 

And wont a lot of those follicles that didnt get destroyed block new hair from sprouting out??

[Stig]

I often wonder though, what if a hairloss cure is discovered tomorrow. Wouldnt those who had a 5,000 grafts hair transplant be at a disadvantage because the 5,000 incisions the doctor made on the scalp likely destroyed existing, dormant hair follicles??

 

And wont a lot of those follicles that didnt get destroyed block new hair from sprouting out??

 

Probably - but at the same time as these scientists are trying to find a cure, I'm building my own rocket ship to explore the face of Mars.

[Dutchie]

Might wanna bring a botanist with you in case you get stuck

[BaronVonHairline]

Only side-effect you might grow a monkey tail

 

Hope for baldness sufferers as new drug is found to 'reverse hair loss' | Daily Mail Online

 

Monkey tails have hair on them. That's more donor supply. I'm in!