Senior Member Dr. James Vogel Posted February 26, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) Great example of the difference framing makes! Edited February 26, 2016 by James E. Vogel, MD Dr. James Vogel is a member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gbhscot Posted February 26, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted February 26, 2016 If that's what 4K grafts gets you, I'm abandoning looking at HTs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member chris39 Posted February 26, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted February 26, 2016 If that's what 4K grafts gets you, I'm abandoning looking at HTs Eh ? Do you not think it's a big mprovement ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Spanker Posted February 27, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted February 27, 2016 If that's what 4K grafts gets you, I'm abandoning looking at HTs You probably should if you are a high NW level and this doesn't do anything for you. Hair systems are more work but can provide a fuller look. It really comes down to what will satisfy you. I am an online representative for Dr. Raymond Konior who is an elite member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians. View Dr. Konior's Website View Spanker's Website I am not a medical professional and my opinions should not be taken as medical advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Stig Posted February 27, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted February 27, 2016 I'd take that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member JON86 Posted February 27, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted February 27, 2016 This is a solid change for this patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member esrec Posted February 27, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted February 27, 2016 Great change reframed his entire face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gbhscot Posted March 1, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 1, 2016 Eh ? Do you not think it's a big mprovement ? From the front, in that final pic, absolutely, huge improvement. But from any other angle, that is simply regression. He has gone from a guy who is bald, to a guy who is balding. A guy who is what he is and isn't hiding it, to a guy who can't accept it and will now worry his hair for the rest of his life. My take on it is, unless the HT is going to genuinely resolve the issues coming with hair loss, don't do it. I wonder how the patient feels about it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Spanker Posted March 1, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 1, 2016 From the front, in that final pic, absolutely, huge improvement. But from any other angle, that is simply regression. He has gone from a guy who is bald, to a guy who is balding. A guy who is what he is and isn't hiding it, to a guy who can't accept it and will now worry his hair for the rest of his life. My take on it is, unless the HT is going to genuinely resolve the issues coming with hair loss, don't do it. I wonder how the patient feels about it.... Yeah man. I agree with you that HT is not for you. HT'S for a deep NW level will never make balding a non issue and like you haven't lost any hair. Lucky for you, you recognize that and you know what your standard of success is. You have that going for and that will keep you from being disappointed and keep you from being one of those guys saying a HT ruined your life when to many it looks like a decent result. Kmowing what your expectations are is very important for HT'S. If a doc ever tells you that your expectations can be met I would be very wary of him. You should show him this result, and tell him that you do not think this is an acceptable result. If he still wants to operate on you, let us know. I am an online representative for Dr. Raymond Konior who is an elite member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians. View Dr. Konior's Website View Spanker's Website I am not a medical professional and my opinions should not be taken as medical advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member chris39 Posted March 1, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 1, 2016 A guy who is what he is and isn't hiding it, to a guy who can't accept it and will now worry his hair for the rest of his life. I'm pretty sure he's not in the least worried about it post surgery. My take on it is, unless the HT is going to genuinely resolve the issues coming with hair loss, don't do it. I wonder how the patient feels about it.... I'm sure he's really pissed off mate . That smile's just for show . I wonder how the patient feels about it.... Hopefully he's at peace with himself ! Seriously , I don't know what your level of hair loss is ( if any ) , or where you may be headed to , but if those are your thoughts , then indeed , never consider a HT if you do suffer hair loss . There's not a surgeon in the universe who will satisfy your goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mick50 Posted March 1, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 1, 2016 I have to agree with chris39 it's a good outcome given where the guy started, no longer an an egg head and nice framing of the face, a large part of a successful transplant is expectation, if a NW6 expects a full head of hair with 4200 grafts he will be sorely disappointed the truth is some people should avoid having a transplant as they expect too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Dolph1969 Posted March 1, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 1, 2016 I'd take that What he said.