Have HT Surgeons Begun to Charge Too Much?

[trynagetaHT]

I’ve recently been looking at hair transplant prices and they seem exorbitant in the US (and even worldly across top HT clinics). Assuming a doctor works 3 weeks less than all weekdays (261), they’re working 240 days. Let’s assume they, on average, do around 10k FUE grafts a day across several patients and charge $8 a graft. 

 

This means they make close to $20 million a year. Isn’t that unreasonably high? And it doesn’t have to be this way -- countries with top tier doctors, say India or Turkey, still only charge $1-$2 a graft (bicer, Yaman, soni), leading them to make around $4 million, which is still a hefty wage. 

 

Other plastic surgery specialities in the US (i.e. top rhinoplasty doctors) make similar to $5 million before fees as well.

 

There’s obviously a lot of fees in HT especially Ie staffing, marketing, OR fees, but not enough to justify a $16 million dollar difference. I’d still imagine the HT surgeon takes home 50% of the money. Even if my ballparks are off, they shouldn't be so off to distract from my point.

 

Do you think top doctors are taking it too far? This especially applies in countries like India where cost of living is significantly cheaper, yet some doctors are charging US prices.

 

Edited April 4, 2022 by trynagetaHT
Making grammar clearer

[makehairgreatagain]

It's supply and demand. There's a reason why there's a waiting list for a lot of doctors that are a year plus out. You can't fault them for charging what they charge if they have a steady stream of clientele and produce excellent results. Medical school isn't cheap. Nor is the operating costs of their practice to staff quality techs, insurance, physical location, supplies etc. Can't fault them for going into an in-demand field and capitalizing on the opportunity.

[trynagetaHT]

Yeah, I guess my broader point was that this forum should aid in that.

I feel like the same couple of expensive names with good marketing are recommended in this forum, rather than a lot of affordable hair transplant doctors with worse advertising but similar/better results.

If I wanted to fall prey to marketing, I'd just go to instagram. But I go to this forum to find hidden gems who focus on their work first, and money and marketing afterwards (Zarev, for example).

[BDK081522]

46 minutes ago, trynagetaHT said:

I’ve recently been looking at hair transplant prices and they seem exorbitant in the US (and even worldly across top HT clinics). Assuming a doctor works 3 weeks less than all weekdays (261), they’re working 240 days. Let’s assume they, on average, do around 10k FUE grafts a day across several patients and charge $8 a graft. 

 

This means they make close to $20 million a year. Isn’t that unreasonably high? And it doesn’t have to be this way -- countries with top tier doctors, say India or Turkey, still only charge $1-$2 a graft (bicer, Yaman, soni), leading them to make around $4 million, which is still a hefty wage. 

 

Other plastic surgery specialities in the US (i.e. top rhinoplasty doctors) make similar to $5 million before fees as well.

 

There’s obviously a lot of fees in HT especially Ie staffing, marketing, OR fees, but not enough to justify a $16 million dollar difference. I’d still imagine the HT surgeon takes home 50% of the money. Even if my ballparks are off, they shouldn't be so off to distract from my point.

 

Do you think top doctors are taking it too far? This especially applies in countries like India where cost of living is significantly cheaper, yet some doctors are charging US prices.

 

Most top clinics aren't operating on 3 patients per day. Nor are they transplanting 10,000 FUE grafts per day. Nor do they operate every day. There's clinic time, follow up appointments and and a great deal that goes into a successful private surgical practice. You've simplified this scenario way too much to be useful. And as previously mentioned, it's supply vs demand. If you're highly skilled the demand will be there. I actually think most hair restoration surgeons are underpiced. Compare it to the auto industry. You wouldn't think twice about getting a brand new car for $30,000. That's a very cheap car that will get you 10-15 years of use if maintained well. Hair restoration is a lifelong change that impacts your image and should be given the respect it deserves. 

[trynagetaHT]

I suppose, but personally, when I can have access to a top quality doctor for $1.50 a graft, I personally wouldn't choose to pay $8 a graft for a marginal improvement, unless I had a Dr. like Zarev who does all the work himself, 3 hour long consultations, and two-three patients a week. I have other things I need to use that money for. To each his own, I suppose.

