Why I'm Not Taking Finasteride *My Current Hair Loss Regimen

[Melvin- Admin]

 

[RandoBrando517]

Why wouldn’t you take the topical version?

[Raymond92]

What do you think about this product? https://www.forhims.com/hair-loss/topical-finasteride

[Melvin- Admin]

7 hours ago, Raymond92 said:

What do you think about this product? https://www.forhims.com/hair-loss/topical-finasteride

Personally, I’d trust hasson and wongs formula way more.

[ciaus]

Nice video, makes the forum even better to have the moderator hunkered in the trenches with us.

Interested to hear about upcoming news on topical fin/dut from hasson/wong. I've been taking the oral finasteride for over a decade without any issues. We tend to always here about people taking either the oral or the topical, but for the majority of us taking the oral without any issues, I wonder if a smaller dose of the oral along with a topical dose would possibly give better results?

And about forgetting to take your oral minox, I always take it right before brushing my teeth. Started taking it at night so the last brushing before bed, but now its in the morning when I get up. Have the multivitamin/fin/minox all right there next to the toothbrush. 

 

 

 

[Gokuhairline]

8 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Personally, I’d trust hasson and wongs formula way more.

where do we get it ?

[EvoXOhio]

21 hours ago, Gokuhairline said:

where do we get it ?

This. I thought it was only for people they did surgery on? Or are they selling it to anyone now?

[CEML]

On 10/8/2021 at 7:39 PM, Melvin- Moderator said:

 

Thanks for this. What dose of oral minox do you take? 

[helpthisguypls]

Any ideas if they will bring a topical Dutasteride formula out soon?

[Melvin- Admin]

9 minutes ago, helpthisguypls said:

Any ideas if they will bring a topical Dutasteride formula out soon?

Not yet but stay tuned.

[helpthisguypls]

59 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Not yet but stay tuned.

Wow can’t wait... this might be the golden bullet for me

[Melvin- Admin]

10 minutes ago, helpthisguypls said:

Wow can’t wait... this might be the golden bullet for me

Yea very exciting times.

[Z--]

I guess I just don't see the point for higher Norwoods, particularly a nearly bald NW6 or someone well on their way to a NW7. 

If the only way to preserve donor is with Finn, that would imply that it'll thin out once Finn loses its efficacy, so that person would be bound to lose that hair in any case. Worse yet, I've read that it impacts body-hair, which could be used for higher Norwoods. I'm in the same boat Melvin -- I won't be taking Finn either, topical or oral. I have no interest in the risk of sides and benefits seem so marginal in my case.

[JDEE0]

21 hours ago, Z-- said:

I guess I just don't see the point for higher Norwoods, particularly a nearly bald NW6 or someone well on their way to a NW7. 

If the only way to preserve donor is with Finn, that would imply that it'll thin out once Finn loses its efficacy, so that person would be bound to lose that hair in any case. Worse yet, I've read that it impacts body-hair, which could be used for higher Norwoods. I'm in the same boat Melvin -- I won't be taking Finn either, topical or oral. I have no interest in the risk of sides and benefits seem so marginal in my case.

I do generally agree with you on some level in the broader sense that, if you barely have anything left to lose, then what's the point.

However, the difference between even a NW6 and NW7 is quite a lot, and if someone was to use up all their donor hair for a NW6 pattern and slowly evolve into a 7 over the coming decades, well then they have no real options left. And I generally think this is very much in the realm of possibility of people who are NW6-ish now in their 30's or even 40's - they may think that that's the extent of their lifetime loss as it's already so advanced, but 20 or 30+ years is a long time with a strong potential for things to change for the worse left completely unchecked. It's a bit naive in my humble opinion.

However, I personally don't think that finasteride ever 'loses efficacy' as I sometimes see people say (such as you do here) as there is no evidence to suggest this is the case. Rather, the long term issue is that it only blocks 70 percent (maximum) of DHT and leaves over (even increasing their amounts in the process) all other androgens that will cumulatively have an effect over time. It will slow the loss for everyone to a pretty good degree, for some very significantly so and for others not quite as much simply due to their genetic sensitivity and density or concentration of AR receptors in the scalp etc.

