Are Hair Transplants an “Illusion” of density?

[gillenator]

I think most doctors will tell us that the highest degree of hair caliber is the most important factor in attaining the illusion of coverage.

[gillenator]

What the heck?!…😳

[yesplease]

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[gillenator]

I’ll second that!…👍

[Mystery411]

On 8/6/2020 at 12:19 AM, Leftwithrope said:

Hey @Melvin-Moderator,

I was looking at the article you posted on your website: 

https://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/what-does-the-illusion-of-density-mean-for-hair-transplants-/3275, 

and was wondering what exactly this '"layering and feathering" would look like. 

Would there happen to be any examples of layered/feathered hairstyles or unlayered/unfeathered ones just to illustrate your point?

I had my HT 2 years ago and wore a hair system the entire time it was growing in.

Just got rid of the system on Sunday and am sharing the photos of my pre-op, immediate post-op and current state.

My hair at this current moment is somewhere around a #3 or #4 cut, and I'm really hoping you could shed some light on what kind of hairstyles I should consider/avoid when it grows longer in the coming months. 

Regards,

Sean

P.S. I actually used DermMatch to darken the temple points and mid-scalp in the photo showing the current state of my hair. I must say DermMatch really blows Toppik out of the water with it being waterproof and also the amount of control it gives you over which parts of your scalp you want to thicken up. Also, I accidentally shaved a part of my eyebrow if anyone was wondering.

 

 

I didn’t know one can wear a hair system as the hair grows in. I would love info on how to do this (I wear a unit). 

[gillenator]

Some systems, especially ones that stifle the scalp from breathing, can negatively affect the regrowth of the grafts.

[gillenator]

Yes, only an in person examination will confirm all of the above.

[jluisro]

Hello everyone.

I am Spanish, but searching the internet I found this forum. I don't know if anyone can help me, but I've been thinking about getting a hair transplant for years. I have been looking for clinics in Turkey and I hesitate between two. Both seem professional and have references on the internet. I don't know if anyone, by any chance, will have references about them and can help me decide. Any help is welcome and I also accept alternatives.

Option 1 - Teknon is a Hair Surgical Institute  that enjoys great recognition in the medical hair field in the city of Barcelona.

Option 2 - This is the other hair transplant turkey agency called Trasplante Pelo (also Global Health).

As you can see, one operates in Spain and the other directly in Turkey. The first one is more expensive, but it is a recognized institution. The other one operates in Turkey and is cheaper, but also has good reviews.

I hope you can help me out of doubts, sorry if my English is not very good.

Thank you very much,

José Luís

[Curious25]

Not heard of either, but fang doesn’t necessarily mean they’re no good. 
 

A good starting point for you would be to check out the recommended clinics on here, and then read through patient testimonials for the clinics/surgeons you shortlist. 

[jluisro]

@Curious25 Thanks for your quick response, I'm going to look at the list!

José Luís

[gillenator]

I also never heard of either of them.

[trotsky__]

Newbie question that has probably been answered... Realistically, how close are we to a baldness cure ? Just a magic pill we would swallow and boom-badaboom, all the hair grow back ?

[gillenator]

Hair doesn’t help every walk of life.

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, trotsky__ said:

Newbie question that has probably been answered... Realistically, how close are we to a baldness cure ? Just a magic pill we would swallow and boom-badaboom, all the hair grow back ?

How close is Santa from bringing presents?

[JDEE0]

3 hours ago, trotsky__ said:

Newbie question that has probably been answered... Realistically, how close are we to a baldness cure ? Just a magic pill we would swallow and boom-badaboom, all the hair grow back ?

Yeah, that's never going to happen. For an all out 'cure' in that you wouldn't have to take anything or actively do anything to stave off baldness (similar to what you're suggesting in just taking a pill and solving the problem), it would take something like CRISPR or some other form of gene editing to physically change your DNA and modify the relevant genomes. All that stuff is way above my pay grade, but don't hold your breath for it as it's not an imminent technology, although it probably will be a reality at some point. Who knows if you'll be alive to witness it.

I do however think that we will likely have a number of options in the next 10+ years that are pretty much able to completely halt the progression of MPB for as long as we live, and hopefully with a very minimal side effect profile. Things like AR degraders that use the PROTAC route seem like they would achieve this (if they were deemed safe), which shouldn't be too far off if they pass clinical trials (which is a big if in general when it comes to hair loss treatments making it to market), and there are a number of other interesting potential treatments in the pipeline too. 

Again though, who knows when, for now it's best to use what is already at our disposal to keep what you have and then when something else more effective inevitably comes along, you'll be in a good position and maybe won't have to worry about the progression of MPB really much at all anymore.

[gillenator]

I agree, been hearing rumors about a cure for decades on end…one doctor told me that MPB could be cured through genetic manipulation but the medical community does not want to see that happen because there’s too much 💵 in treating hair loss!

But….”I don’t want to live like a refugee…don’t want to live like a refugeeeeeee!!!”