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1_ez_goer Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Given the before vs after I think this is a solid job. And given the age of the patient (50-ish), I bet he is more than happy with these results. I am 45 and I would take that result all day long. It's a different story if you are in your 20's or 30's. Nice work Dr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member TakingThePlunge Posted March 2, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 2, 2016 Looks like a desirable transformation to me! David - Former Forum Co-Moderator and Editorial Assistant I am not a medical professional. All opinions are my own and my advice should not constitute as medical advice. View my Hair Loss Website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Matt27 Posted March 5, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 5, 2016 From the front, in that final pic, absolutely, huge improvement. But from any other angle, that is simply regression. He has gone from a guy who is bald, to a guy who is balding. A guy who is what he is and isn't hiding it, to a guy who can't accept it and will now worry his hair for the rest of his life. My take on it is, unless the HT is going to genuinely resolve the issues coming with hair loss, don't do it. I wonder how the patient feels about it.... The biggest benefit of a HT is to restore a frame to your face. If you have insecurity regarding the appearance of your actual hair, it won't fix that unless you're a low NW. My issue with hair loss is how it affects the appearance of my face. I just want a frame. I don't care about having a nice head of hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member home1212 Posted March 5, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 5, 2016 same here Matt - my objective with my HT was not to have a full head of hair at 46 now 47 years old, I wanted hair restoration to rebuild a very conservative hairline and frontal zone so that I didn't look "older" than my age .. since I was a high NW, I wasn't worried about crown restoration or high density, it was purely about an aesthetically pleasing, natural result. Dr. Rahal totally got it right for my situation ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted March 5, 2016 Administrators Share Posted March 5, 2016 From the front, in that final pic, absolutely, huge improvement. But from any other angle, that is simply regression. He has gone from a guy who is bald, to a guy who is balding. A guy who is what he is and isn't hiding it, to a guy who can't accept it and will now worry his hair for the rest of his life. My take on it is, unless the HT is going to genuinely resolve the issues coming with hair loss, don't do it. I wonder how the patient feels about it.... Do yourself a favor and abandon looking in to HT's, you should look in to hair systems, they fix the balding issue in its entirety. You are 100% not a candidate for any type of procedure except maybe smp. I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member home1212 Posted March 5, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 5, 2016 From the front, in that final pic, absolutely, huge improvement. But from any other angle, that is simply regression. He has gone from a guy who is bald, to a guy who is balding. A guy who is what he is and isn't hiding it, to a guy who can't accept it and will now worry his hair for the rest of his life. My take on it is, unless the HT is going to genuinely resolve the issues coming with hair loss, don't do it. I wonder how the patient feels about it.... Hair transplants taking existing hair from your donor and move it to balding areas - so you're not cloning or getting more hair than what you already have... most people with hair loss and everyone in general have a "limited" amount of grafts that can be transplanted out of the "safe zone" - NO ONE HAS AN UNLIMITED amount of of hair to "genuinely resolve the issues coming with hair loss" as you stated, therefore your knowledge on the topic is limited and your expectations are probably unrealistic .. I agree with others that a HT procedure is probably not for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gbhscot Posted March 7, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 7, 2016 Hair transplants taking existing hair from your donor and move it to balding areas - so you're not cloning or getting more hair than what you already have... most people with hair loss and everyone in general have a "limited" amount of grafts that can be transplanted out of the "safe zone" - NO ONE HAS AN UNLIMITED amount of of hair to "genuinely resolve the issues coming with hair loss" as you stated, therefore your knowledge on the topic is limited and your expectations are probably unrealistic .. I agree with others that a HT procedure is probably not for you. Actually, having spent over a year researching it and having had several productive discussions with HT surgeons on here and in private, I wouldn't say my knowledge was limited. Believe me, I'm quite clear that NO ONE HAS AN UNLIMITED amount of hair..but well done to you for working that one out for yourself. Thanks loads for your breakdown of what a HT actually is too man, saved me some time on google scholar etc.. My point to this was that I would expect better coverage from 4.2k grafts. Yes there is a lot of real estate there, but nonetheless I feel more density could be expected from that number. Not taking away from the surgeon etc, as patient characteristics play