Feller Medical - Be Extremley Careful Paying Over Deposit

[Bobilero]

Btw i notice all the former Dr Feller patients popping up in support of Spex. Farcical.

 

I will not waste my time replying to those posts.

 

Sorry guys we can all see through this. Spex has been emailing around again.

 

I should have a look through my emails and post them here as i believe i received some of these requests from Spex to post certain things in the past.

[dingdong12]

just for confirmation how long before surgery date did you ask for refund??

 

if a few months as you say i expect any clinic to do there upmost for any patient regardless of what disclaimer says.

 

banks have been getting away with this treatment for years .

 

i doubt feller medica lwould have a problem rescheduling if indeed was months in advance as from what im led to believe they are one of the most in demand clinics in the world!

[chrisdav]

Bobilero I use this forum every day and post regularly.

 

I am a patient myself who is 8 months post op and I continue to use the site as I enjoy participating on the forum and posting my progress to help others who maybe in a similar situation to me.

 

All of my posts are on my own accord and have no links or contact with anyone.

 

I give my own opinions and do not favour any surgeon more than any other and if you read my posts, you would realise that I comment on all of the surgeons work good or bad.

[BadBeat]

You do realize why they clinics make deposits non-refundable, right? By them blocking out a particular day (which they did, but you initially said they didn't) they lose out on potential revenue if you cancel and they don't fill the day. There might have been 5 other guys that wanted that day but were told the clinic was booked. If the average procedure is $10K, they actually lost $8500 in potential revenue if they keep your deposit but don't end up doing your procedure. It has nothing to do with trying to screw you over.

 

I would bet that almost any elective cosmetic surgery office has the same policies. It's the nature of the business. A lot of patients get cold feet and back out at the last minute. If there was no deposit I bet that it would not be uncommon at all for everybody at the clinic to be ready to go on the day of the procedure and have the patient not even show up and then avoid all phone calls and emails.

 

It sounds to me that you got cold feet and now you're just acting like a child trying to get your money back. If you didn't think that a non-refundable deposit was fair, then you should have never made that phone call with your credit card number. Take some accountability for your actions.

[Bobilero]

You do realize why they clinics make deposits non-refundable, right? By them blocking out a particular day (which they did, but you initially said they didn't) they lose out on potential revenue if you cancel and they don't fill the day. There might have been 5 other guys that wanted that day but were told the clinic was booked. If the average procedure is $10K, they actually lost $8500 in potential revenue if they keep your deposit but don't end up doing your procedure. It has nothing to do with trying to screw you over.

 

I would bet that almost any elective cosmetic surgery office has the same policies. It's the nature of the business. A lot of patients get cold feet and back out at the last minute. If there was no deposit I bet that it would not be uncommon at all for everybody at the clinic to be ready to go on the day of the procedure and have the patient not even show up and then avoid all phone calls and emails.

 

It sounds to me that you got cold feet and now you're just acting like a child trying to get your money back. If you didn't think that a non-refundable deposit was fair, then you should have never made that phone call with your credit card number. Take some accountability for your actions.

 

Are you a total moron or did you just receive a email from Spex to chip in. ? Read my story again and post an intelligent comment and i will reply to it accordingly.

[BadBeat]

Are you a total moron or did you just receive a email from Spex to chip in. ? Read my story again and post an intelligent comment and i will reply to it accordingly.

 

Now you're just making yourself look bad (if that's even possible). Yes, I read your entire thread. I've never had any direct contact with Spex in my life. The only reason I even posted in your thread is because I can't stand people like you who play the "victim" role and don't take responsibility for your actions.

 

Initially, you said there was never a specific date booked. Spex posted an email that proved you are a liar. You have yet to address that but nevertheless you still agreed to a non-refundable deposit so what does it matter? You are trying to change the terms of what you agreed to. Be a man and accept that you agreed to it and hold yourself accountable.

[Bobilero]

Now you're just making yourself look bad (if that's even possible). Yes, I read your entire thread. I've never had any direct contact with Spex in my life. The only reason I even posted in your thread is because I can't stand people like you who play the "victim" role and don't take responsibility for your actions.

