FUE recommendation? Eugenix?

[inquisitivebald]

After research, I am looking at FUE in India, Europe or Turkey with one of the recommended surgeons here. I was looking at Eugenix but now the price has increased and I am starting to rule them out.

1. How many transplants a day do they do at Eugenix? Seems a lot of clinics in different cities? How many transplants are Dr Bansal and/or Sethi themselves doing a day?

2. It seems choosing a surgeon is important and stressed heavily here. Eugenix is having a number of people post results and so it seems people are going to them. However Eugenix are very ambigous about who is doing their procedure and the level of involvement by surgeons/techicians. What are people's experiences? How involved are Dr Sethi/Bansal?

3. Why the large increase in price this year? (almost 2x for top package) Dr Bhatti's price is reduced for Indian summer. Their current prices are almost on par with some European and US surgeons. I understand a small increase is necessary with rising costs every year. However The top plan has gone from Rs 120 to 210 in the space of days - hard not to leave a sour taste!

4. Hard to find negative reviews on Eugenix at the moment but their results here seem to be from last 1-2 years only. Dr Bhatti and others have been putting results out for 5+ years. What are peoples thoughts on this?

5. Is it possible to claim the GST back if visiting India for the transplant? I know UK you can claim VAT back if you are a tourist.

I am not trying to be critical on Eugenix - just want to put them through the ringer before ruling them out or considering their significantly raised costs now!

Very happy to hear suggestions of other surgeons or if you think Eugenix is worth it.

Thanks

[California]

4 minutes ago, inquisitivebald said:

After research, I am looking at FUE in India, Europe or Turkey with one of the recommended surgeons here. I was looking at Eugenix but now the price has increased and I am starting to rule them out.

1. How many transplants a day do they do at Eugenix? Seems a lot of clinics in different cities? How many transplants are Dr Bansal and/or Sethi themselves doing a day?

2. It seems choosing a surgeon is important and stressed heavily here. Eugenix is having a number of people post results and so it seems people are going to them. However Eugenix are very ambigous about who is doing their procedure and the level of involvement by surgeons/techicians. What are people's experiences? How involved are Dr Sethi/Bansal?

3. Why the large increase in price this year? (almost 2x for top package) Dr Bhatti's price is reduced for Indian summer. Their current prices are almost on par with some European and US surgeons. I understand a small increase is necessary with rising costs every year. However The top plan has gone from Rs 120 to 210 in the space of days - hard not to leave a sour taste!

4. Hard to find negative reviews on Eugenix at the moment but their results here seem to be from last 1-2 years only. Dr Bhatti and others have been putting results out for 5+ years. What are peoples thoughts on this?

5. Is it possible to claim the GST back if visiting India for the transplant? I know UK you can claim VAT back if you are a tourist.

I am not trying to be critical on Eugenix - just want to put them through the ringer before ruling them out or considering their significantly raised costs now!

Very happy to hear suggestions of other surgeons or if you think Eugenix is worth it.

Thanks

Hi Inquisitive,

I don't think that you can claim GST back (if visiting India) like you can in the UK. I am not a 100% sure on this but I have never heard of any visitor getting the GST back when leaving India.

You seem to be on the right track. I would highly encourage you to research as much as possible before selecting your HT Surgeon. This is one thing that you can't afford to mess up on. Cost is important but what sucks more is the loss of donor grafts (if results are not good). If you have any specific questions in regards to Darling Buds/Dr. Bhatti, please feel free to ask. I will do my best to answer your queries.

We wish you all the best.

Regards,

California

 

[inquisitivebald]

Thanks California. I emailed Dr Bhatti directly and am now considering him as my likely surgeon. I will let you know if  I have any questions.

Thanks.

[nordicwarrior]

@Abhinay Singh (Eugenix rep) might answer these questions best for you.

I have not had my transplant with them but there a few on this board who have just had their transplant and should be able to answer your questions.

