Regular Member sunsurfhair Posted February 27, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted February 27, 2023 On 2/15/2023 at 7:42 AM, arthurSam said: Yes it is very too bad the side effects sometimes appears many month or years after starting medication, even at very low dosage. I hope too that there will be new medication wich will no goes systemic soon... Hoping on Pyri ! Where are you getting Pyri? Also is anyone on TRT and using topcial dutasteride successfully? Are you guys putting topical Dut on hairline/transplanted areas or just thinning native areas? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member arthurSam Posted February 28, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted February 28, 2023 18 hours ago, sunsurfhair said: Where are you getting Pyri? Also is anyone on TRT and using topcial dutasteride successfully? Are you guys putting topical Dut on hairline/transplanted areas or just thinning native areas? I don't use pyti I am waiting for final phase 3 results 1 Minoxidil : 5% topical 1ml/day Follicular androgen receptor inhibitor : {Fluridil + CosmeRNA} Exosome Mesotherapy 1mm (See here for explanations & results) : ASCE+ HRLV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0entgen Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 So I am trying to make sense on why so many people feel topical dutasteride will be more effective and have less side effects, but I cannot seem to understand it from a scientific standpoint. I am hoping someone can explain. So the thought behind the reason topical dutasteride will have less side effects is due to its high molecular weight (greater than 500 g/mol). So according to the 500 Dalton rule (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10839713/),dutasteride will not penetrate the corneal layer, which is the outer layer of the epidermis. This part makes sense as to why topical dutasteride won’t go systemic. The part I don’t understand is how does this make topical dutasteride effective when the hair follicle is in the dermal papilla layer (which is in the dermis—the layer deeper and under the epidermis)? If it cannot penetrate beyond the corneal layer, how is it able to have its effect on the follicle? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BurnieBurns Posted March 17, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted March 17, 2023 4 hours ago, r0entgen said: So I am trying to make sense on why so many people feel topical dutasteride will be more effective and have less side effects, but I cannot seem to understand it from a scientific standpoint. I am hoping someone can explain. So the thought behind the reason topical dutasteride will have less side effects is due to its high molecular weight (greater than 500 g/mol). So according to the 500 Dalton rule (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10839713/),dutasteride will not penetrate the corneal layer, which is the outer layer of the epidermis. This part makes sense as to why topical dutasteride won’t go systemic. The part I don’t understand is how does this make topical dutasteride effective when the hair follicle is in the dermal papilla layer (which is in the dermis—the layer deeper and under the epidermis)? If it cannot penetrate beyond the corneal layer, how is it able to have its effect on the follicle? The 500 Dalton Rule is NOT absolute. Conventional topical dutasteride WILL go systemic to a small degree (albeit less than finasteride). I along with many others have still had side effects from this. For context Ketoconazole is 531.431 Daltons and is applied topically all the time. Formulations like Xyon or Farmacia Parati are designed to enhance the penetration to the dermis level over a timed release and get stuck there resulting in incredibly low amount going systemic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Mat16 Posted March 17, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted March 17, 2023 Hey guys, I just received a bottle of topical dut 0.5% from farmacia parati. Any advice on how to apply it? And how often to apply it? I was thinking about applying 1ML just once per week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valued Contributor Gatsby Posted March 17, 2023 Valued Contributor Share Posted March 17, 2023 DM sent to you @Mat16 GATSBY 'UNPLUGGED!' 15,671 (3 surgeries) Grafts FUE+BHT Dr. Sethi Eugenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valued Contributor Gatsby Posted March 17, 2023 Valued Contributor Share Posted March 17, 2023 Can anyone help? How have people been able to order topical dutasteride or Finasteride overseas from Farmacia Parati? The website is in Italian and I can’t see a way of translating it to English? If anyone can give advice and any other tips I would be extremely grateful. 🙏 GATSBY 'UNPLUGGED!' 15,671 (3 surgeries) Grafts FUE+BHT Dr. Sethi Eugenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Pbaird98 Posted March 17, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted March 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, Gatsby said: Can anyone help? How have people been able to order topical dutasteride or Finasteride overseas from Farmacia Parati? The website is in Italian and I can’t see a way of translating it to English? If anyone can give advice and any other tips I would be extremely grateful. 