Even with this in mind though, I would argue that fin likely is able to stop donor miniaturisation pretty effectively, perhaps indefinitely, as this hair generally only miniaturises to some degree and never really 'balds' in the sense that the top of the scalp does. The hairs here very, very rarely seem to fully die off and leave completely barren areas, even if left to miniaturise for decades. As such, I think that it's probably logical to state that this area really needs much less 'protection' from androgens in the first place to stay healthy as it's clearly just nowhere near as affected by them, and I would wager as a result that using fin means that there is a decent chance that you won't be 'bound to lose the hair in any case' (as you suggest) if you do use it. It may well place someone under the androgenic threshold needed to affect the donor hair in the first place, who knows.

It's worth a shot. Even if I'm wrong, what if it helps you for decades and decades and then you only begin to start noticing the regression at that point, and it takes another few decades to fully lose it - you would at least be well into your older years at the time this happened and had very good hair for most of your life as a result.

I mean, I understand and respect rather not taking it when you see little point, just some food for thought instead of never even trying it out of fear when you're likely to be just fine and a person can always just stop if its not for them and then revert back to plan A and hope for the best if it comes to it.

Body hair effects are an interesting one, would be cool if there was some official data on this, but I'm not aware of any. I've heard lots of accounts of people saying it has affected theirs, and lots saying it hasn't. Personally, I'm moderately hairy (mostly chest) and have a very thick and full beard and have noticed no change at all to either.

Edited October 13, 2021 by JDEE0

[Melvin- Admin]

59 minutes ago, Z-- said:

I guess I just don't see the point for higher Norwoods, particularly a nearly bald NW6 or someone well on their way to a NW7. 

If the only way to preserve donor is with Finn, that would imply that it'll thin out once Finn loses its efficacy, so that person would be bound to lose that hair in any case. Worse yet, I've read that it impacts body-hair, which could be used for higher Norwoods. I'm in the same boat Melvin -- I won't be taking Finn either, topical or oral. I have no interest in the risk of sides and benefits seem so marginal in my case.

I think it’s definitely worth taking if you haven’t at least tried. Now, if I were to try as a new patient I would do a combination of topical and micro-dose of the oral. I’d do maybe 0.75 mg per week orally and topical doses every other day (EOD). If you get sides obviously stop. Sexual health>hair. 

[Curious25]

20 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Sexual health>hair. 

Totally agree. 
 

However I equally understand, that for some, hair > sexual health. 

[Z--]

36 minutes ago, JDEE0 said:

I do generally agree with you on some level in the broader sense that, if you barely have anything left to lose, then what's the point.

However, the difference between even a NW6 and NW7 is quite a lot, and if someone was to use up all their donor hair for a NW6 pattern and slowly evolve into a 7 over the coming decades, well then they have no real options left. And I generally think this is very much in the realm of possibility of people who are NW6-ish now in their 30's or even 40's - they may think that that's the extent of their lifetime loss as it's already so advanced, but 20 or 30+ years is a long time with a strong potential for things to change for the worse left completely unchecked. It's a bit naive in my humble opinion.

However, I personally don't think that finasteride ever 'loses efficacy' as I sometimes see people say (such as you do here) as there is no evidence to suggest this is the case. Rather, the long term issue is that it only blocks 70 percent (maximum) of DHT and leaves over (even increasing their amounts the process) all other androgens that will cumulatively have an effect over time. It will slow the loss for everyone to a pretty good degree, for some very significantly so and for others not quite as much simply due to their genetic sensitivity.

Even with this in mind though, I would argue that fin likely is able to stop donor miniaturisation pretty effectively, perhaps indefinitely, as this hair generally only miniaturises to some degree and never really 'balds' in the sense that the top of the scalp does. The hairs here very, very rarely seem to fully die off and leave completely barren areas, even if left to miniaturise for decades. As such, I think that it's probably logical to state that this area really needs much less 'protection' from androgens in the first place to stay healthy as it's clearly just nowhere near as affected by them, and I would wager as a result that using fin means that there is a decent chance that you won't be 'bound to lose the hair in any case' (as you suggest) if you do use it. It may well place someone under the androgenic threshold needed to affect the donor hair in the first place, who knows.

It's worth a shot. Even if I'm wrong, what if it helps you for decades and decades and then you only begin to start noticing the regression at that point, and it takes another few decades to fully lose it - you would at least be well into your older years at the time this happened and had very good hair for most of your life as a result.

I mean, I understand and respect rather not taking it when you see little point, just some food for thought instead of never even trying it out of fear when you're likely to be just fine and a person can always just stop if its not for them and then revert back to plan A and hope for the best if it comes to it.