Edited April 5, 2022 by trynagetaHT

[asterix0]

Just now, trynagetaHT said:

I suppose, but personally, when I can have access to a top quality doctor for $1.50 a graft, I personally wouldn't choose to pay $8 a graft for a marginal improvement. I have other things I need to use that money for. To each his own, I suppose.

Who is this top quality doctor for $1.50 per graft?

Ultimately this is a complicated topic, the industry is a global one where anyone can travel from any country with much greater purchasing power and income, where the costs might be inexpensive to that person compared to someone local.

It is hard to find a comparable industry. If you could buy a Toyota for $10k that was just as good as a BMW that cost $50k, well probably the BMW dealers would have to lower the price to stay competitive. But fortunately there is enough demand for both BMWs and Toyotas so that they can leave the prices as is.

Ultimately though, there is a very small number of elite doctors compared to the number of balding guys who want transplants...so be glad that prices are not much higher actually. 

[trynagetaHT]

5 minutes ago, asterix0 said:

Who is this top quality doctor for $1.50 per graft?

Ultimately this is a complicated topic, the industry is a global one where anyone can travel from any country with much greater purchasing power and income, where the costs might be inexpensive to that person compared to someone local.

It is hard to find a comparable industry. If you could buy a Toyota for $10k that was just as good as a BMW that cost $50k, well probably the BMW dealers would have to lower the price to stay competitive. But fortunately there is enough demand for both BMWs and Toyotas so that they can leave the prices as is.

Ultimately though, there is a very small number of elite doctors compared to the number of balding guys who want transplants...so be glad that prices are not much higher actually. 

Soni, Bicer (maybe), Pittella, Barghouthi, Yaman, etc. They're doctors who are rightfully brought up on this forum, but just not talked about as much b/c of lack of marketing and size (i.e. Eugenix, Hasson and Wong, etc)

[asterix0]

4 minutes ago, trynagetaHT said:

Soni, Bicer (maybe), Pittella, Barghouthi, Yaman, etc. They're doctors who are rightfully brought up on this forum, but just not talked about as much b/c of lack of marketing and size (i.e. Eugenix, Hasson and Wong, etc)

Yes, depending on your scale of baldness many of those can get you a great result. 

It is only if you are going to Norwood 6/7 with a questionable donor, maybe they won't suit your needs best.

Then, Dr. Pitella, Dr. De Freitas, Dr. Konior, Dr. Cuoto, Dr. Zarev, Dr. Sethi at Eugenix may be your best bet. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by asterix0

[kirkland]

56 minutes ago, trynagetaHT said:

I feel like the same couple of expensive names with good marketing are recommended in this forum, rather than a lot of affordable hair transplant doctors with worse advertising but similar/better results.

There are some great and affordable HT docs across the world but you have to spend time researching and not just relying on a single source like this site. This site is a good starting point, imo, as it provides guys with a standard of what is achievable in a HT and how it can be done safely and ethically. Thus, the big names you often see on here should be considered benchmarks for what you should look for in your research. 

 

1 hour ago, trynagetaHT said:

But I go to this forum to find hidden gems who focus on their work first, and money and marketing afterwards (Zarev, for example).

If your original concern is that HT surgeons charge too much, then I don't think using Dr. Zarev as an example of a hidden gem will help with your argument. Zarev charges around $30-40k US per surgery, I believe. 

[kirkland]

41 minutes ago, trynagetaHT said:

Soni,

Dr. Soni is a good example of a skilled and experienced surgeon with reasonable prices. I don't know Dr. Bhatti's prices but he may be another one. 

[MachoVato]

46 minutes ago, kirkland said:

If your original concern is that HT surgeons charge too much, then I don't think using Dr. Zarev as an example of a hidden gem will help with your argument. Zarev charges around $30-40k US per surgery, I believe. 

