thisguy1

Pick the one whose design you like as Konior and Diep are the same price for FUE I believe. If you prefer Diep design over Rahal - its your head, pay the extra as its not a massive amount of grafts.

Big jump btw month 4 and 6. When one looks at oneself at month 2 you cannot imagine that in 120 days it can be so different. Here is to hoping. Congrats on the big jump from where you started - you came a long way.

Some people get sides, some don't - if it happens you can go off if it. It helps to varying degrees with every person. Really it's going to be up to your body chemistry and that's just a guess to every person's ultimate reaction.

What are Gabel's prices if you could share? I would be surprised that it is materially lower than peers considering he is one of the few doctors involved in the whole process.

You need better lighting in your photo my man. As best as I can tell you are at a very near starting point as me with slightly more loss in your crown than me. But you look like you took this photo in a submarine. Best bet is Belgium or Spain (Lorenzo) for advanced countries. They specialize in FUE which is up your alley. What are your goals? I think 5000 will do you a lot of good but for example with your advanced hair loss (near to mine) you will probably only be able to sprinkle your crown with maybe 800-1000 grafts as you will want the other 4k focused on recreating a hairline with solid density and then good coverage in the front to back scalp. The back of the crown you won't be able to get the same density unless you are going up over 6K IMO from photos. FUE to 5K should be reasonable...past that it gets dicey depending on your hair density, hair diameter, scalp size, etc. There are good FUE surgeons in USA - but they cost way more. You might as well take the train to Belgium and save yourself the time flight cost and save $$$$ as FUE is cheaper in western Europe. Go get a consultation in UK then Belgium and compare and contrast and talk to your doctor if they think you can get 6K out of your head FUE only.

You weren't "that" bad before but damn son your hair is amazing now. Nice result!

I'm at 2 months as well and I'd say you should expect to look the same or worse. I had some shock loss along my FUT scar for an inch below it much of the way around and I started on Rogaine so am in the phase of shedding in areas (crown) where I started using it. I never used Rogaine however before so someone who was a long time user would not be getting the shed I had. So at this point you have some of the scalp trauma healing (more for FUT than FUE as the scars are tinier for the latter) and you have shed much of the implanted hairs. Maybe some new ones are beginning to emerge but not enough for anyone to notice but you. Some people have shock loss. Esp. diffuse thinners. Some have shock loss at donor area, etc. If you did FUT most likely your hair length on top is diff than on sides and back so you look like a clown still. So yes this is firmly in ugly duck stage for most people but as a FUE guy its prob not as bad for you. In about 45 days you (we) should be coming out of the depths and on the upward path. As to going back to work with FUE I'd say its about day 8-10, with FUT its hard to hide anytime in the first month it unless (a) you have your hair long in the donor area and (b) you went to a doctor willing to work on you without cutting down your recipient area.

I have the same concern as HTSoon on your graft placement. Even before looking at your photo I would say you need 2 passes as a NW6 (or 7) if your 1st pass is only 2850. For "pretty darn good coverage" you should be estimating 6000 grafts as your 2 passes so you are going to want a 3000 or so 2nd surgery. Then I looked at your graft photo and I dont like the strategy of covering the entire scalp. It appears you went all the way back into the crown with less than 3000? You are going to have mediocre density all over IMO - I've seen some people try this and personally I dont like the cosmetic effect - it makes you look thinning all over. I think the better strategy is to rebuild the front half to two thirds and then be "relatively bald" in the back third//crown as it at least frames your face from the front where 90% of people see you. I always ask people who did this strategy - was it your idea or the doctor's? Did you discuss the difference between the 2 strategies? If you can afford it I'd go and get the 2nd surgery within 12-18 months since I think you are going to not love the lack of density when this grows out. If you had focused just on the front half I think you could have gotten away with waiting for a few years for your 2nd surgery if you preferred. As to your questions really you should ask the doctor what graft availability you had as he was right there. You should be able to get 4-5K wih FUE overall I'd think but nothing beats a doctor looking at your head. You need to check for miniaturization to make sure you are not pulling for any areas that are at risk. When people shave the donor so close like this it is difficult to evaluate it from photos. Cropped hair always looks more thin than grown out hair style. My honest opinion is you have generally limited hair supply so you probably wanted to do a strip surgery as long as you didnt want to wear your hair short rest of life as I think you would have gotten more grafts in total. Now you have a finite area you can pull from and you can only pull 1 out of every 3/4 grafts in that finite area without risking showing thinning. With strip you could have taken 100% of those grafts from the prime donor area and in your case you need every single valuable one.

I wonder if 9000 grafts is the most anyone has had in 1 "procedure" - I realize this was over course of a few weeks but that is close enough I'd consider it 1 procedure. You basically had 6900 at once and then a touch up of 2158 immediately after. Reminds me of the H&W guy who did 10K grafts in a decade or so, but you did it all in a few weeks. Holy smoke. And that's a boatload of hair for 5 months - my first thought you are an early grower but my second thought is you had so many grafts placed in it's just normal growth but your density is more than most people since most of us are doing a 3500 graft situation and say 50% grow in by month 5 = 1750 grafts. You had 9000 so if 50% grow in by month 5 = 4500 grafts.