 

Initially, you said there was never a specific date booked. Spex posted an email that proved you are a liar. You have yet to address that but nevertheless you still agreed to a non-refundable deposit so what does it matter? You are trying to change the terms of what you agreed to. Be a man and accept that you agreed to it and hold yourself accountable.

 

 

Ok ill spell it out for you again. At no stage did anyone from Feller Medical prior to me paying it make me aware the deposit was non refundable . THIS IS THE WHOLE BASIS OF MY GRIPE HERE. NOTHING ELSE. If that had happened 100% my bad.

 

This did not happen and i had no knowledge it was on the website as i have stated many times previously on this thread. What kind of business conduct is it to not disclose to a client a deposit they are paying is non refundable prior to them putting money down.? It is their duty to do this and intentionally or otherwise they did not do this.

 

A Liar? I havent lied about anything here. I disclosed when asked i had a date in Jan several months in advance but cancelled it almost immediately several months in advance. That what i meant when i said i had no concrete date lined up and wasnt even months away from a date. You can try miscontrue words all you want but your clearly just another Spex chum.

 

Your below comment is laughable given my repeated statements and just proves you havent read this thread properly and are not willing to objectively. I wont be replying to anymore of your cheerleading.

 

nevertheless you still agreed to a non-refundable deposit so what does it matter? You are trying to change the terms of what you agreed to. Be a man and accept that you agreed to it and hold yourself accountable.

[dingdong12]

bobilero; i appreciate you are angry but try to be a bit more calm with your language ; it will only alienate members if they think you are abusing them.

 

bottom line for me is if surgery is cancelled well in advance and someone else can be found to take spot the client should be refunded his money or at least partial.

 

if you were not told when taking payment that the deposit was non refundable, perhaps feller medical and all other clinics should make a point of doing so over and above what is stated on their websites.

 

we all on occassion dont read through all documents etc when eager to get something done. the banks have shafted people for years with their small print. im not saying that this is the case here, but if deposits are not refundable clinics should remind patients of this when taking money in case they did not read website thoroughly .

[Shampoo]

Just a comparative note to add to this discussion.

 

When I recently made my appointment with Hasson & Wong they required a deposit of $500 within one week of scheduling surgery.

 

They do require a sizeable down payment three weeks prior to a procedure.

 

In my confirmation e-mail of scheduling a surgery they were pretty clear and seemingly quite fair about cancellations...see below:

 

"If you need to cancel surgery seven days’ notice must be given to avoid a cancellation fee of $500. Both deposits will be non-refundable and non-transferable if surgery is cancelled within 48 hours of your scheduled appointment. If you have any questions regarding the cancellation policy please contact me directly"

[dingdong12]

very interesting shampoo

 

i think they are being very generous here id say within a few weeks of surgery date is cutting it fine but a few months ; something should be able to be done for patient

[Sean]

Bobilero, clinics on this forum having different deposit policies. Full refund, partial refund, or no refund and at different timelines/circumstances.

 

For me, my docs website updated time to time, including pricing changes, policies, and certain info was not available from 2008 to now. I relied on it for general info but I basically want everything in writing as I keep a very detailed record of everything. The clinic also keeps things in writing too including signed paperwork and I am glad as it saves the patient and the doc in the end. My clinic mentioned the policies, pre op steps, bloodwork requests, etc, in email, which included, a payment and booking form. That payment and booking form was to be signed and basically stated the terms of deposit, non-refundable (under certain circumstances/timelines/rules) according to their policy, which was to be returned to the clinic. I don't know how each and every clinic does this. I can only give a view as to how things were done in my situation.

 

So, If you were informed of it at the time then obviously you knew, if you weren't informed of it through communication then obviously you didn't know. In what method were you informed and at what point in time, only you and the clinic knows it best and no one else here. But it's best not to react if you feel challenged because it's no good and it only escalates things. No matter what best thing is to try to keep calm. I'm guessing a moderator has probably contacted you by now to find out the situation/concerns, so they can forward it to the doc, and then come to a response in this thread. It's not going to go on forever as this thread will be probably be locked if the nature of this thread changes to name calling and if the moderator personally decides he needs to close it. I hope the matter is resolved for everyone in this situation.