Zarev charges €4/graft

[Gatsby]

Personally I think most of the clinics in Turkey charge way too much. Because the damage that is often left that we see here on a weekly and often daily routine costs not only many thousands more to try and repair, but the emotional and psychological cost can't be costed in dollars. Having said that, looking at the results I believe Dr Bicer actually is charging too less. At the end of the day as Warren Buffett would say the market never lies. Something is only worth what someone is prepared to pay. This is also true of the entire cosmetic industry.

[Future Hair Doc]

3 hours ago, trynagetaHT said:

I’ve recently been looking at hair transplant prices and they seem exorbitant in the US (and even worldly across top HT clinics). Assuming a doctor works 3 weeks less than all weekdays (261), they’re working 240 days. Let’s assume they, on average, do around 10k FUE grafts a day across several patients and charge $8 a graft. 

 

This means they make close to $20 million a year. Isn’t that unreasonably high? And it doesn’t have to be this way -- countries with top tier doctors, say India or Turkey, still only charge $1-$2 a graft (bicer, Yaman, soni), leading them to make around $4 million, which is still a hefty wage. 

 

Other plastic surgery specialities in the US (i.e. top rhinoplasty doctors) make similar to $5 million before fees as well.

 

There’s obviously a lot of fees in HT especially Ie staffing, marketing, OR fees, but not enough to justify a $16 million dollar difference. I’d still imagine the HT surgeon takes home 50% of the money. Even if my ballparks are off, they shouldn't be so off to distract from my point.

 

Do you think top doctors are taking it too far? This especially applies in countries like India where cost of living is significantly cheaper, yet some doctors are charging US prices.

 

Your numbers are WAY off (by a factor of 10). Overhead costs are also a LOT higher in Western countries. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Dr. Suhail Khokhar

[civic]

Same can be said about Tattoo artists, good ones have few years wait time & charge over $350 an hour, probably even more now.

Edited April 5, 2022 by civic

[Gatsby]

1 hour ago, Dr. Suhail Khokhar said:

Your numbers are WAY off (by a factor of 10). Overhead costs are also a LOT higher in Western countries. 

This ^

[JoeMan]

My surgeon (Dr. Ferreira) was 3€ a graft. Works 4 days a week Tue-Fri. About 1500 grafts a day. I'd bet most take quite a few vacations as well. Do they make good money, absolutely! But for 1.5€, find me a Dr that is exceptional. They'd be booked for 2-3 years. You get what you pay for in most things in life and a HT are no exception. Sure, some Dr's are a better value of course. 

Very few world class Dr's exist and they are all booked a year plus. Most are raising prices right now because they can. Supply/Demand. 

I think your numbers are way off as well since most quality Dr's don't see so many per day. 

Edited April 5, 2022 by JoeMan

[TommyLucchese]

I remember Dr Feller telling me how long his staff members had been with him.....8, 10, 12, 15+ years. He said they are very well paid so that they stick around, because it takes so long for them to learn and get the experience to deliver top class results.

You can't afford a high employee turnover rate in this industry. 

So we as customers are paying for the cost of the employee as well as for the skill and reputation of the doctor. 

 

[mafpe]

everything medical in US cost an arm and a leg so im not really surprised... it is high, but you can calculate with a conservative amount, say around 3000 graft a day, if you count it like that the number deflate a lot. also like others have said, there are :

1. cost, keeping a clinic need certification, license, then you need to make sure your equipment/disposables are in great condition.
    in average, living cost in america is around three times more expensive compared to turkey, so it costing more than 3x other countries is normal, as america is infamous for      having a stupidly high medical cost compared to other countries.

2. a hair transplant is a 'cosmetic' procedure, not a medical one as it doesn't affect your bodily health, so not everyone will go for it, thus only those who can afford it will.

9 hours ago, trynagetaHT said:

Do you think top doctors are taking it too far? This especially applies in countries like India where cost of living is significantly cheaper, yet some doctors are charging US prices.

3. top rating jobs on everything always cost way way more than the decent or great one, the increase isn't linear, its exponential, the top 1% can easily double the fee or even      5x of those in the top 5%, many people are willing to fork out astronomical sum to get the 'best', and that is their clientele. These places don't have a shortage of people          coming globally, so they can afford to price them high

i do wish HT is more affordable though. It's not necessary, medically speaking. But it would help a dang lot in the mental / confidence department.

