KiwiGuy500

haha bonker, always straight to the point, I love it! Give that man a cigar!

oooops sorry benny, I should say, that's a great start....and the research, yep you're getting it...

H&W Rahal Armani Feller Shapiro Path from Thailand for bang for buck There's your high percentage list....go with anyone else, and who knows.

haha, tom139 signed up YESTERDAY and was straight to the defense of Dr Martinick. Here we go again fellas!

Its true Dream big, you can take the chance for a holiday if you got the coin. I did and I probably will next time too, may as well. But for some it just comes down to having enough to get the basic procedure and younger dudes with hair loss have to try and put the desperation aside and somehow make the best long term decision, and we both know that is a very tough task.

The above is great advice from these guys. Unless family can help, then often someone under 30 can struggle to afford a HT and ends up with the dodgy surgeons hoping it will all be okay. These guys have often ignored the cautionary advice of others too. Then, if the result is bad it can be even harder to get it fixed because you MUST then be repaired up by someone who knows what they are doing with tons of experience. This is slower in every respect (you've already wasted 1-5 years, can only handle smaller procedures so can take years to get things done, higher costs due to small procedures and more logistics/travel, grows slower, lower growth survival), and results are then never as good as just going to the best in the first place. I had my first at 23 and more at 24, NZ doctor, followed by attempt at repair twice by an Australian Dr, with poor results....this then affected my career options. It took until 36, (starting my own company to work fro myself and post paying off an apartment and finding security) before I could afford to be repaired, and I'm 2 surgeries into 3/4 repair procedures! I'm just right now trying to find the next bundle of cash for the next one late this year, trust me you don't need the nightmare. Hence Benny, Jollyfolly is right to say your are lucky. In Australia, just about the best you can get out of the medical review process is your money back cause if your results suck then that's what the surgeon will offer this to you to make you go away and everyone takes it. But, even that's hard to get because most surgery from Australia looks semi-okay, not real or cool, but it sits up there on your head so you technically aren't bald anymore. But it doesn't do you any favours in the social department and I for one think being bald is a better option that whats on offer in Australia. Yes Trico closure came from an Aussie, and FUE/BHT advancements for those without any donor came from Aussie, but after that, there's not even one surgeon trying to recreate the high standards being achieved by the top 10 clinics in the world. I believe this will change, but, not for a while, (what a massive business opportunity there is for a doctor who want's to put in the hard yards). Lastly Ben, I'm one of those ones who think you are too young. Consider the meds as an option. Plus the nizoral, msm, vitamins. Do the research and wait until 25 at least. Rodg has gone the more cost effective route and he's a proponent of this, often giving other guys something to think about with the cost effective options he's taken himself. If you want Hasson, Wong, Rahal or Feller, you're gonna need to bide.

Benny Boy, Look mate, please let us save you all the hassle here, I back up dreambig all the way with his assessment of the top few and the bad eggs. Yep the Aussie surgeons seem to talk a great game right, and afterall, why would a fairly industrialised modern country NOT have a kick ass HT master, why why why? Australia has just about everything else after all. Well we all wonder. I'm a kiwi and had the old style plugs year ago. Then I tried an australian, supposedly the BEST (according to him of course) and it looked even worse. How do you get it look worse than plugs? They're insured the hilt, the whole lot of them, and thats for a reason. He's a butcher and his work just doesnt stack. The answer to your question could be: A) its purely a financial decision and there's more to be made by doing things in the 1990's style work, B) They're lazy old dogs who've done their dash, C) the ones who do it just aren't that talented (and yes a great HT takes REAL TALENT!), D) All of the above. So, to keep with the multi-choice theme..... You can A) take our word for it, B) Go ahead and risk it all on someone with a less than stellar reputation C) Do alot more research D) Not get a transplant (better than option B by the way) The basis upon which people have arrived at the conclusion is that our collective experience and trust of each other has helped us identify those doctors doing both the very best and the very worst work. The old hacks have seen it, done it, heard about it. We have no interest in putting you wrong and the vast majority of us are not involved in the industry making money. So please, if you're gonna do it, consider meds, do your research, and be prepared to travel. Your bonus is, Perth is closer to the world than the rest of the antipodeans!!

Carthago, its great you've hit 'sanity point' with hair loss. Took me ten years longer than you. Well done and now you can apply that perspective to making the best decision for you. Aaron, couldn't agree more about finasteride and evaluating. But after the wait of a year or more, if the prospect desires frontal restoration plus some 'evening out' through the scalp, the only way is a small procedure. Granted he likes a mature look but finasteride wont re-create a better line and his issues about frontal uneveness seem quite valid to me. Just my thoughts.

