Are Hair Transplants an “Illusion” of density?

[Al - Moderator]

I think too many people don't understand the size of the area to be covered. Frontal hair loss usually looks like a lot larger area to transplant than it actually is. If you have a 10cm wide x 7cm deep frontal area that is bald you will look like a bald man from the front, but that is only 70 square centimeters. Sure you can do several sessions to get 4550 grafts into that area and have 65 grafts per square cm and look like you have totally full density if you hair shafts are thick. The fact is though that you don't have any more hair on your head. You simply moved some from one area, decreasing the density there, to put it into another area and increase the density to that area. So, yes if you have a small enough area to cover you can possibly get what may be considered full density as long as your individual hair shafts are on the thicker side. If that's the case then consider yourself very lucky to only have a small area to cover.

 

[goodwally]

23 hours ago, Gasthoerer said:

1. Ever heard of glasshouse and stones? No there isn't. In this very forum there is maybe one case, which comes close (aftermath' case). Show me 5 cases in this forum were natural density is achieved. Not 5 cases which look like natural density (cause this is the illusion), but real natural density between 70-110 FUE/cm2. 

2. & 3. Fun fact, obviously you need the reading glasses, as I gave more than "every case is different": HGI, hair diameter, … do I really need to list it again cause your start barking before you finish to read the end of the paragraph?

1. Check out dr couto in spain. But of course you'll come up with excuses as usual.

2. Nah you actually need them with high magnification.

Edited January 18, 2020 by goodwally

[Gasthoerer]

Come on, do not embarrass yourself. No one laughed about this lame joke the first time. It is not getting better if you repeat it like a 12 year old. What is next: You tell me to use microscopes? 

I am here for years, and I tell you what: Every long term poster here knows Couto. It is not like you found a secret wizard. 

Even if you neglect the medical things like growth rate and risk of necrosis, and bring it down to simple math, it is clear: You have to create the same look with less = Illusion. Most people here have severe balding with a recipient well above 100 cm2. To achieve a 80 cm/2 density throughout, one would need >8000 FU. How many cases are here with > 8000 FU? And even if you would achieve natural density, you would have to deplete your donor by 40 to 50 %. The same illusion has to be achieved there. Natural look with 40-50 % less grafts/cm2.

P.S. I bet, not even Couto himself would claim he can achieve full natural density throughout. He is a master of his craft (no one doubts that), but also a master of showcasing his results. He is selecting only examples with great hair parameters, while using clever lightning, pseudo wet hair, and clever styling when combing though. 

 

[JayLDD]

1 hour ago, Gasthoerer said:

Come on, do not embarrass yourself. No one laughed about this lame joke the first time. It is not getting better if you repeat it like a 12 year old. What is next: You tell me to use microscopes? 

I am here for years, and I tell you what: Every long term poster here knows Couto. It is not like you found a secret wizard. 

Even if you neglect the medical things like growth rate and risk of necrosis, and bring it down to simple math, it is clear: You have to create the same look with less = Illusion. Most people here have severe balding with a recipient well above 100 cm2. To achieve a 80 cm/2 density throughout, one would need >8000 FU. How many cases are here with > 8000 FU? And even if you would achieve natural density, you would have to deplete your donor by 40 to 50 %. The same illusion has to be achieved there. Natural look with 40-50 % less grafts/cm2.

P.S. I bet, not even Couto himself would claim he can achieve full natural density throughout. He is a master of his craft (no one doubts that), but also a master of showcasing his results. He is selecting only examples with great hair parameters, while using clever lightning, pseudo wet hair, and clever styling when combing though. 

 

"pseudo wet hair"

This is underestimated and not well considered enough. In Couto's case (and I'm not bashing him as a surgeon) there is a conscious decision to mislead. The damp hair in his cases will show virtually no more information than dry hair and they clearly aren't stupid enough to not understand this. 90% of even top surgeons do similar things but inexperienced noobs like Wally (which is the vast majority of those who haven't had transplants) can't understand this sort of thing.

[JayLDD]

6 hours ago, goodwally said:

1. Check out dr couto in spain. But of course you'll come up with excuses as usual.

2. Nah you actually need them with high magnification.

Its physically impossible to achieve. Simply put, how the fuck do you expect that the top of the head which is of similar size to the donor to achieve density at the same level that the the donor is to begin with? Its common sense. You may as well be believing in magic. 

At best most people can get 40%ish on average of original density across the entire NW5 area if they've lost it to begin with. Hasson is the surgeon I've seen that is closest to achieving natural density, but even his density is going to be significantly lower than what is natural, and even if it is possible to get close in the hairline it is an impossibility across the whole scalp. The entire premise of hair transplants is that you are able to extract from a donor without making a significant negative cosmetic impact while transferring to the front, only an idiot can look at that situation and not understand that there is an illusion going on in comparison to nature.

Couto has many stunning results, but it should absolutely be considered that 95% of the results on his channel have incredible hair quality. Hugely above average. Even with 100% yields which many of his results appear to achieve they are significantly less dense than pre-hairloss. He's one of the best FUE surgeons in the world, but not a magician. 