[RTC]

I think most people are going to get priced out of HT's soon.. with the way the globalists are printing money and destroying supply chains, the cost of living is sky rocketing in every way and HT clinics will be forced to increase prices.

 

Just hope I can fix my botch job before then 

[NARMAK]

It's unfortunately a market that has high demand and low supply for quality doctors and clinics. As such, you end up having to pay more but if you are smart about it, you could potentially travel overseas to some reputable clinics and save thousands if that clinic is appropriate for your hair restoration objectives. 

That said, it's an elective procedure and just like any other person, doctors will always seek to make the maximum amount of money they can over their lifetime. Whilst that might mean some people feel left in the cold and turn to hair mills, ultimately it won't change the fact that enough people are willing to pay them. 

It's causing a huge ticking time bomb imo and until somehow we get a better balance of supply of quality clinics or similar, then the status quo won't change. 

[deeznuts]

12 hours ago, BDK081522 said:

Most top clinics aren't operating on 3 patients per day. Nor are they transplanting 10,000 FUE grafts per day. Nor do they operate every day. There's clinic time, follow up appointments and and a great deal that goes into a successful private surgical practice. You've simplified this scenario way too much to be useful. And as previously mentioned, it's supply vs demand. If you're highly skilled the demand will be there. I actually think most hair restoration surgeons are underpiced. Compare it to the auto industry. You wouldn't think twice about getting a brand new car for $30,000. That's a very cheap car that will get you 10-15 years of use if maintained well. Hair restoration is a lifelong change that impacts your image and should be given the respect it deserves. 

Yeah I agree. Most clinics probably max out at like 4k-5k grafts a day by my guess.

Also to add on, overhead is expensive. You're probably going to have a team of techs, advertising/marketing/sales as well as just regular staff (janitors, receptionist, etc). Hasson & Wong for example have probably a dozen employees alone in their surgical team (based on their website). https://hassonandwong.com/surgical-team/ . Rent is also a thing. 

I'm not sure if I'll argue a hair restoration surgeon is underpriced, but I'll definitely argue that the top of any skilled profession is probably going to make bank. 

[Britanium]

11 hours ago, kirkland said:

Dr. Soni is a good example of a skilled and experienced surgeon with reasonable prices. I don't know Dr. Bhatti's prices but he may be another one. 

Dr Soni yes, Dr B I would say no, it’s more of a hair mill model these days with questionable results. Standards were already slipping before he was removed from recommendation a couple of years ago. 

[trynagetaHT]

12 hours ago, kirkland said:

There are some great and affordable HT docs across the world but you have to spend time researching and not just relying on a single source like this site. This site is a good starting point, imo, as it provides guys with a standard of what is achievable in a HT and how it can be done safely and ethically. Thus, the big names you often see on here should be considered benchmarks for what you should look for in your research. 

 

If your original concern is that HT surgeons charge too much, then I don't think using Dr. Zarev as an example of a hidden gem will help with your argument. Zarev charges around $30-40k US per surgery, I believe. 

The point being that I would only pay Zarev level prices for someone who invests that much time into me. I've heard of the doctors from the big name clinics just spending under 15 minutes designing your hairline, doing incisions, and dipping to meet their next patient.

[JoeMan]

1 minute ago, trynagetaHT said:

The point being that I would only pay Zarev level prices for someone who invests that much time into me. I've heard of the doctors from the big name clinics just spending under 15 minutes designing your hairline, doing incisions, and dipping to meet their next patient.

This sounds like a hair mill you are describing. Dr. Ferreira was the only person who touched my head. A few other Dr's perform every stage of surgery as well. Plenty of other Dr's use techs to help extract or implant. What matters is results though so every Dr has their own methods. 

What big name clinics are you referring to? 

[kirkland]

20 minutes ago, trynagetaHT said:

The point being that I would only pay Zarev level prices for someone who invests that much time into me. I've heard of the doctors from the big name clinics just spending under 15 minutes designing your hairline, doing incisions, and dipping to meet their next patient.

That's fair. Everyone has to be comfortable with the choices they make at the end of the day.