a large role. My opinion to it is, with that extent of hair loss, a transplant is going to leave you much more conscious of your hair and constantly thinking of it/worrying about it/adjusting it. So you are right, if that was me, I wouldn't get a HT. My HL isn't as extreme, yet of course one day could be. I know what to expect and what I would call a good result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member home1212 Posted March 8, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) cool, having read your responses in this thread I would never have known you've been researching hairtransplants for over a year - especially when you make a naive and sarcastic comment that you don't feel you should be paying for a "magic trick" - when in fact you are doing exactly that - you're paying for the "illusion" of density - you gain absolutely no more hair than you already have - so essentially yes! its a great magic trick..... good luck to you! sounds like you'll need it. Edited March 8, 2016 by home1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gbhscot Posted March 8, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 8, 2016 cool, having read your responses in this thread I would never have known you've been researching hairtransplants for over a year - especially when you make a naive and sarcastic comment that you don't feel you should be paying for a "magic trick" - when in fact you are doing exactly that - you're paying for the "illusion" of density - you gain absolutely no more hair than you already have - so essentially yes! its a great magic trick..... good luck to you! sounds like you'll need it. The only illusion I see is that of you imagining things. Where did I ever write magic trick? And when have I ever stated that a HT was anything other than the moving of follicles from one area to another, thus gaining no new hair (Hint: transplant instead of Implant suggested that to me) I just feel that if a better illusion can't be created with 4K grafts, then other options might be preferable. That's what my over a year of HT research has taught me (infact, that is what some top surgeons have told me) Apparently you haven't read my posts very carefully? Btw, was 1 pic removed from the OP? I recall there being another one there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member chris39 Posted March 8, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 8, 2016 The only illusion I see is that of you imagining things. Where did I ever write magic trick? And when have I ever stated that a HT was anything other than the moving of follicles from one area to another, thus gaining no new hair (Hint: transplant instead of Implant suggested that to me) I just feel that if a better illusion can't be created with 4K grafts, then other options might be preferable. That's what my over a year of HT research has taught me (infact, that is what some top surgeons have told me) Apparently you haven't read my posts very carefully? Btw, was 1 pic removed from the OP? I recall there being another one there.... The bottom line is that you're pretty much a lone voice in thinking that the 4k grafts didn't create as good a result as you would have expected . Fair enough , that's your opinion. We're all in here for the same reason - to offer and receive advice . The consensus in this thread is that the result is good for the number of grafts and area covered . If that doesn't fit with your opinion , then that's fine . It's what he forums are all about . You've maybe taken some of the opinions as a personal attack , but to be fair I think they're all well intentioned . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gbhscot Posted March 8, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 8, 2016 The bottom line is that you're pretty much a lone voice in thinking that the 4k grafts didn't create as good a result as you would have expected . Fair enough , that's your opinion. We're all in here for the same reason - to offer and receive advice . The consensus in this thread is that the result is good for the number of grafts and area covered . If that doesn't fit with your opinion , then that's fine . It's what he forums are all about . You've maybe taken some of the opinions as a personal attack , but to be fair I think they're all well intentioned . Meh some of them were edging on the confrontational to which I'll respond in turn. And yeah I seem to be the only guy of that view but at the end of the day, we have forums to discuss and play devils advocat which is what I was doing here. Do you have any clarity whether one of the pics was removed btw? I recall there being one taken from above post-op which is the one I was most skeptical about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member chris39 Posted March 8, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 8, 2016 Meh some of them were edging on the confrontational to which I'll respond in turn. And yeah I seem to be the only guy of that view but at the end of the day, we have forums to discuss and play devils advocat which is what I was doing here. Do you have any clarity whether one of the pics was removed btw? I recall there being one taken from above post-op which is the one I was most skeptical about. I honestly can't recall , but don't remember an overhead pic ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member esrec Posted March 8, 2016 Senior Member Share Posted March 8, 2016 Remember, this is just one result. 4K looks different on different people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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