[duchaine]

thecnically you can achieve only 50/60 grafts per sqcm while native UF are 100/sq cm
Anyway, consider that native hair in the front line are almost all singles while the trasnpalted hair are multiples.
So, the number of hair per sq cm can be the same, despite the fact that the number of FU is lower.

[goodwally]

On 1/18/2020 at 9:05 PM, Gasthoerer said:

Come on, do not embarrass yourself. No one laughed about this lame joke the first time. It is not getting better if you repeat it like a 12 year old. What is next: You tell me to use microscopes? 

I am here for years, and I tell you what: Every long term poster here knows Couto. It is not like you found a secret wizard. 

Even if you neglect the medical things like growth rate and risk of necrosis, and bring it down to simple math, it is clear: You have to create the same look with less = Illusion. Most people here have severe balding with a recipient well above 100 cm2. To achieve a 80 cm/2 density throughout, one would need >8000 FU. How many cases are here with > 8000 FU? And even if you would achieve natural density, you would have to deplete your donor by 40 to 50 %. The same illusion has to be achieved there. Natural look with 40-50 % less grafts/cm2.

P.S. I bet, not even Couto himself would claim he can achieve full natural density throughout. He is a master of his craft (no one doubts that), but also a master of showcasing his results. He is selecting only examples with great hair parameters, while using clever lightning, pseudo wet hair, and clever styling when combing though. 

 

Dude youre overreaching and getting angry af. Its not that serious if youre wrong. Take a water break you need it.

[goodwally]

On 1/18/2020 at 10:40 PM, JayLDD said:

"Couto has many stunning results, but it should absolutely be considered that 95% of the results on his channel have incredible hair quality."

"Couto has many stunning results, but it should absolutely be considered that 95% of the results on his channel have incredible hair quality."

Hahaha... righhht. Like you know other drs with the same stunning results. Of course obtuse and uneducated guys like jayldd dont know hair while stuck with shitty transplants. Lets all look at your hair result. Who was your dr again? Erdogan?? Bahahaha.

Edited January 21, 2020 by goodwally

[JayLDD]

16 hours ago, goodwally said:

"Couto has many stunning results, but it should absolutely be considered that 95% of the results on his channel have incredible hair quality."

Hahaha... righhht. Like you know other drs with the same stunning results. Of course obtuse and uneducated guys like jayldd dont know hair while stuck with shitty transplants. Lets all look at your hair result. Who was your dr again? Erdogan?? Bahahaha.

Right, lets look at my result then:

 

 

 

The reality is there isn't a single person on the forum or on the planet with my previous hair situation who wouldn't be happy with these results. To add to that, Erdogan has and continues to have among the most impressive high norwood results on this and the international forum. Certainly the most impressive of FUE. You're obsessing over Couto purely off the basis of Youtube videos, I doubt you've seen a single patient posted result from him. You literally were praising an Erdogan result as "One of the best jobs I've ever seen." a few days ago. 

"Of course obtuse and uneducated guys like jayldd dont know hair while stuck with shitty transplants."

You know as well as I do that this comment is false so why say it? I've had multiple transplants, I've seen multiple people with transplants in person including people who had previously been to American and Canadian clinics at ASMED and I've been on this forum for longer than you have and engaged more significantly. Same situation with Gas and same situation with Melvin who has been here for years and years. You've never had surgery, the current state of your hair is terrible and you're jerking over a surgeon who again, I am 99% sure you've never seen a patient posted result from. You refuse to understand that it is impossible to achieve natural density on the top of the head by taking from a donor with less hair than ever originally existed on top. Its the equivalent of a child believing in magic.

I feel bad for you in a way because its clear your own hair situation is terrible and you're looking for a magic bullet so badly you've decided wizardry is a real thing. Wake up and stop acting like a child.

"Dude youre overreaching and getting angry af. Its not that serious if youre wrong. Take a water break you need it"

Proof you're deluded? I strongly recommend you read and reflect on this comment you wrote, specifically how hypocritical it is and the projection involved in case you're beyond figuring that out.

 

[gillenator]

Guys an extremely high percent of doctors and clinics use their best possible patient photos to present to online hair loss communities, their respective web-sites, really anywhere they can to preview and promote their work and results...I mean, who would not do that right?

But also keep in mind some of the beneficial side of things for patients in need of dire repair who need some concrete examples of other repair cases similar to theirs...and the more examples they can retrieve, the better...let's not forget about them!😄

[Gasthoerer]

17 hours ago, goodwally said:

Dude youre overreaching and getting angry af. Its not that serious if youre wrong. Take a water break you need it.

 

17 hours ago, goodwally said:

Hahaha... righhht. Like you know other drs with the same stunning results. Of course obtuse and uneducated guys like jayldd dont know hair while stuck with shitty transplants. Lets all look at your hair result. Who was your dr again? Erdogan?? Bahahaha.

Very convincing and classy arguments. 

@JayLDD, you results looks great! Actually, it gives the illusion of natural density 😉

Edited January 21, 2020 by Gasthoerer

[gillenator]

let's get back on track with this thread!