[Bobilero]

bobilero; i appreciate you are angry but try to be a bit more calm with your language ; it will only alienate members if they think you are abusing them.

 

bottom line for me is if surgery is cancelled well in advance and someone else can be found to take spot the client should be refunded his money or at least partial.

 

if you were not told when taking payment that the deposit was non refundable, perhaps feller medical and all other clinics should make a point of doing so over and above what is stated on their websites.

 

we all on occassion dont read through all documents etc when eager to get something done. the banks have shafted people for years with their small print. im not saying that this is the case here, but if deposits are not refundable clinics should remind patients of this when taking money in case they did not read website thoroughly .

 

Yes Ding Dong. MY retort was in retaliation to be called a child and a liar without any back up whatsoever from Badbeat. So i didnt resort to insults first.

 

Your point is duly taken though when im clearly not speaking to objective people.

 

My whole point here is Feller medical did not give me anything in terms of documentation or verballly that stated the deposit was non refundable prior to me paying this. Surely it is their duty to inform the client of this and not just presume the client will find it placed somewhere on their website. Im sorry that is just not good enough.

 

I should have been a schedule in writing to sign prior to me paying the deposit clearing stating the no refundable aspect if there is one in place. That is my gripe. If i was made even remotely made aware of this i would not be here complaining.

[FellerMedical]

Bob,

Spex has informed me of the situation concerning you and I wanted to address it myself. I felt my input is warranted.

Deposits are non-refundable, that is the nature of deposits unless otherwise specified. We do not take deposits to trick future patients or take advantage of them as you now contend. We do it to make sure patients live up to their end of the agreement should I secure a surgical date exclusively for them thereby rejecting all other potential patients for that day.

From the moment you paid your deposit my staff were obligated to that day and I was obligated to pay them REGARDLESS of whether you decided to back out or not. That's what it takes to keep a highly experienced and competent staff. I don't expect everyone to understand that, which is why I simply state that deposits are non-refundable.

Of course there are patients with extenuating circumstances and there are patients who back out within days of booking. I return deposits to such patients immediately. You, however, do not fall into any of these categories.

I was amazed to hear from Spex that you had actually left your deposit back in 2008 for a surgical date in early 2009. Be that as it may, you had secured a hard date which was the 16th January 2009 and then later backed out, this is exactly why I and every other clinic take deposits. This goes double for UK patients I haven't yet met, such as yourself, where I employ my entire crew because I simply don't know how big your case is going to be or how many staff I will need.

We did hold your deposit outstanding for you to use at some future date, which I was under no obligation to do, but you never pursued it until recently. And now I'm told by Spex, 4 years later, that you don't want surgery anymore and want your deposit back for whatever reason. You lost that deposit years ago as I did pay my staff for the date you obligated yourself too but failed to attend.

It is immaterial that you called to change it months before because almost EVERYONE books cases SEVERAL months in advance and it's these far dates that most patients have to choose from for their own procedures. In short, patients who wanted the same day you booked could not get it because you had already locked it in.

Rest assured that I did not profit from your deposit. Rather, I lost a day of surgery in which I not only could have earned far more, but also been able to help a more willing patient.

I trust this will bring closure to our relationship and I truly do wish you the best in future endeavors. I will not be responding or even reading this thread anymore and have asked Spex to do the same.

Dr. Alan S. Feller

Feller Medical, PC

[Spanker]

I find it pretty hard to believe that a top surgeon would be unable to fill a slot months out that got cancelled causing a loss of surgery date, therefore I doubt there was any monetary loss from the practice. That is just a guess. I feel like there would be some administrative problems if Feller Medical were losing anything because of cases that were cancelled months out.

 

It may be immaterial according to Feller Medical policy, but ethically I personally have doubt as to whether Feller Medical lost any money on this patient.

 

 

That said, OP, you are talking about almost 4 years ago. That in itself is enough reason not to give it back. After so long, IMO, you just lost the money.

[dingdong12]

i agree with spanker

[wylie]

Sorry, you don't deserve your deposit back. You don't have any legal case that I can see to recoup your deposit. Based on your decision making thus far regarding getting a HT, I'm not sure you are prepared for one emotionally or financially. It's probably best that you get better informed before ever putting a deposit down in the future.