[Curious25]

I think as of today, if you are an 18 year old NW1 who is genetically programmed to reach NW7, there are enough things he can do to massively slow this down from becoming a reality, if not prevent it at all. 
 

A regime of daily dutasteride and oral minoxidil from the age of 18, could potentially keep his loss at bay for many years, which isn’t too far off your original question, of taking a pill and then being done with it . . apart from the fact it will be taking 2 pills daily, and hair loss needs not to have already occurred. 
 

Whether or not the patient could withstand the medications is a different question - which is potentially what you were also referring to? 

 

As for a bald NW7 taking a pill and growing it all back . . i think we are light years away from this happening. Unless you watch Dr Dan McGrath try and convince you he transformed a NW7 patient of his with some exosomes, when in reality, he let his hair grow out from a buzz cut, to a slightly longer length, giving the donor a healthier appearance, and the tuft of a forelock becoming more obvious with the increase in length 🙂

[gillenator]

Paaalease, a pill?…really?

Who in their right mind would take that?!

’Cause I will stand my ground,…and I won’t back down!……

[John1991]

On 3/12/2019 at 5:46 PM, hairlossPA said:

this guy gets it.

its understood that people can lose about half their hair before thinning is apparent to the normal bystander. If this roughly equates to 50grafts/cm2 compared to the normal teenage density of 100grafts/cm2, and many doctors implant at that level (some more some less), then I just dont agree with the illusion part of it all.

just my opinion...

Old thread, but it’s been shown that even in men without visible male pattern loss frontal hairline density ranges from the high 30s to the high 70s as far as grafts/cm2. The 100 grafts/cm2 figure just isn’t accurate - or close to it, even in the donor region density is lower than that. The average density in the frontal hairline for a grown man without hair loss is roughly 50 grafts/cm2, which is why when you see results where the hairline is packed in the 50-60 grafts/cm2 range they look very good.  It’s not an illusion, it’s just a great result. It may be the case that to achieve some reasonably good coverage half the density is required, but the crux of this thread was that hair transplants are - almost definitionally - an illusion. That’s not the case. 

Edited April 13, 2022 by John1991

[gillenator]

But you are basing your opinion on strictly density…when loss of hair shaft diameter (caliber) related to diffused loss progresses, that has a far higher visual impact in a thinning scalp even over loss of density.

[Chetman2112]

Picture of my current hairloss, my stylist creates illusion of density by cutting little layers of texture throughout my hair and than he thins out the thick areas everywhere else, my question is if I decide to go forward with a HT to restore my frontal area will I be able to wear my hair short? I actually like a buzz cut but want the option to also grow it longer and wear it forward. 

[gillenator]

It all depends on what your definition of short is, and of course your own hair characteristics.

[MOUHCINEHALLI]

Greetings,

Today, I'm going to talk about "the illusion of density," which is a crucial idea in hair transplant procedures. The average number of follicles per cm2 in a non-balding scalp or healthy donor region is between 60 and 100. Typically, the value falls between 70 and 85. Remember that when I say follicles, I mean single hair, two hair, three hair, or even four hair follicular units. Every person has a different number of each, but the average is roughly 2.5 hairs per follicle, with some having a larger number and some having a lower number. The conventional rule is that if hair thinning is visible in a particular area, the person has already lost half of their initial hair.

[gillenator]

The numbers you are quoting are really references to “FUs”, not individual hair follicles…so really, to offer a more accurate definition, a FU (follicular unit) is a natural occurring hair unit or hair grouping and the average is more like 2.2 follicles per FU…so, for example, if an individual has approximately 82 FU cm2, the math would equate to 180.4 hair shafts per cm2.

But too many times our discussion tends to always center on density numbers without the consideration of variances in hair shaft diameter between individuals…in fact, most doctors will agree that “it’s the degree of coarseness” (hair caliber) that is the most critical factor considered when attaining the “illusion” of coverage.

Bottom line, it’s not attempting to replicate a numeric level of density but rather to achieve the “illusion of coverage” irrespective of the numbers.

[NARMAK]

Until we somehow end up with an unlimited pool of donor grafts like Stemson are trying to work on, hair transplants will almost never be able to match the native hair density in most patients. That's why it's referred to as an "Illusion of density" and the 50% rule of thumb is used. 

Now, hypothetically if somehow Stemson manage to do what they've set out to do within the next decade or two, then only very select Norwood 2 or 3s could probably afford to have hair transplants where they try to bolster the hair transplant density to what was natively assumed to be there. 

Also, let's not forget that hair transplants are also prone with the risk, that going back and say taking a patient who is at Norwood 2, whose got a hair transplant and is now a "Norwood 1/Norwood 0" after their first hair transplant (in terms of hairline design at say a density of 50/cm2) with grafts trying to get to say like their native hair which is 80/cm2 with a 2nd hair transplant  risks permanent shock loss even in the hands of experienced doctors if the body doesn't react well to adding that extra density. 

That's not to say it has not been done, just that there's a reason why it doesn't happen very often. I'd wager less than 10% of people could probably even qualify to try.