Love your writing style Dutch! Ive been the Dr Wong patient there an hour before the Dr Hasson patient - first thing in the morning....weird things going thru my head wondering whats about to happen! Lorenzo brother, only you Italians would do that!!

Hope the rays don't penetrate his brain and make him crazy

Although the before pics don't show the very worst old transplant look, the after pics are top shelf. 2000 grafts? They've been made to look like 3500 were added. Extremely natural effect the patient must be proud of.

I agree this patient had a 'fair' result for the old method. Only in the hands of someone very very skilled, could plugs look 'okay'. I received kindof 'okay' looking plug surgery in the late 90's early 2000's (in repair now tho). But it wasn't until the popularity of the internet that I saw what had been done to others with this technique to destroy many lives. Great to see Dr Simmons being so thoughtful in the improvement of a patients life, really working with the patient technically, aesthetically, and personally. Grey hair obviously gives more variation and tricks the eye but clearly 600 plugs have made an excellent improvement in this case. Its a shame people still think of modern HT's as plug surgery.

Well, several people all telling you to go visit the same guy, sounds like a no-brainer to me. I would thought one of these 'senior' posters would have backed me up on the stabilization stuff, but go see Rahal, he'll back me up cause it'll be one of his first questions.

Are you kidding, you live pretty close to Dr Rahal considered 'King of Hairlines' by his fans. And is many guys top 5 clinics. You would have have to consider him. Dr Rahal also comes in at very fair rates so is going to be closest to your budget. Hasson and and Wong are in Vancouver and are high on most lists, pretty darn good at what they do. Canadians are so spoiled for choice! If you go to the states you'll generally pay more per graft, although there are 4-5 clinics who have earned excellent reputations. But you don't need to endure such a trip with what's in your 'backyard'. Before you think about a transplant though, you should consider doing all you can to stabilize the loss!!!!! How long did you stay with finasteride/propecia? It can take a few months or even longer to do its work. Unless you were one of the few to experience side effects you need to consider this may still have something to offer you. Are you using Nizoral or similar once or twice a week? It is a pretty stock standard treatment shampoo to mix in with your regular shampoo routine. I would give the lasercomb a miss, I'm not saying laser can't work wonders in a few cases, its just that you need 50 diodes plus and that costs alot to use. Many don't respond to laser anyway, but lasercomb as a form of laser is like expecting 1 slice of pizza to feed a village. It's your lowest percent bang for buck return for sure and its a pain in the proverbial. And you won't find many touting the laser comb whether it has FDA or not!! Rogaine foam seems to be on a lot of peoples treatment lists, and deserves its FDA approved status. The above treatments are FDA approved, but don't expect to try them for a month or two and see results - it will take time, perhaps a long time. Propecia works for most but it really takes a while. Transplants are best in combination with hairloss stabilization cause its unlikely most of us will have enough donor to cover what we would naturally lose. So please consider discovering the combination that works for you. Outside of these are the slightly less popular things such as certain suppliments, MSM, and these too have their guys that swear by them. Lastly, you are young, not so young that you wouldn't consider a transplant, but young where you still may be better waiting. So the treatment stuff could be the best direction in the long run. No it won't save your social status, (I know you don't want to be the thinning / bald guy), but it still may be the best outcome for you.

Maherel, I very much back you up on this opinion. And I not know why some people think their view must be accepted at the truth simply because they are being the most aggressive and 'vocal'. At times we all must agree to disagree. This becomes hard when the original themes are forgotten and suddenly it becomes more about someone feeling their need to the one who is correct and moral (blah blah blah!). This is not to say there is no place for watch dogs, but they too need to consider how far to berate others with their opinion. Shampoo, I too see stvobadia in a no win and there was no attempt to 'go public'. I've seen that before too but this was not one of those situations IMHO. And, as has been said, the stvobadia's post was relevant to the thread!!! Stvobadia, I hope you continue to be with us on this forum and lots of us back you up and wish you well.

Cheers for support Shampoo Bonker, mate we're probably in the same cheer squad, but seems like the consensus is it stvobadia was well within acceptable limits, and I wish him all the best in finding his solution. H & W are good at making people happy no matter what the circumstances, we know that, and that was one of my main points. H & W don't leave patients high & dry - there is a process at the clinic and communication is a key component at their practice. And, if I may generalize, the entire coalition has a good name on such principals. If I sound like a cheer squad for the whole damn lot of them, its because every day, someone, somewhere has something done to them by a 3rd rate surgeon that is, if not horrific, then not very good either. Information, debate, the coalition, patient groups, etc are the way we got to where we are now. It's an attempt to get away from the grip of 'pure marketers' with terrible product behind it. The initial posters question been answered thoroughly, done through healthy debate, which we are allowed. Personally I appreciate a lot of the coalition doctors just based on the viewpoints of members who's opinions I value and trust, yours included bonk. To state my point again, a forum is a forum, and the fact that people express sentiments generally positive, but sometimes not, is testimony that this forum is not 'One Way Marketing' and has credibility for allowing it. When things go outside the bounds of good taste or just pure nastiness by some, (for whatever motivation), the moderators step in very quickly.