[Bobilero]

Bob,

Spex has informed me of the situation concerning you and I wanted to address it myself. I felt my input is warranted.

Deposits are non-refundable, that is the nature of deposits unless otherwise specified. We do not take deposits to trick future patients or take advantage of them as you now contend. We do it to make sure patients live up to their end of the agreement should I secure a surgical date exclusively for them thereby rejecting all other potential patients for that day.

 

From the moment you paid your deposit my staff were obligated to that day and I was obligated to pay them REGARDLESS of whether you decided to back out or not. That's what it takes to keep a highly experienced and competent staff. I don't expect everyone to understand that, which is why I simply state that deposits are non-refundable.

 

Of course there are patients with extenuating circumstances and there are patients who back out within days of booking. I return deposits to such patients immediately. You, however, do not fall into any of these categories.

 

I was amazed to hear from Spex that you had actually left your deposit back in 2008 for a surgical date in early 2009. Be that as it may, you had secured a hard date which was the 16th January 2009 and then later backed out, this is exactly why I and every other clinic take deposits. This goes double for UK patients I haven't yet met, such as yourself, where I employ my entire crew because I simply don't know how big your case is going to be or how many staff I will need.

 

We did hold your deposit outstanding for you to use at some future date, which I was under no obligation to do, but you never pursued it until recently. And now I'm told by Spex, 4 years later, that you don't want surgery anymore and want your deposit back for whatever reason. You lost that deposit years ago as I did pay my staff for the date you obligated yourself too but failed to attend.

 

It is immaterial that you called to change it months before because almost EVERYONE books cases SEVERAL months in advance and it's these far dates that most patients have to choose from for their own procedures. In short, patients who wanted the same day you booked could not get it because you had already locked it in.

 

Rest assured that I did not profit from your deposit. Rather, I lost a day of surgery in which I not only could have earned far more, but also been able to help a more willing patient.

 

I trust this will bring closure to our relationship and I truly do wish you the best in future endeavors. I will not be responding or even reading this thread anymore and have asked Spex to do the same.

 

Dr. Alan S. Feller

 

Feller Medical, PC

 

 

For me this still dosent explain why no-one in Feller medical pointed out to me the non refundable status of the deposit. Nor does it explain why i wasn't given any documentation or verbal confirmation prior to paying the deposit that it was non refundable.

 

I put a deposit down in Sept 2008 which secured a date in Jan 2009 and then cancelled it straight away in that Sept when the bank refused the loan for the rest of the money for the procedure due to the credit crisis.

 

I find it extraordinary that Feller medical kept this slot free in January and paid the staff for a blank slot. I was encouraged to put a deposit down early as slots were flying out so the slot was surely filled and i just dont buy Feller medical is out of pocket on this.

 

I can see there is a big disconnect between what Dr Feller understands of this case and my discussions with Spex. The reason of this time lag is i was continually saving for the cost of the procedure and trying to get the rest of the finance from the banks. It just wasn't possible for me to get the finance in this time. I constantly kept in touch with Spex and kept him fully informed of this every few months.

 

My big mistake here clearly was leaving the deposit with Feller medical in good faith and not asking for it back straight away. Since i have come off finasteride due to severe side effects last year my loss has severely progressed and i have buzzed my hair down and feel i am no longer a suitable candidate for FUE. This along with extra financial constraints means i cannot proceed. If this is not extenuating circumstances i dont know what they would class them as.

 

I called Spex and Feller medical to fully explain and that i would put the procedure on hold while i wait to reapply for the finance. Since 2009 i have been building up the finance to pay for a HT which is why i didnt at any stage request it back from Feller medical. Spex was fully aware of this although judging from Dr Fellers comments , this wasnt passed on.

-

In any event i can see we are at an impasse. I will pursue this matter through a small claims court. I may not get anything back but that's not bothering me that much. For me its not so much the money as the principle involved here.

 

I have made my point and i sincerely hope this helps others out to be more prudent than i was and not get caught out should their circumstances change. I would also like to think it may make Feller medical in to being more upfront regarding their non refundable deposit status to prospective patients to avoid a repeat of this situation.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Bobilero

[Bobilero]

I will also add i have been trying to get an answer from Feller medical re the deposit return since the start of this year so that will explain some of the time lag also.