Body hair effects are an interesting one, would be cool if there was some official data on this, but I'm not aware of any. I've heard lots of accounts of people saying it has affected theirs, and lots saying it hasn't. Personally, I'm moderately hairy (mostly chest) and have a very thick and full beard and have noticed no change at all to either.

I appreciate the thoughtful response, even if we disagree! I recognize that donor hairs can thin over time, but they are already far more likely to be DHT resistant. The dip from NW6 to NW7 should be something an ethical doctor can predict through microscopic assessment of the donor hair and looking through family history, as the top of the donor region should certainly be looked at -- and those that have already landed at NW6 likely have plenty of signs of becoming a NW7. I am of the belief that one should always keep a reserve of donor in the event of future loss, whether that be in the form of body-hair or donor in side-banks or back, which I think achieves the concern. That said, I recognize your point and that Finn may have benefit for a NW6 or even NW7, who is at risk of further donor depletion.

Life is a matter of risk and rewards, though. The thing about Finn is that it's sides are so numerous, that the benefits you've mentioned (which I think can be achieved via proper donor management and planning), have to be counterbalanced. I recognize the majority don't get sides. I'd gotten heart palpations from minox (family history of a bad heart) alone, so I think I'm the type who is likely to suffer from sides generally. The possibility of sexual libido loss (for months if not years for some), weakening of body-hair (albeit only personal accounts), gyno and more difficulty in assessing prostate cancer risks, just don't make it worth it for me. I understand if you haven't had these problems, the assessment might argue in favor of Finn and that's totally great and I'm genuinely happy for you. FWIW, I'm not against it on principle for all cases, I just don't believe the risk is worth it in my case.

Besides, being on medication for life is exhausting and isn't spoken about enough. I'd done LASIK and besides the benefits of better of vision, one of the best perks is not having to deal with contacts day-in, day-out.

[Curious25]

2 hours ago, JDEE0 said:

I do generally agree with you on some level in the broader sense that, if you barely have anything left to lose, then what's the point.

However, the difference between even a NW6 and NW7 is quite a lot, and if someone was to use up all their donor hair for a NW6 pattern and slowly evolve into a 7 over the coming decades, well then they have no real options left. And I generally think this is very much in the realm of possibility of people who are NW6-ish now in their 30's or even 40's - they may think that that's the extent of their lifetime loss as it's already so advanced, but 20 or 30+ years is a long time with a strong potential for things to change for the worse left completely unchecked. It's a bit naive in my humble opinion.

However, I personally don't think that finasteride ever 'loses efficacy' as I sometimes see people say (such as you do here) as there is no evidence to suggest this is the case. Rather, the long term issue is that it only blocks 70 percent (maximum) of DHT and leaves over (even increasing their amounts the process) all other androgens that will cumulatively have an effect over time. It will slow the loss for everyone to a pretty good degree, for some very significantly so and for others not quite as much simply due to their genetic sensitivity.

Even with this in mind though, I would argue that fin likely is able to stop donor miniaturisation pretty effectively, perhaps indefinitely, as this hair generally only miniaturises to some degree and never really 'balds' in the sense that the top of the scalp does. The hairs here very, very rarely seem to fully die off and leave completely barren areas, even if left to miniaturise for decades. As such, I think that it's probably logical to state that this area really needs much less 'protection' from androgens in the first place to stay healthy as it's clearly just nowhere near as affected by them, and I would wager as a result that using fin means that there is a decent chance that you won't be 'bound to lose the hair in any case' (as you suggest) if you do use it. It may well place someone under the androgenic threshold needed to affect the donor hair in the first place, who knows.

It's worth a shot. Even if I'm wrong, what if it helps you for decades and decades and then you only begin to start noticing the regression at that point, and it takes another few decades to fully lose it - you would at least be well into your older years at the time this happened and had very good hair for most of your life as a result.

I mean, I understand and respect rather not taking it when you see little point, just some food for thought instead of never even trying it out of fear when you're likely to be just fine and a person can always just stop if its not for them and then revert back to plan A and hope for the best if it comes to it.

Body hair effects are an interesting one, would be cool if there was some official data on this, but I'm not aware of any. I've heard lots of accounts of people saying it has affected theirs, and lots saying it hasn't. Personally, I'm moderately hairy (mostly chest) and have a very thick and full beard and have noticed no change at all to either.