Agreed England, I don't believe stvobadia did anything wrong at all. I think the moderators run the forum quite well because if they don't take such an approach we all know forums get destroyed because people can never behave. There's always going to be commercial lines drawn first. We still have a voice and patients and prospective ones get the opportunity to share what's happening in the world of hair restoration. There's definitely been some harsh criticism of coalition doctors and if there hadn't, this forum and website would have zero credibility.

Have their been negative H & W comments or results? Of course. As someone said no one bats 1000 - (yet H & W bat very 900's I think). Lets be straight, there have been a small handful of guys on here with issues, and this is known. But this is from many 1000's of surgeries. I steadfastly believe some of those patients would have been unhappy no matter who did them and what they got. No one has every gone to another surgeon that I am aware of for a H & W repair because they were a mess. Its usually that H & W is where many go when some surgeon made us a mess, such as my own case - on that long flight to Vancouver too see if someone can give you your life back. H & W have been leaders for so long so they ALWAYS come under the most scrutiny. Also our physiological / anatomical characteristics play a vital role in outcomes. And obviously if have read widely, you know H & W take on an array of cases other surgeons turn away, and give these guys that aforementioned new life. I have read a few times on this forum of H & W 'under promising and over delivering'. To the guys hassling stvobadia, seriously are you guys for real?? He gave a really valid viewpoint, he's working with H & W, he is a really realistic guy with his outlook not a moron complaining he's a N6!! Why don't you read what he wrote properly and percieve the manner in which it was intended? Here is a problem with all patient / surgeon liaisons, communications do break down. Patients views can, at times, not be given enough standing and doctors will at times, unknowingly, slightly marginalize patient wishes - and this is from even the best surgeons. Sometimes this could be construed as pig headed by surgeons, but at times its for patients own good, its such a fine fine line they gotta walk. Surgeons are never dealing with perfect scenarios and perhaps more patients should be rejected by surgeons who can say. Stvobadia, 1 year is the benchmark, at 12 months, in the majority of cases you get 90%+ of what you are gonna get, but if Doctors told everyone 18 months it would be too hard for many patients to take. Eighteen months in my reading has never been touted as the benchmark but rather a likely 'final' result, and some say it can take 2 years. Yes we know thickening occurs after 12 months but that does not make another time the bench mark. We are talking heuristic understanding here but not absolutes. I had a just a light pass on my crown in 2010, took 16 months to grow in. At 12 months I hadn't seen much, at 16 months I could see it, but I don't think that makes 16 months the bench mark either. Stvobadia, obviously perhaps you don't know exactly how much donor you have left bit another 3000 grafts would probably make you look like a different guy. Forgetting artistry for a moment, there are always critical mathematical points with hair restoration where results go from looking not too bad to amazing. Lastly, with all these 'top clinics' from time to time we see patients unhappy with results. The hair transplantation industry is like just about every other, so we learn to judge surgeons not just by when things go well, but when they go badly - and how that company reacts to the situation. All the 'top' clinics are the BEST responders to such situations. It's not a case of sweeping under the carpet, but coming up with the most viable solution.

Thank you Dr Charles, very honored you took time to answer my question even though I am not your patient. Regards Kiwiguy500

BB, 100% agree with hairthere. I've been so mad about the hair I (uncharacteristically ), punched a hole in the wall, we all been there. So to use a bit of anecdotal: I came off finasteride due to be being concerned by side effects, but not actually experiencing any. At this time Merck were getting rich off me as I was taking propecia and generics were not available. Coming off meds turned out to be a really bad move. After some 18 months off it I got got super whispy up top. To quote a well known poster I was 'heading straight into baldsville', hell I was gunning for mayor! Anyway, at that time I realised I really did not want to be the mayor of baldsville and decided the meds risks were outweighed by what was for me, known benefits. As I was messed by previous doctors in late 90's and round 2000, I knew it was going to look really awful, (plug scars aint pretty). So going back on finasteride absolutely thickened up my hair the second time round as well. It took 6 months of being regular but it happened, combination with 1% or 2% Nizoral a must. I then went in for surgery 1 year after that first 6 months. Despite the fact that my situation was really grim after the 18 months off finasteride, going back on meant that for me surgery had a point, if it didn't work, or I was off it, there would have been none. But you know mate I had to be patient and that is the tough bit. The last point to explain is this, that if you are stabilized, then there are a few select drs out there who are MASTERS at creating a head of hair you can enjoy, they operate on like you are a friend, thats how much respect some of them will treat you with. Yes they charge you but when it comes to the surgery side they're humanitarians too. Find the right guy and he wont sell you down the river. Failing all else, ACELL transplant technology has potential, it could mean a guy like you can have access to more donor supply than ever previously thought. You have the virgin scalp, stay that way until you know ultimately what you want to do. Do not risk it on a dodgy dr cause your case has zero potential for a false move needing repair, it would need to be right first time.