 

@paddyirishman

@Zoomster

@Looking for HT

[bruce90]

lol what? Eugenix prices went from 120 to 210? Wow... I had finally decided that they would be my hair transplant clinic if I choose India and I was flying near India in February/March. I was basically less than a month away from booking a procedure with them but now I guess that rules them out... At those prices might as well go somewhere in Europe like sweden or belgium. By the time I fly to India it would cost me more than I would pay in Canada.

At more than double the price I think I would choose Bhatti. Eugenix is good but that price seems a bit steep to me...

Edited January 5, 2020 by bruce90

[inquisitivebald]

10 minutes ago, bruce90 said:

At more than double the price I think I would choose Bhatti. Eugenix is good but that price seems a bit steep to me...

Yes it's ridiculous. Such a steep increase in price just leaves a bad feeling about them (especially when you consider they do less than other surgeons in Europe and India who do full extractions/implantations themselves)

[Portugal25]

Don’t understand how anyone would consider Eugenix because not even the most expensive package assures the Dr will do the whole surgery and now costs almost 3€/graft with tax.

Dr. Pekiner has much better hairline results than Eugenix does the whole surgery and charges 2.15€/graft. 
Dr. Ximena Villa and Dr. Bruno Ferreira also have better results and charge 2.5€/graft.

[inquisitivebald]

I do not think Eugenix is very competitive anymore.

I just got a very bad feeling with the rise in price... like they have done their advertising on these forums, got some support from some members and now just looking to capitalise on these supports by raising their costs. Like I said all their cases and results are from within 1-2 years whereas Bhatti/others have a 5+ year track record on these forums.

Other surgeons seem more interested in their patients, doctors more involved in the procedure and I have even heard Dr Bhatti refunds for grafts when he has overquoted.

Edited January 5, 2020 by inquisitivebald

[California]

Hi Inquisitive,

Just an FYI

At Dr. Bhatti/Darling Buds India Clinic, we publish our pricing on our website. We try to make it as transparent as possible. No ambiguity,. No confusion. No surprises. No other branches. No other doctors. Just a “one doctor show”......Dr. Bhatti.

Here is the link:

https://darlingbuds.com/hair-transplant-cost-packages

Best regards,

California 

[Loadrunner]

Although the prices have increased but I blv the comprehensive package with Dr. Arika is still at rs. 120 where she will do the hairline, all slits and crucial part of extraction. I blv this can be considered by all ppl facing cost issues. I had booked just before the price increase otherwise would have gone for this option. She is equally sound as dr. Pradeep and the results should be similar may be @paddyirishman @ahmedabad_guy and others can verify this.

 

[inquisitivebald]

22 minutes ago, California said:

At Dr. Bhatti/Darling Buds India Clinic, we publish our pricing on our website. We try to make it as transparent as possible. No ambiguity,. No confusion. No surprises. No other branches. No other doctors. Just a “one doctor show”......Dr. Bhatti.

Thanks. I am looking at him and Dr Pekiner at the moment (Pekiner being closer to me)

16 minutes ago, Loadrunner said:

I blv this can be considered by all ppl facing cost issues. I had booked just before the price increase otherwise would have gone for this option.

Thing is there is so little involvement by the surgeons compared to the people Portugal25 mentions above.

One of the main messages on this forum is to find a doctor who does the procedure and has great results (with so much negativity put on technician run clinics). With Eugenix I feel we are handing over a lot of the work to unknown technicians (who knows who you will get on the day!) for extraction/implantation and still paying a premium similar to surgeons who do all the work themselves. When you factor in flights for someone from Europe, its cheaper, less travel and better results with the European surgeons.

[Portugal25]

Dr. Bhatti and Dr. Demirsoy have the same method, they make all the slits and all the holes stay open for hours drenching in blood while the technicians implant each graft into the open holes (Demirsoy does up to 4000 grafts per day so a lot of open holes).
Dr. Demirsoy charges 1.25€/graft and Dr. Bhatti charges 1.67US/graft with tax. Dr. Arika charges for 1.97US/graft with tax but I am not sure she only does 1 patient per day and the surgery description says she only does crucial slits so it looks like a tech run surgery. 

These are indeed the cheapest Doctors doing just 1 patient per day but I would never chose this kind of FUE method!