It works on the same concept everywhere but its efficacy seems to be highest in the crown. So say it has 80% success rate in crown it might have 50% success elsewhere. Also it is useless to use it on areas with no hair etc.

Post a photo from the top looking down it helps. There is nothing wrong with posting names of surgeons. There is nothing wrong with one saying 1500 v 2500. They may have slightly different visions of what you are conveying to them. It's not like 1500 v 5000. You may be conveying a view of what you want your hairline to look like and do and each surgeon might be hearing it differently. Or both look at your head, hear the same message, and have different estimates. You look to have pretty wavy hair from this angle at least so could help you reduce # of needed grafts. Honestly if you do 1800 FUE there is nothing that stops you to go back from doing 800 later if you want. Unlike FUT you dont clip a bunch of skin in one fell swoop out of your head and with FUE you can go in and do it in a short period of time one after the other. And if you are going for the "up" rather than "forward" yes those styles require more density in the frontal zone.

If you really want to keep your hair very short you need to focus on FUE. I've had my hair short for 10 years because I had too - it looks silly to be balding with long sides and back. So I cherish the day I can grow hair out more than a 4 guard haha. I want to be able to comb my hair again - it sounds groovy. Sounds like you do not. So in your case probably FUE is up your alley - but if you want to have a very close cut hair style the FUE risk is of course over harvesting and exposing the small mini scars of FUE. Not an issue if you are pulling out 3000 - something that can be an issue if you are trying to pull out 7000 or whatever. If you are open to body hair or whatever in the crown than FUE can be more of an option as well for you. 26 or 28 same issues.

Embrace them while you can. Because in about a week you will start to hear tiny little kerplunks all over the place. :cool: Then they get all belligerent and decide to go on vacation for a few months.

You sound like you want full coverage and you have no idea what your crown prognosis is. A lot of "advanced" norwood 5s and 6s sort of work on the front 80% and then only "sprinkle" their crowns - and thats with 6000+ grafts. I mean in theory you could do 6500 grafts in 2 sessions in next 10 months but you wouldn't be done as your crown could be another case altogether in 6 years. Just giving you some food for thought. Also I didnt mean to imply FUE is not "advanced". When done right you see some awesome results. But I also think its a lot easier to screw up with the amount of material around the bulb being less than in FUT, and also transection issues. And despite "best case scenarios" I just think its a lot easier getting 6000+ grafts out of your head with FUT than FUE. And it seems like you have very aggressive goals so even 6K is probably not going to satisfy you. I get your points about the exercise and the inability to shave yoru head. I guess its up to each person how long they can tolerate looking silly And yes if you are a hardcore workout addict then FUT is going to be an issue for a good # of months. Re: silly look - if you can stand to grow your hair out a bit more some doctors like Cooley, Alexander (and Konior will do it) will do the surgery without shaving down your recipient area. That could help mask some of the silliness of look in ugly duckling stage.

This clinic should be pinned to the top of every section of this forum with a huge warning in bold text in red letters.... and all other hair loss forums. It's a true disgrace what they are doing and getting away with. There are only so many grafts to be had in a head to donate and even forgetting the money they are stealing people's finite resources. On top of that their after the fact policy of "take down the bad review or else" crap is ridiculous. I feel for you man. How the heck do people of this nature sleep at night knowing what they do to people. At this point regular users of this site just need to keep bumping these stories to front page so new readers can hopefully avoid this place.

As I wrote earlier 2500 will do you a lot of good now. What happens in the future happens in the future. Your "back" of crown is really solid now; all your loss is on top of scalp. Who knows - maybe your back of crown stays that way forever. Or it stars falling apart tomorrow. No one is doing endless surgeries - there are a few freaks here who are doing 3-4-5 sessions but most people are doing 1-2. If the back of crown stays intact I think you will really be in good shape for 8-10 years. Then who knows - only your body can tell us where it is headed. I would expect more loss on top of scalp over time but the wildcard is the crown. A crown can suck up 2000 grafts if someone wants to go hog wild in covering it. If you dont need it, 5000 over your life is probably going to be more than adequate. If you lose much of your crown in 10 years you will need a bigger 2nd surgery and you can deal with it then. You are looking for near guarantees in a world where there are none.