Perhaps someone else knows where to get this off a reliable source online. But if you do go through the standard channel (of doctor consultation) then the cheapest way of getting finasteride is by getting proscar or a generic proscar. You can cut this up with a pill cutter and take a quarter tablet per day. Forget propecia its expensive and just 1mg of finasteride. As an idea find a doctor that will let you get prescription re-issues rather than visit every time you want it. Most Drs will prescribe 30 tablets at once which is 120 days supply. This will be ultra cheap if you use a generic of proscar. You can fax prescriptions to some places too if your local drug store is a rip off. After being on proscar 2 years I talked my doctor into giving me 90 tablets which lasts me 360 days. Converting from my own currency I can get 30 tabs of generic proscar for about $28US (and I just saw a new generic that just came out for $11US which is over the counter!). Actual proscar costs me $80US but sure costs vary all over the world. I think someone on here said that a lot of those tiny hairs sitting there may revive, it happened for me and others I know, I hope you are a good responder. While finasteride can be quoted as taking a while to start 'working' I think after 6-8 weeks its already doing a great job working for you...only time would tell but online anecdotal may give you some more idea.

Yes Badger you're research is miles off. And this is not a forum where you are going to be able to teach anybody anything, its the other way round mate. For example, after years of being on finasteride I went off it for 18 months. It took me 6+ months to notice any difference. Results vary with coming off finsateride, but you have zero practicle experience of your own and your research skills leave something to be desired. Don't bother with naything in life if its all too much of a pain to do. We exist on this forum to tell you what IS possible, but you don't want any genuine advice that's become clear to me.

Badger there are plenty of success stories of finasteride / propecia (et al). The course being recommended to you of 12-18 months on these meds is one that is well tested, the side effects are low percentage but they exist. If your loss can be stabilized then something is possible with HT. So if you want to try meds or some other plan, you can always throw yourself open to another assessment in the future. There are really experienced guys on here who will give you real solid advice. You can understand those on here advising not to consider HT though because of your reluctance to consider a plan. And the only doctor who would operate on you at this stage would be probably the worst of the worst. I don't think its too bold for me to say no coalition Dr would do a procedure do it unless you committed to taking meds, re-stabilized and possibly regrown. And these would be the absolute best dr's you would want, if you were ever in a position of getting a HT. Don't give up hope just yet, just consider the advice and continue to educate yourself best you can.

Post surgery overall healing is going okay. But at the center front of the hairline I have an ingrown hair which I can see growing beneath the skin and along. Its growing upwards on a bit of an angle - as opposed to pointing forwards, which it should be. I could view it a few weeks ago but it was tiny and I figured it would poke through. Current length is about 4mm. It does not point appear it is going to do poke through but perhaps I am being dramatic. At this stage there is no apparent infection of any kind. Despite being a vet of HT's I am not aware of having had one of these before and certainly not near the hairline. I do not live anywhere near a hair transplant surgeon so I am looking for advice about whether I wait or whether i present to my GP. Thanks in advance:confused:

I was best man at a friends wedding at about 22 and I had experienced some hair loss. Sitting around the living room of the soon-to-be-married-couples apartment, a friend of the bride said to me, in front of a group 'you know you're losing hair but you're still going to look good' (or words to that effect). :eek: She was about 27, older than me and chubby. I know that it wasn't intended to be nasty, but it shows you the ignorance people have. I was pretty embarrassed but I ignored it. I could have pointed out the fact she was a bit of a fatty but I chose to just take it, (It was the first time my issues had been raised as a topic in a group, but not the last!). Oddly she was surprised when I refused her advances and 'romanced' her friend after the wedding reception. Overall though I found a woman will rarely mention it, its other guys who will give you hassles about it, and I think its a fear of baldness itself. There are of course vindictive types who will be quite cruel but thankfully these people are few and far between.