I would just save up and go with a Doctor doing the whole the surgery so that every slit that is open is immediately implanted with a graft by the Doctor with the help of techs (not the other way around).
These kind of Doctors don’t do more than 2000 grafts per day because it’s just not possible to do more when it’s Doctor doing the whole surgery. 

Dr. Bruno Ferreira and Dr. Ximena Villa both use the Lion Implanter Pen, this device basically opens the hole and implants the hair graft at the same time.

If FUE has evolved to Implanter Pens that eliminated the time the holes were open without grafts implanted I have to wonder why people are going to Doctors that still open all the holes for techs to implant? 

Maybe these people are unaware that this affects the graft survival rate and that’s the reason why these clinics need to take more grafts to do the same work that Doctors I mentioned before can do with much less grafts. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Portugal25

[elduterino]

Very good point.Now that I had 2 FUE and more experience, I would strongly suggest a place were they are experienced in using the LION implanter pen even if the techs are doing some of it, provided it is under the direct doc supervision all the time. 

This implanter is the best method to limit grafts damage and provide a good angle control, good density., as per independent study which I posted here before.

 

[paddyirishman]

Thanks @Loadrunner.   

The top package I choose recently  was 120 inr per graft. You can see from my thread what doctors involvement were.

This package is still available from my understanding with Dr. Arika. 

There is another option lower than 120 inr per graft.

If the prices have increased thats the one Dr.Serhi would be involved in.

If one is serious about their research and clinics and doctors involvments contact the clinic directly as @Loadrunner has done to find out what the options are and what you can afford.

All the best 

Paddy.

 

[Portugal25]

Dr. Kaan Pekiner is not yet using the Lion Implanter Pen he uses Stick&Place technique which means he opens the slit and places the graft manually.
He says this allows him to get a better feeling of the depth of the hole and the angle of the graft. 
I timed him and he took 10 seconds to open a hole and implant a graft which is more than with the Implanter Pen but nothing like the Neandertal age FUE surgery we are discussing here in which they open up to 4000 holes leaving them drenched in blood and then the techs come in to implant the grafts. 

Obviously this type of outdated surgery needs to priced much cheaper but Dr. Arika costs 1.97US/graft and Dr Kaan 2.15€/graft so I wonder why anyone would consider Dr. Arika. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Portugal25

[Fozzie]

1 hour ago, Portugal25 said:

but nothing like the Neandertal age FUE surgery we are discussing here in which they open up to 4000 holes leaving them drenched in blood and then the techs come in to implant the grafts. 

Obviously this type of outdated surgery needs to priced much cheaper but Dr. Arika costs 1.97US/graft and Dr Kaan 2.15€/graft so I wonder why anyone would consider Dr. Arika. 

I'm not convinced it is that cut and dried to be honest , especially when you get clinic's like H&W still using the 'Neandertal age' FUE and knocking out great results. Not to say there isn't positives in using implanter pens etc but again a lot of it really boils down to the skill level of the surgeon/techs involved with the method used imo.

[Portugal25]

H&W get awesome results from FUT (probably the best in the world) they are not on the same level for FUE (Spanish Doctors have them beat and they all use Lion Implanter Pens). 
Are you sure H&W open all the slits at once and only afterwards proceed with implanting all grafts instead of doing stick&place or direct hair implantation with implantor pens? 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Portugal25

[nordicwarrior]

6 hours ago, elduterino said:

This implanter is the best method to limit grafts damage and provide a good angle control, good density., as per independent study which I posted here before.

 

How is this different/compare to DHI by Eugenix? The slits are open pre-extraction, grafts extracted then implanted as harvested (that's my understanding)

[paddyirishman]

Yes @nordicwarrior what you said above is correct.

However it is the DHT method. Direct Hair Transplantation. 

......Paddy....

Edited January 5, 2020 by paddyirishman
Spelling

[Portugal25]

Direct Hair Transplantation uses a pen-like hollow needle, known as the Lion implantation pen. The pen combines the two stages. After loading the pen with grafted hair, it will then create channels and implant hair follicles by loading them as it makes the incisions.

The Spanish doctors made the Lion pen very famous but there others like the Choi Implantor Pen.