🙏 Maybe @ITAcoild help as he’s a Italian guy…? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valued Contributor Gatsby Posted March 17, 2023 Valued Contributor Share Posted March 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Pbaird98 said: Maybe @ITAcoild help as he’s a Italian guy…? Many thanks @Pbaird98. 🙏 1 GATSBY 'UNPLUGGED!' 15,671 (3 surgeries) Grafts FUE+BHT Dr. Sethi Eugenix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0entgen Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 3 hours ago, BurnieBurns said: The 500 Dalton Rule is NOT absolute. Conventional topical dutasteride WILL go systemic to a small degree (albeit less than finasteride). I along with many others have still had side effects from this. For context Ketoconazole is 531.431 Daltons and is applied topically all the time. Formulations like Xyon or Farmacia Parati are designed to enhance the penetration to the dermis level over a timed release and get stuck there resulting in incredibly low amount going systemic. Yeah but ketoconazole is usually applied topically to treat fungal infections, which occurs superficially on the outer layer of skin (epidermis)… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted March 17, 2023 Author Administrators Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 hour ago, r0entgen said: Yeah but ketoconazole is usually applied topically to treat fungal infections, which occurs superficially on the outer layer of skin (epidermis)… But Ketoconazole also helps with hair loss, which means it does penetrate to the epidermis. I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Mat16 Posted March 17, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted March 17, 2023 5 hours ago, Mat16 said: Hey guys, I just received a bottle of topical dut 0.5% from farmacia parati. Any advice on how to apply it? And how often to apply it? I was thinking about applying 1ML just once per week. Is it safe to put in on with bare hands? How long should it stay on and should I wash it off after some time? Or when is it safe for a girl to touch my head after I have put it on. These are the things I am kinda worried about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted March 17, 2023 Author Administrators Share Posted March 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, Mat16 said: Is it safe to put in on with bare hands? How long should it stay on and should I wash it off after some time? Or when is it safe for a girl to touch my head after I have put it on. These are the things I am kinda worried about It’s safe to put on with your bare hands, it needs to stay on for a long time to penetrate. Women can touch your hair as long as they’re not pregnant or trying to conceive. I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Mat16 Posted March 17, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said: It’s safe to put on with your bare hands, it needs to stay on for a long time to penetrate. Women can touch your hair as long as they’re not pregnant or trying to conceive. Thank you very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member ITA Posted March 19, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted March 19, 2023 On 17/3/2023 at 13:04, Gatsby said: On 17/3/2023 at 13:01, Pbaird98 said: Forse@ITAaiutatemi visto che è un ragazzo italiano...? Grazie molto@ Pbayrd98. 🙏 @Gatsby, you probably solved your problem, and I'm happy about it, but at least you could have given me an answer to my PM that I sent you after you contacted me, don't you think? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member arthurSam Posted March 19, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted March 19, 2023 On 3/17/2023 at 5:04 AM, r0entgen said: So I am trying to make sense on why so many people feel topical dutasteride will be more effective and have less side effects, but I cannot seem to understand it from a scientific standpoint. I am hoping someone can explain. So the thought behind the reason topical dutasteride will have less side effects is due to its high molecular weight (greater than 500 g/mol). So according to the 500 Dalton rule (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10839713/),dutasteride will not penetrate the corneal layer, which is the outer layer of the epidermis. This part makes sense as to why topical dutasteride won’t go systemic. The part I don’t understand is how does this make topical dutasteride effective when the hair follicle is in the dermal papilla layer (which is in the dermis—the layer deeper and under the epidermis)? If it cannot penetrate beyond the corneal layer, how is it able to have its effect on the follicle? I think it is because of that problem that all the research paper I saw about using topical dutasteride are used with microneedle... Minoxidil : 5% topical 1ml/day Follicular androgen receptor inhibitor : {Fluridil + CosmeRNA} Exosome Mesotherapy 1mm (See here for explanations & results) : ASCE+ HRLV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member SoSoz Posted March 24, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted March 24, 2023 Why did you decide to go with topical dut and not topical fin? Is there less chance of sides with topical dut? Also will they ship this to europe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member arthurSam Posted March 24, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted March 24, 2023 Yes less decrease of dht but for me topical dut xyon give me same sides than topical fina trichosol Minoxidil : 5% topical 1ml/day Follicular androgen receptor inhibitor : {Fluridil + CosmeRNA} Exosome Mesotherapy 1mm (See here for explanations & results) : ASCE+ HRLV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member jim1973 Posted March 27, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted March 27, 2023 On 3/16/2023 at 9:04 PM, r0entgen said: So I am trying to make sense on why so many people feel topical dutasteride will be more effective and have less side effects, but I cannot seem to understand it from a scientific standpoint. I am hoping someone can explain. So the thought behind the reason topical dutasteride will have less side effects is due to its high molecular weight (greater than 500 g/mol). So according to the 500 Dalton rule (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10839713/),dutasteride will not penetrate the corneal layer, which is the outer layer of the epidermis. This part makes sense as to why topical dutasteride won’t go systemic. The part I don’t understand is how does this make topical dutasteride effective when the hair follicle is in the dermal papilla layer (which is in the dermis—the layer deeper and under the epidermis)? If it cannot penetrate beyond the corneal layer, how is it able to have its effect on the follicle? @r0entgenYour question is one I have been trying to figure out myself. I hope to see some additional responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted March 28, 2023 Author Administrators Share Posted March 28, 2023 On 3/24/2023 at 10:52 AM, SoSoz said: Why did you decide to go with topical dut and not topical fin? Is there less chance of sides with topical dut? Also will they ship this to europe? Topical dutasteride has a large molecular weight. Combine that with silicone based liposomal vehicles. It doesn’t penetrate quickly. Thus, a more controlled release. That said, many don’t report sides from topical fin either, which on average reduces 30% systemic DHT, as opposed to 60-70% from oral version. I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BurnieBurns Posted June 3, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted June 3, 2023 On 2/3/2023 at 9:20 AM, arthurSam said: I am now sure that Parati liposomal formulation is the same as Xyon. This is how Xyon gel is designed from the paper : and this is the parati formulation : So we can get Xyon gel in Europe 🙂 This is odd. I got topical dutasteride from Farmacia Parati and the ingredients on the tube are not this at all.. Might explain why I still got sides from it. If anyone's interested I could type them out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted June 3, 2023 Author Administrators Share Posted June 3, 2023 9 hours ago, BurnieBurns said: This is odd. I got topical dutasteride from Farmacia Parati and the ingredients on the tube are not this at all.. Might explain why I still got sides from it. If anyone's interested I could type them out Xyons formula is patented, so maybe they had to change it. 1 I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member arthurSam Posted June 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted June 3, 2023 9 hours ago, BurnieBurns said: This is odd. I got topical dutasteride from Farmacia Parati and the ingredients on the tube are not this at all.. Might explain why I still got sides from it. If anyone's interested I could type them out It's the same I already make a comment on this comparing the two formulations. Minoxidil : 5% topical 1ml/day Follicular androgen receptor inhibitor : {Fluridil + CosmeRNA} Exosome Mesotherapy 1mm (See here for explanations & results) : ASCE+ HRLV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BurnieBurns Posted June 3, 2023 Senior Member Share Posted June 3, 2023 22 minutes ago, arthurSam said: It's the same I already make a comment on this comparing the two formulations. Mine is completely different.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member arthurSam Posted June 3, 2023 Regular Member Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) Ah ok, well I am not a specialist but it seems there still have the silicon (PEG8) and I think Phytic Acid is for the liposomes. To be confirmed by specialists... If you read the patent, there are lot of ingredient which can be used for liposomes : Edited June 3, 2023 by arthurSam Minoxidil : 5% topical 1ml/day Follicular androgen receptor inhibitor : {Fluridil + CosmeRNA} Exosome Mesotherapy 1mm (See here for explanations & results) : ASCE+ HRLV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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