I enjoy reading your posts on the forum, you always put in a considerable amount of thought into what you write, and I think you comprehend the topic of hair loss better than a lot of ‘professionals’ in the industry. 

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, Z-- said:

I appreciate the thoughtful response, even if we disagree! I recognize that donor hairs can thin over time, but they are already far more likely to be DHT resistant. The dip from NW6 to NW7 should be something an ethical doctor can predict through microscopic assessment of the donor hair and looking through family history, as the top of the donor region should certainly be looked at -- and those that have already landed at NW6 likely have plenty of signs of becoming a NW7. I am of the belief that one should always keep a reserve of donor in the event of future loss, whether that be in the form of body-hair or donor in side-banks or back, which I think achieves the concern. That said, I recognize your point and that Finn may have benefit for a NW6 or even NW7, who is at risk of further donor depletion.

Life is a matter of risk and rewards, though. The thing about Finn is that it's sides are so numerous, that the benefits you've mentioned (which I think can be achieved via proper donor management and planning), have to be counterbalanced. I recognize the majority don't get sides. I'd gotten heart palpations from minox (family history of a bad heart) alone, so I think I'm the type who is likely to suffer from sides generally. The possibility of sexual libido loss (for months if not years for some), weakening of body-hair (albeit only personal accounts), gyno and more difficulty in assessing prostate cancer risks, just don't make it worth it for me. I understand if you haven't had these problems, the assessment might argue in favor of Finn and that's totally great and I'm genuinely happy for you. FWIW, I'm not against it on principle for all cases, I just don't believe the risk is worth it in my case.

Besides, being on medication for life is exhausting and isn't spoken about enough. I'd done LASIK and besides the benefits of better of vision, one of the best perks is not having to deal with contacts day-in, day-out.

That makes sense, and I agree, there’s definitely a risk vs. rewards component, no one look at a Norwood 6 to 7 and thinks anything other than they’re both bald. 

[JDEE0]

2 hours ago, Z-- said:

I appreciate the thoughtful response, even if we disagree! I recognize that donor hairs can thin over time, but they are already far more likely to be DHT resistant. The dip from NW6 to NW7 should be something an ethical doctor can predict through microscopic assessment of the donor hair and looking through family history, as the top of the donor region should certainly be looked at -- and those that have already landed at NW6 likely have plenty of signs of becoming a NW7. I am of the belief that one should always keep a reserve of donor in the event of future loss, whether that be in the form of body-hair or donor in side-banks or back, which I think achieves the concern. That said, I recognize your point and that Finn may have benefit for a NW6 or even NW7, who is at risk of further donor depletion.

Life is a matter of risk and rewards, though. The thing about Finn is that it's sides are so numerous, that the benefits you've mentioned (which I think can be achieved via proper donor management and planning), have to be counterbalanced. I recognize the majority don't get sides. I'd gotten heart palpations from minox (family history of a bad heart) alone, so I think I'm the type who is likely to suffer from sides generally. The possibility of sexual libido loss (for months if not years for some), weakening of body-hair (albeit only personal accounts), gyno and more difficulty in assessing prostate cancer risks, just don't make it worth it for me. I understand if you haven't had these problems, the assessment might argue in favor of Finn and that's totally great and I'm genuinely happy for you. FWIW, I'm not against it on principle for all cases, I just don't believe the risk is worth it in my case.

Besides, being on medication for life is exhausting and isn't spoken about enough. I'd done LASIK and besides the benefits of better of vision, one of the best perks is not having to deal with contacts day-in, day-out.

Haha, no worries. For the record though, I don't particularly disagree as I say and actually am with you on your general point. I just don't know if someone who has their donor zone checked as a NW6 at 30 years old for example and it shows no signs at all of progressing to a NW7 will be the same story at 60 years old. I'm aware top clinics check this thoroughly and can predict pretty fairly accurately, I'm just not convinced that what they see will stay the same and hold true in the long term. I believe it was Dr. Wong (could be wrong, can't remember now) who essentially confirmed this in a live on here once and said that they get it right most of the time, but sometimes not, and 20 years down the line the patient has gone full on bald which they did not expect (and I assume did not plan for). 