[Melvin- Admin]

I think a new video is in order, because obviously this message is falling on deaf ears.

[goodwally]

4 hours ago, JayLDD said:

Right, lets look at my result then:

Proof you're deluded? I strongly recommend you read and reflect on this comment you wrote, specifically how hypocritical it is and the projection involved in case you're beyond figuring that out.

 

Right, lets compare with couto........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8InNNu-N_oI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Hq-WHqkofk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rizqgsw3wPA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c598day9EpA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibKuHbVhIcI

Heres video proof of 5 diff cases.. not pics like you posted. Read em and weep. Youre channeling now.. pent up anger from jealousy. In other words youre triggered. Dont you wish couto treated you. Lmao

Edited January 22, 2020 by goodwally

[goodwally]

49 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I think a new video is in order, because obviously this message is falling on deaf ears.

Exactly! I provided the videos just now, thanks. He's triggered. I'll give him a water break.. lol

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, goodwally said:

Exactly! I provided the videos just now, thanks. He's triggered. I'll give him a water break.. lol

The video would be for you, because you are painfully unaware of the realities of hair transplantation. @Gasthoerer is actually right. 

[Mick50]

Anyone who has had a transplant knows to varying degrees they are an illusion of density and not native density. Possibly someone who is just getting a small area at the front addressed transplanted the illusion will be pretty close to native density but for anyone with a NW 3 and above  it just aint happening ,it's all about the illusion.  I had a transplant 5 years ago 4200 Fue no one would guess from my hair that it is transplanted hair and of course 4200 will only give so much cover to someone who was a  NW 5//6 as I had good sides that would put me  as a NW5   but my crown loss a NW6. Ultimately anyone who opts for a transplant has to realise it will be  massive improvement if it is done properly but will not be native density

 

[hairlossPA]

@goodwally can you not see how in your first video you posted, how 3200 grafts to cover that area could never be natural density? lmao you’re fucking delusional old man. also look how dark the video is compared to the pre-op pics lol. this is the type of guy to buy informercial products 

[goodwally]

16 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

The video would be for you, because you are painfully unaware of the realities of hair transplantation. @Gasthoerer is actually right. 

Those videos were meant for you since youre in denial of the great results many of you wished you had. Who was your dr again? Mind if we compare your results with couto's?

Edited January 22, 2020 by goodwally

[goodwally]

8 hours ago, hairlossPA said:

@goodwally can you not see how in your first video you posted, how 3200 grafts to cover that area could never be natural density? lmao you’re fucking delusional old man. also look how dark the video is compared to the pre-op pics lol. this is the type of guy to buy informercial products 

Are you that blind to see how good the results were from the video, and how I posted 4 more? Hahaha.. youre a jealous baldie. Didnt you say the following in your profile?

>> "Describe Your Hair Loss Pattern: Thinning Hair Loss All over the Scalp"

Not our fault youre too bald to attract any women.... Hahahahaahaaaaaa

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by goodwally

[Melvin- Admin]

12 minutes ago, goodwally said:

Are you that blind to see how good the results were from the video, and how I posted 4 more? Hahaha.. youre a jealous baldie. Didnt you say the following in your profile?

>> "Describe Your Hair Loss Pattern: Thinning Hair Loss All over the Scalp"

Not our fault youre too bald to attract any women.... Hahahahaahaaaaaa

 

Are you just trolling? I suggest you behave civil if you want to remain part of this community. If your willing to buy the hype, that is your problem, not ours. But I will not have you behaving like a troll. 

[1978matt]

There are just 50, give or take, Couto results on youtube (over a 6 year period), 300 Instagram posts but many are recycled results 3 or 4 times over, and many the same as the ones on youtube.  Kind of suggests these are only the best ones.

Exceptional hair donor qualities and soft lighting enhance the illusion.  Most also wear their hair a couple of inches or longer for a layering effect.

...and here are two similar recent examples below, just as good and from different doctors.  It's all about the donor and area covered.

 

 

 

Edited January 22, 2020 by 1978matt

[LonelyGraft]

1 hour ago, goodwally said:

Are you that blind to see how good the results were from the video, and how I posted 4 more? Hahaha.. youre a jealous baldie. Didnt you say the following in your profile?

>> "Describe Your Hair Loss Pattern: Thinning Hair Loss All over the Scalp"

Not our fault youre too bald to attract any women.... Hahahahaahaaaaaa

 

Wtf is wrong with u? Why r u so bitter? A few weeks back u were talking about being ok with accepting cancer since you lived such a harsh life. If this is true, I highly suggest you seek professional help.

 

wish you the best

[Mycroft]

Couto's geographical location does mean that the bulk of the patients he sees are going to have those nice Spaniard hair characteristics, and those go a long way. It's generally more indicative of a doctor's ability to see what they're able to do for patients with less than ideal hair characteristics.

[hairlossPA]

@goodwally if you saw my results from fin you’d see different.

no one has said those results are bad lol. you’re mixing 2 things up.. natural density and great results which are illusions...

good luck with your hair restoration 

Edited January 22, 2020 by hairlossPA