 

It also is not 4 years. The deposit was put in late 2008 and ive been trying to get it back since early this year.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Bobilero

[Gandolf]

Bobilero,

 

Thanks for sharing your story here as I do think it's helpful for us to see how these clinics handle things that don't go smoothly. While your situation is too multi-faceted for me to pick a clear side, I will say that my opinion of Feller medical has been reduced not due to the refusal to refund the money, but due to the way they handled this here in their postings. And I agree with you that they didn't take a loss on this case if you cancelled your January 2009 date in September 2008. That, unfortunately, was a flat-out untrue statement on their end in my humble opinion. I'm sorry things didn't work out the way you wanted with all of this but all of the postings here, happy and sad, go into the collective knowledge base which helps people make their best informed decisions which is what makes this forum so great.

[headbangerguy]

When I wired my money to my doctor, there was an expressed, written email attachment included in payment instruction from the clinic that:

 

1) I understand in order to book a surgery I must make a $xxxx deposit (half non refundable)

 

2) ....

 

3) Cancellation policy: Deposit will be refunded with at least 30 days notice.

 

----

I think this is what Bobilero's beef is all about. There's no such expressed legalese on his communication with the clinic.

Edited June 7, 2012 by headbangerguy
added instruction

[dingdong12]

exactly gandolph and head banger

 

why not make things extremely transparent that the deposit will be not refundable at time of exchanging money, this is ethical and good practice.

 

there may be more to this case but feller medical put a very abrupt end to this topic by refusing to read another post , that may have something to do with small claims proceedings .

[Bobilero]

When I wired my money to my doctor, there was an expressed, written email attachment included in payment instruction from the clinic that:

 

1) I understand in order to book a surgery I must make a $xxxx deposit (half non refundable)

 

2) ....

 

3) Cancellation policy: Deposit will be refunded with at least 30 days notice.

 

----

I think this is what Bobilero's beef is all about. There's no such expressed legalese on his communication with the clinic.

 

 

Precisely Headbanger. This is 100% what my beef is about.

[bonkerstonker]

Bob thanks for posting this completely pointless warning! I'm not sure what planet you're from but on the one I'm from a deposit means a non returnable sum of money to save something for a customer no matter what it is you're purchasing! Basically a deposit stops customers from messing traders about if the deposit was refundable then it wouldn't be effective would it simples!! It's just common sense you don't need a warning it's basic knowledge but it's clearly written on the website just incase some people are slightly slow in the head.

 

You admit your self you didn't cancel completely or ask for your deposit returning in September you just deferred your operation meaning you were tied into the move and as far as I can see messing feller about until you decided a ht wasn't for you which is out of order.

 

Ps I couldn't give a crap about feller I'm just being real with you.

Edited June 8, 2012 by bonkerstonker

[Bobilero]

Bob thanks for posting this completely pointless warning! I'm not sure what planet you're from but on the one I'm from a deposit means a non returnable sum of money to save something for a customer no matter what it is you're purchasing! Basically a deposit stops customers from messing traders about if the deposit was refundable then it wouldn't be effective would it simples!! It's just common sense you don't need a warning it's basic knowledge but it's clearly written on the website just incase some people are slightly slow in the head. Ps I couldn't give a crap about Feller I'm just being real with you.

 

 

Fair enough. Thats your opinion. I dont agree. Id say there are others like me too.

I happen to think there is code of conduct in business where you should be obliged to inform the client that a deposit in non refundable prior to them paying it in writing. Otherwise where would we be ? You would have a chaotic market place if we all just relied on assumptions and nothing was in writing or verbally relayed to the client.

 

Are you saying for every deposit put down in all manner of business it is 100% non refundable.? I think you'll find you are mistaken.

 

AS for messing Feller about and being out of order. Thats just a silly ill informed comment. Re read my story and you will find the reasons why i could not proceed.

Edited June 8, 2012 by Bobilero

[KiwiGuy500]

haha bonker, always straight to the point, I love it! Give that man a cigar!