Life is indeed a matter of risk vs reward, I'm with you there, but ironically, I think we just see different sides of the coin here as I see this applying oppositely in that the risks of fin are essentially negligible and the rewards are great, and as such the positives heavily outweigh the negatives. Similarly to you though, I'm certainly not for it in all cases or extremely 'pro-finasteride' or anything, and I fully agree side effects are a legitimate risk. I just don't particularly believe that it's anything more than a case of if they do happen, stop and you'll be absolutely fine, so why not at least find out and then all of this becomes a moot point at the end of the day if everything is fine.

Either way, I fully see your point and I get not wanting to take a drug for ever, even though fin gives me no issues at all, I would rather not take it, but in reality it's no issue and it's the best insurance policy against hair loss that we have. 

[JDEE0]

58 minutes ago, Curious25 said:

I enjoy reading your posts on the forum, you always put in a considerable amount of thought into what you write, and I think you comprehend the topic of hair loss better than a lot of ‘professionals’ in the industry. 

Thanks a lot man, that is nice of you to say - likewise - I also value your input to the forum and respect your input on posts. 

I'm no professional though, just a guy who ain't trying to go bald and who also digs into things way too much when I have a strong interest/incentive to do so! It's not something I would ever really talk about to anyone or even let anyone know how bothered I am by hair loss in real life, so I figure giving something back to others who are in a confused/anxious position regarding their own situation is a good thing to do.

Like most people these days, I rarely get to do things to help strangers/do some good deeds for no benefit of my own, so I guess this is just a way of maybe doing so. To most people, going bald is seen as a non-issue and were supposed to just accept it, but clearly we here know it's a big source of unhappiness for a lot of guys out there. Maybe some of the posts we write here as a group really do change some peoples lives for the better and put them on a path in which they'll ultimately have a much happier life!

[Gatsby]

I developed sexual side effects from oral finasteride (1mg a day) after about two or three months so I dropped the drug. This was early 2020. A month ago I started micro dosing on finasteride at 0.5mg on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. So far so good. If I develop sides again I will also cease taking it. I have a friend here in Melbourne who developed sexual side effects and clinical depression after being on finasterdie at 1mg a day a few years ago. He has been taking finasteride for over a year now at 0.5mg on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and has had no side effects at this dose.

[Mike Flaherty]

Strangely enough I never did develop sides from Fin. Yes, I gained weight but I chalked that up to not leading that active a lifestyle. I have never developed any sexual side effects at all. My libido has remained extremely high. I've even grown body hair in places I never had coming up on 16 months of daily Fin usage. I've been a bit depressed lately but I've had bouts of that since I was 15. I don't feel Fin is a cause there.

[JDEE0]

6 hours ago, Mike Flaherty said:

Strangely enough I never did develop sides from Fin. Yes, I gained weight but I chalked that up to not leading that active a lifestyle. I have never developed any sexual side effects at all. My libido has remained extremely high. I've even grown body hair in places I never had coming up on 16 months of daily Fin usage. I've been a bit depressed lately but I've had bouts of that since I was 15. I don't feel Fin is a cause there.

Not strange at all, side effects reported in pretty much all long term fin studies are in the lower single digit figure, so any given person generally has a very good chance of experiencing no adverse effects if we go by clinical data. It's been shown many times that there are no significant differences between the therapeutic dose and placebo dose in said studies, with the risk of discontinuation of treatment due to adverse reaction being similar between the two (placebo and real treatment).

Weight gain/loss at the end of the day is a matter of calories in, calories out. Neither Fin nor the vast majority of other pharmaceuticals in the world will have any effect on the laws of thermodynamics which govern the process of storing energy in the form of fat (weight gain), so you are indeed correct in your assumptions. As a side note, don't focus so much on the exercise part so much (although it is obviously advisable for cardiovascular health) but instead focus on counting your calories as best as you can and remain in a slight calorie deficit if you wanna drop some weight. 

 

 

 

[Melvin- Admin]

9 hours ago, Mike Flaherty said:

Strangely enough I never did develop sides from Fin. Yes, I gained weight but I chalked that up to not leading that active a lifestyle. I have never developed any sexual side effects at all. My libido has remained extremely high. I've even grown body hair in places I never had coming up on 16 months of daily Fin usage. I've been a bit depressed lately but I've had bouts of that since I was 15. I don't feel Fin is a cause there.

Not strange at all, people react differently to drugs. That’s why I recommend people try it if they haven’t, and I think micro-dosing to start would be the safest way to go about it.