If Eugenix is opening all the holes before implanting the graft, then it’s not DHI or Stick&Place. 

[paddyirishman]

Yes @Portugal25 its not DHI or stick in place thats correct what you said above.

It's DHT. Direct Hair Transplantation. 

........Paddy.....

[Portugal25]

1 hour ago, paddyirishman said:

Yes @Portugal25 its not DHI or stick in place thats correct what you said above.

It's DHT. Direct Hair Transplantation. 

........Paddy.....

Direct Hair Transplantation and Direct Hair Implantation is the same. It means the Doctor implants each graft at the same time the channel is open because they are using a implantor Pen loaded with the graft that will make the puncture and implant the graft at the same time. 

If Eugenix is opening all the channels at once and only afterwards implanting all the grafts in one go then they are not providing DHT nor DHI. 

This is very serious because it would mean that Eugenix are making false claims on their website and therefore defrauding patients. 

I do hope this is not the cause and would ask @Melvin-Moderator to look into this. 

if they are indeed doing DHI/DHT then their price of 1,98US/graft starts making a bit more sense (if the whole surgery would actually be done by Dr. Arika). 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Portugal25

[paddyirishman]

@Portugal25  Eugenix are not making false claims about anything !  

They are showing very positive results of patients on this forum.

Patients are posting positive results on this forum, I had a HT recently myself with @Eugenix Hair Science and awaiting a result, along with others.

If anyone reads my thread and other threads etc they will see what patients really care about and that is results. This is the most important thing. 

Eugenix are recommended on this forum as @Melvin-Moderator will agree and also thousands more. Nobody has an issue.

Joe Tillman recommends Eugenix on his very strict criteria of recommended clinics.

Dr. Pradeep Sethi and Dr.Arika Bansal and supporting Doctors and team are highly respected and regarded  by their fellow members.

If you have a concern about  Eugenix or any clinics way of carrying out their business why don't you ask them directly ? 

As per your previous posts you seem to be very interested in DHT, DHT Stick in place and implanter pens etc etc. ?

 

...............Paddy.........

 

 

 

[Portugal25]

Paddy I am not arguing the quality of Eugenix results nor the ethics of their reputed Doctors I am simply trying to confirm the veracity of their claims regarding the technique that is used during surgery. 

Did they tell you you were having Direct Hair Transplantation?
If so, did they used a implator pen to open each hole and insert the graft at the same time the hole was opened? 
Just asking because this is DHT technique and if this is not the technique you had during your surgery then you didn’t have DHT. 

Your results and other Eugenix patient results can be the best in the world but a clinic can’t claim to be doing a technique and then fail to provide said technique to their patients.

I am interested because for the past 12 years since my first HT with Dr. Rahal I have been giving advice to a lot of friends in the same situation and I pride myself on giving informed advise.

Just last month 2 friends of mine went to Dr. Pekiner based on my advice and now I was telling another friend on a very tight budget that there could be a cheaper option in India with Eugenix with the same “Doc does everything” approach and the added bonus of DHT. Sadly, today I found the price is actually almost the same as Dr. Pekiner and now I find Eugenix might be falsely claiming to do DHT. 

Would really appreciate your input since you recently had surgery at Eugenix and could shed some light on the matter. 

As for your question regarding my comments on DHT, DHI, Implanter pens and other recent methods of FUE I can only say that I will continue to come to this forum to get information on these matters and share all the information I collect from talking with you and other members as well as the Doctors and patient advisors (hope that’s ok).

Edited January 5, 2020 by Portugal25

[paddyirishman]

@Portugal25 I have created a thread about my own HT yes, however you or anyone else is most welcome to read it .

Yes results are the most important aspect of a HT, thats how I feel and I'm sure many more feel the same, and I'm satisfied you feel that results are really important.

You are doing a great deed by helping your friends by recommending clinics and Doctors for them. So results are what they want to know about , and cost of the HT for their personal budget also how far to travel. 

I wish you the best on your research for your friends , whether it's DHI, DHT , Stick in Place , Implanted Pens , etc etc.

.......Paddy....