Looks like you are 26 years old and advanced hair loss. Because of your age and stage I'd push you towards FUT. Especially with your goals of not looking balding "at all" etc. FUE generally is not going to get the same yield as FUT and bad FUEs are more common than bad FUTs. I am not saying that because I did FUT - if I was a norwood 2 at age 35 I'd do FUE myself. You talked about a "year of recovery". It's not a year of recovery. Probably 4 weeks where it is "very apparent" and another 4 weeks where it is noticable to some. And then by month 3 you are in the same state as a FUE patient - all shedded out and waiting for growth. The main difference is the first 2 months. So why not do the thing that gets you the most yield and hits the prime donor area in return for 2 months of recovery that is more intense than FUE? 2 months variance is not much in lieu of 30-40-50 years of hair ahead. FUT is also cheaper and you live in the U.S. so travel tot op FUT doctors is easier. Now the only variable is your eventual goals of wearing your hair - you can probably safely get away with guard 5 with FUT and maybe 4. (some guys lower but assume average case not best cases in the world) Can you live with that length on sides and back? If no - than FUT is not for you and you need to go FUE and realize you wont get the same # of grafts in your lifetime. If you are set on guard 2/3 you wont be happy with FUT although some will say go get it and them get FUE into the scar tissue. It's no sure thing. You are essentially now a NW5 - diffuse. By mid 30s that means NW5/NW6 - not diffuse. So for the "not bald" look we are talking 6500-7500+ grafts IMO over 2 surgeries. That's going to be a tough get with FUE only especially if your yield is not 97%+ each time. And even then it's a tough get. Last piece of advise is I'd wait in between surgeries a lot longer than 10 months. If you were 40 I'd advise differently but with your diffuse pattern you are going to want to fill in areas that currently have hairs down the road. So until they fall out it's a bit difficult to do. Also a HT can cause those hairs to fall out more quickly i.e. shock loss. So you might want to do a H&W 4500 graft session and then give it 5 years. I know what you want to do - get it all done in 10 months and go on with life but there is a real situation here where you'd have to go in for a 3rd session due to no fault of doctor but because you want coverage at age 34 where you have hair at 26. 4500 would do you a lot of good and hold you over for quite a while until you need to do your 2nd.

It is pretty clear if your name is Matt and you live anywhere in the world you should be going to Konior. I've seen quite a few Matts now with big results from this doctor!

"That's what she said." - Michael G. Scott.

I would think there is massive incentive for a cute. Hair loss affects probably 1 in 3 humans on earth. Other than heart disease I am not sure there is another ailment that affects more people. I do agree I am surprised there are not more companies attacking the problem but holy smoke if someone comes up with a cure that someone could have Bill Gates money in a few decades.

Yes they will put in hairs assuming your native hair (if thinning and miniaturizing) is on the way out. Sometimes the HT procedure itself accelerates those weak hairs leaving so something to be aware of. That's called "permanent shock loss". Looking at your photos you have a pretty good amount of hair loss for a 23 year old. But if you were 35 it would be very much in line. So keep on the meds, take photos every 6 months or 12 months and monitor how your loss is progressing and try to hold out for a few more years. Some doctors won't operate at all on someone your age. Your family history is usually on your mom's side but I wouldn't count on an exact pattern. You can see in your own head some loss very early in life so my assumption is you are headed for NW5/6 down the road - most of us who are that level began losing hair in our early 20s like you.

There is a great liklihood you will be fighting MPB all life even with the Big 3 if you material loss at this young of an age. Generally the thought is there is some efficacy loss with fin in time - how much time is up for debate but 15-20 years down the road it wont be as helpful as 5 years down the road. Not sure if that is true for minox or not but expectations for massive hair regrowth with either are to be kept in line - they can sure help, and certaintly at maintaining and slowing down the process. So at your age you are fighting a multi decade battle and need to go in realistic. As to your original question you can usually count on hair loss ending when you die. 23 is very young - see if you can hold out 3-4 years at least and see how things progress in terms of your pattern. Then find a good doctor who will build a good long term plan for you - that plan should include a relatively conservative hairline and not throwing 3000 grafts into the first 3-4 inches of your head. Your HT wont be a "waste of money" - those hairs will stay and some natives will go. There are NW5s and NW6s who get HT all the time in the area there is no hair at all, which is not what your case is - and there are benefits. You wont have Justin Bieber hair though so you just have to be realistic - you can get a solid result that even in sunlight doesnt look like you are "balding" if it is done well.

That's outrageous. Was that for FUE only? I think you can get better prices in Manhattan! I know Boca Raton is "uppity" but holy smoke. I think that was the guy featured on Dateline so he is probably taking advantage of the notoriety. Anyhow good progress from month 2 to month 6! Can you post pre-op photos here? Looks like you have another thread but since you are updating here would be nice to see the before. Sounds like you are going for 7K total over 2 passes so we will be on similar journeys. Was Dr. Wong confident on your laxity to get a 2nd FUT?

Even if something were found tomorrow as a solution I am curious what % of people would go out and use it immediately rather than wait 5-6 years and see what the "real" long term side effects are in a large population (rather than small controlled groups for small amount of years). I am also wondering what % of men would be willing to grow a tail to get a full head of hair without surgery. :cool:

Yes. Start with foam at least there. (not generic) Some think liquid is more effective but more prone to inflaming sclap, causing itchiness, and its just more work to apply. p.s. I was never on minox until post op so I am giving it a shot now and in throes of shedding in crown. :rolleyes: